How it's Done

[John Tice]

How it’s Done

I don’t know if this is the correct place for this thread but here it goes
Cylinder honing 101

Billy & I have been doing a Machine shop thread in E2S for a few years now. I’m retired now but am still keeping Small Engine Machine Works & N. W. Sleeve alive with the active domain names for both companies.
www.nwsleeve.com & www.smallenginemachineworks.com have been turning specialty cylinder sleeves since 1971. Nowadays we only do full line custom cylinder boring & sleeving, 1 at a time. “No Plating”
Enjoy the thread & get involved

The object for the thread (How it’s Done) is to educate & encourage people to become involved in the machine shop business. Every couple of weeks or so there will be a new entry showing & explaining how cycle & small engine machine work is properly done. Everyone’s input will be invited for questions & answers.

Cylinder Honing 101 will be the first thread in “How it’s Done” for 3Wheeler.
Now days times are turning around again; plated cylinders are wearing out all over the place. With PMI inc. leading the way with an assortment of various brands of pistons. Performance Motorsports International is the parent company for Wiesco (My favorite) J.E. & Pro-X lines of pistons.

With cylinder sleeves available for almost any engine; it’s important for the enthusiast to have a basic knowledge of the applications & tools used for installing & maintaining a cylinder with an IRON liner.
Cylinder sleeves are NOT made from STEEL. :crazy: It was pointed out in E2S that there are steel cylinders, mostly in the aircraft industry. Lets not get off on a tangent.

One of the simplest tools used in cylinder maintenance is the hone. Within this there is Glaze breaking & there is genuine cylinder honing. Glaze breaking is what it says & really has nothing to do with honing.
When you pull the top end for a new set of rings, you will be putting a cross hatch in the bore to aid in the new ring break in.
Over the years one of the most popular tools is a brake cylinder hone. I call this tool an “Egg Beater”. The egg beater has just about ZERO ability to do any sizing. They are also extremely good at snagging up in the bottoms of 2 stroke cylinders. They will however put a cross hatch in a 4 stroke bore.

The next & one of the oldest types of tool is a Ball Hone. Ball hones are very good in 2 strokes because they are also useful in champhering 2 stroke ports.

The third one which is my favorite is a brush hone. The beauty of the brush hone is as it wears down it can be used on smaller bores. After the shop has finished a bore; the ball & brush hones are also handy for removing the razor sharp edge at the top of the cylinder.

All of the above are capable of laying a good 45deg. cross hatch. The real reason for a cross hatch while precision honing; This pattern while stroking the hone guarantees uniform stone contact from end to end which produces precision bore dimensions. Aiding in a good ring break in is an added bonus.
Before you run your cylinder over to the shop to fit your new shiny $150.00 piston; Make sure that you know the qualifications of the guy who’s going to do your work.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/082f2646-cb74-4be1-ad51-ed58b2089854.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/082f2646-cb74-4be1-ad51-ed58b2089854.jpg.html)
Left Ball hone --- Center precision AMCO cylinder hone --- Right a brake cylinder hone
Of the three, only the AMCO hone is capable of precision cylinder sizing.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5230140.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5230140.jpg.html)
A good set of brush hones; although rather expensive, they last & last



http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P2130554.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P2130554.jpg.html)
The 1500 Lisle cylinder hone
The Lisle hone is best used on 4 stroke cylinders. The stones on this brand are lightly glued in place & have a tendency to snag & break off in 2 strokes.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5230142.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5230142.jpg.html)
Ask any builder in any trade; The Sunnen hone is the Best. Quality tools have a cost; my first used hand Sunnen hone cost me $165.00. We recently purchased a heavy duty model for over $500.00. You don’t find this kind of quality tool at HF. If you need a quality Sunnen supplier; try www.cavcosales.com . CAVCO has been my faithful Sunnen tool place for years; take a look at their web site.

That about covers the hand held cylinder hones; the next step is accumulating a good set of measuring tools.

If you are serious about your work; a good set of quality measuring tools is a must. Some folks will only purchase the best off the Snap On truck. Times have changed with the internet; quality tools are available from the internet on line. After a purchase it’s determined that the tool isn’t good enough; chuck it & find another. As with any retail trade, we tend to favor the supplier who offers the best service, quality & on time. After a while, we learn who we wish to do business with. You will notice that I didn’t use the word CHEAP. I made the statement over at E2S; “You get what you pay for”. You wouldn’t believe the fire storm of comments that showed up.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image-135.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image-135.jpg.html)

Operating your hone is easy to learn if you spend some time watching on Utube. There are plenty of examples, good & bad so you need to sort them out


For the pro along comes the power hone; again the Sunnen connecting rod hone is the best first choice.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5210128.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5210128.jpg.html)

With hand honing with the electric drill the cylinder is held down in some fashion; With this power hone it’s a hands on grab it & go situation. Many an operator has slashed a finger or two as the mandrel grabs & the cylinder spins.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P1210342-Copy-1.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P1210342-Copy-1.jpg.html) http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Rod%20Hone/IMG_0216.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Rod%20Hone/IMG_0216.jpg.html)
This is a 125 cylinder & 175 Blaster which are mounted on a 3 point long stone mandrels. With this mandrel arraignment the cylinder is honed Round & Straight. This is the only hone set up which guarantees straight cylinder sizing.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P6040161.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P6040161.jpg.html)


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/002.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/002.jpg.html)
If you’ve been around a Sunnen, you’re familiar of how they work. Any shop that’s been using this machine will have more invested in the tooling than the machine is worth.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0315.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0315.jpg.html)
This is a view of a 700 Suzuki with a 102mm bore, the largest we’ve seen yet in our shop. Notice the double stone set on this mandrel; this particular stone set is designed for sizing bores which are splined. The mandrel is excellent for honing large bore 2 stroke cylinders.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/securedownload1.jpg (httpwonderfull s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/securedownload1.jpg.html) http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image-20.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image-20.jpg.html)
A Sunnen power stroker which we had in our old location

Lastly in our shop is a vertical power stroker hone. It’s taken me around 6 months to get this machine up & running.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202015/IMG_3053.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202015/IMG_3053.jpg.html)
This is me after 50 years in the shop. This is a wonderful machine; as Clint says, “we must realize our limitations”. The machine is only as good as the head which is fitted.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0211.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0211.jpg.html)
As usual I fit a Sunnen hone head to the vertical machine; Quicker & much faster adjustments

This machine runs from 25mm – 120mm bore diameter
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0212.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0212.jpg.html) http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0314.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0314.jpg.html)
Honda 50 Suzuki 700 Quad



Any questions, we all learn together. This is the first “How it’s Done” for the 3 wheeler. If any of you folks have an idea of a machine shop project, let us know. If you are also a machinist of wannabe with a project, post it & share it with the rest of the readers. We all learn together.

