Honda 350x ATC metal in oil filter

[arlaunch]

Hi Y'all,

I decided to change the oil and filter out of a 350x i purchased around 1 year ago. It has been fired up several times and taken around my back pasture with maybe an hour or 1.5 hours of ride time since i bought it.

I forgot to ask the guy i bought it from if the bottom end of the engine was rebuilt or not. It has definitely been taken apart and powder coated though.

Anyway he did a frame off restoration to the machine and it is really nice.

While changing the oil filter i noticed little pieces of metal in the crevices of the filter.... the metal mostly dust or very small shavings. I am not sure if this is the 1st oil change the machine has ever had?

My plan is to fire it up today and ride it around. Then flush the oil and post the results. It may be a weeks time until i can do that.

Is it possible this could be from a new clutch? Or anything else that could be considered normal for new engine break in?

Thanks,

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/Filter%202_zpsqap7ushk.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/Filter%202_zpsqap7ushk.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/Filter%203_zpsjzeoeuxf.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/Filter%203_zpsjzeoeuxf.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/Engine%20pic_zpszlebwl05.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/Engine%20pic_zpszlebwl05.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/Filter%201_zpshgyfezwe.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/Filter%201_zpshgyfezwe.jpg.html)

[Tecate performance]

Is it magnetic? If not, be wary of the crank on an unknown rebuild. The thrust washers wear out over time and or when run with dirty oil, then they start showing up in the filter. I've seen them get spit out when they get real thin, then it's only a matter of time before the big end of the rod breaks or the bearing comes apart with that much side clearance. Then when it goes the cases break. I've seen quite a few like that. I've rebuilt a 350 crank that had good side clearance, but when I got it apart I found the bearing cage cracked. So you just never know with these old cranks. I think you can still get some factory Honda rods and bearings/pins, if not Vesrah makes a kit that's pretty good.

[arlaunch]

Unfortunately i can't tell if it is magnetic or not.

The dust and tiny chips are covered with oil and stick to about anything you touch it to.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/Filter%20Material_zpscrxrfpvz.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/Filter%20Material_zpscrxrfpvz.jpg.html)

[Marty]

ride bike and change oil a few more times obviously if there is still shaving coming wrong or loss in performance something definitely wrong

[Dirtcrasher]

I'd certainly take a peek at the cam and journals, Adjust the valves while your in there.

It could be as simple as something rubbing on the cases etc etc, forgetting thrust washers or improper assembling parts could be causing that as well....

[barnett468]

.


Unfortunately i can't tell if it is magnetic or not. The dust and tiny chips are covered with oil and stick to about anything you touch it to.

Easy deal, just borrow the ol lady's FINE mesh strainer....or buy one from the food store or online . . A coarse strainer will not work.

Place the strainer on top of one of her small pans....or get a plastic container from the paint department of a hardware store.

Fill the container with LACQUER thinner until the thinner covers at least 1/2 of the strainer screen . . Paint thinner can leave a sticky film and acetone will instantly evaporate.

Grab a piece of filter with a pair of pliers and dip in the strainer several times.

Some of the metal will fall off of the paper.

Do this with the other pieces of filter until you have enough metal to test.


It looks like aluminum to me . . Could be the cam chain hitting the engine or the clutch basket.

You can buy a magnetic drain plug which will help keep steel out of the oil.


See several strainers here.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fine+strainer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

...................................https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=JN.4YsDJ/m2IbOLrqzT%2bGi/VQ&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

[arlaunch]

Well,

After all these winter months of putting this off. I got the X out and was prepping it for the dunes this weekend.

Time had erased my fears about engine problems. I put a new chain on it and changed the brake fluid and bled the brakes. Filled it up with a couple of cheap quarts of 10/40 installed a new oil filter and started the test driving. 1st thing i noticed is it runs fantastically fantastic. Purrs at idle, and pulls hard through all gears. Shifts like a dream.

After 30 minutes or so of goofing off in the neighborhood i drained the oil and pulled the filter.



FU&(%$?
S%$@T
Son of a *!@Tch

More metal than before.

My diagnosis says it is eating it self at an increasing rate.

The guy i bought the ATC from powder coated the whole engine!

