Help with Honda 110 rear bearing and brake assembly

[JonnyRod]

I am restoring a 1983 Honda ATC 110 and am having trouble assembling the rear brake drum backing plate. I purchased a new Moose bearing and seal set from DennisKirk and am having trouble understanding how the brake drum backing plate mounts to the frame. The lip of the backing plate comes into contact with the bearing seal before it sits flat against the frame. I've attached photos for reference...what am I missing? Note: I have a replacement seal for the backing plate but it is not installed in the photos. Thanks for your help.

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/20190702_063041_zpscwa2atvx.jpg (https://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/20190702_063041_zpscwa2atvx.jpg.html)

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/20190702_063047_zps8p9jd8pf.jpg (https://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/20190702_063047_zps8p9jd8pf.jpg.html)

[coolpool]

I'm having trouble getting my head wrapped around this? Is your center carrier in the right way, i.e. reversed? Or did you push the seal in too far? Or do you have to push your carrier bearing in further?

[JonnyRod]

The bearings are pushed in against the center spacer and the seals are seated against the bearings and flush with the edges of the carrier. The carrier is in the correct direction.

[ps2fixer]

Maybe the bearing is wider than stock? Normally that plate just lays flat against the frame sheet metal and bolts up when the carrier is bolted in, never seen that interference before though.


Looking at some photos, the seal for the bearing appears to seal on the lip of the backing plate, and the center part of the bearing is recessed in further. You can see it best in the last photo of this listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-ATC-110-1979-1982-ATC110-rear-bearing-carrier/173106877924?hash=item284df955e4:g:7RgAAOSwItJaYKr-

[JonnyRod]

Yes, it is possible that the bearings/seals are sized differently from stock, although Moose says that I have the right parts. When I pulled it apart, there was no seal against the bearing...just a seal in the backing plate lip...which did not appear to make an effective seal. I took photo with the seals out to give better idea. The previous bearings were absolutely shot and I have no confidence that the seal was correct.

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/20190702_173635_zpstgc95iq0.jpg (https://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/20190702_173635_zpstgc95iq0.jpg.html)

[JonnyRod]

The gap between the bearing and backing plate lip is to small for the supplied seal. The seal that goes inside the backing plate lip does not extend past the edge of the lip

[JonnyRod]

This is what I've been using for reference and it is not working out for me.

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/c30da537938680d42dd67ab9a5325eff_zpsgyejipfr.png (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/c30da537938680d42dd67ab9a5325eff_zpsgyejipfr.png.h tml)

[ps2fixer]

I just check my 81 atc110 parts, and I have the same plate. I checked the part that interferes on yours for assembly, and it does not fit in that seal. Seems like maybe the plate should go on the opposite way? Seems to make more sense that the axle would go into the seal. Based on the dust etc on the plate I have, it seems like that's the case.

[JonnyRod]

I just check my 81 atc110 parts, and I have the same plate. I checked the part that interferes on yours for assembly, and it does not fit in that seal. Seems like maybe the plate should go on the opposite way? Seems to make more sense that the axle would go into the seal. Based on the dust etc on the plate I have, it seems like that's the case.

I know what you mean but the backing plate can only go on the way I have it...the brake drum cover attaches to it. The brake drum actually seals to the backing plate seal.

[ps2fixer]

I see, I don't really know the 110 model too well and the two I have are apart already.

Service manual doesn't mention anything about washers or anything.
https://i.gyazo.com/862156b902aedf7d8ee685e320fa3680.png


Maybe this video would help? It seems the center part of the plates that stick out goes outward. Not sure what year of machine he's working on though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMX_dTrIrto

[JonnyRod]

Yes, unfortunately, those show different year bikes. The backing plate is a different design. I appreciate your help though...I wish I could get this figured out!