Stay tuned

My experience has only come from a high school education, our shop & the family business. Anyone can be successful at small business if; you are willing to Bust Your Ass for a lifetime. I know; I’m 67 & plan on working till I drop.

John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
Call me most any time

:beer

[John Tice]

Suzuki 700 Quad The Big One

You folks with those plated cylinders which never wear out; This week’s thread is for you to read & learn. Plated cylinders over time do wear out; for many years we have been watching this situation. Some may disagree with our opinion which is; with a good assortment of available over sized pistons, a sleeved cylinder is as good as or better than a plated cylinder.

Before we get into the 700 Quad; I’d like to say that www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com are one in the same ;)
We no longer manufacture production sleeves as NWS has been popular for. Our specialty is & will be the one off custom installations which are unavailable elsewhere.

After all of these years the plated cylinders are starting to wear out. It would seem as though they are coming in faster to us as they are starting to go. We do as much 4 stroke liner replacement as the 2 stroke machines. I’ll throw in one or the other as the interesting jobs come in.

Last month we got one of the big ones; Suzuki 700 Quad, 102mm of Grunt. For you folks without a calculator, 102mm is a shade over a 4” diameter bore. This cylinder for a small engine is a Biggie.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0289.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0289.jpg.html)
The seize marks can be seen in the bore

The first step in the sleeving process is removing the plating. As etching a 2 stroke cylinder; the jug goes into the acid bath for around ½ hour
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Album-2/P8160371.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Album-2/P8160371.jpg.html)
The cylinder bubbles away as the plating dissolves.

This method is far & away more efficient than attempting to remove the plating on the lathe or a boring bar.

I bought a canned sleeve 1/8” thick from a local NAPA store. Using an automotive sleeve is far more efficient chomping away on one of our thick 2 stroke castings.
The cycle shops with those bench top cylinder boring machines are in for quite a struggle. I purchased a model FN Kwik Way machine from a Harley shop which went out of business. The model FN is a large Robust piece of equipment; the size range goes from 2 ¾” – 5” bore diameters.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202015/P1011541.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202015/P1011541.jpg.html)
Kwik-Way model FN

The first challenge for us was mounting a 102mm bore cylinder on a stand with a 3” slot. The cylinder clamped up OK but the top of the bore is a different storey. I needed to use a couple of our spacer bars so the tool holder would clear the table as it rotates around.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0293.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0293.jpg.html)
Clamping this large cylinder is the same as clamping smaller ones with the use of the spacer bars.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0292.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0292.jpg.html)
Those of you who are familiar with the smaller Kwik Way machines may notice how much heavier this machine is.

The next step is to study the cylinder & decide how to get the job done. With 2 stroke cylinders we usually machine up a flanged sleeve so the liner is held in place from the top. With 4 stroke cylinders, my procedure is to bore to a step at the cylinder bottom. The cylinder is held in place with a light squeeze from the top. Our sleeve installations are usually fit tight enough & the flange or step is a double assurance that everything is tightly held in place.

With the plating removed boring the cylinder to size is an easy operation. In a 4 stroke cylinder I usually install a 1/16” thick sleeve. This allows for up to a +.040” oversize bore. The thickness of the sleeve installed depends on the diameter of the base of the cylinder which fits into the crankcase. The piston over sizes also has something to do with the project. Wiesco my favorite doesn’t make a piston for this particular cylinder; neither doe’s any of the other PMI brands make a piston. PMI Inc. owns Wiesco, PE & Pro-x piston brands.

The last bore for the new sleeve is a very light oiled pass which is very smooth. At this point we double check the bore diameter & turn the sleeve to have a +.004” press fit.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0294.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0294.jpg.html)

The cylinder is heated to 500deg., Before we drop in the new liner. We most always use the 500deg. Heat temp for our base line temp.

After the new sleeve is installed; we put a tight press fit for bedding the new liner.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0298.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0298.jpg.html)

On to the vertical hone for finish sizing; I bored the dimension around .010” small so we can adjust the new vertical hone for a straight fit.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0311.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0311.jpg.html)
The hone is fit with a Large Sunnen hone head which is easily adjustable. Unfortunately our vertical hone does not lay a true 45deg. Cross hatch pattern.

The final skirt clearance & cross hatching is honed with our Sunnen connecting rod machine
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0315.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0315.jpg.html)

I gave the finish fit a loose +0025” clearance.
There is a lot of hype stating that the plated cylinders dissipate heat better than a sleeved cylinder. My rebuttal question is; Why does the Wiesco piston use the same skirt clearance, whether plated of iron lined???

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0317.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/700%20Quad%20Suzuki/IMG_0317.jpg.html)

Stay Tuned
JT www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning custom cylinder sleeves since 1971 Your full service cylinder repair shop.
We return them Round & Straight Any Questions? Call most any time until 9PM Pacific 503-593-2908
:beer:

[John Tice]

Sleeving KX500
This is a typical stuck KX500 cylinder

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2100011.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2100011.jpg.html)
Since we are unaware of the history of the cylinder, it’s difficult to determine why this happened.
The cylinder has a canned pre-ported sleeve installed in it. My suspicion is that the sleeve was improperly installed. (The sleeve was more than likely fit too loose which caused bad heat dissipation)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2100010.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2100010.jpg.html)
The cylinder also has a crack between a couple of the exhaust ports.
It’s customary to remove the stuck sleeve & measure the fit. A sleeve with this large bore diameter will customarily have a +.005” press fit. This sleeve was really stuck & needed to be removed with a boring bar.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2110016.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2110016.jpg.html)
Cylinder is counter bored for the new sleeve flange; This time the lathe was used.

Cylinder has been bored for the new sleeve. You can see some skid marks in the freshly cut bore which needs to be honed straight & round.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2110019.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2110019.jpg.html)


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image.jpg.html)
Most every time; Centrifugally or Green sand, we start from scratch every job.

