What happens in Vegas,,,,

[redsox]

I thought that maybe some of you would want to continue discussing this, so I started this thread. I think its good stuff, and we can probably keep it pretty civil. There are very smart, like-minded people here with VERY different views. I think it'll make good debate.


I'm not going to squabble over semantics and a few thousand pounds, that's irrelevant. Here's some science and physics for you. Pretend you saw it on the news, maybe you'll understand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNzaMRsN00&t=193s

John, the science (or lack thereof) in this guys "experiments" is laughable. What did he use for scale? Oh ya, thats right. He used whatever he had lying around his garage. Call the people over at the Nobel Prize commission, we have a new candidate. Thats would have been a D+ in my high school physics class, at best, and I went to a school that had a reputation for molestation, so you can guess the quality of their sciences.

I'll talk 9/11 if you want, but i do generally avoid it in conversation, much the same way that you described i the other thread. But i'll break my own rules here and discuss. My goal though, isn't really to rehash 9/11, but to point out the same general blueprint used to make everything bad into a "conspiracy." This vegas event is current, and a PRIME example of such. So much so that before there even was an "official story" the watchdogs were out yelling "COVERUP!"

So, lets stick with 9/11. But, instead of me defending every derived notion of match sticks and firecrackers, let me volley the ball back. Explain the ticket sales to the hijackers. Explain the video of them boarding the planes. Explain the flight school attendance. Explain the rental cars. Explain the calls home from people on the plane. Explain the videos and zillion eye witness accounts of the planes bashing into the buildings. Explain to me who exactly the people are that have been shooting back at our military for the past 15 years. Explain to me the bodies on the USS Cole. Explain to me Eyad Ismoil, and the 1993 bombing of the trade center. Is radical Islam a myth? Ask Jeff Bauman if he believes in radical Islam because he saw it on the news. Or Martin Richard's father.

[redsox]

I still believe it's just some lonely kook who likes to choke/rape high end hookers.

Maybe I'm wrong.......I've been wrong before

I don't think that it was, but i'm not opposed to the possibility that it was. Thats the difference.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

ON the whole 9-11 thing, I lean toward believing that it was in fact terrorist hijackers. I'm not saying we have been told the whole story, but like I said before, it's so hard for us to know who to believe when we don't have first hand knowledge. People lie, the government lies, it's very hard to know who is giving it to us straight. No, jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt structural steel, but it any interior structure fire generates plenty enough heat to alter it's integrity. Ask any firefighter how hot the inside of a burning building gets. It certainly isn't like they portray it in the movies, people walking around in a burning building coughing occasionally. The heat alone is enough to instantly cause irreversible damage to your lungs and kill you. It gets hot enough that smoke will itself ignite, called flashover, which occurs usually north of 900 deg Fahrenheit. Normal everyday items found in our homes burn hot enough to cause this. Jet fuel raises the bar and I believe certainly hot enough to negatively impact the steel weakening it. We use heat to manipulate steel in our shops every day.

IMHO, Dan raises good questions that are hard to ignore. How long after 9-11 did we see some people in the middle east celebrating their victory wearing shirts depicting the burning towers? Not sure why they would celebrate it if they had nothing to do with it, much less if our own government did it. Do I believe our government is corrupt and full of liars?? Absolutely. Am I ready to take that leap and sign onto the belief our own government with the help of who knows how many of our own fellow citizens perpetrated 9-11??? No, I can't say I'm there. We can all argue till the cows come home that much of the middle east hates us because we meddle in things that we shouldn't. That is a subject that can be debated. But I'm not sure about the war for oil assertion either. I don't know about you all, but I never experience a huge drop in energy prices during or after the war that I would expect if we were really there for the oil and got it. Matter of fact, it was during the last years of GWB and early in BHO administration that gasoline went over $4 per gallon if I recall correctly... Where is the oil we went there to get?? Yes, fuel prices are lower now, but for what reason?? Last I knew the first major drop in crude we experienced 3 or 4 years ago was due to the Saudis increasing production massively, probably to drive competing countries out if the oil business but who knows, that's another debate in and of itself.

Back to the towers: I am not a structural engineer. Just a regular guy looking at this as a regular guy would. It seems to me that when enough load bearing steel beams weakened under the weight of the floors above them, collapsing straight down seems right to me. What would anyone expect??? For it to topple over like a tree that has been face cut and felled? (something I DO know a little bit about). Gravity wins, it's the single strongest and never dying force in the universe, and the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. I don't see any other way those towers would fall unless manipulated to do so and at great length.

I'll be straight honest here. A big part of the reason I have a hard time swallowing the "9-11 was an inside job" pill is due to some of the more prominent figures who promote it, chiefly among them being Micheal Moore. I can't stand that man or anything he claims to stand for. He is in my opinion a fraud and a radical socialist, neither of which I feel are good for our country. He is to me no different than Napoleon the pig from Animal Farm. So there's that....

John, I still count you a friend and I hope you understand that just because I may not quite see these things the same as you I would never hold it against you. I know you are a person who does more than his share of thinking and I know you don't assert things you don't truly believe in. As always, I respect your service and thank you for it.

All said and done, both sides of this issue call the other blind or asleep... I don't really know if that's fair to say. What I would like to know is what we are supposed to do if that big truth bomb is ever dropped and the 9-11 thing does turn out to be confirmed to be a cover up? What then?? I vote every election, locals included. I'm not sure what else we are to do??? Storm DC???? I don't think that will end well... I know we are living very hard and precarious times... I fear for my kids.

[knappyfeet]

I don't think that it was, but i'm not opposed to the possibility that it was. Thats the difference.

When this first started happening me and my click instantly thought it was a diversion.......after all Vegas is a money town.

Then the thought turned quickly to a terrorist attack......middle eastern type.

But when the dust settled and we found out it was an old white guy......a 65 year old retiree.....living in Misquite MV...... in a 55 and up community with his "honey ko" it was all disbelief.

We will never know a rational reason "why" he did what he did. It was evil. People are evil. This guy was evil. The logistics and what not.....all the people coming out...the choked hooker, the friend down under and even from his honey ko and her sister.....nothing really seems abnormal. He talked down to some...whatever. He like firearms and the 2nd amendment...that's everyone here.

Could he carry all this out with no help? Of course. He was an accountant by trade and education. There is no guessing or happenstance with them. Everything is leveraged and hedged and risk is evaluated for success or not a success....all by percentages. Outcomes are never guessed....it's more outcomes will be evaluated by performance for accuracy.

All the reservations around the country at similar events??.......test runs or a diversion. He knew all this would be scrutinized by the authorities. Sometimes it's just evil be evil. Who knows.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I agree, what happened in Vegas seems very fishy to me as well.

[knappyfeet]

Why the 3 or 4 other incidents of shots fired at the same time in other casino`s ?

Everything seems fishy when you view it through fishy lenses.......

Don't confuse reports of what someone thought were gunshots.......... with actual confirmed gunshots........ anybody can say anything but it doesn't make it so unless it's confirmed.

You go to the strip.......it sounds chaotic all the time.

I'm going to Vegas this weekend

[3 Wheel Drive]

I'm going to Vegas this weekend


https://youtu.be/7mSyA1fGE9k

[sledcrazyinCT]

So Las Vegas Police will hold another press conference on Friday this week to bring the public the latest developments in Paddock's motives......media is already trying to push this to the back page......meanwhile I still get emails about 31 ISIS camps in America funded by 44's FEMA some just a stone throws away from Vegas.....Hate to admit but there will never be closure with this event....gosh darn it two RINOS last week have asked POTUS Trump to finally declassify the JFK assassination....that only happened a half century ago and we still have conflicting reports of what occurred....leave it the FEDS to give it to you straight every time:wondering

[knappyfeet]

If you got over an hour to kill this police dispatch recording is very interesting.

In it.......reports of gunfire from multiple locations....multiple shooters.....a weirdo in an RV by Motel 6........ and my personal favorite.......a speeding black gmc dulley speeding away from the Luxor. They cleared all the other reports except the dulley......who knows.

https://youtu.be/1xAcTKNpDeY

I got peeps in Metro I'll be with

[atc007]

This is a very short clip of this video. There are many others. It will be taken down most likely. It is live as of now. You couldn't take Thorpes first hand account of what happened. Explain this please Knappy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg2-GvvxTaY

[knappyfeet]

You couldn't take Thorpes first hand account of what happened. Explain this please Knappy?

I can't explain that in an authoritive educated manner.

I don't question what Thorpe heard.....people hear everything and anything. If I remember his post correctly I had the impression Planet Hollywood was under assult and that wasn't accurate.

But....by the sound on that video there seems to be 2 different sounds and different pitches.....indicating to me impact sounds and muzzle firing sounds. In fact if you focus right before the shooting you hear a high "pop".......what seems like an impact pop followed by the sounds of the gun......about a half a second. With the fact that the bullet will travel 3 times faster than the sound it makes sense to hear that first impact pop followed by the lower frequency firing pop. Why intermittent? Maybe he was all over with his aiming or hitting people vs concrete/dirt/rocks/etc??....I really don't know. This is my guess.

[redsox]

No, that's two different guns firing at 2 different rates. The first one is definitely not fully automatic but likely assisted by a bump stock because the rate of fire on that weapon is not stable. The bigger question, if I were questioning, would be is there a possibility of this video having audio added to it.

Before anyone calls me an armchair expert because they can't stand anyone having experience they've never had, yes I have fired semi, full auto, and bump fire equipped weapons many times. I grew up immersed in gun culture and know what I'm hearing.

i thought this thread was dead. My intention was never to go all-in on 9/11 but thats what happend. oh well. Damon, excellent post. If i'm gonna shite on you when you post nonsense i've got to credit you when you contribute. The added audio is something thats never discussed but i often consider.

[Dirtcrasher]

Well - The timelines are all wrong.

1) Where is the video of him checking in or bringing stuff in? IT'S VEGAS!! Cameras everywhere!!

2) Where is the live, - Live recordings and or people streaming the show, recording the show; Even just audio....?? There's some out there but not nearly enough. WTF!!??

3) Why did he shoot the security guard if it was before the spree?? He had cameras, he knew his plays right?? He was just starting the killing spree according to the Mandagetlaid timeline....

4) So far this shooter is as clean as a whistle..... ( SO why!!?? use this white no problem, non activist or hater, as the scapegoat?? Why not a bearded Hyadji?? Why this loaf??).

4A) Why no ALLAH AKBAR!! I mean that's what the government wants us afraid of. Young bearded AK47 Osama Lovin Brother!!

5) Big lack of video on much of this and lots of fake/ edited material out there.

6) Left his gloves on to kill himself?? I can understand blood flowing under a bullet case but gloves??

7) If timing is right, I guess every damn gun jammed because he had killed himself before they came through the door.....

Are they gonna just use CGI's and then release what they want us to review and believe?? DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, chit doesn't ad up......

AGAIN!!

[Thorpe]

Everything seems fishy when you view it through fishy lenses.......

Don't confuse reports of what someone thought were gunshots.......... with actual confirmed gunshots........ anybody can say anything but it doesn't make it so unless it's confirmed.

You go to the strip.......it sounds chaotic all the time.

I'm going to Vegas this weekend

Chaotic yes, but for the 3 days prior that I was there, I wasn't getting shot at. You don't confuse a pos taxi's exhaust with gun shots inside. Or the broads scantily dressed trying to take pics, or the people handing out cards, or trying to sell you crap every few feet. Yeah it's busy, real busy, but gun shots inside of a casino, there is no mistaking that. I don't think I heard shots. I know I absolutely heard shots. I am not some millennial snowflake who scares easily. I spend a lot of time at the range, in the woods, at the reloading bench... It's one of the few hobbys I am truly passionate about. I spend countless hours reading about them, watching videos on them and a decent amount of time working on them. So knappy, you don't think a casino would have the financial motives to not want the negative publicity surrounded by gun shots in their casino? I am a sarcastic bullshitter, but by no means am I a liar. And I don't take kindly to anyone insinuating that I am...

[redsox]

Thorpe, I hope you don't think for one second that I was even insinuating that you were being anything but honest. If i came off that way I apologize. I was merely trying to make sense of it. Theorizing. I still can't see how someone shoots into a crowd from ground level and docent hit anyone. That leads me to believe it was return fire. just a theory. i'm open to others.

[atc007]

Thorpe, I hope you don't think for one second that I was even insinuating that you were being anything but honest. If i came off that way I apologize. I was merely trying to make sense of it. Theorizing. I still can't see how someone shoots into a crowd from ground level and docent hit anyone. That leads me to believe it was return fire. just a theory. i'm open to others.

Actually,,,,they hit almost 500 people... Piles of videos,some showing the shooters spraying the crowds,,,Thorpe was there,,,,but there is something for you to try and figure out? WTF are you so scared of ???!!!! Time to try out this ignore list thing. Good luck with everything sox.

[Scootertrash]

It's interesting to watch their plan working right before my eyes.The very people who claim to be intellectually superior and trying to save everyone, actively participating in making the division deeper and wider.


Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity-Frank Leahy

[Thorpe]

It's interesting to watch their plan working right before my eyes.The very people who claim to be intellectually superior and trying to save everyone, actively participating in making the division deeper and wider.

Scooter- you seem like my kind of people... Hit me up sometime when you are by Cabelas, I got a beer for you.... (And a story!)

[Scootertrash]

Which Cabelas?

[Scootertrash]

when at last the work is done don't sit down its time to dig another one

Or tear down and move on to the next gig? Consuming oil, fuel, and crappy overpriced junk food on the way.

[Scootertrash]

I've listened to preachers, I've listened to fools, I've watched all the dropouts who make their own rules.

[Scootertrash]

No, this thread is about Vegas, not 9/11. The 9/11 thread was locked.

You've been told to move on by being banned multiple times, but you still keep coming back to stir the pot. You coy little attempts to take the high road don't work anymore.

For the rest of you, I'll add some more tonight or tomorrow.

[Thorpe]

Which Cabelas?

Rogers....!

[redsox]

Actually,,,,they hit almost 500 people... Piles of videos,some showing the shooters spraying the crowds,,,Thorpe was there,,,,but there is something for you to try and figure out? WTF are you so scared of ???!!!! Time to try out this ignore list thing. Good luck with everything sox.

Thanks Double O. I need all the luck I can get. Although sadly I don't believe in luck. i do believe in sarcasm though, and I'll ignore yours because you misunderstood what I said. I wasn't saying no one was hit at MB, i'm talking about PH. Thorpe said he didn't see anyone hit down there, but he did hear shots. I was just theorizing about where they went, and discussing possibilities. I don't know what happened in Vegas. I'm not claiming to know. This may come as a shock to you, but you don't know either. If you want to ignore discussion in favor of ideology, then you're free to do so. But, you'd just be proving my point about conspiracy theorists and their unwillingness to objectively look at a situation.

[Thorpe]

I also said I didn't hang out to play detective... I grabbed my wife's hand and we made tracks as anyone would do

[Scootertrash]

Rogers....!

:O

Did you move?

[El Camexican]

Sarcasm. I notice you and a couple others didn't catch on. Not surprised.

It was a response to the mention that this thread was dead, and a sarcastic reference to the ability of Americans to forget about tragedies while the lawmakers rape you into a grave.

The ability to be recognized as sarcastic requires that you first be recognized as semi-intelligent. In your case that ship sailed sometime back, hit an iceberg and sunk, so bear with us as we attempt to understand your wit.

[El Camexican]

If I'm an expert on anything LSD is definitely on the list.

Finally we can agree on something.

[El Camexican]

Thorp, i'm going to be in Vegas in a few weeks and I hope I can stop into planet Hollywood and lose a little bit of money. I can usually get pretty friendly with the dealers, so I hope at some point I can casually mentioned that I know someone who is here when the shooting took place and see what kind of reaction I get. Should be interesting, even if it's only a wink or nod.

[El Camexican]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Good thing I didn't mention the Exxon Valdez, you'd have a blown a nut.

[knappyfeet]

Thorpe said he didn't see anyone hit down there, but he did hear shots. I was just theorizing about where they went, and discussing possibilities.

Las Vegas police had multiple reports of shots fired at 10 casinos at the same time..........all of the strike team's found negative shots fired. Could that possibly be true? (Sarcasm)

[sledcrazyinCT]

So now the security guard that approached Paddock is missing? Reports says the wounded guard checked into a hospital four days ago but the medical center has no record of him even checking in let alone being treated. Ironic little has been said by LEO yet they changed the time line of when guard approached Paddock's room...


247138

[Scootertrash]

Why does the u.s. have these mass shootings? Because the aftermath is always a rush to BAN guns.

The answer lies not in guns but in ammunition.


FIFY

So if we were to go by your original statement, are you suggesting that gun manufacturers are behind all of the mass shootings?

If you were really "immersed" in the gun culture like you claim, you'd know that there was no big uptick in firearms purchases nor did gun or ammo prices skyrocket after this shooting. Although bump stocks sold out for awhile.

Or are you being sarcastic again?

This was nothing more than "Fast and Furious Part Deux, Viva Las Vegas"

Your ANTIFA comrades were relishing in the fact that a bunch of racist, white, Southern folk were injured or killed. Doesn't matter who did it or why. Peace thru violence, right?

[Scootertrash]

Actually,,,,they hit almost 500 people...

AAAaaaannnnddd this is where the misinformation and the reason people spout "conspiracy!" starts. 500 people weren't hit. 500 people were injured FFS, the media reports it that way on purpose, because THEY KNOW that a large portion of the population will start saying 500 were shot instead of 500 injured. I had coworkers saying that very thing. :rolleyes: I will also guaranf'ntee you that they are including every little bruise, skinned knee and broken fingernail as an "injury". Can't have rookie numbers if you wanna ban guns.

I swear, some of you who claim to have it all figured out can't see the forest for the trees.


How many injuries do you think there were due to being trampled, pushed or knocked down, etc, etc? You know, the types of injuries received when pandemonium ensues in a large crowd?

[Thorpe]

Thorp, i'm going to be in Vegas in a few weeks and I hope I can stop into planet Hollywood and lose a little bit of money. I can usually get pretty friendly with the dealers, so I hope at some point I can casually mentioned that I know someone who is here when the shooting took place and see what kind of reaction I get. Should be interesting, even if it's only a wink or nod.

Swing into the PBR restaurant, or past the ABC store and ask...

[Thorpe]

:O

Did you move?

Yep... from M.G. to the Rogers...

[redsox]

Las Vegas police had multiple reports of shots fired at 10 casinos at the same time..........all of the strike team's found negative shots fired. Could that possibly be true? (Sarcasm)

Yes. I do think that it could be true. (not sarcasm)

[redsox]

So if you look at the timelines ........all of the "other" incidents occurred at or around 10pm ........how does that happen without choreography .........just like the pie piper led rats through the streets ......swaying to the symphony ....of destruction .......your acting like a robot ........what did they do ?........call the shooter and say what time is good for you ????? GTFO OF HERE !

Nope. I don't know about the timeline. Nor do I know about choreography. I know I don't like the crap being fed to you by the fake news. I do think that the authorities are doing a good job of not looking like idiots in this case. (I stress IN THIS CASE) They're doing so by limiting the information they release until they can gather the facts and investigate what happened. You see, one of two things can happen, and they both lead to conspiracy theory.
Example:
1. Authorities rush to get information out to the clamoring masses and they are wrong about what they report. Cries of "CONSPIRACY!" ensue.

2. Authorities investigate appropriately, gather facts, interviews, analyze crime scenes, etc.. and information is slow to come out. Cries of "CONSPIRACY!" ensue.