[coolpool]

Might be worth getting an "All-Balls" kit and starting over, this is too simple to be such a pita. I think ultimately, your bearing should go in further with the seal flush with the outside of the carrier. Then the backing plate lip will slide into that seal sealing the backing plate. The backing plate seal will seal the axle. I think you're on to something that it wasn't correct in the first place.

[Hopper055]

I looked at 3 different trikes I have and all of my backing plates are different than your picture. The closest year to yours was a 1982 it got me thinking so. I looked your bearings up on pivotwork's website. It lists the kit for your 110 to be year specific. It shows three different kits one for 79-82 one for 83 and one more for 84-85. Based on the part numbers given it LOOKs like (I do not own a 83 so I am not sure) they omit a seal and include an o-ring. The o-ring measures 31.7 x 36.5 x 2.4. The Honda part number is 91306-MA6-005 if you just want to order that part. Below is a link to pivot works listing for the o-ring found in there kit PN: WSH-076

http://www.pivotworks.com/ProductInfo.aspx?item_id=52288

Here is a link to the full kit they say will work.

http://www.pivotworks.com/ProductInfo.aspx?item_id=5184

I hope this was helpful. like I said I am just speculating biased on the part numbers.

[shortline10]

Hopper is correct , the seal goes in the backing plate not in the carrier , different seal of coarse . This way the backing plate will sit flush .
The 83 110 is an oddball transition year .

[JonnyRod]

I really appreciate the help from everyone. I have a new seal for the backing plate which seals nicely to the brake drum, but does not quite reach the bearing in the carrier. This gap is too small for the provided seal, so it would make sense that an o-ring would seal here. I will order the o-ring and see if this configuration works.

[JonnyRod]

Well...I ordered the whole kit from PivotWorks and what I received is exactly what I already have...with the addition of two o-rings. Now I am even more confused. If I put one of these seals on top of the bearing in the carrier, the backing plate does not sit flush to the frame.

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/20190709_060039_zps02ofgz0n.jpg (https://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/20190709_060039_zps02ofgz0n.jpg.html)

[shortline10]

According to Honda the drum backing plate should use this size seal 42x58x8 , what size do you have with the kits ?
Maybe I’m confused on your description , no lip seal used on the right side of the carrier , install the large O-ring #25 on the diagram O-RING 59.6X1.2 over the lip on the back side of the backing plate and the new lip seal goes on the outer side of the backing plate and sandwich all that together .

[JonnyRod]

Thank you shortline. I have the correct lip seal for the backing plate and I just ordered the large o-ring for the back side of the backing plate (I was missing this).

To clarify...the lip seal in the backing plate gets pushed in far enough to come into contact with the bearing?

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/20190709_195509_zpspsvoseuc.jpg (https://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/20190709_195509_zpspsvoseuc.jpg.html)

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/20190709_195536_zpsiogpt0oy.jpg (https://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/20190709_195536_zpsiogpt0oy.jpg.html)

[shortline10]

No , the lip seal on the backing plate should be installed slightly past flush , you do not want it to rub against the bearing , that will cause premature wear to the lip seal . The large O-ring is what will seal the two together if that’s what your worried about .






Thank you shortline. I have the correct lip seal for the backing plate and I just ordered the large o-ring for the back side of the backing plate (I was missing this).

To clarify...the lip seal in the backing plate gets pushed in far enough to come into contact with the bearing?

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/20190709_195509_zpspsvoseuc.jpg (https://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/20190709_195509_zpspsvoseuc.jpg.html)

https://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/jrs90808/20190709_195536_zpsiogpt0oy.jpg (https://s1043.photobucket.com/user/jrs90808/media/20190709_195536_zpsiogpt0oy.jpg.html)

[JonnyRod]

Understood, thank you. Both sets of bearings I have are slightly loose in the carrier. Moose brand were very loose (slipped right in) and the PivotWorks bearings could be pressed in with my fingers (snug). Is this normal or should I be concerned?

[shortline10]

When the main axle nuts are tightened up all will be good .