Discussion: Improving Big Red brakes.

[Louis Mielke]

Well I for one hate the stock cable drum brakes on the 85/86 Honda atc250es big red. I'm toying with the idea of working on a disk brake conversion. Lets get some chatter on this. Who's with me? Who's against and why?

[big specht]

It has been done before the hardest part I think will be mounting a flange to the hub for the disk. So it's a bolt on kit. They make rear bolt on disk brakes for the 300 fourtrax but the hub and bearing flange are bigger than the bigred/sx. Another thing is trying to keep the hand and foot brake operational. They do make longer bango bolts that are made to double stack brake lines on but I'm not sure how to go about plumbing in two master cylinders unless there is a check valve that will work in brake lines.

[atc007]

Against because Big Red brakes ROCK! But,I'm old fashioned and absolutely love drum brakes. If things are anywhere near right,,,,you can have them to lock up at the tip of your toes or an inch of play or anywhere in between.Tear in there, pull the cam out,shine it grease it,align the timing marks,heck,the drum can be worn to crap,and they will still work like new, $10 Wide open pads or OE Honda,don't matter.Make sure your cable is cleaned and lubed,or throw a new one at it.I literally fail to see how anyone could not LOVE the set up.They will lock right up at top speed and bring you skidding to a stop or adjust them anywhere you want in between. Having said that,and knowing your skills,, there is a thread somewhere in here about the guys welding a disc on the Diff side,pretty sano set up. Only advantage I would see is more water proof,but I personally wouldn't like the feel.Good luck whatever you have in mind ;)

[DohcBikes]

Another thing is trying to keep the hand and foot brake operational. Use a caliper that has a cable operated parking brake.

I agree with Bill. I've rebuilt lots of big red and fourtrax rear brakes and as long as you address everything while you're in there they work great.

[Louis Mielke]

I have never had luck with drum brakes, even after dissembling, blasting old parts, powder/anti seize, springs the whole enchilada! I'm also spoiled by the disk brakes on sport quads/trikes/ I keep them maintained to nearly instant lockup typicaly. I just know going down hill and up hill at in some more knarly trails on a big red I've often wished the brakes were stronger.

[Jmoozy27]

It has been done before the hardest part I think will be mounting a flange to the hub for the disk. So it's a bolt on kit. They make rear bolt on disk brakes for the 300 fourtrax but the hub and bearing flange are bigger than the bigred/sx. Another thing is trying to keep the hand and foot brake operational. They do make longer bango bolts that are made to double stack brake lines on but I'm not sure how to go about plumbing in two master cylinders unless there is a check valve that will work in brake lines.

I would just eliminate the foot pedal and run 2 hand MC. Less to fail that way.

[atc007]

I have never had luck with drum brakes, even after dissembling, blasting old parts, powder/anti seize, springs the whole enchilada! I'm also spoiled by the disk brakes on sport quads/trikes/ I keep them maintained to nearly instant lockup typicaly. I just know going down hill and up hill at in some more knarly trails on a big red I've often wished the brakes were stronger.

All of my drums lock up instantly if wanted. Things that make you go,,,,,hmmmmmmmm lol.. Stretched cable? There isn't much to go wrong here lol. Knowing your abilities,I wonder what we're missing ?.To complicate things, J&M used too and probably still does,sell oversized shoes to turn the drum down. I've seen some bad ones through the years,but always just timed it one or 2 splines,adjusted for it in the cable,and wa la, perfect brakes.

[DohcBikes]

I would just eliminate the foot pedal and run 2 hand MC. Less to fail that way.It all depends on your riding style. Personally I'd eliminate any rear handbrake as I always do, I'd crash in a hurry without a foot lever!

The 300 fourtrax disc conversion looks pretty slick Louis, if nothing else it'd be a good reference for the project. Also, not a big red parts swap guru but is there any chance the 300 swingarm, or any other shaft drive swingarm bolts up to the 250es? Then just buy the conversion? Just a thought.

