How long can it idle? 84 200M

[Burchoid]

1984 Honda ATC 200M
I believe the tank is around 3G.
How long, theoretically, could this thing sit idling before the gas runs out?

How many gallons per hour does the 200cc idle consume?

Is it 'bad' for any part of the engine to idle for long periods of time?

I ask because I am going to be running and gunning ice fishing spots in -20F weather, and I think it may be better to let it sit and idle for 10-20 mins at a time instead of killing it and having to start cold again. Negative temps with a slight wind pulls the heat right out of the block very quickly. Cold starts from negative temps are possible, but it takes a little finessing of the choke before everything is back up to operating temp and running smoothly.

[barnett468]

It will probably idle for 12 hours on 3 gallons. 20 minutes might use 6 ozs of gas but that is just a guess.

Oil pressure is low at idle but so is the load on the engine so I wouldn't worry about it providing you have extremely good oil in it at those temps, so now that I mentioned oil, hopefully we can turn this into an oil thread. :lol:


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[schlepp29]

Have you Minnesota guys ever considered putting some sort of blanket around the engine area?Kinda like the antique tractors use to . I always even thought a soft cab would be neat. Just a thought

[Burchoid]

I am using 5W-40 heavy duty synthetic, I think Delo 400. Maybe I should use 0W-40?

[DAM shop]

I am using 5W-40 heavy duty synthetic, I think Delo 400. Maybe I should use 0W-40?

I don't have a 200 but sounds like to me you could lighten up on the oil weight that would help for sure.. that thick oil in those - temps turn the oil into goo ..
As far as idle time goes all the manuals I have ever read say that prolonged idling is not good or recommend..
I can check a manual for oil weight next outing to the DAM shop .

Checked the manual, the book says 10-30 or 10-40 below -0

[barnett468]

I am using 5W-40 heavy duty synthetic, I think Delo 400. Maybe I should use 0W-40?

Holy Jesus, that crap will be like tar at 20 below zero.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR AND THE ONLY PERSON ON 3WW WITHOUT AN EDIT BUTTON OR A STAR :Bounce

[lndy650]

I wouldn't leave it idling for that long prolonged idling is bad for a few reasons including wet stacking.

[barnett468]

.
This is one of the oils I would consider. From what I can tell it is a true Group IV PAO oil and likely has a high zddp content, however, I would call them first to verify if it is compatible with your wet clutch.

...............https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/jgr-03406_ml.jpg

PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR AND THE ONLY PERSON ON 3WW WITHOUT AN EDIT BUTTON OR A STAR :Bounce

[lndy650]

All oils that are compatible with a wet clutch have JASO MA on the label

[barnett468]

All oils that are compatible with a wet clutch have JASO MA on the label

That is incorrect, there are also oils that did not pay for the JASO or MA certification that do not have Jaso or MA on the label that are compatible for a wet clutch such as the oils they were using in these older bikes before there were JASO and MA certifications for them. If an oil does have JASO or MA on it then it is compatible with a wet clutch.


PREVIOUS KAWASAKI INTERNATIONAL R & D PROJECT ENGINEER AND ATV DEPARTMENT SUPERVISOR AND THE ONLY PERSON ON 3WW WITHOUT AN EDIT BUTTON OR A STAR :Bounce

[lndy650]

the last few posts prove you had no idea what JASO MA even was until i mentioned it.
just what i want an oil made by a company too cheap to pay for a certification!

[barnett468]

the last few posts prove you had no idea what JASO MA even was until i mentioned it.
just what i want an oil made by a company too cheap to pay for a certification!

I copied this to prove that it is in fact you whom are trolling me in case you try to go back and edit it.

You are again wrong because my post does not prove what you are claiming it does and your comment is inflamatory (although I think it is amusing) and is intended solely to cause trouble instead of benefiting the op like my post does with FACTS.

FACT - Most people here know very well that I know what the terms JASO and MA mean and have for many, many years.

FACT - Just because an oil mfg does not pay the exorbitant price for a JASO MA certification, it does not mean that it is a low quality oil.


