Synthetic Two Stroke Oil Warning

[El Camexican]

I spent last night learning (the hard way) that synthetic two stroke oil containing esters are hygroscopic. Warning to everyone using this stuff, don’t just park your toys and leave them sit for extended periods with this oil inside!

All my engines get rotated at least once every 2 months and in the case of this one it has never sat longer than 4 months without being run. That said the main beatings in this engine are pitted, the crank throws have rust spots on them and even the wrist pin has a couple small pits in it. Now everything that moves will need to be replaced instead of what should have been just a top end job.

After a pressure wash I always start my bikes and make a lap around the block, but I guess I may not be revving them up enough to blow out all the water droplets in the cases and after doing some reading I found out that unlike conventional two stroke oil that would protect the metal from a little moisture, this synthetic stuff draws water in and allows the metal to rust instead of protecting it.

This set of internals has only seen Motul T2 oil and there was no sign of any of this the last time I did rings in it. I’m a little scared to peek in my Tri-Z and other dirt bike as neither have been run for over 7 months.

I plan to keep using the oil because it leaves almost no deposits on power valves and piston & ring wear is minimal compared to other oil I’ve tried, but I am going to start running the engines up to operating temperature at least once a month from now on.

Photos are coming…

[El Camexican]

Hard to tell, but every single ball and roller is pitted as well as the inner and outer races.

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[schlepp29]

Wow, thanks for sharing that. I never paid attention but I use honda hp2 in mine, I'm gonna have to look and see what type of of oil it is

[El Camexican]

Started fixing

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[350for350]

Man that sucks! I feel bad for you.

[El Camexican]

Man that sucks! I feel bad for you.

Don’t. I had a fresh spare engine that was swapped out for this one, so no down time and no rush to rebuild it. I am glad I didn’t leave it on the bench for 6 months though, it would have only gotten worse. Besides, the rod was probably going to be due in another 50 to 70 hours.

[fieldy]

Great! Wonderful! Terrific!
My RM probably looks just like that. Love the Bel-Ray, guess that high priced stuffs gonna get the best of me. Definitely has sit a few spells. Hope it wasnt put in the trikes i bought. Always some bs. Awesome!

[El Camexican]

Great! Wonderful! Terrific!
My RM probably looks just like that. Love the Bel-Ray, guess that high priced stuffs gonna get the best of me. Definitely has sit a few spells. Hope it wasnt put in the trikes i bought. Always some bs. Awesome!

Take a deep breath and count to 20 LOL! Unless you wash your bike and don’t run it up to opertaing terms after you might not have an issue.

[fieldy]

Take a deep breath and count to 20 LOL! Unless you wash your bike and don’t run it up to opertaing terms after you might not have an issue.

Machines sit on gravel and the condensation is horrible. Sometimes the engines are wet a sop. Maybe a tarp on the gravel floor would help. I have the carb and intake off a tecate and the sock crammed in there. The rings were stuck after about 8 months and i had pulled the plug and coated cylinder with extra 2 stroke oil to prevent it. Only took about 20 minutes to unstick it.
That sealed up ready to ride synthetic oil engine rm has not stuck yet. The moisture in this Indana air is something special. I will just have to start it more and this winter my others will be run after thorough testing. Thanks El Camexican, ineed a shot already,lol.

[El Camexican]

Machines sit on gravel and the condensation is horrible. Sometimes the engines are wet a sop. Maybe a tarp on the gravel floor would help. I have the carb and intake off a tecate and the sock crammed in there. The rings were stuck after about 8 months and i had pulled the plug and coated cylinder with extra 2 stroke oil to prevent it. Only took about 20 minutes to unstick it.
That sealed up ready to ride synthetic oil engine rm has not stuck yet. The moisture in this Indana air is something special. I will just have to start it more and this winter my others will be run after thorough testing. Thanks El Camexican, ineed a shot already,lol.

Sorry to hear that man. I'm not going to let stuff sit anymore either and I want to get something called engine fog that's sold at marine dealers in case I plan to store something for a while.