Either way you get what you want. As far as shots from ten casinos is concerned, i'll explain. Calls into the dispatch center explode. Hundreds if not thousands. They go as follows;

CALL #1
DISPATCHER: "911, what is your emergency?"
Concerned Citizen #1: "Theres a shooter blasting people!"
DISPATCHER: "Where are you ma'am"
Concerned Citizen #1: "I'm at mandalay bay"
DISPATCHER: "Help is on the way."

CALL #2
DISPATCHER: "911, what is your emergency?"
Concerned Citizen #2: "Theres a shooter blasting people!"
DISPATCHER: "Where are you sir"
Concerned Citizen #2: "I'm at the Luxor"
DISPATCHER: "Help is on the way."

Call #3
DISPATCHER: "911, what is your emergency?"
Concerned Citizen #3: "Theres a shooter blasting people!"
DISPATCHER: "Where are you ma'am"
Concerned Citizen #3: "I'm at Players Club"
DISPATCHER: "Help is on the way."

CALL #4
DISPATCHER: "911, what is your emergency?"
Concerned Citizen #4: "Theres a shooter blasting people!"
DISPATCHER: "Where are you sir"
Concerned Citizen #4: "I'm on Frank Sinatra Blvd"
DISPATCHER: "Help is on the way."

All the same shots, all heard by people in the area, all called in. Turn on your local police scanner and listen, you'll hear the same thing every day.

[bkm]

I know I'm bought and paid for by the man, but I'll give an example of a shooting scene I worked a few months back.

A disgruntled millennial trust fund gentleman decided he'd break into dads gun cabinet while consuming mass quantities of alcohol and his normal dosage of anti psychotics.

He had an AR and about 500 rounds of ammo. He decided to walk into his back yard, and shoot up the back of his house. I work in a densely populated suburb of St. Louis. 7k people crammed into 1.5 square miles. No high rise buildings, all residential.

We received calls immediately from the neighbors, then while in route, started receiving calls from literally three blocks away of an active shooter. The elementary school is two blocks over to the west. We received three calls from teachers behind the school on recess of shots being fired directly behind the school, which would be even further away from where the actual gun fire was coming from. They had a three story brick building in between them and where the gunfire was actually coming from and they heard it coming from the wrong direction.

We thought we had multiple active shooters throughout the town, but turns out it was one drink idiot, mad at his parents who decided to shoot up the back of his house.

Perception is reality to all of us at first. Your ears and eyes do in fact play tricks on you and if I've learned anything in 12 years of being a police officer, over 50 percent of the time, the caller into the 911 dispatchers are completely wrong or hear or see something completely different than it actually happened.



Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[El Camexican]

So was he charged with attempted homeicide? Hopefully he goes to jail, putting him under house arrest wouldn't be fair to the victim.

[bkm]

So was he charged with attempted homeicide? Hopefully he goes to jail, putting him under house arrest wouldn't be fair to the victim.Unlawful use of a weapon, property damage, and discharging a weapon within city limits. He was the only one home.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[bkm]

Well that may be but Thorpe said he heard shots .........so if swat or security were firing blanks in the casino ........why ? ......Thorpe knows what guns sound like and he doesn't appreciate people telling him otherwise .Don't know, wasn't there, and won't speculate. My little story was just to say things don't always happen how people report them related to 911 calls. I can't and won't speculate on what Thorpe saw or heard.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[knappyfeet]

Well that may be but Thorpe said he heard shots .........so if swat or security were firing blanks in the casino ........why ? ......Thorpe knows what guns sound like and he doesn't appreciate people telling him otherwise .

All the posts I made concerning what he heard or may have heard may have come off as me "questioning it" and that is true.......but I never thought he "made it up" or was a millenial snowflake who was ignorant to the sounds of gunshots. Especially since so many heard it at so many different resorts...all at the same time.

To me it was always whether one believes law enforcement or not. So knowing folks at metro for many years and how they found negative shots fired at the various locations and their current methodical ivestigation into this shooting..........the question is do I believe them or not....and I do.

Edit.......we are going to be at Gilleys in a couple weeks glamy.....you there?

[El Camexican]

Edit.......we are going to be at Gilleys in a couple weeks glamy.....you there?

At TI? Weekend of Nov. 10, 11 & 12?

[Scootertrash]

Well, now Campos the security guard is back in the spotlight. But is it really Campos? Maybe a government planted body double after Campos was "disappeared"? Or was the real Campos kidnapped and brainwashed with a government narrative to coverup an Illuminati plot?

The world may never know...........

[Scootertrash]

Worst troll ever.

Just because you don't like hearing the truth doesn't make it trolling. Get over yourself

[El Camexican]

Very surreal to be here. Lots of Vegas Strong shirts and banners, but the topic is the elephant in the room that no one is talking about. Not a single word. The lights are all still on and the party is still going. The longer it takes for the video of him stocking that room take to be made public the more this stinks. I hope some of the lawsuits force the hotel to show how this was possible.

247523

[atc007]

The sheeple swallowed it hook line and sinker. There were public posts on the internet Sep 30 warning to stay the hell outta Vegas the next 2 days as ISIS was going to attempt an attack. My nephew is back home from a 12 day stay at the MB . He had a full SEMA build entered this year.

[86T3]

The sheeple swallowed it hook line and sinker. There were public posts on the internet Sep 30 warning to stay the hell outta Vegas the next 2 days as ISIS was going to attempt an attack. My nephew is back home from a 12 day stay at the MB . He had a full SEMA build entered this year.

I'm not being a dick, just asking so I know, what is the play here? Why do you think someone or some group pull this off and blame it on the one guy?

[Scootertrash]

The sheeple swallowed it hook line and sinker. There were public posts on the internet Sep 30 warning to stay the hell outta Vegas the next 2 days as ISIS was going to attempt an attack. My nephew is back home from a 12 day stay at the MB . He had a full SEMA build entered this year.

Swallowed what h,l &s?

Who made the public posts? Got a link?

[El Camexican]

Leave 007 alone ........if you swallow whatever the media spews thats your foogen problem ......Einsteins ........the reason you won`t "get" the correct narrative is the lawsuits .....HUGE LAWSUITS are still pending .......today you only get information on a "need to know basis" .......cupcake ! .........there`s so much going on with this that stinks out fecking loud......reality Queens ? ........who know`s ? ........Metro know`s .........you don`t ..... so fackoff !!!!

No one's picking on anyone. 007 implied that the waters of truth were chummed and a few folks would like to know what the main course on the hook will be. Maybe its time to see a dermatologist Glamy, judging from the thickness of your skin you may have contracted Liberalillitis.

[sledcrazyinCT]

Nothing has been making MSM news on this shooting that happened weeks ago so not sure there is even an official narrative yet? Figures the public will be kept in the dark because Corporate interests have their lawyers tying up processing what occurred.

[86T3]

Glamster, I honestly wasn't picking on him. I'm curious what the explanation is. I'm open minded, i want to know what others are thinking

[Scootertrash]

Leave 007 alone ........if you swallow whatever the media spews thats your foogen problem ......Einsteins ........the reason you won`t "get" the correct narrative is the lawsuits .....HUGE LAWSUITS are still pending .......today you only get information on a "need to know basis" .......cupcake ! .........there`s so much going on with this that stinks out fecking loud......reality Queens ? ........who know`s ? ........Metro know`s .........you don`t ..... so fackoff !!!!

247552

247553


miss yer wake and bake this morning punkin?

all glamnado up in here?

[fabiodriven]

I can't claim to speak for Bill, but I would imagine he's unlikely to provide any information anymore because regardless of what information is provided, the vast majority on here are unable to see where the truth resides.

[sledcrazyinCT]

So why all the jokes, for real WTF happened:wondering No one is spilling the beans aside from Thorpe, and govt ain't even attempting to dish a narrative.
Jesus Campos had a trip already planned to Mexico so they decided it was kosher to let him leave the country for a siesta, then the only scoop interview he provides is to ELLEN?

Where is the 24/7 coverage of this massacre? DJT makes a face like he sharted yesterday holding hands in the Philippines and that is all you need to know bout Merica....we got zero background on Paddock after how many weeks?

[86T3]

I honestly want to know what the alternative theory is here.

[bkm]

I honestly want to know what the alternative theory is here.One theory I heard was Paddock was an FBI operative setting up a gun buy to ISIS. They killed him, then proceeded with the terrorist attack. That theory came from Rosie O'Donnell on the Howard Stern show last week. Not out of the relm of possibilities I guess?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Scootertrash]

One theory I heard was Paddock was an FBI operative setting up a gun buy to ISIS. They killed him, then proceeded with the terrorist attack. That theory came from Rosie O'Donnell on the Howard Stern show last week. Not out of the relm of possibilities I guess?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

That theory was bouncing around a couple of days after the shooting, she didn't come up with it herself.

The reason there's no narrative from the MSM is because the shooter doesn't fit the progressive left wing media agenda: a white privileged Christian gun owner shooting up some disenfranchised minority group or children.

And the media is silent about the black on black massacre in Chicago.

Where are all of these reports of lawsuits coming from? Post some links. Lets see some sources.

[Scootertrash]

I can't claim to speak for Bill, but I would imagine he's unlikely to provide any information anymore because regardless of what information is provided, the vast majority on here are unable to see where the truth resides.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BlEo8PQChG4#

The REAL truth will never be known

[Scootertrash]

Buy more guns!!!!

I agree. There's some really great deals out there right now. Prices have never been better.

[El Camexican]

One theory I heard was Paddock was an FBI operative setting up a gun buy to ISIS. They killed him, then proceeded with the terrorist attack. That theory came from Rosie O'Donnell on the Howard Stern show last week. Not out of the relm of possibilities I guess?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

That would imply that the bad guys walked out the front door of MB after they finished shooting and that none of the other alleged street level shooters hit a single person?

That's a dry biscuit to swallow. As we say down here: "Give that bone to some other dog"

[El Camexican]

How bout dat ?............Hockey puck !

Or maybe…

Bin Laden (cuz we know he’s not dead) was brought to America by the CIA in a luxury shipping container and rented one of those Vegas tour helicopters with a CIA credit card, killed all the guys inside dressed like Elvis, commandeered the chopper and lowered a rope down to the hotel window and scooped the real shooters up and off to safety while other terrorist type guys ran around the streets of Vegas firing blanks (wouldn’t want to hurt anyone) to keep everyone else from looking up at the sky.

Then the guys on the street causing all the distraction jumped into UBER’s and took off without ever getting caught on CCTV or anyone’s cell phone. They then instructed the UBER guys at gun point to disable their GPS phone features and drive them out to Area 51 where reverse engineered American flying saucers took all the evidence to the Moon in less than 5.2 giggaseconds and hide it inside the Moon's hollow structure where it will be melted with thermite. The UBER drivers were then anally probed and had their short term memories erased before being sent home.

George Soros came up with the idea in 2015, but when Hillary lost the election he had to give the plans to Putin who then blackmailed Trump into allowing it to go down by means of a pee tape made by the KGB. Trump, not willing to expose his wife as a transvestite, agreed to allow it to go down providing that the CIA would make Pena Nieto stop saying that Mexico won’t pay for the Wall.

Don’t believe me? I don’t care, you’re blind to reality and incapable of understanding what’s really happening!!!

247557

Go Jets!:Bounce:Bounce:Bounce

[bkm]

Or maybe…

Bin Laden (cuz we know he’s not dead) was brought to America by the CIA in a luxury shipping container and rented one of those Vegas tour helicopters with a CIA credit card, killed all the guys inside dressed like Elvis, commandeered the chopper and lowered a rope down to the hotel window and scooped the real shooters up and off to safety while other terrorist type guys ran around the streets of Vegas firing blanks (wouldn’t want to hurt anyone) to keep everyone else from looking up at the sky.

Then the guys on the street causing all the distraction jumped into UBER’s and took off without ever getting caught on CCTV or anyone’s cell phone. They then instructed the UBER guys at gun point to disable their GPS phone features and drive them out to Area 51 where reverse engineered American flying saucers took all the evidence to the Moon in less than 5.2 giggaseconds and hide it inside the Moon's hollow structure where it will be melted with thermite.

George Soros came up with the idea in 2015, but when Hillary lost the election he had to give the plans to Putin who then blackmailed Trump into allowing it to go down by means of a pee tape made by the KGB. Trump, not willing to expose his wife as a transvestite, agreed to allow it to go down providing that the CIA would make Pena Nieto stop saying that Mexico won’t pay for the Wall.

Don’t believe me? I don’t care, you’re blind to reality and incapable of understanding what’s really happening!!!

247557

Go Jets!:Bounce:Bounce:BounceThis was going to be my next theory, but you kinda stole my thunder.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[El Camexican]

This was going to be my next theory, but you kinda stole my thunder.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Don't hold back if you have additional details. I'm still trying to figure out how the Jets' losing to the Knights on the 10th by three points figures into this :shiftyeyes:

[El Camexican]

See that Luke ..........you`re learning..........but Luke i`m not your father ! .......go Browns !

I knew you'd come around if I laid it all out in a clear and orderly manner :beer

[El Camexican]

Not so fast Brotein shake .........Whats you`re narrative ? ........now i`m going swimming but I`LL be back to spam the board later ......

Cool go soak your melon and then bring it on! :lol: I have a theory, but you won't like it. Will post later.

[El Camexican]

Here’s my theory, feel free to tear it up, I don't mind a debate.

Older guy starts aging and realizing he’s done nothing worthwhile in his life aside for make money and party, no kids, no wife, just a mail order GF, booze and gambling to keep him company.

He either gets upset with something or someone and decides he’s going to go out with a bang and be remembered forever in Vegas. He may even have found out he was terminally ill, or lost his ability to raise a flag. He has no one besides his brother and GF to leave behind, so it’s not like he’s ruining his kid’s lives. He likely prides himself on being “smart” and decides to scatter clues that lead nowhere all over the place. Additional weapons left in cars, multiple hotel rooms and no notes or trace evidence. The kind of stuff that really messes up cops as most cases are solved by someone ratting someone else out, or the perp being incredibly stupid. To leave almost no clues behind furthers the legend of the incident, i.e. JFK, D.B. Cooper and such. If you have a decent IQ and want to be remembered as long as possible this is the way to do it.

So he starts stock piling weapons and moving them into a room based on knowledge of a venue that would be within shooting range. He may have even thought it would be possible to escape and do more damage, but after he started shooting and the adrenalin started to wear off he realized that he was trapped in the hotel, or maybe he even felt some remorse for what he’d done and decided to eat lead. He really should have jumped out the window for his grand finally, but was likely too sacred to do it as he was obviously a coward.

I believe the reason we aren’t seeing video of him stocking the room is purely legal. The Hotel is going to be sued multiple times over this as will any and every one that might have unwittingly assisted this guy from arms dealers to bell hops. Once the court dates come around I think there will be lots of video shown.

Multiple shooters? Sorry guys, I stood on the strip between Mandalay Bay and Planet Hollywood and there are all kinds of glass buildings that would echo the sound of shots in multiple directions if they originated up high. Without a clear video of someone shooting from ground level, photos of bullet holes in a wall, or even a spent casing on the sidewalk I’m not buying it. If anyone had good video they would have sold it to the highest bidding news outlet by now. Our eyes and ears can play tricks on us and even more so when there's a lot going on at once.

Pretty boring theory eh? Just some old loser with more time on his hands than he knew what to do with selfishly taking out innocent people in a last ditch effort to become relevant and leaving all kinds of pain and misery behind. He could just as easily donated time or money to a worthwhile case, but then we’d never have heard of him, right? Seems that on this day and age only aresholes and nut jobs get to be famous.

[knappyfeet]

Here’s my theory, feel free to tear it up, I don't mind a debate.

Older guy starts aging and realizing he’s done nothing worthwhile in his life aside for make money and party, no kids, no wife, just a mail order GF, booze and gambling to keep him company.

He either gets upset with something or someone and decides he’s going to go out with a bang and be remembered forever in Vegas. He may even have found out he was terminally ill, or lost his ability to raise a flag. He has no one besides his brother and GF to leave behind, so it’s not like he’s ruining his kid’s lives. He likely prides himself on being “smart” and decides to scatter clues that lead nowhere all over the place. Additional weapons left in cars, multiple hotel rooms and no notes or trace evidence. The kind of stuff that really messes up cops as most cases are solved by someone ratting someone else out, or the perp being incredibly stupid. To leave almost no clues behind furthers the legend of the incident, i.e. JFK, D.B. Cooper and such. If you have a decent IQ and want to be remembered as long as possible this is the way to do it.

So he starts stock piling weapons and moving them into a room based on knowledge of a venue that would be within shooting range. He may have even thought it would be possible to escape and do more damage, but after he started shooting and the adrenalin started to wear off he realized that he was trapped in the hotel, or maybe he even felt some remorse for what he’d done and decided to eat lead. He really should have jumped out the window for his grand finally, but was likely too sacred to do it as he was obviously a coward.

I believe the reason we aren’t seeing video of him stocking the room is purely legal. The Hotel is going to be sued multiple times over this as will any and every one that might have unwittingly assisted this guy from arms dealers to bell hops. Once the court dates come around I think there will be lots of video shown.

Multiple shooters? Sorry guys, I stood on the strip between Mandalay Bay and Planet Hollywood and there are all kinds of glass buildings that would echo the sound of shots in multiple directions if they originated up high. Without a clear video of someone shooting from ground level, photos of bullet holes in a wall, or even a spent casing on the sidewalk I’m not buying it. If anyone had good video they would have sold it to the highest bidding news outlet by now. Our eyes and ears can play tricks on us and even more so when there's a lot going on at once.

Pretty boring theory eh? Just some old loser with more time on his hands than he knew what to do with selfishly taking out innocent people in a last ditch effort to become relevant and leaving all kinds of pain and misery behind. He could just as easily donated time or money to a worthwhile case, but then we’d never have heard of him, right? Seems that on this day and age only aresholes and nut jobs get to be famous.

Finally!!...............a logical realistic theory.

El gets it.............I didn't know you were in vegas? We were in Boulder City for the weekend. I could have drove to the strip and dodge all the gunfire from Dick Cheney and holla at my nigga

[fabiodriven]

...and they all lived happily ever after.

[El Camexican]

Finally!!...............a logical realistic theory.

El gets it.............I didn't know you were in vegas? We were in Boulder City for the weekend. I could have drove to the strip and dodge all the gunfire from Dick Cheney and holla at my nigga

Stayed at the Monte Carlo in order to make the walk to the hockey arena as short as possible. I do not recommend that hotel to anybody by the way. The blackjack tables were very kind to me, enough so that we’re thinking about going back for Christmas. The venetian has a great deal on right now for The holidays.

[El Camexican]

...and they all lived happily ever after.

Till the next guy snaps. Seems it’s becoming an epidemic, there’s no way guns are going away so I hope People will eventually stop thinking that this is some sort of a way out, or a way to prove a point that nobody gives a sh*t about besides them.

Maybe some sort of law that says if you do something stupid like shoot up a school, church, or a concert that your direct family has to do the time if they haven’t reported you to the authorities in advance of your murderous spree. Maybe that would make some of these idiots think twice before they pull the trigger.

[fabiodriven]

Laws (or lack thereof) are not the problem in this country, nor are they the solution.

[El Camexican]

Laws (or lack thereof) are not the problem in this country, nor are they the solution.

I agree. Mental illness due to an abundance of leisure time, an obsession with material goods, resistance to inevitable change in society and basically a life of entitlement from birth would be my guess at why some people snap for no reason. If people actually had to work their butts off to get every scrap of food they put into their bellies there would be a lot less time to be beating wives, abusing drugs and scheming up ways to ruin other people’s lives.

