Dual Sportster build

[fabiodriven]

Hey guys. This is something I've really wanted to do for a couple years now. I picked up a nice Sportster about three weeks ago in the thoughts that this would be just a fork and shock swap, but it's turned into an all out custom build. Even though I have owned a Buell for quite a few years now, Harley Davidson motorcycles are brand new to me.

Building this bike is not like building a Japanese bike at all. I spent three days on the phone with Sprocket Specialists just for a sprocket, I have parts on order that take weeks to arrive because they have to be built, and I'm fairly positive I've spent more on parts then I paid for the bike. When I'm building Japanese stuff, if I need a part I just open my phone and jump on eBay or Partzilla and the parts are on their way. This isn't like that.

It's an 89 Sportster which was sold to me as a 1200. Unfortunately, I found out yesterday it's an 883. It was an honest mistake from the seller and I didn't know enough to check. The price was right, it's super low miles, and it's in really nice shape. He actually lost money on the deal so I decided to just keep it. Plus it's in a million pieces right now anyways so... It is what it is. A lot of people have a lot worse things going on in their lives right now so I'll be fine.

So the basic lift is an XL600R front end which has the same diameter 39mm forks as the Sportster. Easy enough. The rear uses 15" shocks, which wasn't enough for me, so I ordered a set of lift blocks as well. I had to beg for those. They were sold out but the guy dug up a set somewhere for me. I'm very grateful to him for doing that. That was Hugh's Hand Built.

The 21" Honda XL front wheel is much larger than what comes on the Sportster. Ideally I'd like a fatter front tire and bigger forks, but this will get me on two wheels for now. The rear was a 16" wheel on my bike, but it's been swapped out for an 18" wheel. This was literally the only rear wheel of the correct size I could find in the country. I saw one company that sold the size I need new, but it's backordered and it's chrome. No thanks. Instead I paid almost $400 for a 40+ year old rim that didn't even come with spacers. It looks like it spent a long time outside lol. It's super heavy unfortunately but it should look good, and again, it will get me on two wheels. Using that wheel required a spacer for the sprocket and I have to cut my own axle spacers.

I painted the tanks myself with Krylon and Rustoleum. The fenders are universal dual sport plastic fenders and the handlebars are from (I'll add this later) and are 1" for the Sportster. All the factory handlebar controls will remain. I didn't cheap out on lighting, got some good stuff. Seat is universal but custom in regards to the stitch color and pattern. Exhaust is hand built in Mexico, I'm one of very few people in this country with this man's exhaust. It's sectional with raw tig welds. The rearset lowset pegs are key to this build and that guy hasn't even been able to start making those yet.

Building a custom Harley tailored to just you is a very interesting experience. I get frustrated sometimes but it's also a lot of fun. I got the rear halfway lifted tonight, waiting on the lift brackets for the full rear lift. Once I get it lifted and get the rear tire mounted, I feel like that's a decent milestone. Where the bike turned a corner and started to become something completely different. It was super gay when I got it so the contrast upon completion will be stark.

I should have opened with this, but you either love this idea or strongly oppose it. A LOT of people dislike this idea, which makes me like it even more. I've even had people try to talk me out of it. I feel like most people I know seriously think I'm weird or off for moving forward with this build. It's like everyone is going by "If you don't have anything nice to say", so people just aren't saying anything lol.

It's likely going to be called the "Corona Bike" even though I'm not crazy about that name. I think it's kind of unavoidable at this point.

So these two pictures ARE NOT my bike. These are examples of what my final product will be like.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200329/300249e75c0ba8b192b18f38e1e77062.png

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200329/bf37ce5881cc328496f84ec5dbb52ce6.png

This is my bike.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200329/2b5b114ed9ecb956ed1cab13de7fd30f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200329/efbc1cd9987c03bb2ba9c3aa407ab2f7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200329/09e98fa90eb640e1a3774c4ea2a4349d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200329/2e44d9d829bf34968be94082972fecaf.jpg

[schlepp29]

This is gonna be an interesting build. A long time ago I kinda wanted to build a flat track bike but I lost interest.

[Shep1970]

Nice, I really like the looks of the top (example) pic orange bike, I’m not sold on the headlight though. The bike you’ve got looks really clean. Good luck

Shep

[ATC King]

Good choice!

For gravel road riding, it can be much more practical that many would think. It's easy on fuel, and has a large oil supply with a dry sump system. More oil helps keep it cool, and the dry sump means a more compact crankcase, which increases ground clearance.

Loads of aftermarket support for the bike, low purchase price, low insurance cost, simple and low tech, reliable, and sounds better than most everything else you'll encounter off pavement.

Bottom end torque is easier to get traction with in slick conditions than top end power. There are quite a few parallel twin engines in new adventure style bikes, but most tend to put peak power above tractability, partly because higher HP numbers on paper, help sell bikes.

Triumph recently redesigned their Tiger engine and call it a T-plane configuration. The crank pins are spaced at 180-90-180, which would cause something like a short pause in the power pulses, to aid in traction.

With all the tech being thrown into top tier adventure bikes, the basic engine mechanicals still have to be designed with useable power in mind. Your Sportster choice has that, and a narrower profile than a parallel or horizontally opposed twin.

Good bikes. We've had a few around here. I ordered a XL1200S the first year they came out, '98 I think. That was the fastest stock bike Harley had at the time. It would leave my buddy's 1200 Custom in the dust.



I almost forgot why I posted. If you want to do the most you can with the XL600R forks, Racetech has Emulators that will fit them. They aren't listed in a search for that bike. They are Gold Valves: FEGV 3801 and need the adapters to work which are AD3802 P Adapters, pair for 3801 Emulators. They'll recommend different sprigs and oil weight based on your needs, so you'd want to contact them for that.

[coolpool]

This is going to a sweet build! Most folks didn't know Harley ventured into the dirt bike market (70's AMF time?) many moons ago but never got into the endure scene; that's where this comes in. You're a pioneer! Have you thought about making it road legal at the same time or was that always the plan?

[schlepp29]

Yeah this is gonna be a killer gravel road bike for sure. I never thought about all the stuff atc king said. Be alot better than the xr650l .

[ATC King]

Be alot better than the xr650l .


Oh dang!


Maybe you mean his XR650L trike though.


My XR650L is in SUMO mode right now, and has some nearly treadless street tires that are sketchy on wet pavement, even worse on the gravel roads they love to put SB2 about five-seven inches deep on, in this state. Absolute pucker mode when it's smooth sailing, then all of a sudden that mess, especially in a turn, which is exactly where they like to put it.

Nearly as bad as being caught off-guard by a field of babyheads.

[fabiodriven]

Good choice!

For gravel road riding, it can be much more practical that many would think. It's easy on fuel, and has a large oil supply with a dry sump system. More oil helps keep it cool, and the dry sump means a more compact crankcase, which increases ground clearance.

Loads of aftermarket support for the bike, low purchase price, low insurance cost, simple and low tech, reliable, and sounds better than most everything else you'll encounter off pavement.

Bottom end torque is easier to get traction with in slick conditions than top end power. There are quite a few parallel twin engines in new adventure style bikes, but most tend to put peak power above tractability, partly because higher HP numbers on paper, help sell bikes.

Triumph recently redesigned their Tiger engine and call it a T-plane configuration. The crank pins are spaced at 180-90-180, which would cause something like a short pause in the power pulses, to aid in traction.

With all the tech being thrown into top tier adventure bikes, the basic engine mechanicals still have to be designed with useable power in mind. Your Sportster choice has that, and a narrower profile than a parallel or horizontally opposed twin.

Good bikes. We've had a few around here. I ordered a XL1200S the first year they came out, '98 I think. That was the fastest stock bike Harley had at the time. It would leave my buddy's 1200 Custom in the dust.



I almost forgot why I posted. If you want to do the most you can with the XL600R forks, Racetech has Emulators that will fit them. They aren't listed in a search for that bike. They are Gold Valves: FEGV 3801 and need the adapters to work which are AD3802 P Adapters, pair for 3801 Emulators. They'll recommend different sprigs and oil weight based on your needs, so you'd want to contact them for that.

You make a lot of very good points there sir! And yes, gravel roads are more what I intend to attack as opposed to deep woods. I feel this bike is going to shine at what I want it for. Funny you mention the emulators, as I just watched a video on those a couple of weeks ago. They seem like a fantastic idea to me. I added an oil cooler even though it has the reservoir. It's probably not necessary but I like oil coolers, lol.

Thank you very much for such an insightful and informative post!

[fabiodriven]

This is going to a sweet build! Most folks didn't know Harley ventured into the dirt bike market (70's AMF time?) many moons ago but never got into the endure scene; that's where this comes in. You're a pioneer! Have you thought about making it road legal at the same time or was that always the plan?

I always wanted this bike to be road legal Pete. Strictly as a dirt bike I'm thinking they're probably less than ideal.

[fabiodriven]

Yeah this is gonna be a killer gravel road bike for sure. I never thought about all the stuff atc king said. Be alot better than the xr650l .