[userj8670]

I like drums but I feel disk brake pads, in my experience, tend to last longer. ...as an avid trail rider I'd prefer the later

[Louis Mielke]

I do believe the parts swap but honestly thats not really the direction I was hoping to head. I'm going to start with a front disk conversion and then worry about the rear.




It all depends on your riding style. Personally I'd eliminate any rear handbrake as I always do, I'd crash in a hurry without a foot lever!

The 300 fourtrax disc conversion looks pretty slick Louis, if nothing else it'd be a good reference for the project. Also, not a big red parts swap guru but is there any chance the 300 swingarm, or any other shaft drive swingarm bolts up to the 250es? Then just buy the conversion? Just a thought.

[Louis Mielke]

I've replaced cables and tried all kinds of things.This is all over several years and several different machines experience. Most of these big reds have come and gone already. I currently have purchased two, one very nice oem one that is staying that one, and then a rougher 'rider' that I'm thinking about working on this conversion for.

Mind you I do agree that the drum brakes when maintained work just fine. I just personally feel disk brakes have a much better feel and response. The drum brakes have never really instilled confidence on a STEEP downhill or hillclimb.


All of my drums lock up instantly if wanted. Things that make you go,,,,,hmmmmmmmm lol.. Stretched cable? There isn't much to go wrong here lol. Knowing your abilities,I wonder what we're missing ?.To complicate things, J&M used too and probably still does,sell oversized shoes to turn the drum down. I've seen some bad ones through the years,but always just timed it one or 2 splines,adjusted for it in the cable,and wa la, perfect brakes.

[RubberSalt]

Pffft, brakes. That stuff just slows you down. And if your not first, your last!!!


I like disc in the rear and drums adjusted somewhat loose in the front.

[Thorpe]

I would have loved disc brakes on my BR... I must have the same luck as Loius, cause no number of shoes, adjustment, spit shine or lucky rabbits feet made my old brakes anything more than marginal. Especially with the 85's and the discontinued drum seals.

[atc007]

J&M still had the drum seals last I knew. I can check for sure for anyone who needs one.

[big specht]

If you can check to see if they still have some. The other problem is that all the drums are worn out and the sealing surface is groved for the drum seal so I'm all in on a disc conversion they need it. Louis I have a trx300 disc brake conversion if you need pics for ideas on the rear

[captainweezy]

If you can check to see if they still have some. The other problem is that all the drums are worn out and the sealing surface is groved for the drum seal so I'm all in on a disc conversion they need it. Louis I have a trx300 disc brake conversion if you need pics for ideas on the rear
Exactly what 90% of the ones that come through my hands have. I can put new shoes and cables on, line up the marks and still have pretty much nothing. I am interested in this post. Louis if you need anything for your project just holler.

[atcmatt]

I'm sure I have seen a post on here about either an ES or SX with a disc conversion on the rear. Me personally have had goodluck with my BigRed brakes. Just takes a lot maintenance on the 85 rear drum with its rubbish sealing ability, though I was lucky enough to find an OEM drum seal a few years back. I had my drum trued up and turned in a lathe and it made it a lot better. Grooved shoes from EBC are a good option also. Handbrake is also a necessity on an agricultural trike like the 250es, my opinion anyway. My BigRed is still my favourite trike I own. She's slow but rides fantastically and is comfy as hell!

Matt

[big specht]

I have welded a thin peice of steel to each side of the cam to make up the drum wear. And that has worked good for us. But we still have the sealing problem and shoe wear issue

[atc007]

I can still get the oversized shoes. The O rings are gone,however i could def come up with them if there was enough need ;). The shoes are around $25 + shipping. Turn your old drum on a lathe,stuff these in,silicone where the o ring meets,and you should be good unless you're riding swamps lol.

[Louis Mielke]

I'm still working on this but I did get something accomplished. I'm going to be making a billet aluminum caliper mount, the sheet metal one is only temporary. I used the front hub that someone on facebook was selling, trying to find his name and its alluding me at the moment but here's where I'm at.

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