I could go on for hours, but maybe we’ll get a chance to finish this around a campfire one day.

[El Camexican]

Lack of purpose, that was what I wanted to say. I think a lack of purpose leads to depression and in some cases a lot worse. We’re worker bees, but we figured out how to get fat, dumb and greedy and it breaks some of our brains.

[fabiodriven]

Nico, as a person diagnosed with mental issues who doesn't work and suffers from depression, I have no choice but to wonder how much of what you're saying is directed at me. If I'm mistaken in that feeling, my apologies. If I'm not and you're attempting to profile or somehow align me with what you believe was a demented mass murderer...

[Thorpe]

Here’s my theory, feel free to tear it up, I don't mind a debate.

Older guy starts aging and realizing he’s done nothing worthwhile in his life aside for make money and party, no kids, no wife, just a mail order GF, booze and gambling to keep him company.

He either gets upset with something or someone and decides he’s going to go out with a bang and be remembered forever in Vegas. He may even have found out he was terminally ill, or lost his ability to raise a flag. He has no one besides his brother and GF to leave behind, so it’s not like he’s ruining his kid’s lives. He likely prides himself on being “smart” and decides to scatter clues that lead nowhere all over the place. Additional weapons left in cars, multiple hotel rooms and no notes or trace evidence. The kind of stuff that really messes up cops as most cases are solved by someone ratting someone else out, or the perp being incredibly stupid. To leave almost no clues behind furthers the legend of the incident, i.e. JFK, D.B. Cooper and such. If you have a decent IQ and want to be remembered as long as possible this is the way to do it.

So he starts stock piling weapons and moving them into a room based on knowledge of a venue that would be within shooting range. He may have even thought it would be possible to escape and do more damage, but after he started shooting and the adrenalin started to wear off he realized that he was trapped in the hotel, or maybe he even felt some remorse for what he’d done and decided to eat lead. He really should have jumped out the window for his grand finally, but was likely too sacred to do it as he was obviously a coward.

I believe the reason we aren’t seeing video of him stocking the room is purely legal. The Hotel is going to be sued multiple times over this as will any and every one that might have unwittingly assisted this guy from arms dealers to bell hops. Once the court dates come around I think there will be lots of video shown.

Multiple shooters? Sorry guys, I stood on the strip between Mandalay Bay and Planet Hollywood and there are all kinds of glass buildings that would echo the sound of shots in multiple directions if they originated up high. Without a clear video of someone shooting from ground level, photos of bullet holes in a wall, or even a spent casing on the sidewalk I’m not buying it. If anyone had good video they would have sold it to the highest bidding news outlet by now. Our eyes and ears can play tricks on us and even more so when there's a lot going on at once.

Pretty boring theory eh? Just some old loser with more time on his hands than he knew what to do with selfishly taking out innocent people in a last ditch effort to become relevant and leaving all kinds of pain and misery behind. He could just as easily donated time or money to a worthwhile case, but then we’d never have heard of him, right? Seems that on this day and age only aresholes and nut jobs get to be famous.

Well Canexico-- I can appreciate your insight, and am glad you were able to retrace some of my steps (safely!) Well there is a lot of glass and areas for noise to bounce off of down the strip. There is an issue I still see in your theory, the shooting at MB, (supposedly by Paddock) was done (dead) by the time I heard shots at PH. Also, these were not muted shots from 4 blocks away, bouncing down the strip, thru the noise to where I could hear them thru the glass doors, they were 25 feet behind me, inside... (For what it's worth)

[El Camexican]

Nico, as a person diagnosed with mental issues who doesn't work and suffers from depression, I have no choice but to wonder how much of what you're saying is directed at me. If I'm mistaken in that feeling, my apologies. If I'm not and you're attempting to profile or somehow align me with what you believe was a demented mass murderer...

Wow! No, not directed at you at all, nor anyone else on here.

I do however know a number of people who suffer from depression and have had suicidal issues. All of them have been able to survive either unemployed, or under employed and none have kids or even hobbies. In fact a few had interesting hobbies and dropped them as the depression became worse.

Two of my grade 12 class mates killed them selves within a year of graduating and a third schoolmate, brother of a friend, took out himself and his ex leaving his kid behind a few years later, I talked with him just a few days before he did it, so I’ve known a few troubled people.

If you and I need to clear the air let’s do it off line, but please don’t go to bed tonight thinking I’m calling you or anyone else on here a mass murderer.

[fabiodriven]

Oh no worries at all Nico, that's why I said I apologize for even thinking it. I just wanted to ask to be sure. My perception of interactions with other people can sometimes be askew.

[El Camexican]

Well Canexico-- I can appreciate your insight, and am glad you were able to retrace some of my steps (safely!) Well there is a lot of glass and areas for noise to bounce off of down the strip. There is an issue I still see in your theory, the shooting at MB, (supposedly by Paddock) was done (dead) by the time I heard shots at PH. Also, these were not muted shots from 4 blocks away, bouncing down the strip, thru the noise to where I could hear them thru the glass doors, they were 25 feet behind me, inside... (For what it's worth)

You were there, I wasn’t. Just wish there was something more tangible to add to your recollection.

I looked for videos today and couldn’t find anything that was clear enough to be believable. Lots of people talking about hearing shots in different casinos, but not a single video of a shooting.

That said this past weekend 8 out of every 10 people I saw were screwing around on a phone. I just can’t believe that no one had a camera on when the shots started and that with all those big glass windows and doors there are no photos of any broken glass.

Guns emit bullets and even if they were shooting blanks where did he casings go and why would anyone risk firing blanks in a town full of armed guards and cops? Not one hero firing back at all those alleged shooters? Not one broken window and not a single casualty outside of the concert? It just doesn’t seem possible.

[El Camexican]

Oh no worries at all Nico, that's why I said I apologize for even thinking it. I just wanted to ask to be sure. My perception of interactions with other people can sometimes be askew.

Good! Now let’s talk about all those negative Yamaha comments you’ve made LOL!

[stoshu]

You were there, I wasn’t. Just wish there was something more tangible to add to your recollection.

I looked for videos today and couldn’t find anything that was clear enough to be believable. Lots of people talking about hearing shots in different casinos, but not a single video of a shooting.

That said this past weekend 8 out of every 10 people I saw were screwing around on a phone. I just can’t believe that no one had a camera on when the shots started and that with all those big glass windows and doors there are no photos of any broken glass.

Guns emit bullets and even if they were shooting blanks where did he casings go and why would anyone risk firing blanks in a town full of armed guards and cops? Not one hero firing back at all those alleged shooters? Not one broken window and not a single casualty outside of the concert? It just doesn’t seem possible.

Did you swing by the memorial? Crazy silent there. Changed my life.

[El Camexican]

Did you swing by the memorial? Crazy silent there. Changed my life.

Did not. Didnt even think about it. Probably should have.

[86T3]

I swear, i wasn't trying to troll or bring this debate from the dead, i jist wanted to know what the motive was if this was staged.

[Bren_downe]

Lack of purpose, that was what I wanted to say. I think a lack of purpose leads to depression and in some cases a lot worse. We’re worker bees, but we figured out how to get fat, dumb and greedy and it breaks some of our brains.

The Gringonadian isn't the only one with this theory. Sebastian Junger wrote a book called "tribe" that supports this thinking.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iurXFfNriyg

[atc007]

Haven't been around in a while fellers. The warning was posted on an Anonymous site. I realize this answer comes late,but it really doesn't matter. Do I know who,why or where the shooters were? Nope. Was I there? Nope. Do I know some that were? Yep? Is ANY part of the last rendition of the medias story I heard a sane explanation? Nope. Do I care?...Welll,it gets harder every day :) FWIW. Fabs hit the nail on the head,and I didn't read past there.

[El Camexican]

I swear, i wasn't trying to troll or bring this debate from the dead, i jist wanted to know what the motive was if this was staged.

Unless you’re willing to fill in the blanks with a conspiracy crayon there doesn’t seem to be one offered up on here.

[El Camexican]

The warning was posted on an Anonymous site.

My wife continues to tell me the same thing daily. She also keeps telling my NK is going to take out the US power grid, California is going to slide into the Ocean, China, Venezuela, Iran and Russia are colluding to devalue the dollar. A Sunflare is going to take us all out. Aliens took the Malaysia plane that disappeared and are holding it ransom until world leaders give up their nuclear weapons and on and on. Search pretty much anything you want to see and the Internet will provide, including predictions and warnings of all kinds. And every once in a while one of them will be right and people will flock to see it.

I’m sick of it.

The fact is the world has been ending ever since somebody wrote it would on a cave wall. There’s always somebody trying to spread fear on this planet and there is always been somebody that will believe it. The Internet has just amped it up a gazillion percent and it really makes me sad to see how many people are drinking his Kool-Aid and missing out on the simple joys that this life offers.

I’m not saying that humanity isn’t doomed to disappear from the face of the earth one day, be it from natural disaster or by our own hands, I’m just saying that anybody who’s going to sit around and worry about it happening is wasting their lives.

FYI, when the Narco thing was at its peek here people were posting up warnings about where there would be shoots, kidnappings and other events, many near my home. Not one singe time did any ever happen as advertised, but when it did a week, or even a month later someone would always say "Someone tried to warn us!". Then a warning with a date on November 1st became something people would be concerned about for the following two months. There were restaurants and bars that literally closed up over this all because someone with nothing better to do posted it up on social media.

[El Camexican]

My purpose is to question you`re purpose ..........and you`re purpose is to run around and talk down your nose at people as if you know something that they don`t ! ......and my purpose is to make you feel as uncomfortable as possible with your insanity about being somebodies BIOTCH for lousy paycheck ! ........you`re just a little out of line .........but i still love you hockey puck .........the slap-shot and he SCORE`S ..........i think it`s insane to lump people in as worker bee`s ..........i worked hard so i could retire at 50 so i wouldn't have to listen to people like you that think you need to be their biotch over money ...........fack all of that .........the only thing thats depressing is your analogy about life .......my purpose is to get you to try DMT ......and then you can come back and tell me what my purpose is..............

Sorry you feel that way Glamy. I enjoy a good debate, but not at the expense of pissing off people I consider friends, so I guess this is adios unless someone wants to talk about trikes, bikes or hockey. :beer

[ironchop]

.......my purpose is to get you to try DMT ......and then you can come back and tell me what my purpose is..............

It's turtles all the way down, my friend.



https://youtu.be/6gBV-Nzq7Pg

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[bkm]

It's turtles all the way down, my friend.



https://youtu.be/6gBV-Nzq7Pg

Sent from my Z958 using TapatalkModern day Waylon Jennings.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[ironchop]

Modern day Waylon Jennings.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Yeah especially in this song......

https://youtu.be/tNV16tz1NK0

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[bkm]

Yeah especially in this song......

https://youtu.be/tNV16tz1NK0

Sent from my Z958 using TapatalkThe dude is really growing on me. I'm a tough nut to crack music wise, especially my Twangin music.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[ironchop]

The dude is really growing on me. I'm a tough nut to crack music wise, especially my Twangin music.

Sent from my SM-G900V using TapatalkI despise pop country. ...Him, Chris Stapleton, Cody Jinks, and a few other 'obscure' artists is all I listen too

What's really messed up is that Sturgill HAS A GRAMMY and doesn't get played on 'country' radio

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[bkm]

I despise pop country. ...Him, Chris Stapleton, Cody Jinks, and a few other 'obscure' artists is all I listen too

What's really messed up is that Sturgill HAS A GRAMMY and doesn't get played on 'country' radio

Sent from my Z958 using TapatalkI like Jamey Johnson too.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[tripledog]

Thanks for sharing the videos, ironchop! Never heard of Sturgill until today, but I sure want to hear more. And I will.
I am stuck here with no beer, one truck with a shot catalytic convertor, another with a broke dick alternator, and yet another (third time's a charm) that needs a new cam chain and vvt actuator. On the brighter side, I may just have prime ingredients for concocting a country song...

[fabiodriven]

Bryan likes Damon.

[bkm]

Bryan likes Damon.I sea what you did there

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[El Camexican]

The dude is really growing on me.

Let's get that posted up permanently before someone has an edit button moment.

[bkm]

Let's get that posted up permanently before someone has an edit button moment.I didn't use a capital D, doesn't count.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Scootertrash]

My wife continues to tell me the same thing daily. She also keeps telling my NK is going to take out the US power grid, California is going to slide into the Ocean, China, Venezuela, Iran and Russia are colluding to devalue the dollar. A Sunflare is going to take us all out. Aliens took the Malaysia plane that disappeared and are holding it ransom until world leaders give up their nuclear weapons and on and on. Search pretty much anything you want to see and the Internet will provide, including predictions and warnings of all kinds. And every once in a while one of them will be right and people will flock to see it.

I’m sick of it.

The fact is the world has been ending ever since somebody wrote it would on a cave wall. There’s always somebody trying to spread fear on this planet and there is always been somebody that will believe it. The Internet has just amped it up a gazillion percent and it really makes me sad to see how many people are drinking his Kool-Aid and missing out on the simple joys that this life offers.

I’m not saying that humanity isn’t doomed to disappear from the face of the earth one day, be it from natural disaster or by our own hands, I’m just saying that anybody who’s going to sit around and worry about it happening is wasting their lives.

FYI, when the Narco thing was at its peek here people were posting up warnings about where there would be shoots, kidnappings and other events, many near my home. Not one singe time did any ever happen as advertised, but when it did a week, or even a month later someone would always say "Someone tried to warn us!". Then a warning with a date on November 1st became something people would be concerned about for the following two months. There were restaurants and bars that literally closed up over this all because someone with nothing better to do posted it up on social media.

Thanks for posting some common sense.

Also:

How many of the Anonymous doomsday predictions have come true?
Yes, including this one (Las Vegas). Who said it was a ISIS/Muslim extremist attack?

Wait. Let me guess..........Anonymous?

Keep being distracted. All the while they're taking more and more.......................................and more.......................

[El Camexican]

Thanks for posting some common sense.

Also:

How many of the Anonymous doomsday predictions have come true?
Yes, including this one (Las Vegas). Who said it was a ISIS/Muslim extremist attack?

Wait. Let me guess..........Anonymous?

Keep being distracted. All the while they're taking more and more.......................................and more.......................

Christ almighty Scooter, I said I was out, but seeing as you posted...

I went looking for the Internet warning Bill posted about. These are some of what came across. Seems there was a guy that sort of predicted something like this would happen, but apparently other people from that site said he made a lot of predictions and likened one coming true to winning the lottery. I mean to judge no one here, but would invite anyone thinking this was a coherent warning to at least read the snopes links and question why anyone with forehand knowledge would post it on an obscure site and for what purpose.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/02/hoaxes-fake-news-about-las-vegas-massacre/

https://www.snopes.com/4chan-user-prediction-las-vegas-shooting/

https://www.snopes.com/woman-warned-las-vegas-shooting/

https://www.snopes.com/2017/10/12/conspiracy-theories-las-vegas-mass-shooting/

[sledcrazyinCT]

Sorry you feel that way Glamy. I enjoy a good debate, but not at the expense of pissing off people I consider friends, so I guess this is adios unless someone wants to talk about trikes, bikes or hockey. :beer

Glamy just wants people to find their inner DMT.....
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gkkpd/dmt-you-cannot-imagine-a-stranger-drug-or-a-stranger-experience-365

[El Camexican]

Glamy just wants people to find their inner DMT.....
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gkkpd/dmt-you-cannot-imagine-a-stranger-drug-or-a-stranger-experience-365

I went to Mexico for two weeks... 18 years ago. I can’t risk a 30 minute “trip”

[Scootertrash]

Christ almighty Scooter, I said I was out, but seeing as you posted...

I went looking for the Internet warning Bill posted about. These are some of what came across. Seems there was a guy that sort of predicted something like this would happen, but apparently other people from that site said he made a lot of predictions and likened one coming true to winning the lottery. I mean to judge no one here, but would invite anyone thinking this was a coherent warning to at least read the snopes links and question why anyone with forehand knowledge would post it on an obscure site and for what purpose.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/02/hoaxes-fake-news-about-las-vegas-massacre/

https://www.snopes.com/4chan-user-prediction-las-vegas-shooting/

https://www.snopes.com/woman-warned-las-vegas-shooting/

https://www.snopes.com/2017/10/12/conspiracy-theories-las-vegas-mass-shooting/

One of Anonymous's videos talks about how people were shocked, shocked I say, that someone could predict the Las Vegas incdent within MERE WEEKS of it happening.

Throw enough sh!t at the wall and eventually something will stick.

Undercover arms deal? With ISIS? Of course. Everybody knows the best way to conduct and illegal arms deal is to cart 20 firearms and massive quantities of ammo up 33 floors of a very public building with (allegedly) security cameras that record everything, as opposed to some clandestine spot in the desert just outside Terlingua.

You conspiracy guys want an ISIS connection? What if I told you a very rich Saudi Arabian guy with (allegedly) ties to and funding of terrorism owns the top three floors of Mandalay Bay?

And Paddocks "girlfriend" wasn't mail order, it was his neighbors ex-wife, IIRC

[El Camexican]

It`s plain to see that they are interested in our BULGES !...........FOXES ! .......there`s an overall lameness of Mexico it`s kind of like a 50`s Greaser mentality ...........it`s got to be frustrating to live there........criminals rule the roost....... but i love them because of they`re Catholic values ........the churches are amazing architecture........their approach to pharmaceuticals and doctors commendable ....... but sooner or later frito bandito has their way with you .......and thats not acceptable ........oh and they`re driving -NO RULES ......no lanes .....oh did i hit you .....oh so sorry.........gringo plates ? .....i own you .......:lol::Bounce:lol::Bounce:lol::Bounce:lol::B ounce:lol::Bounce:lol::Bounce:lol::Bounce:lol::Bou nce they cut the heads off and put `em on the hood .....dat way you learn holmes ....... I can take the trolley and be in Mexico in a 1/2 hr. every day if i want:wondering:wondering:cry::cry: where did all the rubble go ?????? .......you and Scootershit should have intercorse

Chu don like it, den give it back puto

247595


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iJMOBcPQyg

[ironchop]

Speaking of sassy Canadians....

https://youtu.be/Zdeo-i6uw5g



Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[tripledog]

I actually recommend Ayahuasca ........the 12 hr. kind along with the mentoring of an established Shamen .........and a spotter..........and you will meet the alien .......oh you can also experience "it" in an isolation chamber ......so......are you experienced ......have you ever been experienced .......well i have .......Jimmy Hendricks

You should work at tripadvisor...

[fabiodriven]

Speaking of sassy Canadians....

https://youtu.be/Zdeo-i6uw5g



Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

I've been into Monster Truck for a few years now since I saw them open for Alter Bridge. We made fun of them at first, I'd never heard of them before we saw them that day, but they won me over before the show ended.

This particular song is one of my "put the goddam radio to full blast now" songs. Great post Doug.

[Caminofeld]

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7b1kzk/the_las_vegas_shooting_and_the_mass_arrests_in/

Plus the trail of bodies of witnesses that described multiple shooters...

And the helicopter extraction from the rooftop...

And yes, MANY people were shot (I have friends that work in the Vegas trauma centers)...

An anon posted on the Chan prior to shooting that something heavy was gonna go down...

Sounds fishy to me...

[Caminofeld]

Oh, and don't forget that Jesus DeCampos disappeared right before an interview that never happened with multiple news agencies and resurfaced a few weeks later for his only interview on the Ellen show...and Ellen is a paid rep for MGM...and another MGM rep/witness was right next to him the whole time coaching him...basically saying "remember to say what we told you"...