So the bike I was going to buy was an XR650R, not XR650L, but I agree with what you're saying. Either of those Hondas would do better in the woods than the Harley by far, but I think the HD would have the advantage on gravel.

[schlepp29]

Before I bought my xr650l I really wanted the xr650r, and go figure I was looking for one for awhile then I decided to buy the 650l after having no luck and it was a week or 2 later one popped up. I think the Harley could be doable if setup right. But I don't even like mine in woods. Probably cause I'm too short lol.

[ATC King]

Oh yeah, it's going to be a great gravel road bike.

They're not any heavier than the liter sized adventure bikes being bought by discerning Starbucks drinkers today.


An oil cooler is nice addition regardless. Just want to make sure the oil doesn't stay too cool if riding during cold temps. There are manual and automatic bypass valves that can be installed between the lines to prevent that. Got to keep that oil temp up at least enough to get rid of water condensation. The temperature dipsticks for those oil tanks work good, and they're simple.

https://jagg.com/collections/by-pass-valves






Having a more powerful bike, you may be tempted to eek a little more from the 883, but I'd be hesitant to with the small fuel tank. The Keihin CV40 carbs are really good. You could add something like the Yost Power Tube, but it'll probably increase fuel consumption, and I know they may say it doesn't on their website. Experiences will differ, some better MPG, some worse.

Ditching that stock exhaust will lighten the bike up, but that crossover tube does work. A 2-1 system would be ideal. Too large of an exhaust pipe diameter will kill the bottom end power on an 883. I mean make it totally gutless. Some torque cones are probably going to bee needed with any aftermarket exhaust you use. They'll help keep the exhaust velocity up and prevent reversion.

https://cv-performance.com/exhaust-torque-cones

https://cv-performance.com/Shared/Images/Product/Exhaust-Torque-Cones/Exhaust_Torque_Cones.jpg


I don't know what brake fluid that year uses. HD likes to use DOT5 anymore, because it won't destroy paint, but some people find it makes the brakes feel a little less responsive. It's completely incompatible with DOT3,4, & 5.1 though, and is not hygroscopic either (which means moisture will settle in the low spots instead of being suspended in the fluid). I'm mentioning this because you may be running a different brake up front with the different forks and having to use a different fluid for the front and rear would be a little bit of a PITA. If the Sportster doesn't use DOT5, it won't matter.


You having a Buell already, I don't want to sound like I'm preaching to the choir on some American V-Twin stuff. Just throwing some ideas and products out there that maybe you haven't heard about.

[oldskool83]

nead idea...id hate to lay that over at a raised center of gravity

[fabiodriven]

nead idea...id hate to lay that over at a raised center of gravity

Thanks oldskool! Yeah it wasn't intended to be a dirt bike from the factory, so it's not ideal. It's just ideal for me lol!

[fabiodriven]

Before I bought my xr650l I really wanted the xr650r, and go figure I was looking for one for awhile then I decided to buy the 650l after having no luck and it was a week or 2 later one popped up. I think the Harley could be doable if setup right. But I don't even like mine in woods. Probably cause I'm too short lol.

Yes the 650's are really tall! The Harley is definitely not going to be that tall.

[fabiodriven]

Oh yeah, it's going to be a great gravel road bike.

They're not any heavier than the liter sized adventure bikes being bought by discerning Starbucks drinkers today.


An oil cooler is nice addition regardless. Just want to make sure the oil doesn't stay too cool if riding during cold temps. There are manual and automatic bypass valves that can be installed between the lines to prevent that. Got to keep that oil temp up at least enough to get rid of water condensation. The temperature dipsticks for those oil tanks work good, and they're simple.

https://jagg.com/collections/by-pass-valves






Having a more powerful bike, you may be tempted to eek a little more from the 883, but I'd be hesitant to with the small fuel tank. The Keihin CV40 carbs are really good. You could add something like the Yost Power Tube, but it'll probably increase fuel consumption, and I know they may say it doesn't on their website. Experiences will differ, some better MPG, some worse.

Ditching that stock exhaust will lighten the bike up, but that crossover tube does work. A 2-1 system would be ideal. Too large of an exhaust pipe diameter will kill the bottom end power on an 883. I mean make it totally gutless. Some torque cones are probably going to bee needed with any aftermarket exhaust you use. They'll help keep the exhaust velocity up and prevent reversion.

https://cv-performance.com/exhaust-torque-cones

https://cv-performance.com/Shared/Images/Product/Exhaust-Torque-Cones/Exhaust_Torque_Cones.jpg


I don't know what brake fluid that year uses. HD likes to use DOT5 anymore, because it won't destroy paint, but some people find it makes the brakes feel a little less responsive. It's completely incompatible with DOT3,4, & 5.1 though, and is not hygroscopic either (which means moisture will settle in the low spots instead of being suspended in the fluid). I'm mentioning this because you may be running a different brake up front with the different forks and having to use a different fluid for the front and rear would be a little bit of a PITA. If the Sportster doesn't use DOT5, it won't matter.


You having a Buell already, I don't want to sound like I'm preaching to the choir on some American V-Twin stuff. Just throwing some ideas and products out there that maybe you haven't heard about.

Dude you are an absolute wealth of information! I'm very grateful because I know nothing about this bike! The Buell didn't prepare me at all! I'm a bit busy right now but I'm going to reply to your post a bit more in-depth later. Thanks again!

[oldskool83]

maybe id harley really went back to its roots in the dirt conversions they would have more sales. Motors grunty for offroad, ive had them. In an ATV that would be great, or cycle. Little 350 V twin.

[schlepp29]

I'd love to see Harley have race teams for the gncc series. Would be really interesting

[ATC King]

Some of the more recent off-road ventures for Harley-Davidson...


The MT500. There are some floating around in the civilian market.
https://silodrome.com/harley-davidson-mt500-military-motorcycle/

262121


The Buell Ulysses. This was and Adventure style bike, and anyone in HD dealerships at the time, knows they stuck these in the darkest corner they could find, because they weren't 'real Harleys.' Dealership hardheadedness killed Buell.
https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/buell/2008-buell-ulysses-xb12x-ar53810.html

262126



HD is now working on a NEW adventure bike. It's on their website, but isn't for sale yet. The Pan America. A vast amount of the adventure bike crowd cast shade towards HD, because they are closet Americans. The Pan America hasn't even hit the floor yet, and people are knocking it. It'll make a Starbucks run just as good as a GS, and that's a guarantee. A capable PA rider is sure to make mincemeat of any lacking GS, Tenere, Africa Twin, or Tiger rider out there. Same as it's always been.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/pan-america.html?source_cd=SEM_Retention_PPC&_cr=ppc|MICROSOFT|Future_Pan-Am_Brand_E|Pan-Am|harley%20pan%20america&msclkid=9eb9470af2da12ea263c19892740e419&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Future_Pan-Am_Brand_E&utm_term=harley%20pan%20america&utm_content=Pan-Am&gclid=CL_rmpLyxegCFdKgxQIdaJwBEQ&gclsrc=ds


262122

[schlepp29]

I'd love to see one of those in person, I had no idea

[oldskool83]

it's still a very tall machine with a tall wide center of gravity. No one buying that is going to take it off road for any adventure. They need a dirtbike, smaller and slim not made of all iron.

[schlepp29]

Yeah but cruising gravel roads just site seeing would be it's high light imo

[fabiodriven]

Guys I love the banter in this thread and have more to add than I have free time. I'll be posting more substantially when I'm able. Thanks for the replies!

[oldskool83]

the buell was a try but it still used sportbike smooth tires, you fat middle aged men with a 29" inseem wont touch bottom lol

[fabiodriven]

Some torque cones are probably going to bee needed with any aftermarket exhaust you use. They'll help keep the exhaust velocity up and prevent reversion.

https://cv-performance.com/exhaust-torque-cones

https://cv-performance.com/Shared/Images/Product/Exhaust-Torque-Cones/Exhaust_Torque_Cones.jpg



So I came on here to get caught up and post something significant. When I saw this product I knew I needed them immediately, so I figured I'd order a set right quick and get back to the thread.

Welp, lol. I don't know what's going on but I just spent the good part of an hour trying to buy these and I could find no way to get them in the cart! No idea how to use this site. Since I've been staring at my phone for an hour now, I'm done lol. I dare anyone else to try haha!

I'm sorry and I'll post when I can. ATC king your posts in particular are greatly appreciated and I have a lot to respond to, but I appreciate everyone for posting. The bike has been coming along really well!

Edit- they're shut down right now. I'm wondering why they didn't say that on the site instead of just deleting the option to order anything.

[ATC King]

There are other brands. I posted those because the site had a good explanation of the way they function.

[fabiodriven]

There are other brands. I posted those because the site had a good explanation of the way they function.

I was wondering that! I'm going to search right now!