I’d suspect that the reason the cylinder first stuck is because the sleeve had an improper fit. The average cycle shop may have a cylinder boring machine but not the proper honing equipment required to get the proper just rite fit.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2110020.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2110020.jpg.html)


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/PB110394.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/PB110394.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5130102.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5130102.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P6240229.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P6240229.jpg.html)
As necessary; cylinder tops & bottoms are mounted & mandrel turned for best accuracy


Sleeves cut in the Early Days (circa 1976)
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/f4b67065-7b37-4bf0-ba69-5cc0a107e684.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/f4b67065-7b37-4bf0-ba69-5cc0a107e684.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202014/P1011227.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202014/P1011227.jpg.html)
A light push holding things in place while parts cool


After the cylinder is prepared for the new sleeve it’s time to mark & cut the ports. The blank sleeve is installed in a 500deg. pre-heated cylinder. After everything has cooled to around “Spit Hot” The cylinder & sleeve is immersed in acid for 15 minutes or so.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Album-2/P8160371.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Album-2/P8160371.jpg.html)



The port locations are accurately marked for precise alignment
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2120030.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2120030.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/90c7595c-7f4e-4099-aa92-0df7e78fcc24.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/90c7595c-7f4e-4099-aa92-0df7e78fcc24.jpg.html)

Port locations are accurate & precise
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/dc7d852e-7468-44b2-94de-7c6c3550ac27.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/dc7d852e-7468-44b2-94de-7c6c3550ac27.jpg.html)

In this particular view the left rear transfer is smaller than the right side. This is a factory flaw which a builder such as Arlan Lehman at LED performance can remedy with his Flo-Bench.
Factory craftsmanship can always be improved on with some knowledge & extra effort.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2140036.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2140036.jpg.html)


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2140035.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2140035.jpg.html)


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2140039.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2140039.jpg.html)


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202014/P2140038.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202014/P2140038.jpg.html)

There can be a lot more to a sleeve job than just picking a new sleeve from the Wiesco or Pro-X catalog. At Small Engines & N. W. Sleeve we’ve been at it for many years; Sleeve installs seldom the same.


John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971

[atc007]

Super awesome John. Thanx for posting .

[onformula1]

Primo work as usual, thank you for sharing John

[ironchop]

Awesome thread.

Thanks!

[John Tice]

If any of you have stories to add with a camera; share your project with the readers.
Welding, metal fab & frame repairs, we all learn together.
It takes a while for this thread to catch on. If any of you have cylinder questions, please let us know. Many cycle shops have an Egg Beater hone or a boring bar with little knowledge of how to make them work properly. We will share what we know; I’m attempting to share our knowledge so your local cylinder work will turn out properly.
JT

[John Tice]

Looking forward to working on one There needs to be over sized pistons available before I like to sleeve them.
It's not fair to the to the customer otherwise,
JT

[John Tice]

This thread may be old hat to most of you but I see over & over every month; how do I MEASURE MY PISTON CLEARANCE? This same thread goes into the 3 forums that contain my columns.
Now days imported measuring tools are so inexpensive that there’s no reason for a good mechanic not to include them in their tool kit.

First is a set of micrometers; as with the bore gauge, EBay is a good place to shop. A set from 0” – 6” is the best choice.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image-135.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image-135.jpg.html)
Over the years I’ve acquired many types of micrometers

It seems like everybody has a technique for measuring pistons. I like to start at the bottom of the piston 90deg to the wrist pin. Gently tighten the mandrel until a very light resistance is felt; next I wiggle the mic while loosening & tightening up to the wrist pin centerline. It’s fairly easy to determine the largest diameter. Some pistons have a belly in the bottom about 1/3 of the way up. Always do this 2 or 3 times for each piston & write the sizes down on a scratch pad.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P1011458.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P1011458.jpg.html)
Write all of your dimensions down to help avoid any mistakes


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5200117.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5200117.jpg.html)


Measuring the ID of the bore is just as tricky as the piston dimensions; Telescoping gauges are handy to use at times as also the dependable yet clumsy inside micrometer. The depth micrometer has value measuring flange dimensions.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image-136.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image-136.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5210131.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5210131.jpg.html)
As with most tools several tries with a telescoping are required to get a final dimension.

Many times the mechanic can slip in a snap gauge where a dial bore gauge won’t fit


Seldom is there a place for a caliper whether it be digital or dial
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P4020050-1.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P4020050-1.jpg.html)
These tools are easy to read a bad dimension


A good dial bore gauge
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P3040592-1.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P3040592-1.jpg.html)
I just picked up another for shop #2 for a whole $44.00.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5200119.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5200119.jpg.html)
Setting the dial gauge requires rocking the micrometer in different directions several times to make sure that the smallest dimension is attained.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5230136.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5230136.jpg.html)
Once the final dimension is attained, we simply rotate the dial to a zero setting


Digital dial gauges are a real PAIN
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P3040593.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P3040593.jpg.html)
Extremely difficult to set to zero.


Dial gauges are tricky to fit into a cylinder while mounted in the cylinder boring stand.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P3050597.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P3050597.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P9140054.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P9140054.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5200123.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5200123.jpg.html)

Calculating the skirt clearance is fairly easy; The bore diameter minus the piston diameter. When the forged pistons first came out, they needed to be fit fairly loose. Now day’s forged pistons are fit as tight as the cast models. The operation of fitting pistons gets to be a routine operation in our shop. Mainly; there is NEVER a reason or excuse to make any mistakes in the piston fit. It’s best to do this close & final work without any interruptions.

There are seldom any questions about any of the threads?
There must be some sometimes?
Please ask; it helps keep this site going



John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971

[onformula1]

John, thank you for the info, as always.

I think you would get more play/questions if you took this thread out of- Mad Scientists Lair and put it in the plain Trikesylvania area.

You don't seem to get the response like E2S, where you are a full blown celebrity!

Billy can make that happen.

Thank you, Huge fan of your work.

[John Tice]

Maybe Billy can make the change
JT

[ironchop]

I didn't have any questions as a machinist on measuring instruments part. I thought you explained it all very well and I've learned quite a bit so far from your threads as we've decked and chamfered cylinders, cut new valve reliefs in piston tops, and bore carbs for a local GNCC champ but have never tackled sleeving at all. From a machinist, I can say its a top notch tutorial. I definitely appreciate the knowledge.Thanks John.

Sent from my Z998 using Tapatalk

[John Tice]

Follow the thread & you’ll learn more than you need to know

John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971

[bkm]

Can we make this thread Sticky'd so it doesn't get buried? John thank you for the write up, because I seriously could read your work all day long. I wish I would have applied myself more in school and pursued a career in machining instead of what I do for a living.

[John Tice]

Thank you for the kind words; “How it’s Done” keeps me so busy that I can’t keep up. This is why I’ve decided to throttle things back some. It’s time for somebody else to step up & lend a hand. There will be cylinder repairs to support a family for years to come. A machine shop background or a couple years in community college are an absolute must. I can’t train a person who can’t read a micrometer. We have time to do this together but need to get started. Give me a call after dinner.