[bkm]

Sorry to hear that man. I'm not going to let stuff sit anymore either and I want to get something called engine fog that's sold at marine dealers in case I plan to store something for a while.Used fog for years on my ski's. I'd start the engine and shoot it into the carb until it died. Then I'd pull the plugs and Douche the cylinders. The next year I'd replace the plugs, hit the primer a few times and they'd fire up. Usually they'd run like hell until the fog is burned out.

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[ironchop]

The moisture in this Indana air is something special.

I couldn't agree more. When I lived up there and worked at machine shops around central Indiana, you couldn't leave the doors open on the shop alot of times because that humidity would flash rust your freshly-machined parts in under 24hrs if you didn't dip them in rust inhibitor quickly.



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[fieldy]

Hard to tell, but every single ball and roller is pitted as well as the inner and outer races.

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Lot of questions.....
What bike did this pitting occur in? How did you realize it was that oils fault? I would have never guessed the oil, i would have figured cheap metals and ethanol gas. Can an engine be ran in that condition or just fix it to prevent a catastrophe later? Will a bearing just come apart shortly causing severe damage? What would likley happen to this engine, bearing siesure?

Thinking run some regular non-synthetic mix before putting away for seasonal storage. Problem is the rm runs on 50/1 bel-ray and how in the world would i know how to mix a non-synthetic in the right ratio that would run long enough to ride it and warm up without getting it to lean and siezing the motor? Wouldn't be the same ratio, right? Wouldn't want to jet for the non-synthetic.

Got a headache yet?
Would fogging oil get into the whole crankcase covering all the places the synthethic oil has coated? Good question there huh boys!

I know just start it and warm the oil every month........the answer.
Got to buy gas and keep fresh mix and drain carb and take out plug and.....fog it and....oh yeah use non-ethanol gas always too..

[fieldy]

Used fog for years on my ski's. I'd start the engine and shoot it into the carb until it died. Then I'd pull the plugs and Douche the cylinders. The next year I'd replace the plugs, hit the primer a few times and they'd fire up. Usually they'd run like hell until the fog is burned out.

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Did you run synthetic oil in your ski's? 2 or 4 stroke?

[bkm]

Did you run synthetic oil in your ski's? 2 or 4 stroke?I ran whatever was cheapest, but mostly plain ole valvoline 2 stroke oil.

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[El Camexican]

Lot of questions.....
What bike did this pitting occur in? – KTM 300 EXC with about 70 hours on the rings, 140 on the piston and 240 hours on the rod and crank bearings (based of odometer and divided by 30mph ave.)

How did you realize it was that oils fault? – As soon as I saw the rust on the crank I googled “synthetic two stroke oil rust”

Can an engine be ran in that condition? – Sure. I just put 120 miles on it a few weeks ago. The red flag went up when I ran out of fuel after consuming over ¾ of a gallon more than the trip normally takes and ended up walking a ways. I monitor my mileage intensely and as soon as it starts slipping off I know I have a problem. If the air filter is good I pull the pipe and look for blow-by on the piston. If I have a dark ring and the rings have more than 1,500 miles on them its time. Each piston gets two sets of rings. Could go more, but then my cylinder will pay and that’s worth at least three sets of pistons and rings to re-plate.

Fix it to prevent a catastrophe later? – Absolutely. ANYTHING can happen with pitted ball bearings. Could luck out and run the thing for another 200 hours, or it could have packed up the next time I started it. I hit 85 MPH a couple times on this last trip. Can’t say I would have gone over 40 had I known what the bearings looked like.

Will a bearing just come apart shortly causing severe damage? – Could. Best case scenario the bearings start to chip apart and the crud starts to cause wear in other areas. I have some scratches on my piston skirt that likely came from particles getting on the sleeve and under the piston. Eventually the mains will get loose enough that the seals start to leak and that can cause a seizure. That is if the connecting rod bearing outlasts them, which in my case it probably would have. Hard to tell until the crank comes apart, but I can’t see any pitting on the pins at the moment.