I'm in a pickle right now. This company (Chainsikle) is the only company I've been able to find who makes lowset rearset pegs. I haven't been able to find any from anywhere else at all. Two weeks ago this past Wednesday they asked me to email them in two weeks, so that's what I did Wednesday. Still no reply. These pegs are going to hold me up, I need something to happen with this now. It's Friday now and they still haven't emailed me back.


chainsikle are 4" lowered
http://chainsikle.com/menuitem/viewmenuitemproducts/id/3

Does anyone know of any other places that make lowset rearset pegs? This is going to put a very long hold on this project if I cannot find any pegs.

[fabiodriven]

Goodness gracious so much to add.

ATC King thank you again for all of that. Going by memory, three things stick out. The emulators are something I'll absolutely be looking into. I looked at a Sportster fork conversion and learned all about emulators then. Then I found out that kit didn't fit my forks lol.

The exhaust cones I knew I needed to have once I saw them. Thanks so much for sharing because I didn't know such a thing existed. They're cheap too!

And yes, I did order a 2 into one baffled exhaust. It's hand made in Mexico. From what I can tell there aren't a lot of people in the United States who have this man's exhaust. It's been shipped and currently it's in Mexico City on it's way to me. It took him a couple of weeks to get it out.

Reading back now, I'm going to take a look at the oil cooler controller as well. That's another great suggestion.

Having spent time with my Buell has not translated over to this bike at all, except for me knowing how to check the primary and that's about it. I thought about the Buell Ulysses, but it's not the same as a Sportster Scrambler or Dual Sportster or whatever you want to call it. That Harley adventure bike looks sick!

So the bike is lifted now. I'm giving up on the foot peg situation and giving the pegs that are there a shot. They don't feel awful just sitting there but I'll have to ride it to know if I'm going to like them or not.

Rear now has 15" lift shocks combined with lift blocks. I wasn't positive if these two would work together, but I'm determined to make it happen. As I assumed, the shock and caliper are now too close. I spaced the shock outward and that made me able to at least mount the wheel, albeit all the way forward in the adjustment with next to no travel to tighten the chain before the caliper and shock make contact. I'm debating on moving the upper shock mounts rearward, or I'd like to see a smaller rear caliper on there somehow. That would be easier than moving the shock mounts. This caliper is yuuuge, and it seems unnecessary. There must be a way to get a smaller caliper on there.

XL600R front end went on tonight. It was a complete success, until I tried to turn full lock right and something hit. My front fender mount contacts the little padlock steering lock dealy. I'll have to massage that. I have about another 1.5 inches of fork leg I can slide out of the triples and bring the front up a bit more, and I think I'm going to do that. Seems the front could stand to go up a bit. The Honda front end went on like it was made for this bike. It actually took more work to adapt an 18" rear wheel from another Harley to this bike than it did to get this front end on.

So far so good. It's still fun.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200404/0e733ac99b3f7678504a2a8254f69a2d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200404/0a1898fac4fd781eabae31a4743aa333.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200404/5648022632aa3b923a605ff47afd18f2.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200404/ddf41ac5646ac58b8074d53f2bbf207b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200404/a59c5b013ba20abc1aacf9f9ea7643ac.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200404/8c417a9c63aa252bb3c7037e5ba527a5.jpg

[ATC King]

Fast From The Past sells a Tarozzi fork brace for the XL600R forks. I have one, and it helps the forks track better. The boots still fit good and don't look goofy. I'm guessing it'll still fit, if the Sportster trees haven't thrown the spacing off much. It's a five piece design, so there's some wiggle room before everything's tightened.

http://www.fastfromthepast.com/22-0034
262148


I don't know what you intend to do for front brake line, but I like the original one on the XL600R because it's not like the new dirt bikes that have the brake line hooped over the bars, it's a cleaner setup. The problem is it's a hard line and rubber hose hybrid design and they aren't available new, that I know of. You'd be stuck using a 30+ year old brake line and it may not be the size needed if you intended to attach it to the HD master cylinder.

I'm guessing you may want to keep the HD brake lever so you can use matching mirrors, if the master cylinder assembly and clutch lever both have the mirror mounts built in. You'd have to use some type of metric/SAE adapter if using the Honda master cylinder. Probably would look off and put the mirrors in different positions.


The original peg location may work, but a lot is going to depend on the seat. Keep in mind,the original Sportsters were meant to be competitive with the British bikes of the time and those bikes were THE desert racers of the day. They had thicker, and longer seats, that sat higher and farther forward than the new bikes. The Sportster was HDs performance bike, getting overhead valves before any of the bigger bikes and a unitized transmission. Harley continued that into the late 1990's by introducing new technology on the Sportster first.
http://www.classic-motorcycle-build.com/sportster-history.html
http://www.classic-motorcycle-build.com/image-files/xearly-sportster-xlch.jpg.pagespeed.ic.jf7FqJXkvK.jpg
http://www.classic-motorcycle-build.com/image-files/xharley-davidson-sportster.jpg.pagespeed.ic.oGZJX6Rut8.jpg


Here are some other internet images that have seats more accustomed to your application. Two of these are the later rubber mounted engine Sportsters, which also have larger fuel tanks. I got a chuckle when HD promoted the new rubber mount engine frame as stronger. Well, duh, it had to be because the engine was no longer a stressed member. It also added a good (bad) amount of weight. Engines bouncing around inside the frame, at idle, don't look quite right.

https://thekneeslider.com/gb1200r-british-style-custom-sportster/
http://thekneeslider.com/images/gb1200r2.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YoAlp2Y-vc0/TNgBMXQa77I/AAAAAAAAAMw/lvtflrVW8-s/s1600/HD_883_Scrambler_Country_Orange.JPG
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nB6j89rIE08/U4NkdLTDNlI/AAAAAAAAEdI/lV9SzGOloD4/s1600/CIMG2141.jpg



The braking balance is looking kind of comical though. A stereotype of Harley riders is they are terrified to use the front brake, hence the enormous rear rotor, which is even more accentuated now. I done a quick search and didn't find a XL600R oversized brake rotor kit, which are typically available from supermotard parts companies. The kits are a larger brake rotor and new caliper bracket. I think a XR650L brake caliper fits the XL600R forks, and if that's the case, you can use a caliper bracket for the XR650L. You'll just have to source or have a custom rotor made.

[fabiodriven]

Fast From The Past sells a Tarozzi fork brace for the XL600R forks. I have one, and it helps the forks track better. The boots still fit good and don't look goofy. I'm guessing it'll still fit, if the Sportster trees haven't thrown the spacing off much. It's a five piece design, so there's some wiggle room before everything's tightened.

http://www.fastfromthepast.com/22-0034
262148


I don't know what you intend to do for front brake line, but I like the original one on the XL600R because it's not like the new dirt bikes that have the brake line hooped over the bars, it's a cleaner setup. The problem is it's a hard line and rubber hose hybrid design and they aren't available new, that I know of. You'd be stuck using a 30+ year old brake line and it may not be the size needed if you intended to attach it to the HD master cylinder.

I'm guessing you may want to keep the HD brake lever so you can use matching mirrors, if the master cylinder assembly and clutch lever both have the mirror mounts built in. You'd have to use some type of metric/SAE adapter if using the Honda master cylinder. Probably would look off and put the mirrors in different positions.


The original peg location may work, but a lot is going to depend on the seat. Keep in mind,the original Sportsters were meant to be competitive with the British bikes of the time and those bikes were THE desert racers of the day. They had thicker, and longer seats, that sat higher and farther forward than the new bikes. The Sportster was HDs performance bike, getting overhead valves before any of the bigger bikes and a unitized transmission. Harley continued that into the late 1990's by introducing new technology on the Sportster first.
http://www.classic-motorcycle-build.com/sportster-history.html
http://www.classic-motorcycle-build.com/image-files/xearly-sportster-xlch.jpg.pagespeed.ic.jf7FqJXkvK.jpg
http://www.classic-motorcycle-build.com/image-files/xharley-davidson-sportster.jpg.pagespeed.ic.oGZJX6Rut8.jpg


Here are some other internet images that have seats more accustomed to your application. Two of these are the later rubber mounted engine Sportsters, which also have larger fuel tanks. I got a chuckle when HD promoted the new rubber mount engine frame as stronger. Well, duh, it had to be because the engine was no longer a stressed member. It also added a good (bad) amount of weight. Engines bouncing around inside the frame, at idle, don't look quite right.

https://thekneeslider.com/gb1200r-british-style-custom-sportster/
http://thekneeslider.com/images/gb1200r2.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YoAlp2Y-vc0/TNgBMXQa77I/AAAAAAAAAMw/lvtflrVW8-s/s1600/HD_883_Scrambler_Country_Orange.JPG
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nB6j89rIE08/U4NkdLTDNlI/AAAAAAAAEdI/lV9SzGOloD4/s1600/CIMG2141.jpg



The braking balance is looking kind of comical though. A stereotype of Harley riders is they are terrified to use the front brake, hence the enormous rear rotor, which is even more accentuated now. I done a quick search and didn't find a XL600R oversized brake rotor kit, which are typically available from supermotard parts companies. The kits are a larger brake rotor and new caliper bracket. I think a XR650L brake caliper fits the XL600R forks, and if that's the case, you can use a caliper bracket for the XR650L. You'll just have to source or have a custom rotor made.