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[Jd110]

Burchoid, I suppose you take a shelter and heater for yourself. Have you thought about sheltering the wheeler. Up in Alaska, we had construction tents (like what they use for manholes or utility boxes) with a heater, that worked great. Do you guys use heet in the fuel at those temps or something else? Here's one idea: https://www.google.com/search?q=construction+tents&start=40&client=safari&sa=N&channel=iphone_bm&biw=375&bih=559&tbs=vw:l,ss:44&tbm=shop&prmd=sinv&srpd=13573271892637424545&prds=epd:18270487798306855917,paur:ClkAsKraX9QhPW0 OLbB_s-UIAaZH5Z2mKPYJwF6V-EEKAMjIDohXzHDeNb5CLltcPpiVYxQO8Cs3t7Gd7rn5OJK2lFs 2KEl_L_gzYDCTA5NxbBXI9LJFrjf2kRIZAFPVH72c8Jt55VtVa zLiJwuPSBfDMA69Qw,cdl:1,cid:4216833325638076321&ved=0ahUKEwi3irTak67YAhUprVQKHZXlD_g4KBCBNgjjBQ

[BarnBoy]

Whenever I ran my 200m up in Ontario in the winter it sucked to start it at -25. Sometimes it took 20 pulls. But usually it started up in less than 5. I would let it idle a lot because I didnt want to start it over and over. Never had an issue, but I would definitely want some good oil in there. I used 10w-30, I guess I could have run a thinner oil like 5w-20 or 0w-20 but I didnt really think about it. I would just run with whatever oil the service manual recommends for those temps. And make sure it it safe for wet clutches and you should be good to go.

[lndy650]

you wont notice the damage caused from prolonged idling but the wet stacking i mentioned earlier, well, what happens is at an idle the combustion burn efficiency goes down considerably and you end up with unburnt gas sneaking past the rings through the valleys of the hone marks. this causes gas to get in your oil but the even worse effect of this is that the gas washes the oil of your cylinder walls and causes premature ring and piston wear. years ago when i bought my first brand new snowmobile i loved it dearly and i would let it idle for about 5-10 minutes every time i started it cold. I took the topend off to port it around 1000 miles and i couldnt believe what i saw. the coated piston skirts had almost no coating left on them. I installed new pistons and started letting it idle about a minute or 2 and then drove slowly until it got up to normal running temps. You should only idle your engine to warm it up for a short period and then drive easy until its at running temperature.
this wet stacking only gets worse the colder it is out so in your situation it could be a bad idea. Just run a cold weather oil and if you have trouble pulling it over use the decompressor or pull slowly until your just over the compression stroke and then pull.
I hope this helps and all of this only happens over a long period of time so if you wanna leave it idling go for it you might never notice the difference.

[Burchoid]

Took her out again today in 0 degree temps and let her idle when drilling holes to find fish and it worked well.

Cold starts still kinda suck, but it works.

Just to be clear, both 5W40 and 5W30 would be same viscosity when cold, with the 5W40 remaining slightly thicker when warmed up than 5W30. 10W40 is the same as 5W40 when warmed up. So in my mind, 5W40 is better than 10W40 for extreme cold, and maybe a 0W30 (if it exists) would be best. The manual is pretty clear that I should be running a 30 or 40 weight at operating temp.

The 200M has electric start, but ultra cold weather significantly reduces the battery's cold cranking amps down to zilch in a hurry. I topped off the water and gave it a full trickle charge, but its still a puny battery. I am considering buying an AGM or Lithium battery because I also run a 9" GPS plus handwarmers off the battery when the engine is running.

[lndy650]

i have no idea why barnett said 5w-30 would be like tar in that weather maybe he doesnt understand how multi viscosity oil works even though he claims to be an oil expert. i really think 5w30 is fine and would stick with that. as much as 70% of engine wear is caused at cold start up. a thinner oil can reach areas quicker but a thicker oil can coat surfaces better. my belief is that 0 weight oil was designed for better fuel economy and not so much for protection. I think its to thin and doesn't leave a good film. 5 weight while thin enough to reach everything quickly is also thick enough to leave a coating while it warms up and becomes thicker.
This is merely my opinion and the opinion of a few other mechanics i know one of whom is the best certified ford mechanic ive ever known.

[lndy650]

sorry in my posts i was talking like your using 5w30 but i meant to say 5w40

[Burchoid]

So -25F was too cold to start the motor. Hardly any turnover from electric start and it was almost impossible to pull the starter cord. Back to 0F today and she started right up no problem. How can 25 degrees make that big of a difference?

[350for350]

My guess would be that the oil was that much thicker at the -25 degrees, making it harder to turn over.

[lndy650]

ya we established that if you read earlier in the thread

[roostin atc]

Barnett knows his oil!! Everybody always argues about oil, it's pretty comical. Run what you got and fix it wene it breaks. Oil seems to be like a beverage preference, some people swear by bush, bud, Coors and so on and so on. Everybody has a brand and get defensive. All I know is Dr Mcgilicutty flows well at low temperatures.