:beer

[AK47KID]

Good thing I'm in Oregon. Your about an hour or 2 away from me

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[bkm]

Thank you for the kind words; “How it’s Done” keeps me so busy that I can’t keep up. This is why I’ve decided to throttle things back some. It’s time for somebody else to step up & lend a hand. There will be cylinder repairs to support a family for years to come. A machine shop background or a couple years in community college are an absolute must. I can’t train a person who can’t read a micrometer. We have time to do this together but need to get started. Give me a call after dinner.

:beer
I wish I was closer, I'd work for free just for the knowledge.

[Billy Golightly]

I wish I was closer, I'd work for free just for the knowledge.

You're not the only one!

[bkm]

John, do you remove all the studs prior to boring the cylinder? Is it also good practice to set up a cylinder in a lathe to true the deck and the base surface in order to assure that the cylinder is true in the boring machine and the new bore will be perfectly straight?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[John Tice]

Most times when at all possible the cylinder is bored upside down, this way the studs aren’t an issue. When we bore the cylinder upside down the studs make good spacers for the clamping mechanism.
In the manufacturing process cylinders are characteristically machined parallel on both gasket surfaces.
On many larger & multi cylinders the upper & lower gasket platforms are large enough that boring from top or bottom of the cylinder doesn’t matter.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/IMG_0408.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/IMG_0408.jpg.html)
I avoid skinning the upper & lower gasket surfaces since it can foul up the cylinder deck height. Only the side opposite the bore chucking surface.

[bkm]

Do you have a pic of the clamping mechanism? I'm trying to picture how it's held in place.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[John Tice]

This is how I do the clamp; it swivels in the center.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/IMG_0096.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/IMG_0096.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P1011459.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P1011459.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202014/P1011252.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202014/P1011252.jpg.html)
You can see how it pivots on the bottom

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202014/P5040179.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202014/P5040179.jpg.html)

There should be enough to get the pivot ideas.

I’ve got a new boring plate to be ready next week. 1-3/4” thick with a wider slot for the larger OB motors. 1 of the smaller tables goes to shop #2, the other is available to purchase.

[bkm]

So if it can be bored upside-down, the base is the surface that is resting against the bottom of the table to square it to the boring bar? As long as the bar is perfectly 90 degrees to the bottom of the plate, and the base of the cylinder is square, the new bore should be straight?

[John Tice]

That is correct; upside down, square mount. After the cylinder is clamped, I carefully look around the base & look for any daylight which would show an improper mounting. If any day light shows; I loosen up the clamp & wiggle the cylinder around until it’s square.
Are you thinking about buying your own machine?
Use my email address please. www.john@smallenginemachineworks.com

I’ve got a new boring plate to be ready next week. 1-3/4” thick with a wider slot for the larger OB motors. 1 of the smaller tables goes to shop #2, the other is available to purchase.

[John Tice]

WTB Need a new standard bore piston for a 1972 125cc, 54mm Zundap engine.
Engines were in a Rickman cycle.

[Dirtcrasher]

I am expanding my shop. I would take this on if I felt there was enough work to warrant it.

I have a strong toolmaker and machinist background with a SB Heavy 10 and a Bridgeport. Band saw too.....

[bkm]

That is correct; upside down, square mount. After the cylinder is clamped, I carefully look around the base & look for any daylight which would show an improper mounting. If any day light shows; I loosen up the clamp & wiggle the cylinder around until it’s square.
Are you thinking about buying your own machine?
Use my email address please. www.john@smallenginemachineworks.com

I’ve got a new boring plate to be ready next week. 1-3/4” thick with a wider slot for the larger OB motors. 1 of the smaller tables goes to shop #2, the other is available to purchase.
I've been kicking it around if I could find one local and for the right price. I've got a few irons in the fire I need to finish before I take on a project like this, but I'd really to explore it at a later date.

[John Tice]

The big quad thumpers are starting to wear out; I’ve been busy with some interesting projects. It takes only a moment to cut a fire ring groove if you’ve got a lathe to work with.

[Dirtcrasher]

Whats a fire ring groove John??

[onformula1]

The big quad thumpers are starting to wear out; I’ve been busy with some interesting projects. It takes only a moment to cut a fire ring groove if you’ve got a lathe to work with.

Do you use- mild steel wire, copper wire or are you going to use o-rings?

[John Tice]

Never get in a hurry to buy the first boring equipment that pops up. If you’re a patient person you’ll find a cycle shop in financial trouble; I’ve purchased cylinder machines for ½ of what their really worth. You need to be able to wave $100 dollar bills under their noses, cash is KING. Many times your shop is bare of equipment; the next week you might wonder where to put all of the wonderful stuff.

My new boring machine bench came back from the surface grinder yesterday. It’s 20” by 60”; there’s enough width so 2 machines can swap ends without worrying if 1 will fall off the table. Pictures will follow after the weekend. 1 of the older tables will go to shop #2 & I’m going to put the other for sale with an extra FWS machine. This will be a good opportunity for a fair price. My problem is my 2 extra machines are missing the tool kit especially the sets of centering fingers. CRAP

Special tables aren’t difficult to build for yourself. If you have a standard triangular boring stand; you will probably wish it was a little larger after you bore a couple dozen cylinders. It seems like they always get larger as the space becomes available.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P4010042.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P4010042.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P4010045-1.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P4010045-1.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P4010048.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P4010048.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P4010045.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P4010045.jpg.html)

One key is finding a shop which has a surface grinder to finish the tops & bottoms.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image-12-1.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image-12-1.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Newboringstand023.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Newboringstand023.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Newboringstand025-Copy.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Newboringstand025-Copy.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Newboringstand032.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Newboringstand032.jpg.html)

The small double table; A friend burned the top for free, surface grind top & bottom = $100.00. 1-1/2" square tubing $150.00 for base. A friend put together the fab work & the custom table is complete. If you're clever things can be put together for less than an ARM & a LEG. With this Old Dog's bad back; I can only do the sit down projects.

Stay Tuned
JT

[John Tice]

I’m new at this fire ring machining; what would the rest of you recommend for the wire material?
It seems like just about any type of metal would work?

[bkm]

Whats a fire ring groove John??

Cutting a groove in the cylinder or head for a wire gasket or O-ring.

[onformula1]

I’m new at this fire ring machining; what would the rest of you recommend for the wire material?
It seems like just about any type of metal would work?

I like copper for high PSI, if you are eliminating the gaskets go with o-rings (Or a combo) or you will have to use Barr's leak or ground black pepper to stop coolant leaks without o-rings and no gaskets.