Man you are on point.

So I have the XL600R front OEM brake line and it's in very nice shape. I haven't even tried to fit it up yet. Now I'm excited to see it, lol. And yes, I do want to keep the HD master and lever and I do like the mirror setup as well. I'm wondering about fitting that line to the HD master already.

I love the commentary about the Harley riders being heavy on the rear brake, lol. Yes it looks a bit absurd right now, mostly because it is! That mag wheel is super heavy as well.

I'm fitting the seat right now. I've yet to come up with an idea how to fasten it unfortunately.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200405/c13eb0da0f5fdcb96a8819b494295717.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200405/23f1f3b5764a9523967ef590eb904cce.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200405/5ee3d3927e689649d88a0e222299508c.jpg

[schlepp29]

It looks high enough for clearance but low enough to be comfortable. When do you get to test ride it.?

[fabiodriven]

It looks high enough for clearance but low enough to be comfortable. When do you get to test ride it.?

Well the exhaust system has yet to cross the border from Mexico. That's my limiting factor right there.

[schlepp29]

Well that sucks. Hopefully it won't take too long to come in

[fabiodriven]

Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you.

Today was a lot of hours spent with very little production. It's less than convenient when I have to stop what I'm doing to go to the hardware store, but it is what it is. Most of my time today was spent on the chain idler that I'm thinking I'm going to use for my chain tension.

The idler and bracket were not going to work because it contacted the tire, so I dicked around with it and tried a couple different ideas. Simply bolting the idler wheel itself straight to the frame bracket works, but doesn't offer any adjustment. I could consider making it eccentric maybe if I had to.

Then I put the wheel back on the arm and went back to a spring loaded configuration. I removed the plastic bushing and hogged out the hole at the base of the arm a bit, then slid in a bronze bushing with a steel collar around it so I could snug it down tight yet still have the arm free to pivot up and down. The problem was, as I tightened it all down the bushing and collar compressed and expanded, making the arm unable to pivot up and down.

After frigging with that for far too long, I thought maybe I should eliminate the spring and use this mechanical situation to my advantage. So assuming this stays put when I'm riding it, this may be my chain tensioner. We'll see how it goes.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200406/661d5116de45516ed4504665b2bb6499.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200406/fbbd2a9d4f7b7290a77683d0b0970e9b.jpg

[ATC King]

Coming along pretty good.

[fabiodriven]

ATC King had asked before about the front brake line and that was a concern of mine also. I am keeping the HD master cylinder and it's going to the Honda caliper, so standard to metric.

I had both the HD line as well as the Honda line, both in very good usable condition. I mounted everything today and then assessed what I had. My initial thought was to use a compression fitting on the hard lines to mate the two lines, and that would have worked, but then I saw an even more betterer and cleaner solution.

I ended up cutting the Honda hard line and from it I removed the metric Honda line fitting. Then I simply cut the HD line, removed the standard (American) thread HD fitting, slid the metric Honda fitting on, and then flared the line. It looks phuckin factory, wicked pissa. I couldn't be happier with the results.

I also got the seat mounted today.

I have to mail my rear sprocket and spacer back to Sprocket Specialists so they can make me a wider spacer. Initially I thought the spacer they had sent with the sprocket was going to work, but after working with it more it was clear the sprockets were still not aligned. Sprocket Specialists are going to machine the correct width spacer, but at that width the sprocket will be completely off the shoulder of the wheel hub. Because of this, we need to either enlarge the center hole of the sprocket and make a spacer with a centered shoulder on it (hub pilot in tractor trailer terms) or chamfer the mounting holes and use countersunk hardware. Either way will work, and they can do it either way. I'm not certain which I prefer yet.

Either way, I'm waiting on the exhaust system, some exhaust cones, and now the sprocket ordeal. Other than that it's mostly wiring left, which there is a lot of, and not much else. She's going to be offending people under her own power pretty soon. Everyone that's seen this bell of the ball so far has shown a lack of words lol. It's shocking to most people.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/5e51912c303772f68f4add9263554b14.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/73883b8529e778cfd705cb3a54efd634.jpg

[fabiodriven]

Oh also! I found out last night that this bike is a XRH883H, which makes it a Sportster Hugger. That explains the ride height, solo seat, goofball handlebars, and all that stuff.

[fabiodriven]

Here's a question. I have these screw on covers on my primary cover. With all of my searching, I have been unable to find another example of this on any other HD. What's the story with these? Everyone else's seem to bolt on.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200408/ddbc2d4946118c6d91db12c132528034.jpg

[ATC King]

Plugs for accessing primary chain and clutch adjustment.

Yours is a four speed, right? Just the older design.


Super job on that brake line! Clean and simple modification, like your Sportster was saying, 'Thanks for getting me off that boring pavement.'


Did you know you can get dished rear sprockets? If you didn't here's one, and there are others. I don't know if you have a reason for trying to use a spacer.
https://www.dragspecialties.com/products/?productId=575440

https://asset.lemansnet.com/media/edge/C/3/7/C373DEC9-231B-49FD-8AD6-9F659D108D31.png?x=381&y=381&b=FFFFFF&t=image/jpeg

[fabiodriven]

Did you know you can get dished rear sprockets? If you didn't here's one, and there are others. I don't know if you have a reason for trying to use a spacer.
https://www.dragspecialties.com/products/?productId=575440

https://asset.lemansnet.com/media/edge/C/3/7/C373DEC9-231B-49FD-8AD6-9F659D108D31.png?x=381&y=381&b=FFFFFF&t=image/jpeg

To answer this question, no, I did not know they made dished sprockets. I had talked on the phone with Sprocket Specialists earlier that day, and he'd suggested that a dished sprocket would probably work for me in combination with the spacer I was already using, but he wasn't aware of anyone who sold dished sprockets for that.

I read your reply here before you edited it and added the part about the dished sprocket, or else I would have looked into that a lot closer just to see if it could be another option. By the time I saw the information about the dished sprocket I had already talked to Sprocket Specialists again and decided to send my sprocket and spacer back so they could build a different spacer.

My exhaust arrived in Florida but I'm not in Florida right now.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200415/f416a98bdfe2a65db01cd71541434692.jpg

[ATC King]

The box they shipped that in is even nice. I'd definitely be keeping that for a footlocker.

I'm guessing you got the Flying Comet exhaust?
https://gallopmotorcycles.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_62&product_id=52
https://gallopmotorcycles.com/image/cache/catalog/Flying%20Comet/1%20-%20Flying%20Comet-1000x650.jpg

That's a sweet looking exhaust and none of that chrome business to constantly keep clean.



The dished sprockets are often used on the belt to chain conversions, although I think they've been around for a long time. I like to check Drag Specialties because they carry a lot of Harley parts, but there was some other seller/manufacturer that sells dished sprockets that I don't remember the name of. I looked online but didn't find anything the rung a bell.

I'd like to help on fitment, but I'm not that up to speed on all the rear wheel bolt patterns and sprocket sizes the Harley used over the years. Kind of like keeping up with their alphabet soup model nomenclature, which is more like their Latin species name, instead of the common name.

I mean, call it a FLSTF, and you'll get some blank stares. Say Fat Boy, and yep, they understand engrish.

[ironchop]

I ran HD dished sprockets on my hardtail ironhead build and also on my Bonneville chopper build when I was running 16" HD wheels. I recall that the hub built pattern was the same, but the inside ID of the dished sprocket was cut for a bigger hub, so I don't think they were made for HD big twins with the 16" spoke wheels. I got them at HD swap meets but they weren't marked

What model did they come on originally? I always thought it was a ironhead sportster model that used them but do you guys know which one for sure?

That bike would make a wicked hillclimber John

Also the exhaust in the picture Clint put up looks badass. I'd run that for sure. I'm guessing it ain't cheap

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[fabiodriven]

Yup the dished sprocket would have worked I'm guessing, but Sprocket Specialists is handling the sprocket and spacing. The 1979 18" AMF mag takes the same sprocket as the 89 Sportster 16" wheel, but it just doesn't line up on this bike. I'll post the pictures of the solution once I get back to Florida.

Honestly Doug I don't what came on what as far as Harleys go, haha. I don't much at all about them yet!

Yes the exhaust system posted is indeed the one I ordered. It was the first thing I ordered when I started this build and one of the last parts to arrive. Assuming everything looks good in person when I get there, these guys have done an excellent job. No it was not cheap, but it's exactly what I wanted and these guys seem to have an excellent reputation. Not very well heard of in the states which I think is cool, because there are only a handful of people in this country who will have a Gallup exhaust system. I'm really excited to get back to work and get this bike done. I'm going to start the registration process tomorrow.

[ATC King]

Dying here. Waiting for MOAR!

[fabiodriven]

Dying here. Waiting for MOAR!

