View Full Version : HONDA ATC's - did the engineers think of everything?
Big G
10-25-2016, 01:33 PM
The more I work on various years/models of HONDA ATC's, the more I notice how well designed they are. From the simple little things, to the more complex engineer feats, I am hardpressed to find something that HONDA coulda/shoulda done differently.
What are your thoughts? Have you noticed any manufacturing design flaws on any of the ATC models? Consider too the technology that was available 30 years ago...
Dirtcrasher
10-25-2016, 01:38 PM
I agree 100%. It seems Honda always strived for the best.
They always made some of the smallest changes that were remarkably genius!!
Changing things just a mm or 2.....
Hurley250R
10-25-2016, 02:13 PM
I've heard guys say that even the quality of fasteners is better on Honda vs. other Japaneese mfgs. Better threads, less strippage, better quality frames. Look at how many of the 30+ year old machines still out their running. I wonder if their craftsmanship now in 2016 is as good as the stuff was from the 80's?
Ghostv2
10-25-2016, 02:35 PM
For what they were back in the day, they were the best. Simple.
Both of my current Hondas are still on their original bore and rings. Run like a top almost 30 years later and don't even smoke. One of them being my dads 200s I was given that he bought brand new in 85'. That's my ride of choice, I take it everywhere. Nothing more reliable than my hardtail.
How many 450's will be running without their engines opened up 30 years from now? Probably only ones still in the crate lol.
Yamaha on the other hand....
AK47KID
10-25-2016, 04:57 PM
Frame design comes to mind for me. Haven't had a frame Crack on me but it will happen someday.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
tripledog
10-25-2016, 04:59 PM
The 200E and 200ES front suspension... calling it flawed would be a colossal understatement!
fabiodriven
10-25-2016, 05:48 PM
ATC 250SX, the best production bike hands down right out of the box in my opinion. So versatile, dependable, powerful, capable, yet some of the worst carburetor placement of all time. It amazes me that came from a Honda factory because most of the time I'm so impressed.
The opposite of a flaw, but rather a huge strong point of Honda in my opinion is the ability to remove the seat and rear fenders all at flick of a lever. Every time I'm working on a non-Honda I'm reminded how much of a convenience that is.
Big G
10-25-2016, 07:02 PM
...even the quality of fasteners is better on Honda... Ha ha...funny you mention that Hurley. It's while removing countless bolts on these 30+ year old machines, only to see the original yellow/gold zinc coating still as shiny as day one, that got me thinking of this thread!
Big G
10-25-2016, 07:04 PM
The 200E and 200ES front suspension... calling it flawed would be a colossal understatement! Good point Tripledog! Well there's one against Honda :(
Big G
10-25-2016, 07:13 PM
ATC 250SX...the worst carburetor placement of all time. It amazes me that came from a Honda factory because most of the time I'm so impressed.
Another good point. I just rebuild the carb in my recent 250SX purchase (thanks again for you help Jim - flyingw)...and the hardest/most time consuming part about the whole job was removing/installing the carburetor from the frame!!!
Herboso
10-25-2016, 07:13 PM
A big influence on engineering decisions is price point. I am very impressed with the quality of ATC's and how relatively cheap you could get them back when they were new. It seems dirt bikes and ATV's are relatively more expensive now than what they were back then. Maybe not. Anybody know what the dollar was worth back in the 80's?
ATC 250SX, the best production bike hands down right out of the box in my opinion. So versatile, dependable, powerful, capable, yet some of the worst carburetor placement of all time. It amazes me that came from a Honda factory because most of the time I'm so impressed.
The opposite of a flaw, but rather a huge strong point of Honda in my opinion is the ability to remove the seat and rear fenders all at flick of a lever. Every time I'm working on a non-Honda I'm reminded how much of a convenience that is.
I totally agree with everthing you wrote. The sx is a awesome machine,hands down their best all around machine,and have always wanted one. My son has a suzuki quadrunner and when ya work on it and pull the fenders i have to get a container to put the big handfull f bolts in that hold everything on. My X,flip a rod over and off it comes. And as said by others Honda is hands down the best of manufacturers. About a month ago i had to re ring my 200s,(in my area we call what you guys call a hardtail,we call bone crushers),and all i had to do was hone it,put new rings and valve seals and runs graet. Not that it didnt before freshening it up,just smoked pretty good,and it was the first time the motor was tore down.
Rob Canadian
10-25-2016, 07:50 PM
I am a Honda fan myself. As mentioned above hardware is first class. Nothing like taking a bolt out after 'X' amount of years...
I think Honda could have put a grease fitting in the swinger pivot and the rear carrier. I have a '83 200X. Seen some people having a problem getting the pivot bolt out as it is all seized up. I can see why they did not but 1 on the carrier as grease 'may' get on the rear disc. Very minor.
My snowblower and the engine on my pressure washer are Honda. :)
A big influence on engineering decisions is price point. I am very impressed with the quality of ATC's and how relatively cheap you could get them back when they were new. It seems dirt bikes and ATV's are relatively more expensive now than what they were back then. Maybe not. Anybody know what the dollar was worth back in the 80's?