I have never used mild steel, I prefer something more malleable, less rust too.

[John Tice]

Where in the world did you find out about ground black pepper?

[onformula1]

Where in the world did you find out about ground black pepper?

Old trick Mickey Thompson shared with my father, they were friends. Past down to me, it does work and doesn't hurt seals.

[onformula1]

If memory serves, it was a tip from one the Spice Girls. Feel free to cyber slap me. Repeatedly.

Funny, but you may be surprised at how many kitchen items work in/on our machines.

[tripledog]

Funny, but you may be surprised at how many kitchen items work in/on our machines.


And demanding equal pay at that...

[Dirtcrasher]

Yeah, Ricky Johnson ran vegetable oil in his lower end, :lol:

[Mickey Dunlap]

Well it's good to hear from you John, I didn't know what happen to NW Sleeve when I called to place a order so I had to go with Advance sleeve, but I still use your mouse pad every day! lol. And I have to say I learned something new about striping the plated cylinders. All this time I just bored the plating out, but you go through a lot of cutters that way too, thanks. See you can teach a old dog new tricks!

230323

[John Tice]

Mickey; With Nitric acid, NiCaSil strips as fast as you can drop your trousers. Hard Chrome as Yamaha uses is a real problem to strip. Some goes away after soaking for 8 hours & some won’t strip with the chemicals that I use. Adding an electrical current would probably start the chrome to move.

For the cylinders which I can’t strip; I take a .100” deep cut i.e. .050” per side. This gets under the plating & doesn’t harm my cutters much.

It’s nice to hear from someone who’s a little more scientific about his projects.


NWSleeve & Small Engine are now one in the same; I’m now retired & am unable to keep up with my work load. I’m still around & do high quality custom work for those who can wait a while.

John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
Division of Tice Industries Inc.
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop.com

[John Tice]

I’m mentoring a cycle shop owner who lives in Romania; Cristi sent me an Email asking about our Chinese vertical hone. This is my reply which I thought may be of interest to the rest of the readership.



Cristi; Just finishing my morning coffee. Pictures to follow. If you log onto www.alibaba.com & enter vertical hone, some suppliers & info should come up. I’m starting to change my “How it’s Done 2015” page into a more educational page which may be of interest to you.
I’m glad to hear from you; got more work than I can handle.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0422.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0422.jpg.html)
I put a hardware store ammeter on the power cord to show the load & when the cutting is complete. I've been told that it will work better while tapping into the power input only.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0423.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0423.jpg.html)
Changed the supplied clamping mechanism with this heavy duty contraption; When the supplied clamp finally arrived, I found that it works well.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0211.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0211.jpg.html)
I purchased a heavy duty deluxe Sunnen hone head which opens & expands many times faster than the supplied heads. The supplied heads have such a limited range that I was always changing stone sets with misc other problems.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0312.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0312.jpg.html)
This is the first big bore quad cylinder which uses the supplied clamping set up. I'm going to change the clamping screrws from metric to my standard mill clamping set.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0325.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0325.jpg.html)
Supplied with the hone was a Micky Mouse U joint hooking the drive to the head. The screws were so small & clumsy that the head changes were almost impossible to change.
With my new joint all that is needed to change the head is pulling the lower screw & swapping the heads.




http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0212.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0212.jpg.html)
A Honda 50 using a small head


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0314.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0314.jpg.html)
The large Quad cylinder with the Sunnen head retracted


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0196.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0196.jpg.html)
Harley cylinder with a torque plate attached to the head gasket surface


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0214.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0214.jpg.html)
175 cylinder using a Chinese head


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0217.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0217.jpg.html)
The basic hone comes with the 3 RH heads, the extra head on the left goes to +120mm


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0215.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0215.jpg.html)
Blaster cylinder using our Sunnen head


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0146.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Vertical%20Hone/IMG_0146.jpg.html)
Smallest head using a new small U joint


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202015/IMG_3053.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202015/IMG_3053.jpg.html)
I'm sitting at the hone adjusting


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202015/IMG_0072.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202015/IMG_0072.jpg.html)
Machine as it was being uncrated


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/January%202015/IMG_0074.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/January%202015/IMG_0074.jpg.html)
Complete hone after uncrateing

Adjusting the stone stroke height takes a few turns on the crank handle at the top of the machine. Since Chinese people are rather short in stature the tallness of the machine surprised me.
I had the crew make a new base which is 6" shorter so I can reach the stroke height crank.

The machine cost is only $2200.00 USC. With freight & Duty total cost is around $5000.00.
Send me another email for more questions.

For you people who are familiar with the Sunnen hone set up, you will notice the different stone configurations.
We most always use the double stone set which is designed for honing splinded bores..
The set hones twice as fast & doesn’t catch in 2 stroke ports.




John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop.com

:beer

[atc007]

I really appreciate the message John,and Thank you. It was a real privilege talking with you. You are truly one of the greats left from years gone by. The world needs a whole lot more like you. I will stay in touch,good luck getting that thing in place today/this week. Hopefully you get all the bugs out of her and smooth as a whistle sooner than later. You're definitely off to a great start!

[John Tice]

Thank You
JT

[John Tice]

New Boring bar table
Most of you readers are hooked on one kind of cycle or another. I’ve been stuck on one kind of machine tool or another; where we all meet in the middle is the power plant. The common denominator is the cylinder in that little old gasoline engine.
Recently I’ve been improving on my cylinder boring stands. The newest model is 20” deep by 60” long. This new model is 1-3/4” thick, ¼” thicker than the smaller ones used in my shop. It’s easier to slide around the 150 pound boring machines without as much worry of pushing one off on the floor or a foot in the way. As you all have made cycle friendships; I’ve got many friends in the machine shop & fabricating business. My Portland Oregon area is large enough that we have many small & large companies in different kinds of machine & metal cutting businesses. The new boring table stand needed a substantial amount of Water Jet cutting. One of our acquaintances is equipped with just the machine that we needed. The table was still a rather spendy item; $700 for the metal cut to size & another $300 for surface grinding the top & bottom sides. $100 for the lengths of 2” square tube for the base.

The new table will hold 3 machines with ease & plenty of room for tools & such
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0537.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0537.jpg.html)
Weight is around 500 lbs so handling with the fork lift is necessary

We are using 3 Kwik Way machines on this particular table with a 4”wide slot for boring multi cylinder blocks & an assortment of smaller round holes for single cylinders.
The base is the same height as earlier models so I can work with while sitting & taking it easy on my bad back.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0538.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0538.jpg.html)
The new table has nearly full length ½” slots for sliding the hold down’s back & forth

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0541.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0541.jpg.html)
Vincent is on the Fork Lift moving the table across the shop

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0546.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0546.jpg.html)
Out the loading door & into the cylinder boring room


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0553.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0553.jpg.html)
Off & running; left side is our largest machine, Kwik Way #FN, 2-3/4” & up. Center; Kwik Way #FW 2-1/4” & up. Right side; Kwik Way #FWS 1-3/4” & up.