Ask and yee shall receive.

I have learned to accept things happening this way, so it no longer surprises me, yet it never ceaces to amaze me. I haven't posted in a long time in this thread, but before you posted I almost did. I ended up deciding not to. I was going to address you specifically ATC King.

Tonight was actually my first night in probably almost a month working on the bike. I had to take an unexpected trip to Massachusetts (bike is being built in Florida) and I was thinking about the bike the entire time I was gone. So fitting you'd post on the same night.

ATC King I wanted to tell you that you have been an exceptional source of valuable information on this build and your insight is extremely impressive. You even guessed the exact exhaust I bought, and even with the correct finish lol! It's impressive and greatly appreciated. You get to ride this bike for sure if we ever meet.

As I said, this was my first night wrenching again. I drilled a couple holes in the kickstand and mounted a lift block to the foot of it. That was some tough metal to drill, but it worked out.

Tonight I began wrastlin' the wiring. It didn't go well. I didn't have enough wire to get the rear lights hooked up and I removed the pins from harness because you have to in order to remove the blinkers and taillight without cutting the wires. Well in retrospect I wish I'd have cut the wires, because now I'm having trouble figuring out which pins go where in the harness. Sounds simple I know, but I can't test for the brake wire until I reinstall and bleed the rear brake. I have reason to believe that's the red wire though, I'm almost positive. I'd love to confirm though.

As for the turn signal and running light wires, I have no idea which is which. Those should be easy to probe out with the meter though. I had other things going on when I was working in that area and got flustered unfortunately, and threw in the towel on the rears for the night and moved to the front. It's tough for me to keep a level head sometimes.

The fronts didn't go any better. What I'd love to find out is if the front turn signals on a 1989 Sportster XLH883H light up with the headlight when you turn the key on. Both front turn signal hot wires have constant 12v with the key on. I need to find out if that's normal or not. The front turn signals I bought have two circuits. They have a halo running light and an amber turn signal. With the signals off, only the halos illuminate, but when you switch the turn signals on it shuts off the halo for just the light signaling and the turn signal flashes. Modern cars do the same thing. They kill the running light on the side of the car that's signaling. If this bike sends power to the front turn signals and uses them as running lights, that's going to mess up how my new lights work. Unfortunately for me, I don't currently know if the front turn signals are supposed to come on as running lights.

And as I type this the solution comes to me. Hook up the factory turn signals and then work from there. It all seems so simple when I'm not there, but my brain scrambles when I have the bike in front of me. That's part of why I had to stop working. I need to learn to have clearer thoughts when I'm physically working on the bike. The devil is in the details, and that's where I am now. I'm into the tedious time consuming stuff.

Thanks for posting again because I'm not positive I would have thought to simply hook up the factory signals and work from there if I hadn't posted tonight.

[fabiodriven]

Lol you're a riot Glam.... Err, Mr Bunghole!

Today I mounted my most current sprocket and spacer from Sprocket Specialists. I grabbed my chain to install, but I completely spaced and never ordered a 520 front sprocket to replace the 530. I totally dropped the ball on that. I'll be calling Sprocket Specialists tomorrow to get that sorted.

I was planning on checking my chain alignment once I got the chain on, but even though I wasn't able to mount the chain I could still tell my sprockets are not aligned. Rather than ship it all back to Utah again, I'd really like to find someone local with a lathe that can help me out. There's a chopper place not far away and I've been in there before to buy a used axle spacer. I'm going to visit him and see if he has a lathe. If he doesn't, I'm sure he'll know who does.

I messed around with some miscellaneous hardware and mounted the right foot peg. This particular bike has female foot pegs, and that's the actual term. Basically Hardly Ableson made the footpeg mounts backwards for whatever reason, and it's stupid. Because they're so uncommon, there are about two styles of footpeg to choose from in female mounting configuration. I figured I'd use the pegs the bike came with even though they're ghastly, but I was just figuring maybe I could get away without that added expense for now. Then I stripped it out by accident. Oopsie. It's a really strange footpeg, way over engineered. The Japanese save their over engineering for where it matters and don't sweat the small stuff. A footpeg is a pretty simple piece of engineering, or should be at least.

Anyhow I ended up ordering a set of peg adapters and some pegs, so the wait is on for those lol. I got held up tonight by a single 1/4" bolt. Working at night I can't go to the store. I have to go to the store during the day and get what I think I need for that night. It ends up costing me huge amounts of time building in a situation where I'm not at my own place. Any parts or hardware I need I have to source. As I said, it's getting tedious. It's so close but it's getting so frustrating now. I question my motives when I get to this point, so it's not like I want to do this. I have to. This is what it takes to get something very special and something done right, because "done right" doesn't exist if I don't do it. Paying someone else to do this sounds pretty good right now, but it's just wrong. It's against my principles. Built not bought.

Thanks for reading guys.

[86T3]

:shiftyeyes::shiftyeyes:
X owner

[fabiodriven]

Hahaha I'll take some pictures of what all is going on tomorrow.

[fabiodriven]

No pictures yet. It's been slow going. My entire rear sprocket and spacer are scrap. Back and forth it went and I still needed to get it machined again locally. I went to put the chain on to look at the alignment when it dawned on me that I'd completely forgotten to get a 520 front sprocket (bike comes with 530) to go along with the 520 I made fit the rear. Well after all that time, money, and effort on the rear sprocket, I found out there is no 520 front sprocket for this bike. What I'm stuck with is the factory 21 tooth 530 and that's it.

I got frustrated and needed guidance so I went down to the local chopper shop, which I did go in once before and he had helped me tremendously with an axle spacer. Well he ordered me a 520 front sprocket, but that turned out to be wrong once it arrived. The catalog was wrong so it wasn't our faults. That's when we realized it has to be 530. So the guy dug out a few rear sprockets and they were all dished! Perfect! They were all 51 tooth which is better than my 48, but I bet the gearing is still going to be too tall. I increased the size of the rear wheel too so...

So with the dished sprocket I'm closer than I've been yet. I'm about 1/16th or 1/8th off. It would technically work as it is, but it wouldn't be good for the chain. I'm going back to the chopper place tomorrow to see what all he's got for spacers.

Wiring is not going well. My buddy was able to help me at the car shop where I'm building it today, which was great because before he came over I was ready to wire the spark plugs in the gas tank. I get angry working on stuff sometimes, it just happens. On the plus side the wiring really started to improve once my buddy came over with the power probe but it's still doing weird stuff. The handlebars need to be grounded we're pretty sure, but they're rubber insulated. There is a ground wire going to the bar mounts but I think my new black handlebars are not allowing for a clean ground. Hopefully we'll mess with it again tomorrow. A lot of people are getting antsy in the pantsy to see this bike go and it is close, and that's a big part of my drive to finish. My buddy is more anxious than me, hahaha. I'm certainly looking forward to riding it but the speedbumps are getting to me. Very few things easy are worth doing though.

[fabiodriven]

Should just be a matter of a couple days now until the bike is done. The three remaining things were wiring, waiting on a 530 half link for the chain, and foot peg adapters.

This will be the fourth bike in my stable which requires a half link, so I wasn't at all surprised. Because of the combination of longer shocks and lift blocks I am no longer able to use the rear axle chain adjustment. The axle has to be slid as far as it can go forward in the swing arm and it has to stay there. Someday I'll lengthen the swing arm and fix this issue, but I don't have access to a welding machine right now. Instead I built a chain tensioner myself. I used the chain slide from a junk CRF250 that's laying around the shop.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/de25b5cd720d83fbc6f9aa0d006ffd0a.jpg

The wiring has been a bit tricky but we're getting there with it, slowly. I wasn't making any headway by myself and it started going really well with my buddy helping, I may have already said that. I thought I was pretty good with wiring but again, it's tricky for me to keep a cool head anymore when I'm working on stuff and it's not going well. There's really nothing much that translates over from working on Japanese motorcycles.

At this moment it seems like it should be riding in the next few days. There have been many surprises leading to many delays however, and we're not out of the woods yet. The way this bike has been fighting lately I considered naming it "Tooth and Nail". I had two other ideas for names though and already have decals for both of them. Tooth and Nail sounds kind of cool though I guess.

Thanks for reading.

[schlepp29]

It would be cool if you're able to bring it to kisers and we can do some riding. I'm pretty anxious to see it! I think it's a cool build. ��

[fabiodriven]

It would be cool if you're able to bring it to kisers and we can do some riding. I'm pretty anxious to see it! I think it's a cool build. ��

That's what I'm aiming for Brent. I'm really hoping to have this in Ohio next month with me.

[kiser]

I hope you can bring it also! I'm very excited to see it in gravel!

[fabiodriven]

Welp remember when I said we weren't out of the woods yet? Phuckin POS continues to fight and yes, it has gotten to me. I'm angry when working on stuff like this which is part of the reason I work on it when nobody is around. Honestly I'd like to smash this thing with my maul and put it out by the curb at this point.