No,but a brand new 1985 350x was $1800
Rob,when i had mine apart i put zerk fittings on front hub(removed seal on one side of sealed bearing,rear too)goose neck,swing arm(drilled a cpl small holes in pipe that slides over bolt and made tiny grooves the lenth of it) and rear bearings. Rear bearings were always a high wear item on all these bikes with the same bearings,been running this set for over a year,where before i was lucky to get a summer out of a set
deathman53
10-25-2016, 08:09 PM
I wish the quality of the honda bolts are the same as they used to me. I have a 2015 crf250l and half of the stock bolts are "butter" bolts, they are so easy to strip the head on, its not even funny. Maybe its just the cheap stuff for this bike, but it really put a bad taste on them. I also didn't like how half of the bolts are so over-torqued that they were hard to get out and broke/stripped the bolts. To get the bolts out that held in the rear shock I had to use impact sockets, 6 point wrench and 1/2" 500 ft/lb impact wrench. Thats wayyyyyyy too tight for anything short of something that isn't meant to ever be removed.
Rob Canadian
10-25-2016, 08:16 PM
No,but a brand new 1985 350x was $1800
Rob,when i had mine apart i put zerk fittings on front hub(removed seal on one side of sealed bearing,rear too)goose neck,swing arm(drilled a cpl small holes in pipe that slides over bolt and made tiny grooves the lenth of it) and rear bearings. Rear bearings were always a high wear item on all these bikes with the same bearings,been running this set for over a year,where before i was lucky to get a summer out of a set
Thanks. Yes I am going to do more work to mine over the winter. Any pivot or moving part should have a place to lub it. :)
tripledog
10-25-2016, 08:22 PM
Good point Tripledog! Well there's one against Honda :(
I forgot to mention the poor output of the non halogen headlight bulbs that were stock equipment on many models. One could achieve greater illumination by igniting their own flatulence.
Rob Canadian
10-25-2016, 08:30 PM
I forgot to mention the poor output of the non halogen headlight bulbs that were stock equipment on many models. One could achieve greater illumination by igniting their own flatulence.
On what model? AC or DC. (learning)
tripledog
10-25-2016, 08:45 PM
On what model? AC or DC. (learning)
I can only speak for my 200ES, but I know other models used the old round bulbs as well. The headlights on my 250ES trikes utilize an H-4 halogen bulb. As far as AC or DC goes, I haven't a clue. I'm still learning, too.
Lights without battery are ac,the stators put out ac voltage,the ones charging battery have a rectifier/ regulator,and some(like 350x)has a regulator,where the bonecrushers and 200x are straight ac voltage and the bulbs actually act as a regulator
Rob Canadian
10-25-2016, 09:06 PM
I can only speak for my 200ES, but I know other models used the old round bulbs as well. The headlights on my 250ES trikes utilize an H-4 halogen bulb. As far as AC or DC goes, I haven't a clue. I'm still learning, too.
Well as far as I know. If you have a battery the system is DC. Bulbs. My 200X does not have a battery. So my lights run on AC. Not good on the electronics if I install a DC light to my trike. AC/DC don't mix well...
Depends on the bulb. Say, a 1157 bulb dont care,but on the ac system without the regs will blow the tail light out eventually if headlight is out,LED on the other hand,wont,tho i have seen some that did. And yes if there is a battery the light are dc,but not always the ignition system,most are ac
Joseph Farrow
10-25-2016, 09:23 PM
I worked at a Honda dealer when I was in school and did set ups on new bikes. When the other manufactures came out with ATV's the dealer I worked for brought on Suzuki and later on Polaris. The quality of those were junk and the egronomics of the Honda blew them away. Everything is in it's place on the Honda. Nothing against the other Manufactures but Honda had a 10 jump on everyone else but on the other hand the others should have had their stuff right leading up to the end of Honda's 10 year lock.
Rob Canadian
10-25-2016, 09:49 PM
Depends on the bulb. Say, a 1157 bulb dont care,but on the ac system without the regs will blow the tail light out eventually if headlight is out,LED on the other hand,wont,tho i have seen some that did. And yes if there is a battery the light are dc,but not always the ignition system,most are ac
Can't mix the 2 different types is what I am saying. Yes 'it may work' but not meant to be.
I personally wouldnt do it either. I totally agree with you, i have seen it done. Personally i dont wanna keep buyin bulbs or risk poppin my stator. One of the best things i did was put the LEDs lights on,mount a battery and install a regulator /rectifier
Rob Canadian
10-25-2016, 10:16 PM
I personally wouldnt do it either. I totally agree with you, i have seen it done. Personally i dont wanna keep buyin bulbs or risk poppin my stator. One of the best things i did was put the LEDs lights on,mount a battery and install a regulator /rectifier
I rigged up a LED tail light. Then unplugged it. I don't care who is behind me. :)
LoL....Yea i dont use a tail light either. I did install a small white LED in rear tucked out of sight. Switched seperatly,i use it when we stop for a break. Just enuff light to see while b.s.ing or if ya gotta coast down a hill backwards
tripledog
10-25-2016, 10:28 PM
Can't mix the 2 different types is what I am saying. Yes 'it may work' but not meant to be.