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0549.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0549.jpg.html)
First job; CR500 cylinder, plenty of room to slide around for positioning

We have an extra FWS machine which will be mounted on one of the smaller stands for sale. The other small stand is in Shop #2 (the garage at the house); this is where I can work on the weekends with no interruptions.

:beer

[John Tice]

Using your 3 jaw chuck to mount your cylinder

Did you ever have a need to mount a cylinder to clean a top or bottom gasket surface
This is a technique which we occasionally use when a center & mandrel are in the way.
We first need an extra set of jaws; the jaws are mounted on the chuck & clamped as usual.

With this particular application 3, 1” round rods were welded to the extra set of jaws
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0526.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0526.jpg.html)

The problem with my idea is that a 2” 125cc cylinder was too small to fit over the 3 extended jaws. Next was the problem of accurately machining the jaws to accept the 2” bore cylinder. The jaws needed to be expanded & machined under load to be accurate.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0525.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0525.jpg.html)
I scrounged a length of ¼” brass rod which could be any ¼” rod; also a small cut of round tube. Brad drilled a ¼” hole in each chuck jaw.

After the 3 holes were drilled the 1” pieces of brass rod were inserted.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0524.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0524.jpg.html)


Finally I slipped the piece of tube over the 3 brass rods & opened the chuck lightly to put a load on the jaws.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0523.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0523.jpg.html)
With the load on the jaws, they can be accurately machined down until the 125cc KTM cylinder fits over.

The 125cc KTM cylinder is counter bored on the upper end of the cylinder which makes things tricky when a new sleeve is installed.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0533.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0533.jpg.html)
After we slide the cylinder on the jaws, a pipe center is bumped from the tail stock to ensure concentricity of the cylinder.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0535.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0535.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0536.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0536.jpg.html)
It’s easy to do the counter boring operation with the tailstock side of the cylinder clear of obstructions.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0529.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0529.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0530.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0530.jpg.html)
The base is accurately trimmed

Your questions & comments are more than welcomed; we all learn together.


John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop.com

:beer

[John Tice]

Let’s back up a page or so & talk about skirt clearances. There is a lot to think about in piston fits, Plate or sleeve. First; it’s commonly thought that a plated cylinder dissipates heat much better; therefore the plated cylinder uses a much tighter cylinder skirt clearance. It’s time to back up another page or so & consider how tight the sleeve is fit into your aluminum cylinder? LA sleeve & Advanced Cylinder Sleeve companies both tell how tight the new sleeve needs to fit, true enough but how is the sleeve fit in your aluminum cylinder?
If you take your top end to your favorite “Hot Shoe” racing cycle shop & have them fit a new ported sleeve; how is your new sleeve fit to your cylinder, knowing how tight is only the start.

At times a cylinder which has been sleeved by others comes to us for repairs. The sleeve was manufactured by one of the previous mentioned companies. The Sleeve was beautifully produced but had a Bum fit. This conversation has nothing to do with the manufacturers mentioned.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Album-2/PA300371.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Album-2/PA300371.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Album-2/PA300370.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Album-2/PA300370.jpg.html)
This is what our customer got from another “Hot Shoe” rebuilder & tuner. I suspect that the shop knew that the fit was incorrect but was helpless for a repair solution.

Fitting a sleeve is much like fitting a piston; the final honed fit must be precise.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Album-2/PB140410.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Album-2/PB140410.jpg.html)
A CR500 Honda cylinder waiting for the new sleeve.

After the precise honed fit has been produced; the press fit which has been previously determined needs to be reconsidered. The sleeve fit helps determine the final piston skirt clearance.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image-134.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image-134.jpg.html)
An accurate dial bore gauge is a must in every engine builder’s tool box
The key to this precision fitting business is the coefficient of linier expansion of cast iron & aluminum. When heated to higher temperatures, aluminum expands significantly more than does cast iron. We use 500 degrees for our elevated temperature to insert cylinder sleeves. It’s highly recommended that the machinist measure both the aluminum cylinder & iron sleeve at room temperature & 500 deg. This is the key to figuring the new sleeve’s shrink or press fits. In our shop we use a -.002” for 125’s & smaller, -.003” for 250’s & -.004” for 500cc cylinders. It’s highly recommended that temperature & size measurements are periodically taken. In the process of doing cylinder liner installations; I’ve found that Honda & Yamaha periodically fit sleeves from -.001” to -.0015” press fits. With these looser fits the stock OEM liners can usually be pressed in & out at room temperatures.

How do we fit our sleeve installations? We first ruff bore a plated cylinder +.250” larger than the std. bore diameter. This will net the final sleeve thickness of 1mm after the cylinder has been over bored another 2mm oversize. The final sleeve thickness is rather thin but necessary to ensure proper function of any power valve installations. This is the general oversize of sleeve in a 2 stroke bore; we’ve got an Excel spread sheet programmed to produce bore consistency.
Next the new cylinder sleeve is ruff turned to +.010” larger than the aluminum cylinder. With the new sleeve +.010” larger than your cylinder bore; the aluminum cylinder is finally precession honed to the new sleeve press fit. I use this system of fitting the new sleeve as it helps greatly if making a mistake fit.
With all of these dimensions flying around in every direction; it’s necessary for the engine builder to have a thorough knowledge of arithmetic & geometry. Have a few hand calculators in your shop for handy instant access. Remember that 4”/ .03937 = 101.6mm, the conversion factor from inches to millimeters.

After the cylinder is heated, the new sleeve is lowered & alined. A light press is applied to the top of the sleeve to make sure it’s bedded in place.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P8150013.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P8150013.jpg.html)


After the final bore is completed, off to the cylinder hone. We use a Sunnen connecting rod hone as it gives the best control of cylinder sizing. Yes; you need the proper piston skirt clearance, but as of the clearance the cylinder must also be round & straight. Squaring with the bore is best accomplished by mounting a cylinder upside down. (More on this in other sections)
I use a double stone three point connecting rod mandrel for cylinders under 2-1/2” in bore diameter. Above 2-1/2” a double stone “AN” type of mandrel is used. Both of these mandrels render a smooth round & straight bore when used by a skilled operator.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5200122.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5200122.jpg.html)
Large hone type “AN” head for bores larger tan 2-1/2”

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P1210342-Copy-1.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P1210342-Copy-1.jpg.html)
Smaller 3 point mandrel used for cylinders less than 2-1/2”.
You may notice the cylinder hanging by a couple of Bungee cords. With my bad back as many of us suffer from; the cylinders are hanging from the ceiling which enables the cylinder to be flipped from end to end, taper control & easy measurements.
(Other types of honing equipment are noted in another section.)

Back to the Skirt clearances; I use the resources of Wiesco piston who has a cycle engine mounted on a Dyno for testing skirt clearances. Wiesco claims that their forged pistons are machined in such a manner that they need barely more than a zero skirt clearance to run without seizing. Granted this is only for testing purposes.
I’ve found that the recommended skirt clearances which are printed on each Wiesco piston box; works fine for most cast & forged 2 stroke pistons. With the very short skirts on late model 4 stroke engines, it’s wise to contact the particular piston manufacturer for clearance advice. Now days both types of pistons are machined to run minimal skirt clearances. After the honing is complete the ports are deburred & the cylinder is rinsed in the parts washer. The measuring tools are rechecked for accuracy; the skirt clearance is double checked, the piston is fit, top & bottom of the cylinder. Any discrepancy in accuracy can be corrected before the job is delivered.
Cast or forged pistons; sleeved or plated bores, when we hone the final skirt clearance; I most always add +.0005” to the recommended fits. With this slight addition to the clearance; I maintain that both types of cylinders each have close to the same heat dissipation rate.
You’re comments & criticism is more than welcome; we all learn together.

John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop.com

[John Tice]

“How it’s Done” Can be the start of a new career for those who read the thread. We need new blood in the cylinder & machine shop area. I’ll help you get started at no cost; We spend hours on the evening phone tutoring new & prospective students. Whether setting up new equipment or learning how to operate your cylinder boring machine. Give me a call most any evening until 9pm pacific.


John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop.com

[El Camexican]

Just curious about the table in post #27. Did you have it stress relived before the machine work was done?

[John Tice]

Good question; no stress relief. This is the fourth table which I’ve fabricated up. Never any problems, the first one which I did some 35 years ago; we had to regrind it from warping after doing a few thousand cylinders.
My first boring stand; 1-3/4” steel plate
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image-10-1.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image-10-1.jpg.html)
1-3/4” – 3-1/2”
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/image-14-1.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/image-14-1.jpg.html)
2-1/4” - 4” capacity
You may notice the early model Kwik Way machines; we bored our first thousand cylinders in 1977

[El Camexican]

I asked because we worked with some large billets at one point making the pivot bars for articulating transit buses. They would start as a 900# billet and end up weighing about 420# when all the chips were swept away. The first attempt without stress reviving resulted in a very expensive pretzel. After that we always stressed relived them. I've had similar experiences with some jig making tables we built. Seems they would all distort a little after a few skim passes, but none were as thick as your slab.

We did roll some 2" (even up to 4" a few times) plates into electric motor housings (18" to 36" I.D.) and then roughly bored them before sending them out for final machining. They all had to be stress relived as well, but that was partially due to the weld seams.

Anyway, glad yours worked out :beer

[John Tice]

It would seem as though you people did quite a bit more forming or machine work on your parts. Our surface grinder operator used a feeler gauge after flipping the plate over for grinding the back side. The footprint on the cylinder & boring bar are so small that plate worpage & flex aren’t any issue before this old fart checks out.
Thank you for the post; maybe in your next life you can take up the trade.

[El Camexican]

I've worked with metal of one sort or another for over 31 years, including almost 10 around a machine shop, that's plenty for me.

I do admire your passion for this trade. You can always tell when someone does something they enjoy for a living. I hope you find a competent successor to pass your knowledge onto. Meanwhile please keep the posts coming!

[Dirtcrasher]

John, I'd be all over this if I had a 30 x 60 shop and could work for you for 2 weeks.

Whoever dives into this needs to work with you for awhile...

Steve
DC

[John Tice]

Most of this can be taught over the telley; I’ve got a couple of students now, 1 with a Kwik Way FWS & the other with a Bore Master Bench machine. It’s all in feed & speed; with the tool width thrown in when we talk about chatter. Most anyone can learn if you can read a set of measuring tools.
JT

[John Tice]

07/23/16 How it’s done

The last few months I’ve been doing a catch up on our work load. For you people who I’ve been dragging my feet, I apologize for being so slow. Since my last entry to this thread; we received a 6 month supply of cylinder repairs in around 2 weeks. It’s taken me since last January to catch up.

My intent for this thread has always been to encourage others to get involved in the cylinder repair business. I have at this time only a couple of people in any kind of a training program. This is a FREE service for any of you who would be interested. Send me an email or give me an evening call (pacific time) & we can talk about it. There is good money to be made for the right person & I’ll help you get started.

We are continuing to receive some interesting repairs which I’ll continue to share with all of you.

A man from Arkansas sent in a V-6 outboard block to replace 1 cylinder sleeve. Unfortunately the shipping is costing as much as the repair itself. Our standard procedure for port marking 2 stroke cylinders is an etch with nitric acid. Since nitric acid attacks any kind of iron material, I was unable to mark the port locations in the standard way. With most outboard cylinders we mark the port locations with a paper trace. The trace is a rather delicate operation but with steady hands the results turn out quite nicely.
With most outboard blocks it’s necessary to fashion a torque plate to clamp the engine to the cylinder boring stand.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0587.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0587.jpg.html)

With a close look you can see the C-clamps holding the block to the boring stand
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0585.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0585.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0583.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0583.jpg.html)
We take very light cuts on the sleeve to be replaced until it becomes paper thin & is easily removed with a pair of pliers.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0581.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0581.jpg.html)
With a light hand the ports have been marked on scratch paper. The ports are machined on the vertical mill as all of our 2 stroke ports are machined.

The new sleeve is fit with a shrink fit the same as any other 2 stroke liner. We always heat the block to over 200 degrees to check its particular expansion rate. There is only one chance to align the ports properly before the temperature equalizes between the cylinder & new sleeve.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0576.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0576.jpg.html)
The new sleeve is bored to standard & surfaced for a tight head gasket fit.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0592.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0592.jpg.html)
Another project was a couple of Ariel square four cylinder blocks. The left one is cast iron & the right one is aluminum with iron sleeves.
With the iron block the straight sleeves are fit with a -.001” press fit. The aluminum block was fit with flanged sleeves & a -.003” shrink fit. Unfortunately the heavy 35lb. iron block was bumped & a portion of one of the fins was broken off. We TIG welded it back on with silver solder; our customer was not at all happy with the repair, these things happen on occasion.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0593.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0593.jpg.html)
The Ariel block being finish honed on our vertical machine


Another repair is with a slipped sleeve in a 125cc cylinder.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0602.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0602.jpg.html)
Whoever installed this new liner really botched the job. We always bore & hone a cylinder before the new sleeve is turned. The fit of your new sleeve is as important as the piston’s skirt clearance.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0610.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0610.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0604.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0604.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0614.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0614.jpg.html)
We started this repair by mounting the cylinder in the Kwik Way & boring out the sleeve. The sleeve started to spin & jammed up the cutter. The cylinder has been honed round & straight; we’ll turn a new sleeve next week.

A KX500 Kawasaki was sleeved last week
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0596.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0596.jpg.html)

The KX500 has unusual exhaust porting
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0595.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0595.jpg.html)


Not all of the big bore 4 stroke engines have a press or shrink fit liner
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0568.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0568.jpg.html)

This particular cylinder has a large non slip ring around the center. A rather tricky one to hone, well suited for our power vertical machine.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0566.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0566.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0568.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0568.jpg.html)


Our custom made cylinder sleeves are all machined on our manual machining equipment
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0569.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0569.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0571.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0571.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0572.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0572.jpg.html)
An accurate set of expanding mandrels is the key to concentric cylinder liners
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0554.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0554.jpg.html)


A surface plate & height gauge is handy while machining new cylinder liners.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0556.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0556.jpg.html)


John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop.com

[arlaunch]

This is by far the neatest thread i have ever seen.

They can't all be stickies but...

This one deserves it.

I am going to bring my 350X cylinder, coffee and donuts into this kind fella.

Thank you for the write up.

[John Tice]

I only do cylinder repairs, boring & sleeve manufacture. My educational & tutoring work is done over the phone with individual people who are interested in the trade. We don’t do any work on 4 stroke heads. I’m retired & must focus on the work which I enjoy the most.
I’m more than happy to supply a new piston & do the work on your cylinder. Thank you for showing interest on the cylinder repair trade. Call me most any time if you want to talk on the phone. This is a long weekend for me, I’m at 541-508-3944, evenings are the best time for me.

All the best
JT

[NETRA3]

I wish there were more shops like this on the east coast.....I'd love to do this kind of work...too bad I'm old now, I should have done this sooner.

[John Tice]

Study, Study, Study

[oscarmayer]

Love this guy!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John Tice]

How it’s done; 09-01-16
It’s been a while since I’ve written in this thread. We’ve been very busy this summer.
The picture taking has been continual & random so I’ll write about what comes up next.
We started with the Ariel square 4 in the last entry so there isn’t much in order.
There was a cast iron block & an aluminum block to install sleeves in each of 4 cylinders. The aluminum block had the usual flanged sleeves & the iron block had a -.001” cold pressed sleeves.

The BZM50 Cylinder
We got this one in to work on last week; no instructions& no email return address. Since we are in the sleeve manufacturing business we started to install a new sleeve. Later on when we were around ½ finished with the new sleeve install, the customer gave me a call to see how the project was coming along. What they wanted was a big bore prep for another hard plating job. In my attempt to deliver on a timely basis, we went the wrong direction.
As is usually thought the customer was under the assumption that a plated cylinder dissipates heat much faster than a sleeved cylinder. If the sleeve is properly installed with a good tight fit there’s little difference in heat dissipation. How do I know? I only give the cylinder an extra .0005” clearance to be sure. We’ve never had a seizure from too tight of a skirt clearance.

This little guy was such a small bore that machining down a special Sunnen hone mandrel was necessary.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0645.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0645.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0644.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0644.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0646.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0646.jpg.html)


This very small cylinder was bored on our old & tired Kwik-Way Colt boring bar.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P1011581.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P1011581.jpg.html)
This little machine bores as small as a 35mm , 1-3/8” cylinder diameter


If you look closely you can see the advanced 3 port exhaust port arrangement.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0676.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0676.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0672.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0672.jpg.html)
This particular type of cylinder responds quite well to tuned exhausts’

This cylinder could have problems in that just below the exhaust port there is a hole between the cooling fins.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0653.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0653.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0651.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0651.jpg.html)
The cylinder is bored to accept the new cylinder sleeve.
If you look back a few pages in the thread you can see how you can bore a small cylinder like this one on most any shop lathe.

The new sleeve blank has been roughed out, porting & polishing is finished

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0665.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0665.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0660.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0660.jpg.html)

The finished cylinder was shipped off to the customer
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0678.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0678.jpg.html)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0681.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/BZM%2050cc/IMG_0681.jpg.html)


I’m attempting to get more people involved in the cylinder repair business. Anybody with a machine shop background can get into this trade with a minimal amount of training. My 68th birthday is on the 6th this week. Someday I’ll retire & there won’t be many left to do the work. As long as I’m around & breathing; I’m available for free training on the phone.
You’ll not see the reciprocating engines go away for at least another hundred years or so. Never assume that plated cylinders will do away with the needs of repairs.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/April%202016/IMG_0585.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/April%202016/IMG_0585.jpg.html)
My 3 large Kwik-Way machines are used daily in my shop

I’ve also got 2 more of the smaller Kwik-Way machines in my garage at home. Many times I’ll take a long weekend away from the shop; still doing some more cylinder repairs at home.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P4190069.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P4190069.jpg.html)


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/IMG-3.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/IMG-3.jpg.html)
My new Lagun FT1 vertical mill purchased some 40 years ago

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P5230142.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P5230142.jpg.html)
Every cylinder repair shop must have good honing equipment. A good used Sunnen hand held unit can be found on Craig’s list for around $175.00.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/P1210342-Copy.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/P1210342-Copy.jpg.html)
Sunnen con rod hones can be purchased used for less than $2 grand. With a set up like this you will be turning out round & straight cylinder bores every time after time.

Now days a few hundred $s will get you a set of mandrels for turning sleeves on your lathe
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/Album-2/P9110414.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/Album-2/P9110414.jpg.html)

HF lazer temp gauge, weed burner & 20ton press
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p497/johntice1/August%202013/P9150066.jpg (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/johntice1/media/August%202013/P9150066.jpg.html)

All hints to help you get started

John Tice
503-593-2908 Alternate 541-508-3944
www.smallenginemachineworks.com & www.nwsleeve.com
Turning Custom Cylinder Sleeves Since 1971
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop.com

[Rob Canadian]

I love your passion. You do awesome work.

Happy early B-DAY to you.