So the good- Today we learned that the turn signal system on this bike is designed from the factory with momentary switches for each signal after it baffled us for the last few days. I guess I should expect Harley to build something so asenine at this point. There is a button on the left bar and a button on the right. Each respective side activates the corresponding turn signals, but because the switches are momentary, you must hold the button for the turn signals to work. That's how they came from the factory, and that's how they're supposed to work. Strange but whatever the phuck I guess.

Once we figured that out, we moved on to the problem of all four turn signals blinking when you depress either turn signal switch. The following article will explain this phenomenon, because God knows that a phuckin Hardly Ableson has to be built completely different than any other motorcycle on the planet, and not in a good way. Just about any other motorcycle would respond to a load equalizer, but no, not this bike.

https://www.customled.com/blogs/custom-led-product-information/4-way-hazard-blink-problem-on-motorcycles-with-led-turn-signals

I tried adding load equalizers into the equation and that did absolutely nothing, so I ordered those stupid diodes mentioned in that article. Time to wait again...

Aside from that everything else went pretty crappy tonight. I cobbled together the wiring and was able to mount the oil tank finally, which is a lot of progress at this point. I was super excited to mount my exhaust, so I broke out my little doohickies that ATC King suggested I buy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200519/960fee5e92578a73c4cad7ad79600e4a.jpg

Well they looked great in my hand. Too bad the phucking goddam gaskets are too phucking large in diameter to fit the exhaust port.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200519/a9411224e11113405b917484f23592e5.jpg

At this point I'm fuming, and I said you know what? Seriously, phuck it. Just phuck it all. Phuck this bike, phuck these gaskets, phuck the exhaust, and phuck you too. Not caring anymore, I figured I'd do the best I could to straighten the donut and just cram the cacksucker together. I figured I'd at least get the exhaust system on the bike for the first time ever, and at least I'd have something to hang my hat on today. Just one small victory.

NOPE! No wins for me today! I went to mount the exhaust and there are no goddam mother phuckin flanges on it. How in the actual phuck am I supposed to mount the exhaust with no goddam mother phuckin flanges? Were they supposed to be put on before they completed the exhaust and they forgot to do it? Am I supposed to use two piece flanges? Was this exhaust supposed to come with two piece flanges? I have no phucking idea. A search of eBay and Google netted me exactly zero results for two piece flanges for a Hardly Ableson. So that tells me what's next; They're either going to be something that doesn't exist, or they're going to come in multiple sizes and the size I need won't exist or will take forever to get. I don't know. I just do not phucking get it. Note in the following picture there are exactly zero flanges on these pipes. It took everything I had to not stomp these pipes into oblivion while they were laying on the floor like that.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200519/546c0d43a3725eba708939cba9139e8e.jpg

So here's your update and there's your pictures. Phucking choke on em.

Edit- don't really choke on em. I'm capturing the emotion. Thank you.

[fabiodriven]

I have to say, the exhaust by Gallup Cycles looks awesome. I still can't mount it unfortunately.

Anyhow Gallup just responded to me (which they always do in a timely fashion) and informed me that I need their flange kit. Honestly their customer support has been better than any other place I've dealt with for anything, great communication, but I feel like they could have mentioned this to me seeing where I was purchasing their exhaust but not a flange kit. He said it's in the listing too so I'm the one to blame actually. I have been making more than my fair share of mistakes lately but I'm working on that.

Now yet again we find ourselves at the mercy of the mailbox, which is par for the course here. It wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't the last time this happens either. I am grateful to be able to do this all in all, but it is tough. I guess the feelings are a quintessential part of a person building their own motorcycle. This bike might be a bit angry.

[fabiodriven]

Donut gasket solution- put the cack sucker in the freezer. Wish I'd have thought of that before I left the shop.

[tripledog]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Sportster-1200-Exhaust-Flange-Install-Kit-For-1984-2018-Header/121735980687?hash=item1c5807a68f:g:bWcAAOSw42dZCNA 8

[fabiodriven]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Sportster-1200-Exhaust-Flange-Install-Kit-For-1984-2018-Header/121735980687?hash=item1c5807a68f:g:bWcAAOSw42dZCNA 8

I appreciate that TripD but the only way you can use those is if you put them on before you weld the pipe together. I need two piece flanges like you'd find on a properly engineered Japanese motorcycle.

[tripledog]

The key is the retaining rings that are better illustrated in this link. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHROME-EXHAUST-FLANGE-KIT-FOR-HARLEY-86-16-BIG-TWIN-SPORTSTER-W-RETAINING-RINGS/263452440219?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D39ba8 b158b054f6db48126471399acde%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D 2%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D121735980687%26itm %3D263452440219%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507 Put the flange on the pipe, and then spread (twist) the snap ring to get it on the pipe. Slide the flange against the snap ring and onto the studs and install the nuts. Being that your exhaust is custom made, the flanges to mount it may in fact be proprietary, facilitating the need to buy the flanges from Gallup.

[fabiodriven]

I see how those could work, but I'm thinking the same thing as you are about waiting for the correct set from the manufacturer. I'm willing to bet they're proprietary as you're guessing. I appreciate you sharing the knowledge either way so I can learn about these two wheeled tractors, ha! That certainly seems like an odd way to make a flange to me, but if it works it works!

[ATC King]

Here's a couple Harley exhaust gasket installation videos. Looks like you're using the different style, but maybe they'll still be helpful. Kind of makes sense needing to use a homemade, hardware store tool to work on 20th century farm equipmen...um...Harleys. :naughty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Btu_o3FE_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEPWP6oK7H4

[fabiodriven]

Here's a couple Harley exhaust gasket installation videos. Looks like you're using the different style, but maybe they'll still be helpful. Kind of makes sense needing to use a homemade, hardware store tool to work on 20th century farm equipmen...um...Harleys. :naughty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Btu_o3FE_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEPWP6oK7H4

I actually have both styles. I was planning on running two gaskets on each head pipe because of the little exhaust cones I'm adding. Flat gaskets first, then cone, cone gaskets, then head pipes in that order. I have not yet tried to install the OEM cone gaskets to see how they fit, but the aftermarket flat gaskets absolutely wouldn't have gone in the way this guy in the video shows. They're just too large in diameter.

[fabiodriven]

The key is the retaining rings that are better illustrated in this link. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHROME-EXHAUST-FLANGE-KIT-FOR-HARLEY-86-16-BIG-TWIN-SPORTSTER-W-RETAINING-RINGS/263452440219?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D39ba8 b158b054f6db48126471399acde%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D 2%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D121735980687%26itm %3D263452440219%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507 Put the flange on the pipe, and then spread (twist) the snap ring to get it on the pipe. Slide the flange against the snap ring and onto the studs and install the nuts. Being that your exhaust is custom made, the flanges to mount it may in fact be proprietary, facilitating the need to buy the flanges from Gallup.

The flanges are on their way and it looks like they are the exact flanges you shared in this post.

[Scootertrash]

The key is the retaining rings that are better illustrated in this link. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHROME-EXHAUST-FLANGE-KIT-FOR-HARLEY-86-16-BIG-TWIN-SPORTSTER-W-RETAINING-RINGS/263452440219?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D39ba8 b158b054f6db48126471399acde%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D 2%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D121735980687%26itm %3D263452440219%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507 Put the flange on the pipe, and then spread (twist) the snap ring to get it on the pipe. Slide the flange against the snap ring and onto the studs and install the nuts. Being that your exhaust is custom made, the flanges to mount it may in fact be proprietary, facilitating the need to buy the flanges from Gallup.

Was going to post this as well. Does the manufacturer have pics on their website of the flanges? That may answer your question. I believe all of the evo era exhaust flanges are the same size whether Big Twin or Sporty, hold on, BRB........

Yes, after perusing the Harley microfiches the evo BT and Sporty exhaust flanges and clips/snap rings are the same, so factory components should work. You'll have to make the judgement when you get the "custom" ones.

IMHO there isn't much they could alter as far as mounting where you would need "proprietary" flanges and clips/snap rings, unless their custom flanges eliminate the need for the clip/snap ring.

ETA:Do you still have the clips and flanges from the original exhaust?

[Scootertrash]

Here's a little inspiration from down under :naughty:

262850

https://www.hdforums.com/how-tos/slideshows/practical-diy-sportster-dual-sport-from-australia-611047#

[fabiodriven]

Was going to post this as well. Does the manufacturer have pics on their website of the flanges? That may answer your question. I believe all of the evo era exhaust flanges are the same size whether Big Twin or Sporty, hold on, BRB........

Yes, after perusing the Harley microfiches the evo BT and Sporty exhaust flanges and clips/snap rings are the same, so factory components should work. You'll have to make the judgement when you get the "custom" ones.

IMHO there isn't much they could alter as far as mounting where you would need "proprietary" flanges and clips/snap rings, unless their custom flanges eliminate the need for the clip/snap ring.

ETA:Do you still have the clips and flanges from the original exhaust?