Like Bruce Jenner in a skirt...
barnett468
10-25-2016, 10:32 PM
HONDA ATC's - did the engineers think of everything?
What are your thoughts?
Well they didn't think of a way to beat a stock "TECATE....The Most Powerful 3 Wheeler In The Universe!" with a stock 250r.
HONDA...the best bike for the "recreational" rider.
...http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif
Rob Canadian
10-25-2016, 10:34 PM
Like Bruce Jenner in a skirt...
Rumour had it. He had a Quad.
Rob Canadian
10-25-2016, 10:37 PM
Rumour had it. He had a Quad.
And balls. Why edit when I can quote myself. :)
Like Bruce Jenner in a skirt...
"Dude looked like a lady"236163
Now thats some engineering!!!
Herboso
10-25-2016, 11:07 PM
I looked up an inflation rate calculator and based on inflation over the past 30 years, a 200S would cost about $3000, a 200X would be about $3900 and a 350X $4800. I guess thats not too far off what one would expect to pay now but its hard to compare a three wheeler to anything we have now.
I looked up an inflation rate calculator and based on inflation over the past 30 years, a 200S would cost about $3000, a 200X would be about $3900 and a 350X $4800. I guess thats not too far off what one would expect to pay now but its hard to compare a three wheeler to anything we have now.
I dont want anything that has a computer or a bunch of wiz-bang gizmos....for me i like it simple.
Ghostv2
10-26-2016, 06:34 AM
I worked at a Honda dealer when I was in school and did set ups on new bikes. When the other manufactures came out with ATV's the dealer I worked for brought on Suzuki and later on Polaris. The quality of those were junk and the egronomics of the Honda blew them away. Everything is in it's place on the Honda. Nothing against the other Manufactures but Honda had a 10 jump on everyone else but on the other hand the others should have had their stuff right leading up to the end of Honda's 10 year lock.
Well from what I read on here (if true) some of hondas patents prevented some manufacturers from designing their machines in similar ways to what Honda did.
Kinda like how the YTM's have the engine towards the rear of the frame instead of sitting under the tank. But again, I never researched it to see how true this is. If you wanna start a good thread start one on how goofy some of Yamaha, Suzuki, and Polaris designed their trikes and their flaws. I got a nice list going being partial to the yellow birds myself.
schlepp29
10-26-2016, 08:06 AM
250sx and 200s are my favorites
Awwe your makin me blush glamy!! We smokem peace pipe stuffed with hippie lettuce.Us common folk up here in the woods dont even consider Filthy part of Pa....hate that sheet hole.
I agree,Honda builds the best...hands down..maybe change your post barny,oh...no edit button
I stand by my pick for prez,write in glamy on the ballot!! First order of biz as prez,take Filthy and jersey with their Chris CristyKreme donut boy and wipe it off the map,give barny a edit button...What a wonderful world it could be
Big G
10-26-2016, 11:43 AM
I worked at a Honda dealer when I was in school and did set ups on new bikes. When the other manufactures came out with ATV's the dealer I worked for brought on Suzuki and later on Polaris. The quality of those were junk and the egronomics of the Honda blew them away. Everything is in it's place on the Honda. Nothing against the other Manufactures but Honda had a 10 jump on everyone else but on the other hand the others should have had their stuff right leading up to the end of Honda's 10 year lock.
Man, to have assembled brand spanking new ATC's out of their crate! Little did you know at the time that you were a part of a ATV history!
barnett468
10-26-2016, 12:51 PM
The 3rd gen ATC 250R is the greatest atv ever made for the recreational rider........PERIOD BARN ......Barn 469 are you listening....the best better than all the rest ....better then anyone !!!!!
Yes and I agree!
...http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/laughing/graphics-laughing-867787.gif
Joseph Farrow
10-27-2016, 09:59 AM
Man, to have assembled brand spanking new ATC's out of their crate! Little did you know at the time that you were a part of a ATV history!
Never thought of it that way but I guess you're right.
My brother and I both worked there. It was kind of neat. We got to ride all of the new models before anyone. They came with a preservative sprayed on from the factory and we would ride them over to a car wash and knock that stuff off. A lot of the times we would take the long way over and back. lol
We did set ups on everything from Z50's to Gold Wings and all ATV's in between.
Big G
10-28-2016, 01:34 PM
Never thought of it that way but I guess you're right.
My brother and I both worked there. It was kind of neat. We got to ride all of the new models before anyone. They came with a preservative sprayed on from the factory and we would ride them over to a car wash and knock that stuff off. A lot of the times we would take the long way over and back. lol
We did set ups on everything from Z50's to Gold Wings and all ATV's in between.
Too bad you don't have any pics. Those vintage photo's from the 80's are awesome. Reminds me of 'the good ol' days'!
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