[Dirtcrasher]

I've been into Monster Truck for a few years now since I saw them open for Alter Bridge

Man I saw them n the late 90's and they were all crazy.

Your CLOSE and it's LOUD!!

The event I went to; Grave Digger took an extra bounce and landed upside down trapping a few people in their chairs, it sucked...

Maybe it was Worcester Stadium....

Anyhow, those seats shouldn't be sold!!

[Scootertrash]

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7b1kzk/the_las_vegas_shooting_and_the_mass_arrests_in/

Plus the trail of bodies of witnesses that described multiple shooters...

And the helicopter extraction from the rooftop...

And yes, MANY people were shot (I have friends that work in the Vegas trauma centers)...

An anon posted on the Chan prior to shooting that something heavy was gonna go down...

Sounds fishy to me...

From my post #142:


You conspiracy guys want an ISIS connection? What if I told you a very rich Saudi Arabian guy with (allegedly) ties to and funding of terrorism owns the top three floors of Mandalay Bay?

;) :naughty: :beer

But remember these are all just theories at this point. But extremely plausible.

[Caminofeld]

I know they're all just theories, but the sad thing is these sorta make more sense than the often-contradicted "official" story. I think what is the most concerning and raises the most questions is the lack of transparency.

That Reddit article kinda blew my mind (even though I disagree with a few points he makes). Smart guy and definitely worth a read and a share...

:beer

[Scootertrash]

Oh I'm right there with ya. I was following the Saudi round-up when it was happening thru posts on reddit and 4 chan. Not completely personally, alot was second hand. Those sites can be hard to navigate and following the posts get crazy.

[fabiodriven]

Man I saw them n the late 90's and they were all crazy.

Your CLOSE and it's LOUD!!

The event I went to; Grave Digger took an extra bounce and landed upside down trapping a few people in their chairs, it sucked...

Maybe it was Worcester Stadium....

Anyhow, those seats shouldn't be sold!!

I was talking about a band called Monster Truck Steve, lol. Good post nonetheless!

[Scootertrash]

Now that's funny!

[sledcrazyinCT]

Man I saw them n the late 90's and they were all crazy.

Your CLOSE and it's LOUD!!

The event I went to; Grave Digger took an extra bounce and landed upside down trapping a few people in their chairs, it sucked...

Maybe it was Worcester Stadium....

Anyhow, those seats shouldn't be sold!!

I was talking about a band called Monster Truck Steve, lol. Good post nonetheless!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQpoSNCpwLU

Here is some awesome driving skill

[Dirtcrasher]

See how much I miss out on!! :lol:

Steve sheepishly says, "I still like those monster trucks...."

[El Camexican]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQpoSNCpwLU

Here is some awesome driving skill

I could do that if I had a monster truck.... and 1,000,000 X more driving skills!

Something went wrong here at a show in Mexico City a couple years back and when they tested the driver they found out that he was drunk and high on coke. I believe they charged him with manslaughter. I don’t know what happened to cause the accident, usually there are people on the sidelines with remote controls that can shut the trucks down when they get out of control.

[86T3]

I ran a "quad wars" event during a monster truck event in October, it was trikes vs quads. Every time the monster trucks went out they tested the emergency cut off. One truck flipped over during the finale and the other 2 trucks that were on the track were immediately shut off. That's terrible that there was an accident at the show, you would have thought the safety feature were good enough by now.

On a lighter note, that was my first time seeing monster trucks live and I was shocked. Like Steve, i also l like those monster trucks

[ironchop]

I ran a "quad wars" event during a monster truck event in October, it was trikes vs quads.


Soooo ... who won the war?

(Please say trikes)


Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[redsox]

Soooo ... who won the war?

The superior machines won. Naturally. ;)

[86T3]

It was completely fake but we had a blast, the crowd loved it. When "the heel" said trikes were dangerous and should be outlawed someone in the crowd yelled out "F#*÷ YOU !It was hilarious

https://youtu.be/r8IKAN5Iu8g

https://youtu.be/QKQm8gHRcKk

[sledcrazyinCT]

Still very little info regarding Paddock. Retired Vegas police officer is attempting to get answers from former coworkers and no one is saying a whole lot. MGM still hasn't allowed investigators and legal teams of victims enter the room. The retired cop also asked why the 40 man SWAT team was never deployed that evening.
248422

[Scootertrash]

Here's a list of the firearms (allegedly) found in his room:


32nd Floor – Room 32-135 – Main Room

Make Model Serial Number Description
1) Colt M4 Carbine LE451984 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. Front sight only.
2) Noveske N4 B15993 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 40 round magazine. EOTech optic.
3) LWRC M61C 24-18648 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
4) POF USA P-308 UA-1600204 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.
5) Christensen Arms CA-15 CA04625 AR-15 .223 Wylde with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
6) POF USA P-15 PE-1600179 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
7) Colt Competition CCR014544 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
8) Smith & Wesson 342 AirLite Ti CDZ7618 .38 caliber revolver with 4 cartridges, 1 expended cartridge case.
9) LWRC M61C 5P03902 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. EOTech optic.
10) FNH FM15 FND000905 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.
11) Daniel Defense DD5V1 DD5007426 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.
12) FNH FN15 FNB024293 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. EOTech optic.
13) POF USA P15 03E-1603178 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. EOTech optic.
14) Colt M4 Carbine LE564124 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine.
15) Daniel Defense M4A1 DDM4123629 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. EOTech optic.
16) LMT Def. 2000 LMT81745 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
17) Daniel Defense DDM4V11 DDM4078072 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip. No magazine. EOTech optic.
18) Sig Sauer SIG716 23D020868 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, red dot optic and 25 round magazine.
19) Daniel Defense DD5V1 DD5008362 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod and scope. No magazine.

32nd Floor – Room 32-134 – Hotel Room
Make Model Serial Number Description
20) FNH FN15 FNCR000383 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock, vertical fore grip and 100 round magazine. No sights or optics.
21) Ruger American 695-93877 .308 caliber bolt action rifle with scope. LMT LM308MWS
22) LMS18321 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod and red dot scope. No magazine.
23) Ruger SR0762 562-13026 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.
24) LMT LM308MWS LMS18300 AR-10 with a bipod, scope and 25 round magazine.

So 14 AR-15 type weapons All with Bump Stocks and 7 without sights.

8 AR-10 type rifles all with scopes or Red Dot

I want to know how many of them were fired.


Out of the 500 killed /injured, approx 225 were from gunfire. (Trying to find the article)

Here's a shocker: They've just announced that they found kiddie porn on some of his computers. How convenient. I'm not necessarily saying it's not true, but it is rather convenient.

More tidbits here:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-19/child-porn-found-vegas-shooters-computer-new-photos-show-grizzly-hotel-room-scene


Las Vegas Shooting LVMPD preliminary report. Pics start on page 54. WARNING!! THERE ARE SOME PICS OF THE DECEASED SHOOTER DEAD IN THE BACKGROUND. Just wanted to warn you guys in case some have weak stomachs. ;):

https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1_October_FIT_Report_01-18-2018_Footnoted.pdf

[redsox]

I got my letter last week. It came from the secretary of public safety. In Massachusetts, thats the highest appointed Law Enforcement Official. He's right under the Governor. So, the letter says that if I own a bump stock or trigger crank it is now illegal and must be turned in. Furthermore, the letter states that it is now illegal to sell or transfer such a product. Lastly, it specifically states that I received this notice because I have a valid License to Carry. I'll scan a copy of the letter and post it. To me, it just shows me that the liberals WOULD absolutely come to your house and take your guns if they could. I have always been a proponent of registration and licensing. Something I am wavering on.

[fabiodriven]

Cause and effect. Once someone starts seeing the outcomes of these situations, the agenda becomes very clear (if there is one). It answers "why" there may be deception and cover up and can lead you in the direction of those with vested interests.

[Scootertrash]

I got my letter last week. It came from the secretary of public safety. In Massachusetts, thats the highest appointed Law Enforcement Official. He's right under the Governor. So, the letter says that if I own a bump stock or trigger crank it is now illegal and must be turned in. Furthermore, the letter states that it is now illegal to sell or transfer such a product. Lastly, it specifically states that I received this notice because I have a valid License to Carry. I'll scan a copy of the letter and post it. To me, it just shows me that the liberals WOULD absolutely come to your house and take your guns if they could. I have always been a proponent of registration and licensing. Something I am wavering on.

Do you think registration and/or licensing would have prevented this incident? ETA: meaning the Las Vegas shooting

Do you think that the local thugs and gangbangers are getting these letters too?:wondering

[3 Wheel Drive]

I can’t read page 12

[Scootertrash]

I can’t read page 12

I think that's from when Dumbsh!t had all of his posts yanked. I'm not seeing a page 12 on my screen.

[redsox]

Do you think registration and/or licensing would have prevented this incident? ETA: meaning the Las Vegas shooting

Do you think that the local thugs and gangbangers are getting these letters too?:wondering

No. I do not think it would have prevented the Vegas shooting. Nor do i think the gangbangers get letters. I do believe in licensing, as i've said before, but i know its not a perfect system. I was wrong about the changes in the New Hampshire laws. I'm not taking a hardline anywhere, other than the Government should not be able to come into your house and confiscate your property.

[Scootertrash]

Jus so ya know sox, I'm not trying to be a dick, just trying to get a feel for why some think that licensing is some sort of solution to ANY gun "problem".

You were just shown one of the main problems with licensing/registration. "They" know you have a gun or guns by requiring you to acquire a license to protect yourself My state does the same thing.

How f'ed up is that? My state has what is called "Duty to Retreat".


Acting in Self-Defense is a valid defense to an assault charge. It is important to know that in Minnesota you have a duty to retreat, prior to defending yourself or others. The Duty to Retreat means that you must attempt to retreat, where practical, from the threat before responding with reasonable force.

That means if you wake up some night to someone in your house and they threaten you with a gun, knife, whatever, you have duty to retreat before you defend yourself. Try to get out of a door and run away, basically. That's even more f'ed up. If your out for a night on the town and someone tries to rob you, you have to try to run away before you defend yourself. W in T ever lovin' F?

Registration?

You know that form you fill out when you buy a gun? The 4473?


The dealer also records all information from the Form 4473 into a required "bound-book" called an "Acquisition and Disposition Log.[5] A dealer must keep this on file at least 20 years, and is required to surrender the log to the ATF upon retirement from the firearms business. The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of, the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation. In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five-day period must be reported to ATF on Form 3310.4.

Do you really think the .gov doesn't have a record of gun purchases? :naughty: :wondering ;)

So what issues will Registration/Licensing solve?

[El Camexican]

Duty to retreat?

As an AC DC fan I prefer Shoot to thrill

[Scootertrash]

Even better(?) is the fact that if, in the process of protecting yourself you kill the attacker, the family can file a civil case against you for damages lost because even tho the attacker was breaking the law, he was using the money to support his (or her) family. That's as f-ed up as a football bat.

You ever notice how when one of these thugs get their just rewards for being well, a thug, the family always claims "(insert name) was jus turnin' his life 'round and was a 'spirin' rap artist, yo", and all of the pics the media puts in their propaganda are pics of when they were little kids, never the pics you find on their Fakebook page of them throwing gang signs, doing drugs, etc? That is if you check out their Fakebook page before everything is deleted. ;)

[ironchop]

....

Registration?

You know that form you fill out when you buy a gun? The 4473?

Do you really think the .gov doesn't have a record of gun purchases?....

I been trying to tell people this for 20 yrs. and all I get is a blank stare.

That's why "private sale background checks" are so important to them. That is all they would need to close the registration loophole left open from them tracking purchases thru FFLs while everyone is distracted fighting an actual gun registration push. Meanwhile, at The Back Door........

"It's not registration, it's just a background check. Just common sense!"

BTW, all my papered firearms always get sold thru an FFL so there's a trail leading to me and a trail leading away from me for this very reason.



Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[redsox]

Jus so ya know sox, I'm not trying to be a dick, just trying to get a feel for why some think that licensing is some sort of solution to ANY gun "problem".

You were just shown one of the main problems with licensing/registration. "They" know you have a gun or guns by requiring you to acquire a license to protect yourself My state does the same thing.

How f'ed up is that? My state has what is called "Duty to Retreat".



That means if you wake up some night to someone in your house and they threaten you with a gun, knife, whatever, you have duty to retreat before you defend yourself. Try to get out of a door and run away, basically. That's even more f'ed up. If your out for a night on the town and someone tries to rob you, you have to try to run away before you defend yourself. W in T ever lovin' F?

Registration?

You know that form you fill out when you buy a gun? The 4473?



Do you really think the .gov doesn't have a record of gun purchases? :naughty: :wondering ;)

So what issues will Registration/Licensing solve?

The Government does have a record, but, believe it or not(sarcasm), its disastrously incorrect. It is better now in the digital era than it was in the paperwork days because less people are involved in the process. In the old days, (1990's) in Massachusetts, we were on a system referred to as "the blue card system" where each firearms sale was recorded on a blue card and the card was sent into Boston. Well, it was someones job to organize and record the information on said "blue cards." But, not shockingly, the senators nephew, or whatever crony hack nepotism hire was in that position, didn't do his job and literally hundreds of thousands of "blue cards" went into storage. The result is that nearly every single law abiding gun owner that owned a gun in Massachusetts before the digital system now owns a gun(s) of which the Government is unaware. Secondly, the tracking system has no checks and balances. Example- Lets say I bought a gun in 1993 from a store, and it went into the system. Then, in 1994 I sold the gun to Scooter. I did all the paperwork and filled out the "blue card." Now, that transaction, as previously described, went unrecorded in the system, therefore showing that i still own the gun. Fast forward 12 years, Scooter sells the gun legally, using the digital database to Barnett. Now, a search of the gun in the computer will show two owners, Barn and I. Its a farce.
I'd also like to briefly speak to the "multiple sales" tracking. The ATF is not flagging traditional gun owners who hit a scratch ticket and go buy 3,4,5, new weapons they've been dreaming of. The multiple sale tracking is a profiling technique that works well because first-time criminals are often pretty stupid. I'd argue that the purchase of 5 of the cheapest identical 9mm Hi-Point pistols by a female who's never before owned a gun is reasonable grounds to be inquisitive. Do you disagree? Is she likely within her rights to do so???? Probably. But we've got to be reasonable. Lets say they pull video of the transaction and she's with her boyfriend in the store who is selecting the guns to buy and only leaves at transaction time. Has she broken the law? Is she protected by the Second Amendment? Now, lets say parking lot footage of the pair reveals his license plate, and the boyfriend is a well known meth-head with multiple prior convictions. Does the Second Amendment still protect her? Where does it end, I guess, is the universal question... I don't have the answer.

[Scootertrash]

The ATF is not flagging traditional gun owners who hit a scratch ticket and go buy 3,4,5, new weapons they've been dreaming of.

Well, let me relate my experience to you.....

Back in about 2012, when an Election had people all fired up about a certain set of individuals enacting more ridiculous gun restrictions, I opted into a group buy on AR15 lower receivers at what would have been the "normal" price at the time when everybody was jacking prices up thru the sky. I ordered 5. My Transferring dealer is what the anti-gunners call a "Kitchen Table Dealer" No storefront, he does business out of his home, and has been for around 25-30 years mainly buying for himself as a collector and doing transfers for close friends. He never really actually made a business out of it. He called me when the receivers arrived at his house, I went over and filled out the paperwork, got "delayed" (I'll cover a little more on that in a sec.), and went back a few days later after the transfer was "allowed to proceed" and picked up my items.

Approx 3 weeks later the dealer was contacted by an agent who wanted to come over and inspect his bookkeeping. After the inspection he told my dealer to pass a message on to me: "Maybe you should get a dealers license." I had to explain to my transfer guy that I am legally allowed to purchase as many firearms as I wish as long as I'm not reselling the firearms. I still have all 5 lowers.

Coincidence?

As far as the "delayed" deal on my transactions, that wasn't the first time it's happened. I'd say about 70% of my transactions are "delayed", but they always end up being "allowed to proceed" within a day or two.

I contacted the ATF and asked why I keep getting "delayed" I was told by the agent that they are not allowed to disclose that information, even to the individual who is being "delayed". All he could tell me is that there was probably someone with a similar name that threw up a flag and they had to do a little research before they allowed the transaction to proceed. He said I could put my SS# on the form, I asked if I would still be "delayed" he said "Probably". He then told me I could apply for a PIN (Personal Identification Number) I asked "Will I still be delayed?" He said "Probably". I said "Well then, what's the point?" He just laughed and said "I hear ya man. I don't make the rules". We joked around for a couple minutes, he actually seemed to be a pretty cool guy.

I had some minor brushes with the law in my misdirected youth, but never anything remotely serious.

Any type of registration or licensing will only affect honest law abiding gun owners. Criminals aren't going to be affected, because they don't obey the law and they don't care if they don't. The majority of criminals get their guns off of the street cheaply, they don'y buy retail, the authorities can use the person's info on the 4473 to track the buyer down and find the other party that way, not to mention the prolific use of cameras in this day and age as you mentioned.

If they are going to enact more "common sense gun laws" (As the antis like to call them), they should be laws that affect those who commit crimes with guns and stiffer penalties for those who steal guns. There is already enough restrictions on law abiding citizens.

Where does it end? As far as I'm concerned it should end now. There are more than enough laws on the books, they just need to be enforced.

[redsox]

I have more to write, just a bit cramped for time until tonight, but, in your case, would you say this an example of a broken system, or a system working properly?

[Scootertrash]

In my case? which part? Being told I should obtain a dealers license, or being denied because my name possibly matches up with someone who shouldn't be allowed to buy firearms?

[redsox]

I'm only going with what you've told me Scooter, but it doesnt sound like you were denied. Were you? It sounds like you were delayed while they double checked (because they're inept). It also sounds like you were not "told" to get a dealers license. From reading what you wrote it sounds like that was the guy's suggestion to abate your distaste for being constantly delayed. I see the process much like I view airport security. A necessary delay that you prepare and account for. You gotta show up two hours early. You know the people doing it are terrible at it. Its uncomfortable and annoying. AND its not going to stop someone hell-bent on taking down a plane. What it does stop are the fringe players with a screw loose. I buy guns when i don't need them so that i already have em' when I do.

[Scootertrash]

Not denied, I was delayed, and have been multiple times thruout my life (more often then not) after becoming legal age to purchase firearms.

You should re-read my post. The "suggestion" by the agent to get a dealers license was because I purchased 5 AR lower receivers, which is well within my rights as a law abiding gun owner. He apparently assumed that I bought them to resell them which was, and still is, incorrect.

The suggestions made to "abate my distaste" for constantly be delayed were:



I contacted the ATF and asked why I keep getting "delayed" I was told by the agent that they are not allowed to disclose that information, even to the individual who is being "delayed". All he could tell me is that there was probably someone with a similar name that threw up a flag and they had to do a little research before they allowed the transaction to proceed. He said I could put my SS# on the form, I asked if I would still be "delayed" he said "Probably". He then told me I could apply for a PIN (Personal Identification Number) I asked "Will I still be delayed?" He said "Probably". I said "Well then, what's the point?" .


A necessary delay that you prepare and account for.

No, it's not a necessary delay. There is no reason to violate my right when I do not have a criminal record or a past history of violence or mental instability. It's a crock of sh!t.

FWIW, I've sat by my transferring dealer every time he's called in my 4473. From what I can tell the people on the other end of the phone are professional, knowledgeable, and polite. I can't say I can say the same for the minimum wage flunkies doing airport security.