That's good to know about flange sizes Scooter. This is all so new to me and it's not been as easy for me to find information on the Harley as it is to get info on the stuff I'm used to working on.

The flanges on the OEM exhaust are just traditional one piece flanges that do not come off the pipes to the best of my knowledge. I don't recall any sort of clips or anything with those, but I'll double check next time I'm at the shop. I might go in tonight to work on it, it's so close to completion.

There are fluids in the bike now and almost everything is done. My diodes for the turn signals have arrived and the flanges are scheduled for a Tuesday arrival. The biggest obstacle left is wrapping up the wiring. Other than that there are just a few small details to button up. The exhaust *should* bolt right up in a matter of minutes once I have the flanges in hand.

[fabiodriven]

I got almost all of my wiring done today and the bike is completely assembled aside from the exhaust. The exhaust flanges are projected to arrive tomorrow. The weather seems fitting for the bike possibly reaching completion tomorrow.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/0657b8f9c29212d1cb954dfed643fb15.jpg

[Scootertrash]

That's good to know about flange sizes Scooter. This is all so new to me and it's not been as easy for me to find information on the Harley as it is to get info on the stuff I'm used to working on.

The flanges on the OEM exhaust are just traditional one piece flanges that do not come off the pipes to the best of my knowledge. I don't recall any sort of clips or anything with those, but I'll double check next time I'm at the shop.

I'm 99% certain that the OEM flanges will come off. There may be corrosion wedged in between the retaining ring and the flange. Try semi gently tapping the flange towards the muffler and that should knock the flange loose from the retaining ring which is I guess moreof a snap ring of sorts.

If you look on the engine side of the flange you will probably be able to see the snap ring inside of the flange. The snap ring is hidden once you slide the flange up to bolt the pipe to the Head. It will not look like your conventional snap ring. It will be about 9 tenths of a complete circle with tapered edges at the opening.

I'm on my phone or I would try posting a pic of what it looks like, I'll take a peek when I get home I've got my bike torn apart and I may have the flanges still on the pipes

[fabiodriven]

I'm 99% certain that the OEM flanges will come off. There may be corrosion wedged in between the retaining ring and the flange. Try semi gently tapping the flange towards the muffler and that should knock the flange loose from the retaining ring which is I guess moreof a snap ring of sorts.

If you look on the engine side of the flange you will probably be able to see the snap ring inside of the flange. The snap ring is hidden once you slide the flange up to bolt the pipe to the Head. It will not look like your conventional snap ring. It will be about 9 tenths of a complete circle with tapered edges at the opening.

I'm on my phone or I would try posting a pic of what it looks like, I'll take a peek when I get home I've got my bike torn apart and I may have the flanges still on the pipes

You are correct Scooter! I was able to use my old flanges. The news flanges arrive today too lol. I could have had the pipes on days ago if I'd have figured this out but whatever!

The bike is assembled and running. I just rode it! It's breaking up on the high end so I'm going to clean the carburetor first and then if it's still got issues then I'll have to do some jetting. I'll share some pictures later.

[schlepp29]

How did it feel riding it?! Bet it was fun

[fabiodriven]

I'm going to copy and paste my bookface post to here because it was a lot to write, haha.

The bike is "complete". As anyone who builds machines knows, they're never truly done. This is done enough to be considered complete for the time being. Everything thus far has been done in shorts and mandals. I never got super dirty.

The paint on the tanks is by me with help from Krylon and Rustoleum. I'm happy with how they look.

I still have to clean the carburetor but we were able to ride it today. Only a couple things vibrated off and I only burned my leg four times, which is good because it will not take long for me to figure out where my leg cannot be. The footpeg location is not where I wanted it, but my options for peg mounts where I need them are not many and not up to par in my opinion. I wanted to fabricate my own footpeg mounts but we didn't have a welding machine in the shop until last week, and I'm looking to leave Florida soon so the pegs can wait.

I wanted the suspension a little higher than it is for the sake of overall scale. For the length and size of this bike the suspension should be higher to be proportionate, however it's plenty tall as it sits now. If I got the ride height to make the bike proportional I would no longer be able to touch the ground. The Sportster is a tiny motorcycle, but it makes a yuuuge dirt bike. It already feels really big.

In the end my initial prediction of "$5k and a week" to build this bike was grossly underestimated. It took a lot, a lot of work and thinking. This bike fought me to the very end, nothing was easy. It was a lot of effort for me to keep my head on straight enough to push this to completion, as I was getting very frustrated and tired of this bike over the last couple months.

The front wheel, brake, and forks are Honda XL600R, with the front brake master cylinder being the Harley unit. The triple clamps are the Sportster triples that came on this bike and they are 39mm, same as a Honda XL600R (and also the 350). Front wheel is now 21" instead of the smaller Sportster wheel.

The rear wheel is a 18" 79 AMF 9 spoke, up 2" from the 16" wheel, and it was literally the only wheel I could find for sale in the entire country in the size I needed, new or used. I paid a lot of money for that wheel, and I had to cut my own spacers to center it.

Rear shocks are 15" from Burly Brand used in conjunction with lift blocks from Hugh's Hand Built. I'm probably the only person around combining lift blocks and lift shocks, so this was an experiment. Turns out they can be used together, however the rear brake caliper ends up interfering with the left shock. Because of this, the rear axle must be slid all the way forward in it's adjustment in order to provide clearance between the caliper and the shock. I had to space the left shock out just to be able to get everything to jive.

Because I no longer had any chain adjustment at the rear axle, I built a chain tensioner instead. I might have liked to start cutting up the swing arm in order to achieve the ride height I wanted by moving the shock mounts, as well as doing something to cure my chain adjustment issue, but we didn't have the welding machine at that time and who knows how much longer that would have taken. It's good enough for now.

I mounted a GPS speedometer because I wasn't able to adapt the Honda speedometer drive to the Harley speedometer. I have to fine tune the new speedometer yet. Wiring the bike was a real whore. My buddy Jon Quinlan was a lifesaver with the wiring. I was pretty revved up and lacking severely in clarity at that point, so he stepped in and we got it all sorted. It was a fuckshow for a while there, and yet still needs some buttoning up. The front turn signals are Kuryakyn halos and the rear are eBay stuff.

Another tidbit- this bike is actually an 883. The seller thought it was a 1200 and I wouldn't have bought it if I had known it was an 883. I got over that pretty quick though because the bike is super clean and *was* extremely unmolested. This bike is actually a 1989 Harley Davidson Sportster XLH883H Hugger. I had no idea what a Hugger Sportster was before I found out what this bike is. If you know what a hugger is, then you might see the irony in how this bike has turned out lol.

First and foremost I have to thank Jon Quinlan and Q Repairs. If it weren't for him this wouldn't have happened. After Ben Sherman suggested I build my own bike on the book here, I said something to Jon who was sitting right next to me at the moment. I mentioned how someone said to build it myself, but I wasn't considering it. Jon said "Why not?", and he offered me his shop and his help. I thought OK, I guess we can do this. Without Jon and his shop this wouldn't have happened, so I'm extremely grateful to him.

I'd like to thank Gibson Kustoms in Ocala Florida. I should have gone in and met this guy when I first started this build. I cannot say enough good about this dude.

Sprocket Specialists who worked very hard with me.

Tuffside Seats, who provided me with a beautiful seat in exactly the size I needed. I searched for a very long time trying to find a seat like this. It looks simple right? Try finding one! The whole bike looks super simple, but it surer 'n trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro ain't.

Burly Brand for the rear shocks.

War Horse Harley Davidson of Ocala Florida.

ATC King from the threewheelerworld.com forums was a huge help to me. He posted a lot in my build thread and had a lot of very pertinent information.

Hugh's Hand Built for the lift blocks. He was out of stock but I reached out and begged him and he scraped up another set for me. I truly appreciate that.

Last and far from least, Gallop Motorcycles out of Mexico. They made my exhaust to order and it is absolutely gorgeous. This was the very first thing I ordered during the height of the bullshit fake covid catastrophe, and they pushed it out the door on a wing and a prayer. Fantastic people there with excellent communication. First part ordered, and literally the last part installed. I just mounted it today. I was searching for an exhaust for a very long time, and I knew my search was over once I saw this. Sheee-it, they even shipped it in a snazzy crate.

I'm going by memory here and trying not to forget anyone or anything. This has been a massive amount of work for me. I only get so many hours of productivity per day and same with mental capacity. If I have to stop for mental or physical reasons for the the day it is what it is. In the end it seems so far so good. We'll see how it progresses! Thanks very much for your interest and support!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/67a09678f5f1fb91f670806df9442632.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/6a060d666f4079bcccc8c49ff1c33fbb.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/e16adbd2b5360d5c292b6275dd24bded.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/88493598ca5ed08d70101190ee15fe29.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/70aee50290a6771baf9ba434fb7e99d6.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/ef19a87ef435879fadc9fcd119f39c41.jpg

[schlepp29]

Haaaa!! Dude that's badass!!! I'm a little jealous lol.

[ATC King]

That turned out great!