What would likely happen to this engine, bearing seizure? – I think we already know. The bearing debris started to ruin the piston & rings and resulted in a 20% decrease in fuel economy. Next thing would likely have been a really loud rattling engine and a crankshaft seal leak, it could have also been an instantaneous bearing seizure. Ya never know until they blow!

Thinking run some regular non-synthetic mix before putting away for seasonal storage. Problem is the rm runs on 50/1 bel-ray and how in the world would i know how to mix a non-synthetic in the right ratio that would run long enough to ride it and warm up without getting it to lean and seizing the motor? Wouldn't be the same ratio, right? Wouldn't want to jet for the non-synthetic. – Don’t over think oil ratios. It’s listed on the can and in your manual. Anything between 20:1 and 32:1 would give you a nice coating and unless you’re doing tractor pulls with it to get it up to temp you can’t possibly damage it.

Got a headache yet? - Yes
Would fogging oil get into the whole crankcase covering all the places the synthetic oil has coated? Good question there huh boys! – No idea. I don’t even know that running a few ounces of non-synthetic oil would displace the synthetic oil from all the surfaces.

I know just start it and warm the oil every month........the answer. - Yep
Got to buy gas and keep fresh mix and drain carb and take out plug and.....fog it and....

I want to point out that there were previous signs that this was happening. I even posted some way back. First was that a brand new carb had a white fuzzy coating on the inside of the bowl above the fuel height and the zinc had corroded off one of the inner retaining screws. Another was that I parked another bike (same model, same fuel) for a couple months and when I went to use it the float bowl was full of water and the tank had water in it as well. It was as though there was alcohol in the fuel, be we don’t have ethanol down here. Instead it seems it’s the oil that is hygroscopic.

Humidity level is usually 20 to 40% here. It doesn’t rain much and my shop never feels humid. As well, The last time I pulled this engine apart there wasn’t a spec of rust in it, so I remain convinced that the pressure washing and not burning out the moisture from the cases is the main issue. If it was strictly a Motul oil issue it would be all over the Internet.

[Doug8765]

Maxima 927 20:1 best oil if you dont let it sit


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[Rob Canadian]

I used to fog my outboard engines. I have had a couple over the years. Small and a little larger. (9.9HP-60HP 2 strokes) It is great for storing a 2 stroke engine and yes it will coat anything in the air passage all the way to the exhaust.

You can buy a spray type. Works well. Again as said spray it into the carb at a increased idle. Spray until it dies.

[fieldy]

You know alot about your bike El Camexican, think i learned some stuff in this thread by the way you told about the symptoms and others told about theirs.Pretty slick!
You even answered the question i forgot but was going to ask, do they have ethanol gas in Mexico. Nope! You should get a tanker and sell that to us in the USA. Shoot if it's the old gas with lead, i'd pay double.

One things for sure i douched the Tecates' cylinders and stuffed plastic and old socks in the intakes after spraying some liquid wrench in the spark plug hole and through the intakes while kicking them over by hand. That will have to do for now but I've got a hot date with them girls this winter!

Edit:i used liquid wrench lubricating oil in there.

[fieldy]

I ran whatever was cheapest, but mostly plain ole valvoline 2 stroke oil.

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Planning on using that same Valvoline in the rest of the motors that were manufactured in the 80's. It is on the shelf now.

[christph]

I'm just learning about this now so I did a quick internet search. Amsoil blames engine rust on fuel with ethanol in it (made from corn), not their synthetic oil (don't know about other brands). This makes sense as I've heard ethanol has a high percentage of water. Maybe when you combine ethanol with hydrophilic sythetic oil, you get a double whammy? Here's the Amsoil link:

https://www.oildepot.ca/does-amsoil-dominator-two-stroke-oil-cause-rust/

[Scootertrash]

Ethanol is also allegedly hyrgoscopic. I run non ethanol as much as possible.

I recently downloaded the Pure Gas app to show me local stations with non-ox fuel. I haven't really tested it yet, but it's an option for you guys who want to avoid ethanol.

[El Camexican]

Ethanol is also allegedly hyrgoscopic. I run non ethanol as much as possible.