I thought he took it apart first? I texted him and he said he did not take it apart....

My guess is the the seals are all toast and the crank is now shot?

My baby has cancer..... This sucks!

Stay tuned....

I am so bummed somebody (a powder coater), would stick a fully assembled engine in the oven at over 400F.230580230581230582

[oscarmayer]

time to split the cases and replace the bearings, with that much metal I would not want to run the engine. I would be worried shavings evne if alloy got into the bearings and trashed them as well as other stuff. what about the oil pump? if it is scared from metal it is trash. need to get a 300EX and use the pump but reuse your gear from the 350x.

[arlaunch]

This project got kicked down to the bottom of the list.

Just yesterday i got around to removing the engine and removing the clutch cover. Here is what i found.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/IMG_7749_zpsyozpevv7.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/IMG_7749_zpsyozpevv7.jpg.html)

I can't see any damage on any of the viewable gears.

Thank you for the advice on the 300ex oil pump. I see i can get a new one from Honda for around $100.

As time permits i will pull this motor apart and fix the problem and then replace all bearings, seals, gaskets and O'rings. Also i will remove the powder coat from the cylinder head and send the kit to Megacycle.

[barnett468]

.
See if it is steel or aluminum as was suggested.

Are the pieces on the wood from the engine also?

Irregardless, that is a lot of metal and the shavings are big, so I would also start taking things apart as was also suggested . If it is aluminum I would start by looking at the cam chain area to see if the chain is hitting something.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR

[RubberSalt]

I'm guessing aluminum, the steel would likely break or be finer particles.

If it's aluminum, theres how many parts it could be? piston, clutch basket, case, head?

Did it drop a skirt and get ground up?

get a magnetic pick up tool, they have neodymium magnets on them typically. Doesn't matter how small the particle is, it will stick if it's steel/iron.

[arlaunch]

It is non magnetic.

This will turn out to be a 350X engine rebuild thread as time passes.

Thanks for everybody's help. I will ask questions when i need help.

[Rob Canadian]

It is non magnetic.

This will turn out to be a 350X engine rebuild thread as time passes.

Thanks for everybody's help. I will ask questions when i need help.

That sucks. I was just reading this thread... Hope most of the internals are still in good shape.

[Dirtcrasher]

It looks like aluminum to me. And some of that stuff looks like my lathe turning down a piece of aluminum.

Backwards oil filter from prior owner may have ate the cam journals??

One problem that may arise; You don't know whats been done to the motor; Was it ever all torn down??

So assembly will have to be done by the book. Lots of thrust washers in there and they get stuck to whatever they are protecting.

A thrust washes omitted from the clutch may allow aluminum contact and it may be a simple problem.....

[arlaunch]

I just noticed last night that the back side of the larger chip has threads.

This is a big ole bummer IMO. I tried to start the investigation by pulling the cylinder head off. Unfortunately i am still stuck in that step because i can't get a bolt removed and it is on its way to stripping. I will take it to the machine shop and see if they can undo the bolt.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/IMG_7752_zps5admiuo2.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/IMG_7752_zps5admiuo2.jpg.html)

Each bolt in addition to theoretically never being removed has a cover of black powder coat over it aiding in making extraction even more difficult.

The stuck bolt is the one directly overhead the spark plug. I heated the living trail pro out of it a few times. Then banged on it with a large punch.

No luck .

I have a feeling i would have had better luck getting this thing out if the motor was in the frame.

[arlaunch]

So i went down to the machine shop this morning to have the nice fella's help me remove that PITA cylinder head bolt just above the spark plug.

It took a little bit of welding and and some grunting but we got the bolt out.

Everything up top looks good. I will dig deeper here soon.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/IMG_7768_zpspwhgi9dm.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/IMG_7768_zpspwhgi9dm.jpg.html)

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag213/pnwgf/IMG_7769_zpsbvjxta7z.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/pnwgf/media/IMG_7769_zpsbvjxta7z.jpg.html)

[RubberSalt]

This engine isn't suffering from cancer. It has s fleshing eating bacteria.

[barnett468]

.
Looks like it took some of the thread with it . You might consider putting a helicoil in that hole.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR