Why did they switch to a skinny front tire??

[hawaiirider]

Always wondered why the latter model trikes had switched to a tall skinny front? example tecate, 250r etc.
I had a 250sx, tri moto and 82 250r and thought they handled great with the fat front and noticed it sunk in the sand less as well.
I did have to lower the pressure on all these bikes to get the front not to push though, it worked though!

How about Hondas atc 90's tires? No rim? ive never rode one with those balloons but they seem genius (suspension is in tire)
always felt the 110 would have been a rougher ride then a early 90:Bounce

[ATCT]

Well, I think Honda in '82 (for the '83 250R) said it was done for responsiveness. I honestly think the rest of the manufacturers just copied what they did. I always noticed that the taller tire in dirt and non-sand terrain tended to "plow" less than the 22 x 11-8 front tire (I started on an '84 125M and graduated to an '86 350X).

[John_Neary]

imo it was done for the same reason air forks are being pushed in motocross atm...cheaper to produce

[ATCT]

It certainly helped Dunlop sales for a while. There weren't any other 23.5" tires out for some time.

[John_Neary]

the 8 inch wheel on the front limited the size of the brake disk that could be used so that might of been something taken into consideration when they switched to the tall, skinny fronts

[barnett468]

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Kawi never considered the cost of a tire . . We spent countless hours doing tire tests on many different tires, often with the tire engineers with us . . The only reason the 86 Tecate has a taller and narrower tire than the 84/85 bikes do is because I thought it would work better for the intended use, which it did.

If you compare the Honda tire to the Tecate tire, you will see that the Tecate one has a slightly lower profile and is slightly wider than the Honda tire which makes it perform far better than the Honda tire in most conditions when the bike is ridden hard.

The behemoth profile of the Honda tire, which is similar to that of the huge Whitewall tires used on cars like a Packard back in the 1940's, does provide for a more "comfy" ride than the Tecate tire, which suits the atc250r's "Recreational Rider" target market perfectly.


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[barnett468]

the 8 inch wheel on the front limited the size of the brake disk that could be used so that might of been something taken into consideration when they switched to the tall, skinny fronts

Braking was actually not an issue with the 85 Tecate front brake . . We spent many hours trying different parts, until eventually, it worked well enough that I could lock it up with just 2 fingers.

[John_Neary]

@Barnett468 - the 85 Tecate with its 10 inch wheels had a larger diameter front brake disk than the 81/82 Honda 250R had, yes? I agree the front brake on the 85 Tecate was plenty strong enough for me.

[barnett468]

@Barnett468 - the 85 Tecate with its 10 inch wheels had a larger diameter front brake disk than the 81/82 Honda 250R had, yes? I agree the front brake on the 85 Tecate was plenty strong enough for me.

I actually have no idea what the non water cooled Honda's had and have never even ridden one so I can't make a comparison between the two like you can, but of course, the bigger the wheel, the bigger the brake can be, and the taller the tire, the better the brake should be because of the additional force needed to stop it.

As well as the 85 Tecate front brake worked, it was obviously still not like power brakes would be, and therefore, I would think that a disc on an 8" rim would definitely kinda suck, and that due to the total effective area of the caliper and pad and disc on an 8" rim etc, the 84 Tecate drum brake may have worked just as well if not better than the early Honda disc . . In fact, I actually got an 84 Tecate drum brake to stop with just 2 fingers because I wanted to see just how well the drum could work in a perfect world, but it did take a few tricks and I did have to occasionally sand the shoes to restore their effectiveness . . I suppose I should have let Team Green know about it but I didn't think about that, besides, Jimmie and Donnie were plenty big and strong enough to get it to stop well enough just the way it was. :lol:

[John_Neary]

first gen Honda front brake disk is 7 1/4" in diameter, front end is off my Franks atm while Milner is sorting out the forks so was easy to measure :)

[El Camexican]

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Kawi never considered the cost of a tire . .

They didn't need to, they saved a fortune on the stators :lol:

[onformula1]

The skinny front tire offers-

Quicker steering

A lighter feel at the bars

Larger front rotor for better stopping power

The larger tire works better in whoops, chop and square edged stuff

More air flow to the motor for better cooling

Lighter weight, all of which in unsprung for better suspension performance

Narrower triple clamps for less flex

Less sidewall flex and roll over

[christph]

I agree with onformula1 although he came up with more reasons than I had. A narrower tire offers more precise steering and drops down in holes less, something you really notice when you also ride a motocross bike. I sail through whoops on my motocross bike that feel like a roller coaster on my 3 wheelers. The only downside of the taller tire is it makes the bike a bit more tippy. When the 83 250R first came out with the tall tire, Dirtwheels noted it felt more tippy over the previous model.

[bkm]

They didn't need to, they saved a fortune on the stators :lol:

Point, set, match!

[Red Rider]

The skinny front tire offers-

Quicker steering

A lighter feel at the bars

Larger front rotor for better stopping power

The larger tire works better in whoops, chop and square edged stuff

More air flow to the motor for better cooling

Lighter weight, all of which in unsprung for better suspension performance

Narrower triple clamps for less flex

Less sidewall flex and roll overAlso, more lock-to-lock turning radius.

[John_Neary]

what does it have to do with steering lock?

[Red Rider]

what does it have to do with steering lock?The fork spacing on triple-clamps for a wide front tire will hit the gas tank before a narrower set.

[John_Neary]

i guess that depends on the gas tank's shape, my 85 250R needed a short course kit just as badly as my 82 250R needed its gas tank trimmed down

*edit* one thing the narrow front does well is letting the radiator shrouds clear the forks and clamps when full lock

[barnett468]

The only downside of the taller tire is it makes the bike a bit more tippy. When the 83 250R first came out with the tall tire, Dirtwheels noted it felt more tippy over the previous model.

That's odd...no magazine EVER said....The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The World AND the Universe, was tippy.

"The undisputed king of horsepower; the Kawasaki Tecate, held its crown for '86..."

"The Tecate, true to its pure race form, turned precisely and, using proper throttle and brake techniques, could be put into a picture-perfect slide."


Man it cracks me up when he does that!

. . http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif

[barnett468]

i guess that depends on the gas tank's shape, my 85 250R needed a short course kit just as badly as my 82 250R needed its gas tank trimmed down

Yup, and I bet ya didn't need short track kit on your TECATE did ya!

[El Camexican]

That's odd...no magazine EVER said....The TECATE...The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The World AND the Universe, was tippy.

They used the available space on the page to complain about the rear suspension.

[vroomy]

Haha this is getting quite funny!

[roll on 3]

one thing i noticed about the 85 tecate in sand pits was if you put the forks on backwards it handles much better, just dont go on pavement SCARRY.
Found this out on accident when swaping a front end to go ride one weekend in a rush.

[hawaiirider]

I had a 200x w a old 82 250r front end on it, it handled very good in sand, better than the narrow tire.

my dirtwheels mags have the Honda 250r winning shootout every year btw, I just checked.
said the tecate was better for track use but Honda for overall use each yr

[cbx1170]

You also have to remember this was back when Honda put 23 inch fronts on some of their dirt bikes to give them a larger diameter to " roll over larger objects easier". Sales tool. A bigger wheel goes over a log better i guess...