I recently downloaded the Pure Gas app to show me local stations with non-ox fuel. I haven't really tested it yet, but it's an option for you guys who want to avoid ethanol.

Ethanol, methanol and synthetic esters for sure. I’ve also found water in race fuel that was only exposed to air for a week. I don’t know what is in it (VP14) that drew the water in, but it happened a couple times during a particularly humid summer.

[bkm]

Planning on using that same Valvoline in the rest of the motors that were manufactured in the 80's. It is on the shelf now.As a broke teenager, it was the cheapest stuff around and I trusted the valvoline name. Not once did it ever let me down.

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[El Camexican]

As a broke teenager, it was the cheapest stuff around and I trusted the valvoline name. Not once did it ever let me down.

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Esso 2 stroke oil, after I saw "Imperial Oil" sampled on the bottom of a Yamalube jug. :lol:

[fieldy]

Ethanol is also allegedly hyrgoscopic. I run non ethanol as much as possible.

I recently downloaded the Pure Gas app to show me local stations with non-ox fuel. I haven't really tested it yet, but it's an option for you guys who want to avoid ethanol.

I have a 100 gallon tank with a hand pump . I have 92 octane without ethanol for all of our small pumps motors. I try to run some of it through them before the tanks get drained for the year. Try to spray some wd-40 in the carbs too. I cant find any 93 octane non-ethanol from our local gas companies which is what i would buy. I guess i could add some octane to it but as you can guess, I'm no scientist.
I will check that app, I'd travel for it.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I'm not really surprised by this although not happy that it happened to you neighbor.

I used to run Amsoil Dominator in what is now my big bore R thinking it was the best I could give it. Then when I tore it down to do my big bore project after it was only run a couple months prior I found a light coating of rust on EVERY steel component inside the engine. Nothing was pitted, but it had this weird coating of brown stuff I can only describe as being dust-like in appearance that wiped off easily but still left a knot in my stomach. I ended up doing new crank bearings for the build anyway, but the crank got as good an inspection as I could conduct. Did some looking around and found this to be a relatively common issue with at least some of the full synthetics. I am sure that if left to sit for a longer duration of time it would have been worse. It was during this process that I discovered that printed right on the bottle of Dominator it states (paraphrasing) "for use in high performance engines that are periodically disassembled and inspected". That should tell us something I think.

After some digging around and seeing recommendations by known reputable builders I switched to Maxima 927 Castor and have not had any issues. Only thing about castor oils as far as I am told is that it does not work well at below freezing temps. I don't ride in winter so this is a non-issue for me.

All in all I think that generally speaking, mineral/castor oils offer much better corrosion protection for those of us who do not race our machines weekly.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I'm just learning about this now so I did a quick internet search. Amsoil blames engine rust on fuel with ethanol in it (made from corn), not their synthetic oil (don't know about other brands). This makes sense as I've heard ethanol has a high percentage of water. Maybe when you combine ethanol with hydrophilic sythetic oil, you get a double whammy? Here's the Amsoil link:

https://www.oildepot.ca/does-amsoil-dominator-two-stroke-oil-cause-rust/


They are full of male bovine excrement. Neither of my R's have seen a drop of ethanol since I have owned them and I had the exact problem with Amsoil and no trouble at all with Castor oil.

I haven't bought Amsoil in several years now and maybe they have pulled the "warning" from the label. But check a bottle of Dominator and see if there is anything that says something about recommended for use in engines periodically disassembled and inspected.

[3Razors]

Good report El Camexican. I have tried to tell people your same findings for years now, but nobody ever seems to care. I'm big in the jet ski scene and rust on the crank/bearing surfaces is a major issue in the off season with synthetic oils, same with the snowmobile crowd. People can do their own searches on those forums if they like. A few crank builders in those industries will void their warranty if full synthetic oil is used. Jet skis always have it the worst, because of all the moisture they have in the engine compartment and exhaust.

I wrote off synthetic oils a long time ago in 2 strokes for that reason and also because they do not contribute to the combustion process process as much as semi synthetic or castor based oils that make more hp. But thats a whole other saga that I'm not going to get into because, once again people don't listen.

For people that still run the stuff. Make sure you "winterize" your motor in the off season by pouring an ounce or so of regular dino 2 stroke oil down the spark plug hole and rotate the crank a couple times to get the oil on the bearing surfaces. Good ol Supertech TCW3 watercraft oil from walmart works great for this. Spraying fogging oil down the carb throat body and spark plug hole is recommended also.

[fieldy]

What about switching back to non-sythetic from full synthetic oil in a daily driven v-6 automobile engine, yeah, i put it in my truck too. Forehead palm smack.

Kind of a different subject but probably some wondering same thing since we all gotta have a four tire money pit thing to get around anywhere.
Thankful i didn't put it in the Cummins.

[bkm]

Planning on using that same Valvoline in the rest of the motors that were manufactured in the 80's. It is on the shelf now.

I ran Valvoline in my 250r for years before I pulled it apart to put a new piston in it and it looked brand new inside. Actually, its still oem crank and bearings on mostly Valvoline oil all it's life. When I swtiched to the ESR 310 I ran Klotz Benol, and noticed no difference in wear.

I ran Bel-Ray MC1 in my Banshee's and it's a semi synthetic that I really like and have had no issues with.

[bkm]

I still use MC-1 @ 50;1 if i can find it it`s getting scarce.........it`s dry as a bone here has`nt rained since last MarchI've got 4 bottles left from a case my old man bought me 20 years ago.

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[swampthang]

I run Shell Rotella T 15w-40 in the crankcase and Klotz Snowmobile Techniplate TC-W3 with Non ethanol 93 octane in my R. Its claimed to be a storage oil sense a sled usually sets for months unused. Best part is the famous klots smell and zero exhaust smoke after warm up. If it was gonna set for along time Id find some kind of engine fog just for piece of mind and maybe kick it over every once in awhile to keep it moving.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

What about switching back to non-sythetic from full synthetic oil in a daily driven v-6 automobile engine, yeah, i put it in my truck too. Forehead palm smack.

Kind of a different subject but probably some wondering same thing since we all gotta have a four tire money pit thing to get around anywhere.
Thankful i didn't put it in the Cummins.

I myself don't believe that there is any issue switching back and forth between mineral and synthetic automotive engine oil. I have heard the old wives tails about how you can't go back to mineral if you've run synthetic and I believe it to be 100% hogwash. Wanna know why?? They sell synthetic blend motor oil. If they transformed into some engine killing substance when combined, then why is blended AKA semi-synthetic motor oil sold at every parts store?? I've never gotten into all the hype for synthetic in my vehicles. My main concern is using the correct weight and changing it at proper intervals.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

How about 10000 mile oil changes with the "miracle" of synthetic oils? OK, lets just assume that the oil itself does hold up for more hours/miles... But you still get all of the contaminants generated by the engine. You know, all that stuff that gets used oil labeled as carcinogenic and must be transported as hazardous material.

IMHO, synthetic=scam for the most part.

[barnett468]

Or install a bypass filter.

Group IV and Group V oil have the highest shear resistance and for all intents and purposes are basically shear free. Group III Synthetic can contain as little as around 20% Group IV and/or Group V oil and still legally be called synthetic. The remainder is non synthetic oil which requires friction modifiers to make it a multi viscosity oil. These these friction modifiers are basically tiny strands of polymer which literally get cut into smaller pieces by the engine which then reduces their ability to make the oil multi viscosity at which point it becomes a lower viscosity oil more similar to a single weight oil. All additives used in engine oil are mixed with conventional oil for the carrier, therefore, there is no true 100% synthetic oil made for vehicle engines.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR AND THE ONLY PERSON ON 3WW WITHOUT AN EDIT BUTTON OR A STAR

[El Camexican]

How about 10000 mile oil changes with the "miracle" of synthetic oils? OK, lets just assume that the oil itself does hold up for more hours/miles... But you still get all of the contaminants generated by the engine. You know, all that stuff that gets used oil labeled as carcinogenic and must be transported as hazardous material.

IMHO, synthetic=scam for the most part.

I think BWW recommends 20,000 on the Mini Cooper.

My wife’s old Mercedes was 10,000 miles, but consider that the German stuff uses large gauze oil filters with large surface areas and in some cases over 8 liters of oil. Amazingly the wife’s oil was hardly cloudy until it had over 8,000 miles on it.

Personaly I think the biggest reason that oil changes have been extended is fuel injection. Lot less fuel contamination compacted to any carbureted engine.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I think BWW recommends 20,000 on the Mini Cooper.

My wife’s old Mercedes was 10,000 miles, but consider that the German stuff uses large gauze oil filters with large surface areas and in some cases over 8 liters of oil. Amazingly the wife’s oil was hardly cloudy until it had over 8,000 miles on it.

Personaly I think the biggest reason that oil changes have been extended is fuel injection. Lot less fuel contamination compacted to any carbureted engine.

See now that is a little different. If the engine manufacturers are making the engines themselves more capable of going longer between service that is the true game changer. Higher oil capacity does it's share to help in the idea too.

I remember when I was still trucking for a living, my brother in law drove for another company who adopted the policy of synthetic oil and 60k mile oil change schedules.... that's 60,000 miles, I didn't typo. My company was still doing it "old school" with conventional oil and 20k service intervals. He had more engine trouble with his 250k mile truck than I did with my 900k mile truck. I know it's a small test sample but I found it interesting regardless.

The synthetic oil makers have to claim SOME kind of advantage over conventional to justify the higher price... longer engine life (assuming it's true) is something that 90% of real-world people will never personally find to be true or not as most people don't keep their vehicles that long.

[3Razors]

Must remember that auto manufacturers really only make cars to last around the 100k miles mark. That is mileage that MOST (not all) people trade them in or sell for the latest and greatest or whatever reason. A car that has its oil changed every 7500-10000 will hit this mark or even a little further. But will it go 250-700k miles???! doubtful imo compared to one that has its oil changed to every 3000 to 5000 miles. Then there is the one size fits all 0w20 viscosity recommendation straight across the board which is a load of BS!!

There is alot of shiz going on in the auto industry right now with heavy government politcs and EPA forces ruining the possible longevity of cars. New cars today are like appliances, pop the hood and plastic and electronics everywhere! Must remember that the auto companies don't want you to keep that vehicle for 20 plus years, they want you to buy another one for more $$$ to their bottom line sales.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Must remember that auto manufacturers really only make cars to last around the 100k miles mark. That is mileage that MOST (not all) people trade them in or sell for the latest and greatest or whatever reason. A car that has its oil changed every 7500-10000 will hit this mark or even a little further. But will it go 250-700k miles???! doubtful imo compared to one that has its oil changed to every 3000 to 5000 miles. Then there is the one size fits all 0w20 viscosity recommendation straight across the board which is a load of BS!!

There is alot of shiz going on in the auto industry right now with heavy government politcs and EPA forces ruining the possible longevity of cars. New cars today are like appliances, pop the hood and plastic and electronics everywhere! Must remember that the auto companies don't want you to keep that vehicle for 20 plus years, they want you to buy another one for more $$$ to their bottom line sales.

That's many of the reasons why my main squeeze is a 40 year old Chevy. No idea on what the mileage is, it only has a 5-digit odometer :D

But I have to be honest, it's only my daily driver in the non-winter months up here in snow country.

[barnett468]

For those that don't know this, the main difference between conventional (non synthetic) and synthetic (non conventional I suppose) oil is the uniformity in the size of the molecules. In short, the molecules are like tiny ball bearings. The molecules in conventional oil vary in size meaning that there will be several different size molecules within ever bottle of oil. The molecules in every bottle of "full synthetic" oil would be the same size if it did not have any additives in it but since it has additives are blended with conventional oil as the carrier, and the molecules in conventional oil are not all the same size, even "fully" synthetic oil does not have all the same size molecules but since the percentage of additives is never more than around 20%, at least 80% of the molecules in "full synthetic" oil are the same size.