What it does stop are the fringe players with a screw loose.

You sure about that? Steven Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, legally purchased 33 firearms from Oct. 2016 to Sept. 2017.

More here:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html


I buy guns when i don't need them so that i already have em' when I do.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at with this statement. If you are somehow insinuating that I "needed" those 5 receivers so badly that that is the reason I'm frustrated with being delayed, you'd be wrong.

You seem to be justifying your support for registering and/or licensing to acquire firearms with the "If it saves just one life" argument used by antigunners. History, and the ridiculous amount of failed or unenforced gun laws have proven that to be false.

[ironchop]

I got delayed every time until I got a Concealed Carry permit in IN.

I got outright rejected once buying a new Sig 220 back when local LEOs did the checks. The police clerk recognized my name from an old group of punks I used to run with after highschool and she assumed I had a felony like the rest of them without even looking it up. I fought that and proved her wrong. The chief made her apologize to me and the gun dealer both to keep her job. Got my Sig. Every time after that it would be delayed again and they would never call back but if the dealer doesn't hear from them again after 72 hrs, the sale proceeds. If they call back after initial delay, you ain't getting no gun today.

That crap is why I filled out my paperwork for a CC permit at the same clerk's window on the spot that day and my delays were over for as long as I had the permit.

I only held the permit for 8 yrs because in Indiana, I couldn't seem to stop getting pulled over and it was always such a HUGE undertaking with officers and the "for your safety" protocol they have to follow. I got tired of laying face down in the street because rookies freak out when you say "I am a concealed permit holder and there is a loaded weapon in the car with me.".... They don't discriminate between lawful permit holder with gun or total wacko felon with gun. So you play the whole "hands on top your head, walk backwards" routine. They would take my pistol, sometimes dismantle it, always unload the mag and chamber and put it in my trunk before I could drive away. People like to call 911 on you too if they catch a glimpse of a gun because they hate guns enough to not care if you're legal or not. I ended up moving away from Indy suburbs to rural southern Kentucky and there's so much less crime and murder here that I feel relatively safe unarmed so I've never bothered with a Kentucky permit.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[bkm]

I got delayed every time until I got a Concealed Carry permit in IN.

I got outright rejected once buying a new Sig 220 back when local LEOs did the checks. The police clerk recognized my name from an old group of punks I used to run with after highschool and she assumed I had a felony like the rest of them without even looking it up. I fought that and proved her wrong. The chief made her apologize to me and the gun dealer both to keep her job. Got my Sig. Every time after that it would be delayed again and they would never call back but if the dealer doesn't hear from them again after 72 hrs, the sale proceeds. If they call back after initial delay, you ain't getting no gun today.

That crap is why I filled out my paperwork for a CC permit at the same clerk's window on the spot that day and my delays were over for as long as I had the permit.

I only held the permit for 8 yrs because in Indiana, I couldn't seem to stop getting pulled over and it was always such a HUGE undertaking with officers and the "for your safety" protocol they have to follow. I got tired of laying face down in the street because rookies freak out when you say "I am a concealed permit holder and there is a loaded weapon in the car with me.".... They don't discriminate between lawful permit holder with gun or total wacko felon with gun. So you play the whole "hands on top your head, walk backwards" routine. They would take my pistol, sometimes dismantle it, always unload the mag and chamber and put it in my trunk before I could drive away. People like to call 911 on you too if they catch a glimpse of a gun because they hate guns enough to not care if you're legal or not. I ended up moving away from Indy suburbs to rural southern Kentucky and there's so much less crime and murder here that I feel relatively safe unarmed so I've never bothered with a Kentucky permit.

Sent from my Z958 using TapatalkI've worked with a couple of guys who would act like that. Being the same rank, the only thing I could do is tell them how stupid and afraid they looked. Then after I was promoted, I had a goofball on my squad who tried pulling that crap. That was the last time he did that around me.

There is a way to conduct yourself with a ccw holder and that's not it. There is also a fine line between officer safety and acting like you're going to piss your pants because someone is armed.

If I stop someone for a stupid traffic violation and they have the courtesy to tell me they have a gun and where it is, they get a pass and sent on their way.

The academy's drills into your head that every single person is going to kill you and while you can't let your guard down during any situation, you also can't effectively do your job if you think every single person is itching to blow you away.

[ironchop]

I've worked with a couple of guys who would act like that. Being the same rank, the only thing I could do is tell them how stupid and afraid they looked. Then after I was promoted, I had a goofball on my squad who tried pulling that crap. That was the last time he did that around me.

There is a way to conduct yourself with a ccw holder and that's not it. There is also a fine line between officer safety and acting like you're going to piss your pants because someone is armed.

If I stop someone for a stupid traffic violation and they have the courtesy to tell me they have a gun and where it is, they get a pass and sent on their way.

The academy's drills into your head that every single person is going to kill you and while you can't let your guard down during any situation, you also can't effectively do your job if you think every single person is itching to blow you away.The first time was because I had a headlight out. The MCSD officer was literally shaking holding my pistol (Springfield Ultra Compact) and his partner asked if he cleared it so he takes it, racks the slide open, dumps out the shell, drops the slide, then let's the mag drop. I had to tell him and the other guy that the weapon was still hot until they emptied the chamber again. The other guy let me off the pavement and said his partner was new. They were in two separate cars. They also dismantled my gun and asked why I had "cop killer bullets".....they were Cor-Bon +P JHP, not Black Talons.

I understand the extra caution and I don't hate them for doing their job as required. I still appreciate law enforcement and not worrying about my family living in the Wild West is pretty nice.

In Indiana back then, you weren't required to take a safety course for CCW like you do here in Kentucky. You send in two blank money orders and they check you, mail you a permit and a letter that outlines what to do if you come into contact with an officer while carrying. Nothing else. They don't care if you know when it's legal to shoot a fool, they make sure you know how not to get accidentally killed by an officer though. I memorized that sheet and followed the instructions to the letter.

Couple other times were seatbelt checks and those roadside drug roadblocks they got into trouble with the DOJ and SC over them being unconstitutional. It's like a DUI checkpoint but with drug dogs. That was different depts like IPD and State Police. The State Police were the easiest to deal with.

I'm not too mad about it. Alot of officers have been shot and/or killed up there so I'm empathetic to their concerns. I'm upset that I feel hassled for being legal but I will agree with another thing you said because I was having a conversation here with a state boy and a local Sheriff. The subject was police shootings and they both said the same thing you did. They said that they were trained up front that "everyone could potentially kill you" and "when approaching a motorist, just expect trouble until you see otherwise" .....the last part is paraphrasing because I'm not going to say what he actually said. It was much more harsh than that. They both said this is standard LEO training now.

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[ironchop]

I just wanna say.......that feckin boils my blood........like how long do they keep punk records ? ........Florida was bad too !
Yeah we were a group of bad boys about 20 deep from three different highschools and we all grew up in a VERY rural area where everyone loves Jesus and everyone knows everyone else. We were legendary for getting into all sorts of trouble and epic parties that attracted cops. City kids were surprised at how wild country kids were once they found out. They were throwing risky business parties, drinking purple passion and wine coolers, and worrying about broken lamps. We were smashed on kegs and shine, smoking doobs, chasing lines, shooting guns, mud trucks, nekkd girls, ATVs, fireworks wars, arson, vandalism, anything dangerous. Friends died, no joke. So that corner of Johnson County had enough trouble makers per capita to land us on some sort of master list but mostly because everyone knew who the bad kids were. We deserved the scrutiny

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[Arky-X]

Yeah we were a group of bad boys about 20 deep from three different highschools and we all grew up in a VERY rural area where everyone loves Jesus and everyone knows everyone else. We were legendary for getting into all sorts of trouble and epic parties that attracted cops. City kids were surprised at how wild country kids were once they found out. They were throwing risky business parties, drinking purple passion and wine coolers, and worrying about broken lamps. We were smashed on kegs and shine, smoking doobs, chasing lines, shooting guns, mud trucks, nekkd girls, ATVs, fireworks wars, arson, vandalism, anything dangerous. Friends died, no joke. So that corner of Johnson County had enough trouble makers per capita to land us on some sort of master list but mostly because everyone knew who the bad kids were. We deserved the scrutiny

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ATVs?!?!?!?!?!?!?
That's some bad stuff right there.
:)

[redsox]

I feel like my position here is getting me painted as anti-gun. I can assure you that is not the case.

I'm curious why you chose to quote the word suggestion like i used it in a misleading manner.


You should re-read my post. The "suggestion" by the agent to get a dealers license was because I purchased 5 AR lower receivers, which is well within my rights as a law abiding gun owner.

I took you up on the offer and I did re-read your post. You quoted him as saying "maybe you should get a dealers license." Is that something other than a suggestion?


He apparently assumed that I bought them to resell them which was, and still is, incorrect.

Is/was that wrong of him? Should your purchase have lead him to believe otherwise? I am certainly not saying that there is anything wrong with what you bought. But, let me ask you, do most people who purchase 5 lowers at one time buy them for themselves?



No, it's not a necessary delay. There is no reason to violate my right when I do not have a criminal record or a past history of violence or mental instability. It's a crock of sh!t.

Which of your rights were violated, exactly? Are #victim t-shirts for sale on both sides of the aisle now?



You sure about that? Steven Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, legally purchased 33 firearms from Oct. 2016 to Sept. 2017.

Were any of them doubles or triples (meaning multiple purchases of the same make/model at the same time)? Was he wait-listed on any of them? Also, this example of "it didn't stop him so its pointless" is just as ridiculous as the "if it saves one life" argument you are trying to attribute to me. Farcical.




I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at with this statement. If you are somehow insinuating that I "needed" those 5 receivers so badly that that is the reason I'm frustrated with being delayed, you'd be wrong.

What i'm trying to get at is that this is the way of the world now, and the cost of doing business. You're going to get checked out, and occasionally delayed. Is it mildly inconvenient? Yes. Is it an all-out assault by Nancy Pelosi on your GOD GIVEN RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN!?!?!? No. I don't think so. At least I don't feel that way. Just like I don't feel violated when mongo brushes my junk at the pat-down before I board jet-blue. Its no big deal.


You seem to be justifying your support for registering and/or licensing to acquire firearms with the "If it saves just one life" argument used by antigunners.

Not at all. And please, spare me the "deserve neither" quote from Uncle Ben. I've heard it. Society wants rules scooter.

[sledcrazyinCT]

All good things take time. If you want a weapon that is your choice and 2nd amendment right. We are all aware there are thousands of gun laws on the books already. Delays to conduct background checks are laws already on the books, or is that an incorrect assumption? Consider yourself lucky to not live in state like CT or NY as they would drive you crazy with their state laws that supersede Federal laws. Imagine needing to file for an ammo purchase permit just to buy 22LR at your local Walmart

[Scootertrash]

I feel like my position here is getting me painted as anti-gun. I can assure you that is not the case.

I'm curious why you chose to quote the word suggestion like i used it in a misleading manner.

First off, just in case there is a misunderstanding about the agents involved: both incidences involved different agents. The one I talked to on the phone about my high incidence of being delayed, the other being the agent who inspected my dealers records. 2 separate incidents, 2 different agents, both incidents unrelated and a couple of years apart.

My highlighting of the word "suggestion" Has nothing to do with my interpretation of how I perceived you meant it. It has to do with the meaning behind a "suggestion" when a person in a position of power makes a "suggestion":

Parent to child: I suggest you stop that behavior

Boss to employee: I suggest you start getting here on time.




I took you up on the offer and I did re-read your post. You quoted him as saying "maybe you should get a dealers license." Is that something other than a suggestion?

See above




Is/was that wrong of him? Should your purchase have lead him to believe otherwise? I am certainly not saying that there is anything wrong with what you bought. But, let me ask you, do most people who purchase 5 lowers at one time buy them for themselves?

Hell yes it's wrong for him to assume I'm doing something wrong. Why would a perfectly legal purchase lead him to believe anything nefarious is going on? You seriously have to ask if it's wrong for a government agent to assume that someone is, or might be doing something illegal, based on a completely legal purchase? Dood, really?

As to the second part of your question, yes, lots of people buy multiple lowers for AR style rifles and keep them for themselves, it's quite common in fact.

Are you familiar with the AR platform of firearms? The ability to build multiple variations of styles and calibers off of one receiver is an attractive trait to a huge majority of gun owners. With those 5 lowers I can build 5 completely different styles and calibers of rifles or pistols, Yes, building/assembling firearms for oneself is completely legal, once again as long as the individual isn't selling the firearms as a business. I'm sure there are certain parameters set forth by the government as to what constitutes "sellling firearms as a business", but since I don't sell firearms they are not my concern.



Which of your rights were violated, exactly? Are #victim t-shirts for sale on both sides of the aisle now?


the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

At what point in your life were you victimized to the point that you feel that law abiding gun owners should be subject to a bible sized accumulation of laws and restrictions that criminals, nutcases and loonies don't follow or don't care if they break those laws?





Were any of them doubles or triples (meaning multiple purchases of the same make/model at the same time)? Was he wait-listed on any of them?

What's your point?

I can't answer that question and neither can you, and the Feds aren't gonna tell us. FFS They won't even explain to me why I get delayed even tho I have no criminal record.


Also, this example of "it didn't stop him so its pointless" is just as ridiculous as the "if it saves one life" argument you are trying to attribute to me. Farcical.

Only because you fail to accept THE FACT that all of the laws and background checks failed to stop this guy from allegedly killing or injuring 225 people. Not to mention the 17 other incidents in the article I linked. Did you read it? "If he would have just had to register his guns or get licensed, this never would have happened.........250152






What i'm trying to get at is that this is the way of the world now, and the cost of doing business. The only reason it's "the way of the world now" is because a bunch of weak minded, insecure sheep have allowed the elite politicians to convince them that "common sense gun restrictions" will make them safe.


You're going to get checked out, and occasionally delayed. Is it mildly inconvenient? Yes. Is it an all-out assault by Nancy Pelosi on your GOD GIVEN RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN!?!?!? No. I don't think so. At least I don't feel that way. Just like I don't feel violated when mongo brushes my junk at the pat-down before I board jet-blue. Its no big deal.

You should have your kids and your relatives kids read this book:

250153




Not at all. And please, spare me the "deserve neither" quote from Uncle Ben. I've heard it. Society wants rules scooter.



Yea , it sucks when some old guy helped a bunch of other old guys who had experienced the abuses of governmental overreach and how they affected individual freedoms and god given rights wrote our Constitution to try to eliminate the ability of Government to trample individual rights.

Here's another from James Madison:

“I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
― James Madison

Now your politicians have enacted a law to make those evil bump stocks illegal, and if you don't turn them in they will come and confiscate them.

What happened to:


Is it mildly inconvenient? Yes. Is it an all-out assault by Nancy Pelosi on your GOD GIVEN RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN!?!?!? No. I don't think so. At least I don't feel that way. Just like I don't feel violated when mongo brushes my junk at the pat-down before I board jet-blue. Its no big deal.

You should feel safer now. No big deal. A mild inconvenience. But you are safer now, right?

You argue that it's OK for a federal agent to assume that I am doing or will do something illegal based on a perfectly legal purchase, but it's a violation of your rights that they want to confiscate, by force if necessary, an item that they've declared illegal

You and your fellow gun owners with the "just a few rules" attitude are the ones who have allowed this sh!t to happen, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

Boiling a frog an' sh!t, yo.

If all of these laws make you feel safe, why do you need to carry a gun for protection?

[redsox]

Ok Scooter. Well thought out response. You have a few good points. But let me ask you this one question. In your opinion, should there be any restrictions on the purchase or sale of any firearms at all?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Ok Scooter. Well thought out response. You have a few good points. But let me ask you this one question. In your opinion, should there be any restrictions on the purchase or sale of any firearms at all?

If a person has no criminal record that would bar the ownership of firearms in general.... NO! M-60, Chicago Typewriters, M-16, anything. That is what 2a means. Any assertion that it does not is thoroughly false if not an outright lie.

Dan, Uncle Ben's words ring just as true today as ever, if not more so. The progressive elite politicians keep moving the line in the sand as pertaining to our God given, constitutionally protected (and very specifically so) rights. Funny how the same crowd that would grant illegals the right to vote would strip you of your weapons today if they could. But they can't do it all today, so they keep moving that line in the sand with all of the usual cliches, "if it saves just one life", and my personal favorite "common sense gun legislation". Common sense dictates that those who would use firearms to commit acts of evil are not controlled by "gun control" laws and regs ironically enough. If a person is bent on the taking of life (one of the highest of laws to break) then what sane person would think all these regulations would make the slightest bit of difference in their course??? I know it keeps coming around to these basic talking points, but it is no less the truth. These are the laws of nature.

[redsox]

Red, I was hoping you were going to chime in here as i know you feel strongly on the subject. I was also hoping for a response from scooter, as i'm genuinely interested in his thoughts. I don't suppose i'd come across a bigger gun advocate than you are Red, and even your statement lends itself to my position. And I agree. If I can legally own a gun, than I should be able to legally own (most) things. But the predicated upon contingent that you explain below is the whole point,,,


If a person has no criminal record that would bar the ownership of firearms in general....

How is a salesman (or the Government) to know if a person has a criminal record without checking? Also, I would add that i feel strongly about age restrictions. A 12 year old should not be able to walk into walmart and buy a gun. So, there must be some oversight. Right? What does that mean? That means that someone somewhere must ask some questions. And, it also means that it might someday be you that is asked. Also, it might someday be me. Now, if they ask the questions, and I answer, and i get denied,, THEN my rights have been violated. The violation, in my opinion, does not take place at the asking of the question, as Scooter contends. Furthermore, I would expect that those we put into positions of authority, who's salary we pay as Taxpayers, would perform their job diligently, and without bias. So, it stands to reason that an experienced agent, who knows what to look for, would become skilled at fettering out potential fraud by looking at some parameters. One of those parameters, it seems to me, would be multiple sales. So, if an agent sits down at his desk and says, "where do I start looking to find fraud?" And then pulls up a record of all the multiple sales among the thousands of sales in his area, and he follows up with a few questions to the purchaser, I'm completely fine with that. Its not an intrusion,,, its reasonable. And our (yes, i'm lumping us in together on the same side of the gun rights issue) resistance to that reasonable measure is a stance used by the leftist anti-gunners to paint us all as redneck zealots who will not take reasonable safety measures.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I get you Dan. Age limits are fine, minors do not enjoy every right that adults do. I have no issue with a BG check, even though I feel that most criminals acquire their weapons by illegal means because they would not pass a BG check. And again, what does the average would-be killer care about abiding by firearms regs in the first place. But, a simple BG check I can tolerate and play along, I have nothing to hide. Restrictions on what I can own I have a serious problem with. What difference does it make if I have a Winchester model 70 338 Win Mag that is effective at distances of over 500 yards and will defeat ANY body armor or if I have a full auto M-16? It only takes one bullet, and you cannot call it back. It matters not how many more rounds are in the mag or what the rate of fire is.