[fabiodriven]

How did it feel riding it?! Bet it was fun

It feels slightly faster than a fair amount of John Deere's offerings, and it handles like a Buick station wagon with four flat tires.

Time for fine tuning. I have a lot to get after as far as getting everything squared away. It handles awful and I'll be addressing that, but first-

So when you start the bike from cold, it starts right up with the choke and runs OK, but it doesn't respond well to any throttle when you first start it. Once the choke can be shut off it starts running a little better while the bike warms, but when you ride it the bike starts breaking up and coughing. It sputters if you give it a good amount of throttle. After about 15 minutes it seems to clear up, but this is not a normal warm up cycle. 15 minutes may not sound like much but that is a long time for it to run like crap before it clears up. I took it to the gas station yesterday, it's hot as blazes here. After being shut off for only 4-5 minutes while pumping gas, it ran like crap again as if it needed to be run for another 15 minutes again. The bike was still hot, this is not right.

I cleaned the carburetor yesterday but it didn't need it, and I replaced the spark plugs today. Intake seals cannot be the issue because the engine runs at idle perfect, the issue is when you get on the throttle.

I'm leaning more towards something in the ignition.

[schlepp29]

Yeah ignition or jetting possibly? Hey atleast you got this far. I wonder if its running lean?

[tripledog]

To allow the freer flowing Gallop exhaust to function properly you will also need to have a less restrictive air intake and most likely need to rejet the carb. The stock airbox is very restrictive. In addition, check the condition of the vacuum lines from the intake manifold to the fuel valve and to the VOES (vacuum operated electrical switch).

[ATC King]

It still has the stock CV carb, right?

I ran across something very similar, where the guy was at our house, bike running like your description, and it turned out that he had messed with the carb just before the ride and didn't get the slide diaphragm or cap back on correctly. I don't remember if the slide wasn't in right or the cap was turned wrong, could've even been the diaphragm lip pooched out a little and not seating. Whichever it was, we were able to rectify it there, without any parts, just by getting everything in there right.

Sometimes those old rubber diaphragms can get tears too. Have to hold it up to a light, pull and look all around, especially where it joins the slide. Sometimes it seems like those diaphragms swell with age and it's like wrestling an jellyfish, trying to get it back in place.

[fabiodriven]

To allow the freer flowing Gallop exhaust to function properly you will also need to have a less restrictive air intake and most likely need to rejet the carb. The stock airbox is very restrictive. In addition, check the condition and of the vacuum lines from the intake manifold to the fuel valve and to the VOES (vacuum operated electrical switch).

I don't disagree about the change in exhaust having an affect, but there is one important detail that I forgot to add. The bike did this with the factory exhaust as well when I first got it before I touched anything.

I could definitely take a better look at the vacuum system and see if anything looks off there.

[fabiodriven]

It still has the stock CV carb, right?

I ran across something very similar, where the guy was at our house, bike running like your description, and it turned out that he had messed with the carb just before the ride and didn't get the slide diaphragm or cap back on correctly. I don't remember if the slide wasn't in right or the cap was turned wrong, could've even been the diaphragm lip pooched out a little and not seating. Whichever it was, we were able to rectify it there, without any parts, just by getting everything in there right.

Sometimes those old rubber diaphragms can get tears too. Have to hold it up to a light, pull and look all around, especially where it joins the slide. Sometimes it seems like those diaphragms swell with age and it's like wrestling an jellyfish, trying to get it back in place.

Stock carb, yes. I did have the cap off the carb and the diaphragm and slide out, and I did inspect it. It didn't look cracked or anything but it was a little swollen and tricky to get back under the cover. I don't think there are any issues there but I may double check.

[fabiodriven]

Currently I have the carburetor removed. The vacuum lines look fine and I don't think this system is the cause of my issues. If I suck on the vacuum line, the fuel immediately flows from the petcock. I began wondering what keeps this system open when there is no vacuum provided, IE wide open throttle (WOT) and I was wondering if that may be part of the problem. I highly doubt that is the case though because the hesitation is instantaneous. If the carburetor bowl were no being provided with enough fuel when the throttle is opened then there should be a delay. It should take at least a couple seconds for the bike to consume the fuel in the fuel bowl before the engine starts to show signs of fuel starvation.

[fabiodriven]

Someone suggested I check the points, and I was assuming it didn't have points. Turns out it doesn't. I wish it did because I was hoping that was going to be an easy fix.

It has some kind of electronic ignition. The timing plate was turned all the way to one side and there are a lot of marks from the mounting hardware on the plate which indicates someone was messing with this already. Someone was already trying to figure out what was wrong with this turd and gave up.

I tried moving the plate towards the middle of it's travel and that didn't seem to help. Then I went clear to the other side of the travel with it and the bike would hardly run. Not sure what is going on with this thing now.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200530/62d2ae8c6328659558d273ce56c8636f.jpg

[fabiodriven]

I'm not happy right now, been a bad day. This POS still doesn't want to run right. Not my first rodeo with a Harley product that doesn't want to run right and the last one still doesn't run right so I'm not looking to get into that BS again.

Bike is for sale, PM if you're interested.

[Scootertrash]

Not to crap on your for sale ad, but do you have a factory manual so you can reset the timing to factory?

First and foremost take a break for a day, have a beer, a cocktail, a oney, whatever and clear your head.

I would get rid of the vacuum petcock, same thing I have planned for the 98 Road King in our garage. Allegedly it's a fire prevention device so if you crash the fuel stops flowing when the engine shuts off. In my opinion it's not needed.

You should also check the operation of the VOES and make sure it's working properly. I do not have a Sportster manual here but I could check my manuals for the Low Rider or the Road King for the testing procedure, I'm willing to bet they're the same.

[coolpool]

Fabio that is a work of art, you should pat yourself, (and a few others you mentioned) on the back. You'll get the engine sorted out in no time; chances are it's some dumb little thing that'll make you go, duh!

[oldskool83]

I understand being upset and wanting to sell it off. We have all been there. Sometimes as much as I hate to say it or do it its best to just out scource it and let smone mess with it who has even more skills. Not saying its right, not saying its wrong but if letting say a valid harley shop mess with it for a bit would relaive you of your stress you might be able to focus your efforts on a different project or adventure. I know we as men and builders do nto like to admit defeet, hate dealers / service shops etc...but not everyone can figure everything out. Not everyone is the best at everything. We all can learn but somoneelse may know a tip or a trick that in the future saves us the time or money we spend up front.

If that was worth anything yay, if not I hope to see more future creation builds. I'd offer more help but i only ever had one sportster and it was a 2005. I never dug into the motor as it was too hard for a 29yo to enjoy a 700lb street toy.

[ATC King]

I had a dirt bike long ago, that gave me fits trying to find the problem. I sold it.

Turned out to be shorted wire in the harness. Wish I kept it long enough to figure that out.

[Scootertrash]

If it were me, I'd get rid of the stock ignition and put in a Dynatek single fire ignition in it.

[fabiodriven]

Yeah it will get figured out I'm sure. I ran out of time here in Florida so it's getting pushed into the trailer and figured out at the next place. I removed the right side cover because it looks like there's some part of the electrical system under the cover where they fish the wire through, but all that was under there was gears. I ruined the gasket getting it apart. We had a theory the cam could be a tooth off but I didn't get the chance to check. I went to the Harley dealer and it was going to take them 10 days just to get a gasket, and the chopper shop was closed three days in a row. That was my only hope because I'm not going to be here long enough to order parts through the mail, so I had to give up on the bike last week. The universe made it quite clear my long upstream struggle has brought me to the base of a waterfall. I had no choice but to walk away from it. It makes me sick to look at it. I tried to pop the cover back on and it doesn't want to go. I was expecting that. These things are built pretty stupid in my opinion. It also rattled off a special shock bolt and spacer of which I'm positive I double checked for tightness, and also I've been unable to locate a replacement for. I think the thing has done a total of three miles and it's falling apart already.

[oldskool83]

Typical old sportster. Good luck ordering parts too. Everything I order now days seems to take 3 weeks to get. I wrote this year off for really riding much of anything.

[ATC King]

We had a theory the cam could be a tooth off but I didn't get the chance to check.

Are you sitting down?

If you didn't already find out...camshafts. Four of them. Each valve has it's own and they're all gear driven.

[fabiodriven]

I had some time to look at the gears under the timing cover today and it seems very obvious to me which gear is off. The question is whether or not I'll be able to remove that gear and move it over one tooth over without disturbing the rest of the timing.

On a positive note, there are marks from a paint marker on the gears, but there are also stamped marks from the factory. This tells me this bike was apart, which tells me that there is a chance that this bike was indeed turned into a 1200. The more I look at the color of the cylinders, the more I think they were changed. Someone took the time to paint the heads of the cylinder head bolts too so...

I'll be settled in Ohio next week sometime and I'll get a look at these gears and see if I can square them away. If it's not something I'm going to be comfortable doing, I'll have someone else do it. This gear has to be off though. It makes sense.