Will start but stalls almost right away: I'll explain more

[Newrider]

OK I hope someone can help me.. I currently bought my first bike not knowing much at the time I bought it... But it's a 200x auto x with the 200s motor I had the gaskets valve seals and piston and rings put in.i tore down the entire bike to paint and clean it up a little the header was a mess it leaked in 3 spots so I bought dg exhaust ND header for it cause that's all I could find I put everything back together and couldn't get it started so I ordered a mikuni carb for 30$ on eBay.. I don't have any experience with fixing bikes but I have tools and I'm not afraid to dive in. I'm like a professional with these pull starters considering I took it apart and rebuilt it 10 times.. OK I have a nice blue spark. I have good compression.. So now I push it throw it in gear it starts but then dies after about 20 or 30 seconds and I'm trying to keep it running.. In 1st gear it felt like it had no power.. It wasn't chocked so I pulled the spark plug and noticed it was black not wet but like a dry sooty black so I did my research and people on here say to rich but it's acting like its not getting enough fuel... Anything at this point will help ..I am stuck !!!!

[Kingcricket]

You may have nice blue spark but make sure your ignition timing is right, with your pulse generator. Make sure the Jets are right in that carb, 200s stock is 100 main and 35 pilot I think.

[Newrider]

How would I check my ignition timing?

[Ironheadtmb]

How would I check my ignition timing?

Some where in this site you can down load the manual

[arlaunch]

Get the manual for what ever year your 200X is and what ever year your 200s motor is.

The book will go into detail about setting the timing up and all the stuff.

Post back with what you found.

You can fix this easy!

Most people can't get spark. You got it!

Fuel to i sounds like.

The black is because your timing is F'ed up.

[Leevvii]

$30 Ebay carby's, as i found out recently, are a little less than desirable for the 200X's. They fit and work, but the main and pilot jets are severely underjetted for 200X, mine [ebay] came with a #95 main jet & Pilot jet #15,

standard for the 200X main jet is #110 [pre '83], #108 [for post '83], not sure on the std pilot jet, i think it is #40

my '84 200X runs #125 & Pilot jet #40 [only basic mods, not a racer].

Ive heard its an idea to use the new carby body, but replace the main jet with the ones from your original carby.

[Kingcricket]

If you ordered a carb for 200x it's probably the carb, I just ordered replacement for a 200s and it had 94 main and 34 pilot.

[arlaunch]

Carbs are very easy to clean.

They should show signs of deterioration for a long, long time before they just don't work at due to wear.

The problem is corn gas.

Try not to use corn gas in any ATV's or lawn equipment. Especially not 2 strokes.

I am lucky to have a non ethanol station 2.7 miles from my house.

Its a daunting read but have a look to see what ethanol does to our precious machines. You can do an easy search and find out why you never want to buy the stuff again. Fine for cars though.

Here is a site that has a lot of locations for non corn gas stations.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

[Newrider]

OK thanks everybody.. Just got home from work and while I was at work I watched a couple videos on how to set my ignition timing so I'm gonna give it a try now... I looked my bike up on the Honda website a couple weeks ago and it said it was a 1985 atc that's all it told me.. The engine really have no clue what year all it says on the engine is 192cm that's how I new it was a 200s motor and because it's only way to start it is this pain in the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro pull starter. I'll post updates as I move forward.. Ohh and the carb is a 200s carb not an x

[Newrider]

I just tried lining the lines up in the Cdi box with the F on the flywheel and the top black peace woulnt line up it can't move over the last 8th of an inch to line up without obstructing the case which also wouldn't work because when I tighten it down it would be jammed against the bottom line peice

[Kingcricket]

Your supposed to unbolt the plate behind your weight. It's two Phillips head bolts


Actually the plate your pulse generator is bolted to it turns left and right

[Newrider]

233629 if this pic shows up.. My thumb is showing one of 2 Philips head screws I unbolted and this is the closest I can line in up without over lapping where I would put the housing back on

[Kingcricket]

Think you better double check your cam because that shouldn't be that far over. If you're ahead a tooth your valves are off and your timing and it won't run very well

[Newrider]

Final questions, I never done this before but I'm gonna give it a go.. Do I have to pull my engine to do this ? How do I tell if my piston is all the way up?

[DohcBikes]

Don't take the engine out. You can check and manipulate the cam timing with it installed.

Who installed your valve seals, piston and rings?