Now in Scooter's case I think he has a legitimate gripe that he keeps getting delayed through no fault of his own. And I think he has a gripe when he inquires about the special ID he can obtain in the hopes that the delays will stop and they say it likely won't help. At it's best, this expends time and resources of ATF to put delays on people who legitimately warrant a delay. Suggesting he get a dealers license?? For what?? Now if they caught him selling those lowers, then that would be grounds for something. But wouldn't it have gone better if after he proved that he bought them for his own personal use, they said "no problem Sir, we just needed to follow up, have a nice day"... If I am recalling his accounting of it, they had no grounds to "suggest" he get a license. That borders on harassment in my book. I get it, they have a tough job, many criminals are clever and skirt the system for a long time before being caught, some never get caught. But lets not lose sight of the fact that once he was proven clear, that should have been the end of it. I'm a very pro-law enforcement guy, I know it's a tough job on the best of days. But I think some people in those positions just develop an overlying sense of cynicism dealing with folks in spite of something that may turn out to be nothing at all. IMHO it kind of sounds like Scooter may have gotten a little of that. If there is nothing wrong, there is nothing wrong, end of story.

Yeah, I'm definitely a pro-2a guy. Living here in the Peoples Republik of New York-istan under Andy Cuomo the wannabe Furor and his beloved (UN)Safe-act I am very up at arms (pun intended) when I start hearing talk about more gun legislation. That creep went so far as to exempt active and retired law enforcement from his Safe-act that he saddled us, his EMPLOYERS with! Again, I am not anti-LEO, but I do NOT believe in the establishment of two classes of citizen as he has done by this...the enforcers and the enforced. By that simple action, he insults every citizen by saying there is no such thing as a trustworthy citizen, and no such thing as a non-trustworthy LEO. Of course this is completely untrue and insulting to me. Good and bad exist in both groups, bad being the minority in both cases. But that is the law of the land here and it sickens me that this can happen in America.

Anyway, safety measures.. Again, I don't believe a simple BG check is a violation of rights. Gun legislation and regulation on the other hand, from the NFA all the way to today is dead wrong and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. You cannot punish the whole of society with the stripping of rights and freedom for the actions of a few.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Oh, I need to share a bit more NY tyrannical agenda with you... A state legislator from downstate has sponsored a bill that would limit ammo sales to an individual to no more than twice the capacity of the firearm he/she owns every 90 days. They are still pushing for this... And looking at targeting "types" of ammo, pistol "assault rifle" and such... Lots of bolt rifles and Thompson Center single shots that fire 5.56 rounds. What about the 18 year old who owns a Winchester model 94 chambered in 357 or 44mag?? SO he would not be able to purchase ammo for the rifle he legally owns and hunts with because he has no pistol permit??? There's that line in the sand again.... They WILL NEVER STOP!

One last thing... How are they suppose to know the capacity of all of the firearms legally owned in NYS??? Hmmm??? Full mandatory registration, that's how! The writing is on the wall, and their actions prove me right time and time again.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/01/04/new-york-legislators-propose-another-une

[redsox]

I didn't really have any problem with registration until this recent ban. And I don't own a bump stock or trigger crank. But WTF. Yesterday its fine and now its a felony? Thats crazy to me. I would disagree with you Joe on where the line is with what is legal and what isn't. I do feel that EVENTUALLY there would have to be a limit on what regular joe should be able to own. I don't believe that private citizens should be able to purchase heavy ordinance. So, somewhere I have a line. I agree its dicy talk and a slippery slope, because chuck schumer would come and take all the sharp sticks if he could. I am hoping that constitutional carry will pass. That will negate the Massachusetts Attorney Generals Consumer Protection list here in Massachusetts. If you don't know what that is, its this completely arbitrary list of what handguns you can buy and what you cannot. For an example, a S&W .380 Bodyguard is ok to own and Ruger LCP .380 is off limits. The two guns are virtually functionally identical. Its nuts. But, if I could carry in New Hampshire, I could buy in New Hampshire and walk out of the store legally with the Ruger.

[Scootertrash]

I'll chime back in tomorrow guys, been super busy.

Keep yer powder dry! ;)

[RIDE-RED 250r]

"Yesterday it's fine, today it's a felony".... A familiar song here in NY since the Safe Act.

As far as heavy ordinance... Well, that's kind of reaching into the extreme areas of the subject. Frankly, 2a is pretty clear about not placing limits on the arms the people are entitled to keep. A howitzer on every hill!! Lol!

But seriously though, we are pretty much talking about small arms here in this context. The steady march of the tyrannical progressive knows no limit. They will be after our bolt action hunting rifles soon...you know, with that scary looking optic and all, they are a deadly "sniper rifle". They. Do. Not. Stop....EVER.

I know a little bit about your state's list of firearms you lowly serfs are allowed to possess.. sickening.

[Scootertrash]

K, sorry for the delay boys.

Heavy ordinance? First off, like Ride-Red, I believe that is getting to the extreme of the issue and the Progressive/liberals already have a variation of that they use to justify their constant push to ban firearms.

It's called "Military Style" firearms. Name me 1 style of firearm that hasn't been used in a military capacity.

I also think those types of weapons would be self regulating to an extent: They would be extremely expensive, the ammo would be extremely expensive since it wouldn't be a mass production type ammo due to the lack of ability of people to afford the weapon, and lastly you'll need enough land to be able to shoot the dang thing.

That's all I'll say on that topic, since this is small arms related.

Age limits? Maybe on purchasing a firearm, ammo not so much.

Keeping track of bad guys is as simple as putting the info on a drivers license or ID card, which could also be used as a voter ID. No ID? No guns, (or voting) period.

My situation? There should be a way for me to clear my name so to speak, of whatever it is that keeps getting me delayed. I've been thru the NICS system enough whereby I should have some sort of notation so that when the dealer calls in my 4473 the agent can see that I've been cleared multiple times. This isn't an issue where I've just had it happen once or twice. ;)

As far as the multiple purchase issue, like I said, multiple purchases of AR lowers is very common. The agent made an assumption. His opinion on how I should conduct my purchases is irrelevant. My purchase was legal and above the board, which should be his only concern. In my opinion, he either knew or got a feeling my dealer didn't know the laws and assumed I didn't or wouldn't know the laws either, in addition to the possibility he feels that citizens shouldn't be acquiring "military style" weapons. That's my opinion and worth every penny you paid for it. ;) :beer

I guess I really don't have that big of a problem with background checks, but the 4473 should be destroyed after confirmation of the ability to purchase, not retained for 20 years. If anybody thinks that these forms wouldn't be used for a forced confiscation, they're a fool.

One only needs to look at "Australian style" gun laws the left tried to promote a few years back: They confiscated weapons but they paid you for them.................with a special tax instituted especially for the confiscation. "We are going to take your guns, but we'll pay you with money we are going to take from you first. Genius! Can I be first in line? :rolleyes:

[ironchop]

....
It's called "Military Style" firearms....

Yeah I hate that term.

What they mean is "military looking"

The difference between a real M4("M16") and a civilian AR15 is actually bigger than the difference between an AR15 and any other semi auto rifle like a Ruger 10-22.

It's just looks. People are magically terrified to see black paint, long mags, pistol grips, barrel shrouds, and "shoulder things that go up"

Because MOVIES. If Bruce Willis had shot terrorists wielding pump shotguns and semi auto 9mm carbines, then that's what people would be terrified of instead.

If it wasn't for A-team, mini 14s would still be considered a ranch rifle for shooting wolves.


Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[Scootertrash]

LOL @ "Shoulder thing that goes up" :lol: I award you 15 internetz!

Most people don't have a clue what that means or where it came from:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U

[RIDE-RED 250r]

"Military style weapons".. well, let's really dig into that a little bit. How many weapons commonly used today have been or are currently implemented by military? A flintlock rifle was military at some point. The S&W revolver was military at one point. I think what the real deal here is "contemporary" or maybe even "state of the art". They don't mind us having certain weapons (at least that's what they say at this point" so long as it's not as good as what the military and police forces use. That idea is in utter contempt of the 2nd amendment. I believe that no non-criminal civilian should be barred from owning and using contemporary weaponry. Let's get small arms ownership back into compliance with 2a and then we can have the discussion about artillery.

[redsox]

Ok Red, i'm in agreement, especially with the last sentence. Now, tell me the acceptable process for the government to ensure that "no non-criminal civilian is barred from owning and using a contemporary weapon."

Scooter, I saw the video of all the guns being melted down in Australia. I remember owning it on VHS, at least 15 years ago, (but my guess is closer to 25 years). Appalling stuff, and not dissimilar to the bump-stock stuff happening now. What is your opinion on how sales should be regulated? I'm not asking which regulations should be imposed, rather, how the government goes about actually doing the job of regulating?

Chop, I hate to sound redundant, but again, excellent post.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Dan, we are in agreement that accurate, timely, and free BG checks are not an infringement. The biggest problem though is that the majority of weapons used for criminal purposes are not attained by legal means. I would be in favor of more vigorous enforcement of illegal weapons ownership and illegal acts committed with weapons as well as much more severe penalties for those types of violations. Yes, this most recent school shooting involved a legally purchased and owned weapon. But then it sounds like there were some pretty strong clues about this kid that should have been cause for some action. Very tricky waters to navigate for sure, we cannot convict a person for a crime they have not yet committed, but we also should keep an eye open for signs of an unstable individual who may commit an act.

As a side note to the BG check issue. Maybe local law enforcement agencies should play a role?? I know it's a federal law managed by the feds, but maybe the fact that local law enforcement being closest to the individual could play a role at some level in the process that would serve to streamline the process for guys like Scooter and the issues he has been dealing with as well as perhaps catching a person like the piece of filth that shot up the school in FL before he acquired a weapon??

[ironchop]

...
As a side note to the BG check issue. Maybe local law enforcement agencies should play a role?? I know it's a federal law managed by the feds, but maybe the fact that local law enforcement being closest to the individual could play a role at some level in the process that would serve to streamline the process for guys like Scooter and the issues he has been dealing with as well as perhaps catching a person like the piece of filth that shot up the school in FL before he acquired a weapon??

If you'll remember, they used to be. Gun lobby complained that local LEOs would be too slow and swamped to handle all these checks. So they argued successfully that any delay in a gun sale whatsoever was an infringement on your 2A. This is how the NICS program got started and funded. They told gun owners that "to be fair and quick, we'll need to consolidate into one national background check system run by the FBI" (same org that runs straw purchased guns from AZ over the border to MX cartels and ignores mass shooter warnings on the regular)

Plus it's easier to register all the gun purchases that way with fancy new taxpayer funded digital tyranny machines.




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[redsox]

Very interesting,,,, so let me tell you a little story about the peoples republic of Massachusetts. Licenses to carry come in Class A and Class B. (There are other small variations but these are the most common) They are issued by the Chief of Police of the individuals city or town. Good system right? Well, most of the time it is. Until politicians like Marty Walsh and Joe Curtatone (sanctuary city guys) with deep seated political agendas tell their chiefs that if they'd like to remain chief then they should stop issuing Licenses. In many cases, people just can't get an LTC. Other chiefs make it a bit difficult. When I first got my LTC I lived in Saugus MA, which was a nice blue collar town outside of the city. I went on my 18th birthday and I got "the packet" and had to fill everything out and 3 letters of reference, yada, yada, yada. I then bring the packet back and hand it to "The licensing officer" who was designated by the chief. I was told to "check back in 6 weeks." 6 weeks later, I go in and i'm told that the Chief has designated a NEW "licensing officer" and it will be another 6 weeks for the review. 6 weeks later, pissed, I go in and after an interview, I got it. I think its a tactic used to generally reduce licenses. Its a pain in the arse. So , my point is, there is no perfect solution, but it does not mean we shouldn't try.

[Shep1970]

Redsox i went through basically the same (here in mass) 19yrs old i had to talk to chief about getting a FID card (just to purchase or own) took a few weeks but recieved it. Basically had to pry it from his hands though, he did ask if i would take a safety course within the year. I went and picked up a couple of pea-shooters/ although they’ve been locked in a safe for i’d say 25yrs its nice to know they are there. Just recently i told the wife about this, she wants to go to a gun range when it gets warmer. I guess she’s a keeper

Shep

[ironchop]

Redsox i went through basically the same (here in mass) 19yrs old i had to talk to chief about getting a FID card (just to purchase or own) took a few weeks but recieved it. Basically had to pry it from his hands though, he did ask if i would take a safety course within the year. I went and picked up a couple of pea-shooters/ although they’ve been locked in a safe for i’d say 25yrs its nice to know they are there. Just recently i told the wife about this, she wants to go to a gun range when it gets warmer. I guess she’s a keeper

Shep

I'm a fan of requiring a safety course. Not just focused on operating a gun safely, but also proper marksmanship so you don't kill a bystander defending yourself, and also when you can legally defend yourself with a firearm.

I'm all for 2A rights but I don't think asking for a safety course is too much. It won't solve mass shootings at all but it may keep people from deadly accidents. I had friends with CCWs whom I would not shoot at range with because they were unsafe morons and I was afraid they would hurt someone on accident or hurt the wrong person on purpose.

Thing is, my middle school required everyone, EVERYONE to take the Indiana Hunter Education and Safety course as part of our health class in 7th grade. It was six weeks and taught by a INDNR officer who came to the school and also our health/gym teacher. At the end, we had to do live fire drills and be tested on handling a loaded .22 rifle and a bow in order to pass the class....Life in 1983!

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[Scootertrash]

I would be in favor of more vigorous enforcement of illegal weapons ownership and illegal acts committed with weapons as well as much more severe penalties for those types of violations.

Punishment should be severe enough to discourage crime in general, let alone if a firearm or any weapon for that matter, is used.

Our county Sheriff issues carry permits. I go in, fill out the form, provide proof of successful completion of a Conceal Carry class, and within 10 days I have my permit which doubles as my permit to purchase a handgun.

[redsox]

These days, most dirty guns are bought clean. When you guys say, "gangbangers aren't following the law" you're right. But have you ever stopped to think where "gangbangers" are getting the guns? I only ask because its relative to punishment. Its difficult to catch a straw purchaser in the act, and, when caught, it becomes a "punishment for a crime about to be committed" situation. So, often-drug-addicted but relatively non-criminal addicts would bear the brunt of the "severe" punishment. i'm not opposed to this personally, but I assure you, there is little appetite for mandatory sentences when judges and lawyers kids are involved.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Yes, handgun laws vary the most from state to state. Here in NY, one must be 21 years old and have a certificate of completion of the NRA basic handgun safety course. Without that certificate, you cannot even pick up a pistol permit application from the pistol licensing officer. The pistol permits are handled by each individual county pistol licensing officer and the county judge is the one who issues, denies, and revokes pistol licenses. Being that NY is not a "must issue" state, issuance is at the sole discretion of the judge. Some judges are very good, and some suck and issue zero licenses unless the applicant is Law Enforcement or politically connected somehow.

Once we fill out all of our forms we make an appointment with the county sheriffs office to get fingerprinted and hand in the application packet. At this time you also hand over a check for $136.50 to pay for the fingerprinting and full background check. Then you wait.... A few months later you will get your letter of approval (if you get approved) at which time you are instructed to go and purchase a handgun (which is dumb because unless you have your license you are not permitted to even handle a handgun in this state) and then you make an appointment with the pistol license office to have your license issued. Why you ask?? Because in this state, you cannot have a pistol license unless you have a pistol. So, you take your receipt from purchasing that first handgun (which you have not yet taken possession of) with you to the licensing office, they then issue your license and add the pistol you have paid for to you "list". At that point the officer will give you a little green slip that says the dealer or individual you have bought eh pitol from can now turn it over to you. That list I mentioned above?? Well, they know each and every handgun we own. Make, model, type, caliber and serial number. The only thing that changes for you once you have been issued your license and have your first handgun on your list and in your possession is that now when I buy a handgun, I pay for it, take the receipt to the pistol license office (no appointment necessary at this point) and they add it to your list and give you the green slip so you can go back to the gunshop and bring your new handgun home.

Sorry about the long story, but this is what we NYers must go through to purchase a handgun. It's not like you just go get your pistol license and you can now go buy whatever you want, no.. they keep track of everything you own. Handguns are fully registered here in NY, have been for nearly 100 years. I don't agree with how stringent it is for handgun owners here in NY. They place many financial obstacles in the way for someone looking to get their first handgun, requiring someone to pay for a handgun before they will issue the license is the biggest. To me it's always seemed as dumb as not allowing someone to have a drivers license unless they pay for a car first.

Anyway, handguns are kind of a subject all their own as seen by how differently the individual states regulate them. Long gun regs are pretty similar in most states, NY, CA, and a couple other New England states being the exception where they have made the ownership of an AR-15 as originally designed is now illegal..at least here in NY anyway. I believe Mass, Cali, and Conn are similar if not the same as NY in this area. All BS whatever the case..

Dan, I;m not in law enforcement as you are, but my gut tells me that most gangbangers and other career lowlifes are getting their weapons by illegal smuggling in from other countries (mainly south of the border), and weapons that have been stolen from legal owners and sold cheap on the street. I'm sure some are obtained through straw purchasers, but I'm inclined to think that method is not utilized nearly as much as the other two I mentioned previously. These people certainly aren't stealing their full autos from legal owners here in the US. Kind of like the days of prohibition, the tighter you regulate something, the more lucrative the black market for that thing becomes. I don't think firearms are an exception.

[redsox]

Ironically, guns are smuggled OUT of america into mexico, the Caribbean, and south america. Stolen guns are a big source of bad guy guns here, as are illegally sold hand-me-down guns from past generations. But, by far the largest source of illegal guns come from straw purchasers. Shiteheads, often women, usually just starting out in a life of scummery, who still have a clean record, that need drugs and see the money to be made in flipping a gun. So, dumb-dumb rolls into a gun shop in NH, buys 5 Hi-Point 40 cals for $1000, drives ten minutes into Massachusetts with them, and drops them to their dealer for $1000 each (usually paid in heroin) which is then driven ten minutes up into NH, where it is now worth double to triple. Where else can you make $10k in a day?

[ironchop]

Ironically, guns are smuggled OUT of america into mexico, the Caribbean, and south america.

Yeah we heard about Eric Holder's little gun-running operation funded by the DOJ via the taxpayers.

You got the CIA shipping coke into the country to "help the Contras" and the DOJ shipping straw-purchased guns out of the country to "combat illegal arms sales"

Also WHY would I be a cartel Hitman with my straw-purchased $1000 SEMI-AUTO AK47 with legalized nonsense all over it from the back of Eric Holders van when I can get new in crate FULL AUTO AKs sourced from Africa for the equivalent of $75 American dollars according to my international arms dealer aquaintance. It's laughable that billionaire cartels would bother overpaying grossly for underperforming weapons via a convoluted end-around from Americans walking sissy guns across the border. I'm a got darn smuggler, for crying out loud, I can easily smuggle cheap AKs into my continent. It's what I do, right?

The Argentinians are big military select fire weapons manufacturers as well. Why would you buy a semi auto WASR smuggled from Cali with fixed magazines and bullet buttons when you can get more serious hardware from your next door neighbor for much less?

Sorry, but I believe none of any "official claims or stories" anymore regarding where guns actually come from because I've been in arms manufacturing in military contracts for a number of years and I also pay close attention to every time the US LIES about not being nefarious hypocrites in some Congressional hearing only to be caught lying every time. Every. Time.






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[Scootertrash]

Yeah we heard about Eric Holder's little gun-running operation funded by the DOJ via the taxpayers.

You got the CIA shipping coke into the country to "help the Contras" and the DOJ shipping straw-purchased guns out of the country to "combat illegal arms sales"

Also WHY would I be a cartel Hitman with my straw-purchased $1000 SEMI-AUTO AK47 with legalized nonsense all over it from the back of Eric Holders van when I can get new in crate FULL AUTO AKs sourced from Africa for the equivalent of $75 American dollars according to my international arms dealer aquaintance. It's laughable that billionaire cartels would bother overpaying grossly for underperforming weapons via a convoluted end-around from Americans walking sissy guns across the border. I'm a got darn smuggler, for crying out loud, I can easily smuggle cheap AKs into my continent. It's what I do, right?