Since not every molecule in conventional oil is a different size, it too would have some of the characteristics of "full synthetic" oil, however, there are no tests posted of the percentage of molecules in conventional oil that are the same size. Since the molecules function similar to ball bearings, the parts ride on the larger molecules (ball bearings) thereby rendering the smaller molecules ineffective to some degree. In general, the more ball bearings that are between 2 opposing surfaces, the less force it takes for these surfaces to slide past each other which means there will also be less friction between them. This is the main reason that engines get better mileage with "full synthetic" oil then they do with a conventional oil of the same viscosity.

In theory, if the additive packages and viscosities of a conventional oil and a full synthetic oil are exactly the same, the engine that uses full synthetic will last longer and get better mileage.

For those of you whom may have an oil fetish like I do, you can get a ton of info from the site below.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/


If you want to have your oil tested to determine it's overall condition and monitor the rate of wear on your engine, you can have it done at a lab. The one below is used by many people. This applies to transmission oil as well.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/


Damn, all this talk about oil has got me all lathered up now. Think I'm gonna have to grab the Wesson and the wife and test out its friction reducing properties. :lol:

Below is a spreadsheet one person did of his oil tests so you can see the info the lab provides.

This has been a public service announcement. :)


https://i.imgur.com/y3bMRHG.jpg



PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR AND THE ONLY PERSON ON 3WW WITHOUT AN EDIT BUTTON OR A STAR :Bounce:

[El Camexican]

On the topic of the longevity of vehicals...

How many stock and otherwise road worthy vehicals are you personaly aware of that suffered a mechanical engine failure prior to 100,000 miles? I can only think of a couple and they both relate to human error.

When I was flipping trucks I came across many that had over (converting KM to miles here) 200,000 miles and ran great. I even drove a 1987 4 cylinder Ranger from Canada to Mexico that showed 540,000KM on the ticker. That’s like 330,000 miles. I have no way to know how many engines it went through, but not a single wire was out of place and none of the nuts looked like they’d seen wrenches. It hummed and rattled pretty good, but used less than half a quart of oil on the 2,200 mike trip.

I guess what I’m trying to say is it’s been my experience that most vehicles are ending up at the wreckers due to crash damage and chatastrofic electronics failure more so than worn out mechanical engine parts.

Vehicals referring to cars and trucks. 4 stroke bikes are another story LOL!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Ford Ranger, practically indestructible little trucks..and this coming from a GM man! LOL!

[El Camexican]

One has to love the spare time that comes along with a four day weekend.

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[roll on 3]

Very nice, I started using maxima K2 this year mostly from reading the bottle says it has extra rust protection? runs good but 927 smells better.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I ran some of my leftover 250r mix (60% 91 E-free, 40% Sunoco 110 and Maxima 927 at 32:1) in my chainsaws recently... made me want to put the saws down and go braappin'!

[fabiodriven]

I've been using Golden Spectro since I first started to ride, 25 years now. People always ask me why I still use Golden Spectro and I always ask them why they aren't.

[roll on 3]

I did use spectro from the beginning and then went to bel,ray mc51, now I just experiment with different oil mostly just notice my silencer has more or less spluge. Performance hardly notice difference.

[El Camexican]

I've been using Golden Spectro since I first started to ride, 25 years now. People always ask me why I still use Golden Spectro and I always ask them why they aren't.

Ever use it on a power valve engine? Just wondering as PJ1 Gold plugged my PV up so bad I had to grind the crud off. This Motul leaves a thin crust on the PV in the low velocity areas and the high velocity areas clean up to bare metal with a rag.

Lot of pro level guys swore by Golden Specto back before there were PV’s, but aside from one non PV engine never seen what a well used Golden Specrto motor looks like.

[fabiodriven]

but aside from one non PV engine never seen what a well used Golden Specrto motor looks like.

That's because they never need to come apart.

I don't have enough time on an engine with a power valve to know. I'm pretty sure the only power valve equipped engine I've ever had is our 86 KX500 powered 85 Tecate and that wasn't run very long.