[Newrider]

A friend of mine did it .. It was smoking real bad one of the rings was snapped . I asked him about the timing earlier today he said he installed it he same way he got it. So it's on me now, when I manipulate the cam after I get to it will the piston want to move as I try to center the cam to 12 o'clock?

[DohcBikes]

You aren't knowledgeable enough to do this procedure and neither is your buddy. If the cam timing is off there's about a thousand percent chance that he effed it up. If he really knew what he was doing he would have noticed the timing was off right away and fixed it. His response sounds a lot like "not my problem" to me. Contrary to implications from others you actually haven't shown enough evidence to say that it's off without doubt.

Do you have a factory service manual yet? I know you don't because the cam timing inspection procedure is clearly outlined and explained.

If you still wanna do it, get ready to take advice and follow it exactly.

Post pics of your cam sprocket index with the flywheel in the "T" position when you're ready. As in, after you've read the procedure a few times from the honda service manual.

[Newrider]

I do admit I'm not knowledgeable at all I'm just trying to learn and I'm learning each time I do something to the bike weather it be what to do or what not to do.. The link expired on the site you sent the link to but I will look to see if I can find it somewhere else.. So far I found how to get to cam

233644

[Newrider]

I'll send the pic of the flywheel with the t lined up when I get home today ty

[DohcBikes]

There's hope yet!

Here's a 200x manual. The top end procedures are nearly identical with the 200s engine.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/atc200x_83-85_servicemanual.pdf

[Kingcricket]

You can always just loses your tension on you timing chain and move your gear back a tooth on the chain. Then just line it back up with your cam and see if your timing marks are closer.

Either way there's a dowel pin on the cam for that pulse weight. And it will always be right after tdc

I've redone mine a billion types till I realized my oil pump was cracked

[Newrider]

233649 1st picture

[Newrider]

233650 2nd picture this is my timing

[Kingcricket]

Yea I'm gonna say your probably 2 teeth ahead on your timing cam. When your at the F dot on your magneto your pulse weights mark should be pretty much straight up.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a573/kingcricket/Mobile%20Uploads/DSCF4103_zpsxnzigf9z.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/kingcricket/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSCF4103_zpsxnzigf9z.jpg.html)

That should be your cam behind you pulse generator at the T Mark on your magneto. Note the dowel pin in the cam.

Both lobes on your cam should be up at this mark if not your gear is on upside down.

[Newrider]

233651 were this diagram shows a 5mm Bolt mine is missing is that a problem?

[DohcBikes]

From what I see there, you are attempting to correlate the "T" with your ignition timing. That's not what you want. With the flywheel in the position you have shown, the advancer is surely not going to line up with the pick up. This is why I asked for pictures.

First of all, the actual mark is next to the letter "t", not right on it. You see those lines with a circle at the top, those are your marks. The "T" mark is used to time the cam, and the "F" mark is used to time the ignition.

The first, short line with a circle on top, mark that comes around as you rotate your flywheel counterclockwise is the "F" mark. That's your ignition timing mark, and that's the one you need to stop on to check it.

I see that you already have the advancer retaining bolt removed from the cam. Might as well go ahead and remove the whole housing (two 8mm bolts) and start by actually checking the cam timing. Post a pic when you get the advancer housing removed.

[DohcBikes]

Ya, your buddy forgot to bolt your advancer back on, that's a problem.

Remove the advancer/timing plate housing so we can see the cam sprocket, as posted in kingcrickets pic.

[Newrider]

There was never a bolt in there it was missing??? 233652 and this is the picture and the flywheel is set to the line with the circle above the line next to the t.. How do I straighten this out now? Do I remove the little dow pin?

[DohcBikes]

Show the flywheel positioning.

There was a bolt in there at some point.

If in fact you are on the "T" mark, then yes, you need to time the cam. You'll have to unbolt the cam sprocket.

More importantly, if you are 2 or more teeth off, theres a chance you have experienced piston to valve contact.

As kingcricket mentions, in light of the previos mistakes, we now need to know if the cam lobes are up or down.

[Newrider]

233653 the right one??

[DohcBikes]

Yep.

Are your lobes up or down?

Either way, cam timing is off.

SOMETIMES you can release the cam chain tension enough to move it. Sometimes you have to remove the sprocket bolts, slide it off the end of the cam, move it, then pop it back on.

[Newrider]

233654 these 2 bolts have to get taken off.. Correct?

[DohcBikes]

Lke I said, sometimes you can get enough room by just releasing the cam chain tension. If you have to take those bolts out, don't drop them into the motor.