The Argentinians are big military select fire weapons manufacturers as well. Why would you buy a semi auto WASR smuggled from Cali with fixed magazines and bullet buttons when you can get more serious hardware from your next door neighbor for much less?

Sorry, but I believe none of any "official claims or stories" anymore regarding where guns actually come from because I've been in arms manufacturing in military contracts for a number of years and I also pay close attention to every time the US LIES about not being nefarious hypocrites in some Congressional hearing only to be caught lying every time. Every. Time.

Thank You!

I don't understand how some can be so gullible as to believe that criminals would actually purchase, or try to, firearms at retail, let alone cartel members.

[ironchop]

Thank You!

I don't understand how some can be so gullible as to believe that criminals would actually purchase, or try to, firearms at retail, let alone cartel members.There are illegal arms factories popping up in the ex Soviet sattelite states that are manufacturing select fire subguns. They have logos engraved and even serial numbers but when Interpol tried to trace them, nobody can figure out where they came from. The theory is somewhere in the Balkans but they can't prove it. The weapons are brand new, illegally manufactured, have only been found on terrorists and criminals, and have zero paper trail. So Scotland Yard, etc has now discovered that the illegal arms trade has now evolved from trying to steal/buy weapons to simply setting up your own machine shop and manufacture your own. This is, they estimate, 10 times cheaper than the traditional methods.

So now all you need is a small machine shop and your set.....

https://youtu.be/pq1TXEE_QK4

Always a market somewhere

https://youtu.be/FinRqCocwGE

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[redsox]

Because they're not paying cash, amigo. Get it? They are paying with what they have, which is the dope, and getting what we have, the guns. You think cartel members are few and far between? Think again. Its here, and its organized, and its well armed. Small arms are getting shipped to mexico and the dominican republic multiple times every day, in small numbers. Mailed and shipped freight, and theres nothing or no one to stop it. I don't know the availability of arms in mexico relative to the US, but I do know that the demand exhausts the supply down there, creating a market. Same thing with dope up here.

Editors note; i couldn't care less about it. What happens in mexico is not really my business or concern.

[ironchop]

On those mystery illegal subguns...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-machine-pistol-seized-europe/

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[ironchop]

Because they're not paying cash, amigo. Get it? They are paying with what they have, which is the dope, and getting what we have, the guns. You think cartel members are few and far between? Think again. Its here, and its organized, and its well armed. Small arms are getting shipped to mexico and the dominican republic multiple times every day, in small numbers. Mailed and shipped freight, and theres nothing or no one to stop it. I don't know the availability of arms in mexico relative to the US, but I do know that the demand exhausts the supply down there, creating a market. Same thing with dope up here.

Editors note; i couldn't care less about it. What happens in mexico is not really my business or concern.

I never said Cartels aren't in the US and organized. I'm not sure where you read that... You sound mad that you got disagreed with but whatever.

Let's accept your "they pay in dope amigo" argument and examine that....

So your saying that a Cartel dude would rather pay the equivalent to $1000 in dope for a product they can pay $100 in dope for? Huh? Africans don't like dope?

Yeah your gonna need more than that to change my mind. Calm down princess.



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[redsox]

Not mad in the least. I'm having a good few days and i'm pretty happy. And i'm generally very calm. I don't see how that came off as otherwise. ????? I'll ignore the "princess" shot and move on. Africans? I'm not following your logic. As far as "$1000 in dope" its all very reactive to where the dope is and who has it. Drug trafficking economics is a very elaborate and confusing field. In reality, it all comes back down to supply and demand as well as the price of risk. There is no shortage of money in the game and there is always a demand for guns. Now, I don't know a lot about the gang culture that doesn't pertain to drugs. I cannot wrap my head around why people shoot each other over shoes and hats. What I do know is the relationship between guns and drugs. This is far afield from the discussion of scooter and his violated rights, but i'm happy to continue this way. Also, what am I changing your mind from? I'm lost.


I never said Cartels aren't in the US and organized. I'm not sure where you read that... You sound mad that you got disagreed with but whatever.

Let's accept your "they pay in dope amigo" argument and examine that....

So your saying that a Cartel dude would rather pay the equivalent to $1000 in dope for a product they can pay $100 in dope for? Huh? Africans don't like dope?

Yeah your gonna need more than that to change my mind. Calm down princess.



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[fabiodriven]

Don't get all revved up now Chop!

[Scootertrash]

Don't get all revved up now Chop!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnhgvOd5BY

[Scootertrash]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwH85gFOVVQ

[redsox]

Is that why you think I'm mad? Because of the use of "amigo?" Thats funny. I still don't see what the argument is. Is it your position that "legally" purchased guns do not get out on the street as illegal guns? i didn't think that was even debated. Is it? Is that something that people think?

[bkm]

Straw purchases are a real problem here in St. Louis and it happens just how Redsox described it. I know a couple of people who have worked at local gun stores and they watch these girls buy guns for their banger boyfriends and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it, but they know where they're going. The bangers know how to play the game and exploit the system. I have arrested a few guys with guns who are felons and that is exactly how they got their guns. Of course they wouldn't say how until ATF records showing who purchased the guns (yeah, that form you fill out at the gun shop, big brother already has a registration going) comes back to some 21 year old female.

[sledcrazyinCT]

https://youtu.be/pq1TXEE_QK4[/URL]

Always a market somewhere

WOW five a month at $120 each.

[sledcrazyinCT]

Pop five rounds into the ground and off to the black market,

[ironchop]

Is that why you think I'm mad? Because of the use of "amigo?" Thats funny. I still don't see what the argument is. Is it your position that "legally" purchased guns do not get out on the street as illegal guns? i didn't think that was even debated. Is it? Is that something that people think?


I still don't see what the argument is. Is it your position that "legally" purchased guns do not get out on the street as illegal guns? i didn't think that was even debated. Is it? Is that something that people think?

I don't see it either.

I never said people don't straw purchase guns to give to others inside this country. Happens all the time.

What i meant was the whole official story that the drug cartels or foriegn criminals are getting MOST of their guns from American stores is nonsense. We were talking about your claim guns are shipped OUT of America for the criminal underworld. That's political fake news as usual. I'm not sure where we started talking about domestic guns. You claimed most illegally purchased guns are shipped OUT of America and I know that this is not true at all.

You also said most guns used illegally are straw purchased...again not true. They are stolen.


Someone also claimed above that it's hard to catch a straw purchase.....not true again. The ATF or store owner merely denies the sale and doesn't bother to prosecute for attempting to break the law. I know a gun store owner who's always catching people and he actually turned down a sale recently to a friend of mine because he misunderstood. Austin's mom was buying him a rifle for his birthday present. The store owner was suspicious and refused. Also is true with lying on your yellow form. They catch people but then they opt not to prosecute. The fact that Scooter said he was mentioned for buying 5 receivers from the ATF looking over his dealer's records proves my point. The agent obviously believed he was either straw purchasing for others or he was building guns for illegal resale. There's no other legal precedence to show concern.

Guess what? He didn't show up at scooters house to follow up did he? Nope. Just made the comment and left.....that's how they handle investigations and possible wrongdoing. Make a comment and walk away. Now obviously scooter is on the level but it doesn't trouble you that an agent suspected illegal activity but did nothing?

This is how these people "slip the the cracks"....they don't really, someone just chose to look the other way.

On the other, I ain't mad. I thought you were but I guess my perception was wrong. My bad.


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[ironchop]

.... I know a couple of people who have worked at local gun stores and they watch these girls buy guns for their banger boyfriends and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it, but they know where they're going. .

That's just it...there is something that can be done. EVERY gunstore owner has the right to refuse a sale. I know plenty who have but then again I've never lived in MO.

Any dealer who says "my hands are tied" is full of crap.


https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-06-17/dealers-choice-gun-store-owners-can-deny-anyone-they-want

This whole issue stems from:
1) criminal POSs
2) people with authority choosing not to do their job


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[bkm]

That's just it...there is something that can be done. EVERY gunstore owner has the right to refuse a sale. I know plenty who have but then again I've never lived in MO.

Any dealer who says "my hands are tied" is full of crap.


https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-06-17/dealers-choice-gun-store-owners-can-deny-anyone-they-want

This whole issue stems from:
1) criminal POSs
2) people with authority choosing not to do their job


Sent from my Z958 using TapatalkI totally agree, but without painting myself into a corner here, the climate in St. Louis as it pertains to race relations is kinda different here than most of the country since the Ferguson debacle. I imagine the blowback would be huge for refusing to sell a gun to someone who on paper can legally own one, based off the color of their skin or where they "think" it may end up.

BTW the gun stores in question were Cabelas and Bass Pro. Not your average mom and pop store that would probably have no problem denying sales to potential straw purchasers. These big box stores aren't going to wade in the race waters.

[redsox]

What i meant was the whole official story that the drug cartels or foriegn criminals are getting MOST of their guns from American stores is nonsense. We were talking about your claim guns are shipped OUT of America for the criminal underworld. That's political fake news as usual. I'm not sure where we started talking about domestic guns. You claimed most illegally purchased guns are shipped OUT of America and I know that this is not true at all.

To clarify, I don't know about MOST of the cartel guns in mexico, where they come from, and as stated, i don't much care. I'd like to stick to domestic policy. I will say I do know that MANY of the illegal guns on the streets in this area end up packed and shipped to the Dominican Republic. They pack them in the doors of refrigerators and load microwaves and washing machines with them and ship them out. It happens al the time. A constant flow. There are used appliance stores operating next door to shipping businesses. Its wild. Next door to that is the barber shop that sells the drugs and next door to that is the clothing boutique that launders the cash. Next door to that is the Tax Prep place that defrauds the Government and next door to that is the lawyer who eventually ends up with the cash. Anyway,,, forget all that. I'll try and stay focused.


You also said most guns used illegally are straw purchased...again not true. They are stolen.

I'm sure you have a stat to back that up, and i'm guessing that that stat is misleading. Let me throw a little scenario by you. We'll just pick names at random, to make the story more interesting. Lets say Glamy is a junky. Not a gang guy, not a robber or a murderer, but a junky. Hurt his knee playing high school football, pain pills, now he's on the shite and he can't shake it. Now, in order to support his habit, he gets 10-15 guns in a year's time to his dealer Nico Suave. Now Nico is a drug dealer, who needs the guns for protection, but he's not a real bad actor. So, it's not cowboys-and-indians-shoot-em'-up time, but eventually one of Nico's stashes gets hit by Special Agent BKM and they find one of the guns. They run the trace and it comes back to Glamy. When Agent BKM asks Glamy about the gun, what is Glamy likely to say? Is he going to say, "I made a straw purchase and traded the gun for heroin, please charge me with the felony" OR is he going to say "I checked and the gun got stolen." "As a matter of fact, Agent BKM, just realized that all 15 of my Hi-Point 9MM handguns are missing!! STOP THIEF!" Agent BKM knows he's lying and checks his record. Seems that Glamy has been pinched 4 times for possession since his gun-buying days. Something smells rotten. What can BKM do? NOTHING. Now there are 15 "stolen" firearms out on the street. Stats lie.



Someone also claimed above that it's hard to catch a straw purchase.....not true again. The ATF or store owner merely denies the sale and doesn't bother to prosecute for attempting to break the law. I know a gun store owner who's always catching people and he actually turned down a sale recently to a friend of mine because he misunderstood. Austin's mom was buying him a rifle for his birthday present. The store owner was suspicious and refused. Also is true with lying on your yellow form. They catch people but then they opt not to prosecute. The fact that Scooter said he was mentioned for buying 5 receivers from the ATF looking over his dealer's records proves my point. The agent obviously believed he was either straw purchasing for others or he was building guns for illegal resale. There's no other legal precedence to show concern.

I think it was me that said that, and I misspoke. By "catch" I don't mean its difficult to tell who's making straw purchases, I mean its difficult to do anything about it.


Guess what? He didn't show up at scooters house to follow up did he? Nope. Just made the comment and left.....that's how they handle investigations and possible wrongdoing. Make a comment and walk away. Now obviously scooter is on the level but it doesn't trouble you that an agent suspected illegal activity but did nothing?

Are you saying Scooters already-trampled-upon rights should have been further violated with more questioning and a home visit? An inspection perhaps? Sounds like the Gestapo is in town. Scooter is gonna get mad.


This is how these people "slip the the cracks"....they don't really, someone just chose to look the other way.

What would you have "them" do if you were in charge? What is the solution here Chop? President Chop's policy on gun sales would be........?


On the other, I ain't mad. I thought you were but I guess my perception was wrong. My bad.

No worries buddy. Its hard to pick up someones tone via print. For future reference, I tend to hover between cautiously optimistic and sarcastic. :beer


Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

[bkm]

Why does the "latino" have to be the drug dealer?

[knappyfeet]

I don't think that it was, but i'm not opposed to the possibility that it was. Thats the difference.

Have we all figured out what happened yet? Was it the lonely kook who chokes hookers?....... was it the Honey-ko?..........The mystery honey-ko?.......the friend from down under with the drone?

How about the coordinated attack spraying gunfire throughout casinos on the strip?......the coverup?

[redsox]

Why does the "latino" have to be the drug dealer?

i thought he was Dutch

[redsox]

Have we all figured out what happened yet? Was it the lonely kook who chokes hookers?....... was it the Honey-ko?..........The mystery honey-ko?.......the friend from down under with the drone?

How about the coordinated attack spraying gunfire throughout casinos on the strip?......the coverup?

Was it a coverup Knapp? The steam seems to be out of that engine.

[fabiodriven]

Was it a coverup Knapp? The steam seems to be out of that engine.

I don't think so. The flock has merely moved on to the next distraction.

[Scootertrash]

I don't think so. The flock has merely moved on to the next distraction.

Exactly. There are too many elements to the coverup than the majority of America has the attention span to stay focused.

When does the next season of Honey Boo Boo start? Did you see what that one guy did on Wild Alaska? OMFG!

[Scootertrash]

He's not the only actor glamster ;)

[redsox]

I am tempted to get into the conspiracy theory debate but i'll resist. I'll bite if its in another thread, but not here. This gun control nonsense is all over the place, and I'd like to talk about that. If we go the other direction we'll be at 9/11 and the moon landing before you know it.

[ironchop]

I am tempted to get into the conspiracy theory debate but i'll resist. I'll bite if its in another thread, but not here. This gun control nonsense is all over the place, and I'd like to talk about that. If we go the other direction we'll be at 9/11 and the moon landing before you know it.Yeah it gets too much to even fathom at this point. Seems like we're all being bombarded from everywhere with shady behavior, media inciting general dissatisfaction in everyone about everything.

I'm not for gun control but it confuses me when the shooting is a handgun, nobody says ban the handguns. ARs are scary looking to people thanks to our violence obsessed entertainment industry programming people so of course, they get the hammer when the mob breaks out their pitchforks

I really don't want to believe in conspiracy theories either but they are making a more compelling argument in some cases than the "official story"... others not so much. The thing about this particular shooting is that it had so many inconsistencies and the media has been kinda hushed. Officials aren't offering and answers either.

If this WAS staged, I want to puke because people who do stuff like that will do anything and that means we're all screwed.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[redsox]

You forgot JFK & Sandy Hook !......your thread talk about what you want......nothing wrong anywhere just move along .........don`t question authoroty

There is a lot wrong in a lot of places,,, and i'm always down to talk to glamyyyyy, but i just don't want to get all mixed up here and travel down already beaten paths.

[fabiodriven]

I am tempted to get into the conspiracy theory debate but i'll resist. I'll bite if its in another thread, but not here. This gun control nonsense is all over the place, and I'd like to talk about that. If we go the other direction we'll be at 9/11 and the moon landing before you know it.

That's right Dan, nothing to see here, just move along. There is no pattern to see and it's silly to think anyone could get away with anything when the last atrocity is forgotten as soon as a new one pops up. Now move along.

[Scootertrash]

Well, since this is the thread about what happened in Vegas, then this would be the place to discuss any conspiracy theories as you would call them, about the incident. The 'Bigger Picture" thread is the one for gun-control debate.,

[redsox]

i thought the op of that thread specifically didn't want to talk gun control.

[Scootertrash]

"I feel bad for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's the best they're going to feel all day." Frank Sinatra

[Scootertrash]

Nun the less ........WTF WAS THAT ? .........Police state staged ?...........you are for gun control .......it would make your job a lot easier..........but WE know it`s the only thing that keeps you honest ! Background checks = eenie - meenie - minie - moe ..........it`s an ugly world ........let your children deal with it..........it`s a different shooting but whats up with this ? CNN actor ?


That boy is Podesta's bich. Student my arse, he's a paid activist.

250635

[sledcrazyinCT]

That boy is Podesta's bich. Student my arse, he's a paid activist.

250635

This student's father is also former FBI.....I guess he was having trouble remembering his script before the CNN town hall with the NRA last week


250638

250639


http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/david-hogg-cant-remember-his-lines-florida.mp4

[redsox]

Nobody tells Glamy what to post and nobody puts Baby in the corner. I will talk about whatever you want, I just thought it would be nice to talk about one subject without breaking out the tinfoil hats.

[Scootertrash]

FWIW, Just because something sounds far fetched doesn't make it tinfoil or conspiracy. ;)

Days after this last shooting we know everything about the shooter, still virtually nothing on the guy who shot up Vegas.

[fabiodriven]

Nobody tells Glamy what to post and nobody puts Baby in the corner. I will talk about whatever you want, I just thought it would be nice to talk about one subject without breaking out the tinfoil hats.

Guys, Dan simply doesn't like you having your own thoughts. It's no big deal. Just think what you've been told and everything will be fine. Always remember, Oswald did it, we didn't fire first at the Gulf of Tonkin, and I swear there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It's likely that someone just misplaced them or something. Now move along, nothing to see here.

[ironchop]

Guys, Dan simply doesn't like you having your own thoughts. It's no big deal. Just think what you've been told and everything will be fine. Always remember, Oswald did it, we didn't fire first at the Gulf of Tonkin, and I swear there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It's likely that someone just misplaced them or something. Now move along, nothing to see here.I never got that impression of Redsox. Sure, my impression of his opinions or inflections has been wrong before on a few occasions, but on this, I think that he is simply playing the role of skeptic. That's pretty important for any group, lest it become nothing more than an echo chamber where we all state the same things and high-five each other for our righteous opinions which I get comfortable doing too sometimes...but that's just me.

If it weren't for skeptics, we'd all believe the "official" accounts of everything so I do value those opinions whether or not I agree with them. I don't agree with Redsox on alot of things but I'm fine with him being the village skeptic.

Confirmation bias is a real @#$&€¥πcker of a habit to break

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[ironchop]

Hmmmm........

https://truepundit.com/fbi-insiders-blow-whistle-massive-las-vegas-cover-agents-told-not-investigate-key-evidence-including-isis-terror-link-mandalay-bay-massacre/

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[Scootertrash]

There were rumors and pics of Mr. Paddock protesting in a "pink pussy" hat and a couple other protests with ANTIFA present. It's been too long and I probably can't find them any more.