You didnt answer the lobes question.

[Kingcricket]

Yes then you can move your gear a couple teeth sorry for confusion

[Newrider]

I don't know how to check the lobes ... I have the little pin out and I listened the bolts.. Still every time I try moving the cam the fly wheel wants to spin.. Should I jam the flywheel?

[DohcBikes]

Oh boy.

Ya, the chain connects the cam sprocket to the flywheel. You're gonna need to remove the chain from the sprocket. Then turn the sprocket ONLY, to the position you think is the correct timing. Then bolt the sprocket back up to the cam, line up the "T" again, and verify timing.

Try to understand how frustrating it is to assist somebody that doesn't have the necessary knowledge from a thousand miles away. Post as many pics as possible and do your best to answer every question, do everything as suggested, and be patient. We're helping for free.

Noone said to remove the advancer index pin.

You loosened the bolts? Ya, you gotta remove them, as instructed. Then you gotta pop the sprocket off of the cam. Then you move the sprocket in the chain. Then you bolt it back on. Then you check again. Post pics.

[Newrider]

Even if I get the chain off the sprocket and move it 2 links the bolts don't line back up

[Newrider]

233655 I know Im a pain in the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro trailprotrailpro a tremendous help... This pic is showing the bolts the sprocket line up to.. Once I change the teeth how do I get the lined back up

[DohcBikes]

With the chain back on the sprocket, and the sprocket back on the cam, turn the flywheel until they do. The sprocket will rotate on the cam and the cam will stay put. Then put the bolts in. Then reset the flywheel to the "T" mark. Then check the cam timing again. I already explained this.

[DohcBikes]

Stick with it.

[Newrider]

Sorry I haven't posted back.. Think I got it pics to come... I had to figure it out.. But I think I got it

[Newrider]

233657 1st picture

[Newrider]

233658 2nd picture

[DohcBikes]

You're on the letter again, not the line with the circle above it. Few degrees to go to line up the mark... Looks like you might still be one tooth off or possibly the sprocket is upside down, but lets make sure. You should actually rotate the flywheel all the way around counterclockwise twice again to line it up, because you should really never rotate the flywheel clockwise. It takes up the slack in the chain and gives you a false reading.

[Newrider]

OK got it exactly like u said 233659 the other pic didn't go through but it was lined up perfectly.. Now what should I do about this missing Bolt.. Can I just pick one up from Home Depot? Not sure of the threading

[Newrider]

U have no clue how grateful I am for your help.. Thanks so much

[DohcBikes]

Now what should I do about this missing Bolt.. Find one that fits. Do you have a Fastenal in Jersey? Pretty sure it's a 6x1.0 bolt with a 10mm head, not sure of the length. Wouldn't hurt to buy a few lengths, have some extra hardware on hand. Very common metric bolt size. It also uses a washer.


Thanks so muchNo problem. Here's the 200s manual. Read and understand, and ask more questions when you need to. Don't forget to set your valve clearance per the instructions in this manual. http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/Honda_ATC185s_200_Service_Manual.pdf

Also, dont forget to torque the cam sprocket bolts (dab of loctite wouldn't hurt), and the advancer bolt. You'll have to hold the flywheel stationary to do this.

Good luck.

[Newrider]

I wanted to thank you again.. I just need to adjust my valves which I will do tomorrow after work I got the bolts like you said and I bought a whole hand full in different lengths and fit one along with a lock washer and wow the pull starter doesn't rip my arm off anymore and she started with one pull.. I must not have read about my valves yesterday but when I heard the motor ticking I came back to this thread and read the Honda shop manual.. So I'll get a feeler Gage also tomorrow.. You saved me a big headache dohcbikes.. My names mike and I thank you

[DohcBikes]

I wanted to thank you again.. I just need to adjust my valves which I will do tomorrow after work I got the bolts like you said and I bought a whole hand full in different lengths and fit one along with a lock washer and wow the pull starter doesn't rip my arm off anymore and she started with one pull.. I must not have read about my valves yesterday but when I heard the motor ticking I came back to this thread and read the Honda shop manual.. So I'll get a feeler Gage also tomorrow.. You saved me a big headache dohcbikes.. My names mike and I thank you

Hey man, that's great!

Many more threads could end up this way if people were as receptive and willing to follow directions and post pics as you are. It really helps. Not everything can be solved, but something can always be learned. It's nice to know when advice is appreciated and many these days are too proud to acknowledge it, so thank you, Mike. -Damon-