I'll just add this:


The former King of Saudi Arabia King Faisal had a brother named Salman and a son named Alwaleed. The King took ill and named his brother Salman the heir to the throne. This upset his son so much that they were staging a coup to kill the new king's son, the Crown Prince, who was next in the line of succession, Mohammed bin Salman (MbS). Meanwhile in Las Vegas, the shooter was staying on the 32nd Floor of Mandalay Bay, a floor owned by the former King's son, Alwaleed (along with Bill Gates), who owns the top floors called the Four Seasons, and which has a separate entrance and access to separate elevators. Paddock was a deepstate pilot and a gun runner (between the Philippines and the U.S.). He made millions selling guns to the Saudis Royal son, Alwaleed, who believes in strict Islam (Wahhabism - terrorists). He didn't make the millions gambling. King Faisal wanted a more moderate and peaceful Islam and that's why he made his brother, not his son, the new ruler. Salman is a Sunni Muslim - peaceful. Meanwhile, the first person killed in the Vegas Massacre was actually Paddock. The "white hats" of the FBI received an anonymous tip that there was going to be a large exchange of firearms at Mandalay Bay. That was why there was 9 FBI agents checked into Mandalay Bay that night. But they didn't know about the coup and assassination attempt of the Crown Prince that was going to happen. THE KICKER! Salman was in Las Vegas staying at the Tropicana Hotel. The attack on the country music concert was designed to be a distraction so they could kill the Crown Prince. After Paddock was killed, the guns were used to shoot down at the crowd below, and at the gas tanks across from the venue. The shooters in the Mandalay Bay escaped through the heli-pad on the roof through the jammed stairwell, and used their helicopter to also shoot more people. There was also a gun battle between HRH's guardsmen and the mercenaries, who were shooting from several positions around Vegas at different hotels, and they used people as human shields on the ground. The Crown Prince barely escaped with his life, leaving Tropicana in a helicopter. All the mass arrests and purges in Saudi Arabia over the last 4 days has been to put down everybody involved in the plot to overthrow the kingdom. The Las Vegas terrorist attack was indeed Islamic. This may be why the shootings in Las Vegas happened the way that they did (and yes, there was more than just one shooter, at multiple positions, including in helicopters, and around the different hotels, and even at the airport, which was across from the venue,

Another rumor is that the Heir Apparent, Mohammed bin Salman, the one they allegedly tried to kill, "dresses down" when going out in public to blend in with the common folk, so he wouldn't have been all robed up.......

Just in case:

250944

Here's a link to the Saudi Arabian arrests:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-04/shocking-purge-saudi-king-arrests-billionaire-prince-bin-talal-others-anti-money-lau


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=49&v=niBgnjtMSsg

[Scootertrash]

One persons speculation:


Just remember 4 names: Salman, Mohammad, Muqrin, and Mansour.

Do you remember how President Trump visited Saudi Arabia back in May of 2017? Do you remember how warmly he was greeted by King Salman? I do. It was a spectacle. Why was he greeted so welcomingly? After all, President Obama's reception was... shall we say, less than grand. Do you remember how after Trump's visit, Saudi Arabia started becoming more open in their policies? Women can drive there now. Did you notice how the Syrian rebellion became quiet? Did you notice how quickly ISIS was crushed after the visit? Why did Saudi Arabia suddenly want to get their oil companies listed on the NYSE? What could have caused this?

To answer this, we have to look a little further back. Back to around 2010.

It all goes back to fracking. You see, the Kindom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) has always relied heavily on its vast petrol reserves for wealth and prosperity. And they were ruthless. OPEC. The cartel of gasoline. You can't count the number of times throughout history that OPEC used its power to crush governments, manipulate prices, control supplies, and fund activities. If there ever was a international group of bullies, OPEC was it. And at the head of this organization was the mighty KSA.

Then came the fracking boom. Suddenly, the world was no longer at the mercy of OPEC. This made them nervous. So, they did what they always do. They pumped out more petroleum, driving the price of gas to lowest in decades. What was their objective? To bankrupt these fracking businesses. KSA is rich. Very rich. They figured, we'll just drive gas prices unbelievably low and take the loss until all these fracking business startups crumble. Do you remember how cheap gas got between 2013-2016? It was ridiculous, wasn't it? But what they didn't count on was just how cheap fracking had become. So many of these business didn't go bankrupt. So they took another step. To convince the world that fracking was bad for the environment. So they lobbied and supplied funds to the Democratic party. Why? Because the leftist are usually the ones who support ANY and ALL environmental regulations. Do you remember all the legal battles that fracking had to go through? Hell, it's still illegal in most blue states. Do you now understand why the Saudis donated so much money to the Clinton campaign? She was HEAVILY favored to win and if she did, you can bet your ass that illegalizing fracking would have been on the top of her list, returning us to dependence on arab oil. But... this didn't work either. Fracking continued. And then, a shitstorm of reality hit them hard.

You see, KSA had vastly underestimated the amount of total shale reserves in North America. They had no idea that so much of this stuff exists. They thought maybe they could ride it out if the reserves would dry up in a decade or so. But nope. We have enough shale to supply us for at least 50 years. Hmmm... big problem.

So, if you're King Salman, what do you do? Well, there's only one thing you can do. Give up the reliance on oil production and try to use existing wealth to stay wealthy. To modernize its trade to include more than just exports of oil. They would need to build an entire industrial country from scratch. To do that, he needed the help of the USA. And that's where President Trump comes in.

You see, the May 2017 meeting between Trump and King Salman (and his son Mohammad), was not just another meeting. It was a business meeting. King Salman asked Trump for help. Trump was more than willing to give it (like listing the oil companies on the NYSE) but his help would come with a price. Liberalization and the stop of illegal funding. No more contributions to American politics. No more supplying funds to terrorists or splinter groups. King Salman took the deal. All of a sudden, women were allowed to drive. ISIS was retreating. Syrian rebels suddenly ran out of ammunition. Yay. All good up to this point.

Now comes the bad

Not all the royalties in KSA are into this. They don't like losing the power they once had. What's worse, they don't want to become liberal. They now start resenting King Salmon. They start plotting against him. At the forefront of this movement is none other than the previous Deputy Crown Prince, Muqrin, and his son, Mansour (the man killed in the helicopter crash of 11/5/17).

October 1, 2017. The top floors of Mandalay Bay isn't Mandalay Bay, but is Four Seasons, owned by billionaire Talal. Who was occupying that whole floor that night? I can't remember where, but I heard that the whole floor was reserved for that week. Now, no one would do that unless they were Saudi royalty. We don't know for sure, but my guess is Crown Prince Mohammad. We know it wasn't King Salman, because he was in Russia at the time. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/05/saudi-russia-visit-putin-oil-middle-east

The plan is to take out the crown prince. Then kill King Salman. With the King and the Crown Prince dead, who is next in line? Yup. The former deputy crown prince, Muqrin. So, posing as terrorists who wanted to buy the guns for some terrorist attack, they dupe the CIA or FBI to supply the guns to the death squad. Their real plan is to climb the stairs right after the deal and kill the VIP in the floors above them. This is why the weapons cashe was located on the 32nd floor. They would only have to climb a few stairs or take the elevator up a little to start the killing. Now, here's what happened that night:

** With the post from u/kneejerk55, I have modified the events of the night. I think it fits much better**

Paddock is the contact man to supply the guns. He meets a couple of assassins ahead of time (remember, the shooting starts at 10:05). At this point, Paddock is thinking this is a gun deal. Only a few magazines are loaded. He merely wants to show the customers how to load the chamber etc... What he doesn't know is that the advance team was sent to secure the floor. That all but one entry point to the floor would be barricaded (crucial since the reason Campos becomes suspicious of the blocked doors is what ultimately leads him to investigate) The reason for the barricade is that once the assault starts, the assassins want to make sure to impede the authorities as much as possible from reaching the top floors.

CIA/FBI (or Trump's own intelligence) got wind of the assassination that was about to take place. Immediate action is taken to round up the assassins. Remember, we're talking about an army of assassins here. You can't kill a Crown Prince who's protected by 30 armed bodyguards by pulling a Jack Ruby. I estimate at least 20 assassins in total.

What the assassins didn't know was that the prince had disguised himself as a regular dude to enjoy the nightlife in Vegas. (Saudi princes have been known to do this) He had slipped away from the Mandalay and was at the Tropicana playing some cards. As soon as the FBI (or some other agency) learned of the assassination plot, they stormed the Tropicana and extracted the prince. The video can be seen here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVHmshtmDqo They lead him out of the casino and escort him to the nearest helipad to be picked up. BUT, on the way, they encounter some resistance from a few assassins. Hence the firefight at the airport. Eventually, he makes it to the chopper and is whisked away.

Meanwhile, the FBI has gathered up as many of the assassins as they can. A few are armed with sidearms. They don't have rifles yet because the rendezvous with Paddock hasn't occurred yet. Hence the random firefights at various casinos that night. A few are killed. Hence the Laura Loomer videos of covered up dead people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxAZIpSUuM

The assassins already in Paddock's room gets a call. They are told that the Prince is not in his suite above. That he's being escorted out of the Tropicana. They start panicking. If they get caught in this plot to assassinate the crown prince, not only are they dead, but their employer is dead as well. They come up with a plan. They will kill Paddock and start firing on the crowd below. They're gonna make him a crazy lone gunman. So they kill Paddock. They break a window. They pick up a rifle and start firing at the crowd below. After a couple of mags, they realize that the other mags aren't loaded! Holy trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro. They start reloading as fast as possible. This is why the average time between bursts of fire is over 40 seconds. One of them gets an idea. Let me go to the other room and break that window and shoot at the fuel tanks at a nearby airport. This will draw the police away from the Mandalay and they can escape. So he goes and attempts just that. Unfortunately, the tanks do not blow up. By this time, Jesus Campos is knocking on the door. So they just unload on him. This is why there are (supposedly) 200 shots through the door. Campos escapes a lethal shot and calls in security.

Now the assassins are getting nervous. They realize that someone in the hotel knows that someone is firing. They fire as much as they can. They are thinking as soon as this barrage is done, we run. But the swat team starts knocking on the door. trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro. The assassins realize they're screwed. So the first one shoots himself. (This is the first of the single shots you hear at the end). The second assassin isn't so sure. He doesn't want to die. So after 10 seconds of courage gathering, he shoots himself as well.

The SWAT team bursts in and finds 3 bodies. They start asking questions. But because the FBI is already there (remember, they extracted the prince) they take over. They quickly assess the situation. They realize the implications. They remove the 2 assassins bodies, take a picture of Paddock lying there, and release it to 4chan to solidify their narrative.

Paddock is made the patsy. Why? Because if a failed Saudi assassination attempt was responsible for the deaths, if the FBI/CIA had supplied the guns that killed 58 innocent people (not counting Paddock since he's an asset), then two things would happen. One, we would demand that we go to war with Saudi Arabia. And two, which ever organization that Paddock worked for would be utterly dismantled.

Wew lads, I know. Quite a story. Now, let's fast forward to one month later.

We know a missile was intercepted by the Saudi military on November 3 or 4th. This was probably the final effort by the anti King Salman group. This was their last ditch effort to kill him. OR, it was staged to give King Salman the excuse to round everyone up in retaliation of the assassination attempt. We know that MASSIVE raids and the rounding of Saudi princes took place on the 5th. I will guarantee you that all these people are anti Salman/Mohammad. And who was just killed? Yes. The son of Muqrin, Mansour. Mansour's death was retaliation. I have no doubt of it. He was executed.

Ok, now that this has happened, what's next? Well, my guess will be that we will learn all of the funding that has been coming out of Saudi Arabia for the past decade. It will expose their connections to the DNC. We will learn that they have been at the root of all the turmoil in the Middle East. Then, they'll all be executed.

Do I win the award for the longest post ever at /r/conspiracy? Thanks for reading.

P.S. The story works just fine with Paddock as a private illegal guns dealer, meaning the FBI/CIA only helped to foil the assassination attempt. He doesn't have to be working for an alphabet agency. However, given the clues from his life style (or the utter lack of it), I'm betting that he was an asset.

James Bond to the courtesy phone, Mr. Bond to the courtesy phone please!

[El Camexican]

Great stuff. I want to see the hotel videos. If they don't ever release them ALL it simply fortifies what you've posted.

[Scootertrash]

Well, I guess it's settled now:rolleyes:........

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/aug/03/sheriff-no-motive-no-2nd-shooter-in-las-vegas-mass/

[El Camexican]

What a load of sh*t. I guess we don’t get to see all the videos until those suing the hotel get to court. That is if they even get the chance.

Personally I don’t believe the hotel deserves to be held liable, but that seems to be the only way all the footage would ever get released, after all America is the nation of litigation.

The hotel did release a little footage, but it seemed to be just for public opinion purposes. Particularly the one showing the cops in the stairwell. If I’d been personally affected by this I’d want to see him unpacking his car, who he gambled and talked with for a week prior anywhere in LV and anyone entering and leaving his room as well as any roof top cameras.

The technology for facial recognition combined with all the video in Vegas should make that it possible to track his moves around town, but lawyers and money probably won’t let it happen.

[ironchop]

Well, I guess it's settled now:rolleyes:........

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/aug/03/sheriff-no-motive-no-2nd-shooter-in-las-vegas-mass/That's the biggest crock of sh*t I've ever heard

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[Scootertrash]

Wut?! No fecal references?!! All the previous ones must have wiped you out;)

No such thing as a conspiracy. We've all been told that right on this website.

So where do we start to clear up all these "conspiracies"? Pearl Harbor? JFK? Bay of Tonkin? 9/11(cuz it haz such a special place in your heart), Fast and Furious? Clinton related "accidents" and "suicides"?

All of them have resulted in deaths of innocents. Are any of them more or less important than others?

Seems to me we'd have to eliminate all of the conspiraTORS from positions of power and influence, no?

And how do we accomplish that? Many here claim "My vote don't count, elections are rigged", so that's out.

Armed uprising? Once again, according to many here: Ain't gonna happen, Our puny little weapons and bullets could never overcome our military, I have a family to raise, can't risk my life, etc, etc, etc.

Many here have expressed concern for what their childrens future might hold, but don't have time to do anything to change that outlook, what with soccer games, softball games, pro sports play-offs, NASCAR, Dancing With the Stars, and Alaskan Hillbillies.

I guess we're just fa Q d

If only there were something, just the slightest glimmer of hQpe, even if it was a long shot. What would we have to lose? Seriously, at this point what do we have to lose? We've been kicked in the nuts and had it jammed up our collective arses so many times already what's one more time?

Bah, nevermind. Let's just keep swirling around the bowl, bouncing off all of glamys little skid marks stuck to the sides. Don't forget to bring some sprinkles wid ya.....


ETA::Bounce:Bounce:beer:beer:drool::cry::pics::p:r olleyes::wondering:(mymint87Hoosier Daddy

[El Camexican]

Yeah, Glamy that’s exactly where somebody that wanted to harm the rights of gun owners would choose to do it. Right in the middle of one the highest concentrations of cameras in the world. Next.

[fabiodriven]

Yeah, Glamy that’s exactly where somebody that wanted to harm the rights of gun owners would choose to do it. Right in the middle of one the highest concentrations of cameras in the world. Next.

That's exactly the point and as usual you're playing your part. Highest concentration of cameras in the world yet no footage outside of what they deem fit for public consumption, or whatever fits their story best. In Nico-Land that makes perfect sense right?

As Nico said, nothing to see here, you shouldn't be concerned. Move along Americans, the Canadian-Mexican is telling you it's over so don't concern yourself with your country, your fellow countrymen, your children, or the future of this place. It was only your forefathers who worked so hard for this, nothing to see here. Don't investigate, don't question anything, and if you have a concern, simply submit it to Nico and he'll relay the vanilla message.

Don't forget, everything is good, grab a cheeseburger, the game will be on soon. Now move along.

[Scootertrash]

This is right up scootertrash and Elcabrones alley ............a complete vanilla world no explanations ..........nothing to see here move along...........there couldn`t possibly be any conspiracy to take away your gun rights..........and Mr. Paddock was a regular guy ! :wondering:Bounce:rolleyes::Bounce:wondering:rolle yes::Bounce:wondering:rolleyes::Bounce:wondering:w ondering:rolleyes::Bounce:rolleyes::Bounce:wonderi ng:cry: and never ever get high on anything ......the body is their temple .........Oh my !

I'm guessing you missed my :rolleyes: after the opening comment. Or! maybe I need my sarcasimeter calibrated.

It's 'nilla awright.

253858

[Scootertrash]

Sounds fishy to me, so I'll just leave this here:

253860

:Bounce:Bounce:beer:wondering:w00t:

[El Camexican]

That's exactly the point and as usual you're playing your part. Highest concentration of cameras in the world yet no footage outside of what they deem fit for public consumption, or whatever fits their story best. In Nico-Land that makes perfect sense right?

As Nico said, nothing to see here, you shouldn't be concerned. Move along Americans, the Canadian-Mexican is telling you it's over so don't concern yourself with your country, your fellow countrymen, your children, or the future of this place. It was only your forefathers who worked so hard for this, nothing to see here. Don't investigate, don't question anything, and if you have a concern, simply submit it to Nico and he'll relay the vanilla message.

Don't forget, everything is good, grab a cheeseburger, the game will be on soon. Now move along.

I’ll remind you yet again, that the president of the United States was unable to get a blowjob in the oval office without the entire world finding out about it. Ponder that and then ask yourself what the odds of this Vegas thing or 911 going down without enough evidence to convince the majority of Americans that either was perpetrated in their entirety by the government.

So how have you been? I thought you were gone for good. I put a like by your post.

[fabiodriven]

I’ll remind you yet again, that the president of the United States was unable to get a blowjob in the oval office without the entire world finding out about it. Ponder that and then ask yourself what the odds of this Vegas thing or 911 going down without enough evidence to convince the majority of Americans that either was perpetrated in their entirety by the government.

So how have you been? I thought you were gone for good. I put a like by your post.

Anyone who considers the personal sex life of the president as actual news... (And I'm not talking about sex crimes, human trafficking, and pedophilia) "News" like that is a soap opera, a distraction. It's supposed to catch your eye and be on your mind, which it is.

There is more than enough evidence but you refuse to see it. There's only one place on earth I've ever seen steel beams turn to dust, but that's no big deal really. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean nobody else does.

[El Camexican]

There is more than enough evidence but you refuse to see it. There's only one place on earth I've ever seen steel beams turn to dust, but that's no big deal really. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean nobody else does.

Steel to dust? Thought you were promoting some sort of chemical meltdown a while back?

FACT, just because you watched some videos doesn’t make you an expert, in fact it might even make you gullible. Now start making the videos yourself, and physically demonstrating the science behind your “Knowledge “ and you’ll have my attention. Until then my opinion is just that; mine. If I want a tinfoil hat like yours I’ll let you know.

[El Camexican]

I didn`t think you were a ball buster before Nico ..........why why why you gotta bust balls ? ..........the only video "we" have is what you and everybody in the entire fouking world has ..........look at the "collapse" of tower 2 any video you choose ........the debris falling away from the side ........DISAPPEARS before it hits the ground right before your BALLBUSTING eye`s ..........are you Jewish ?

When did the 911 thread jump over here anyway? No matter, lets just keep free styling. How about posting some more photos of Walmart’s on the Moon and some nice frosty pyramids?

I don’t think I’m Yiddish (small nose). Why?

[El Camexican]

Who cares there`s only 2 or 3 others on this forum anyway !..........now when the shark bites off the Zombie`s arm and sh!ts it out............is it Zombie sh!t ?..........or shark sh!t :wondering:wondering:wondering:wondering

Thats s great question. I’m going with shark sh*t cuz when I eat corn it comes out like corn, but on a different cobb and it looks like sh*t.

Hey, you were a plumber, what’s the unions stance on corn waste?

[Arky-X]

Never mind that sh!t ............IT`S SHARK WEEK !!!

Sharks watch Chuck Norris week