What's In Those Old Tires?

[ATC King]

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That's what's in the majority of them and it's a crapshoot if the wheel is usable without needing to run tire sealant or apply a liquid bead sealer.

It's just about always going to be more than just replacing the tire, and there's no way a tire shop will do much more than scrape off the chunks and put another tire on, if they don't refuse to mount a tire on it to start with, because they don't want the hassle of chasing leaks.

This is what you get with those old, dry rotted tires, where someone put who knows what type of sealer in it, and they still won't hold air now. An FYI when paying top dollar for some crusty trike. It's going to cost you more; possibly new wheels.


I was able to use these another round after some washing, wire brushing, and rust converting paint. I used to put wheels like this in the blasting cabinet, prime, then paint, but that's realistically too much work and money on a rust pitted wheel that may still require a sealer for the tire bead. Now I just go this route.

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This Rustoleum doesn't list it in the directions, but other spray rust converters I've use say it works best with a light amount of surface rust, after all the major stuff is gone. That's the reason for not wire brushing it down to shinny metal, or at least spray it with some water afterwards to get a thin coat of flash rusting.

[psujeepguy]

Dang! What a mess! I've run into this on rims of older garden tractors as well. I sandblast in cabinet when I can.

[ATC King]

I'll still blast good steel wheels. Anything with minimal pitting and next to no pitting in the bead area, but anything with a good amount of pitting in the bead area is almost guaranteed to leak without a sealer.

I have used bead sealer before, but I've been to seven or more automotive stores around here, including on big truck store, and none of them have it on the shelf. I'll have to order some. That's a Plan-B though; I don't like to use it.

Nobody has anything but Slime brand tire sealant either, which is junk. It eats up rims after a while and plugs up valve cores before that. I've got to hand it to their marketing department though, because they've displaced everything else on the shelves.

[kb0nly]

If it needs sealant to seal i just toss a tube in it, cheap and easy, just make sure to get the more expensive tube with a valve stem that has a threaded body with nut to bolt it into the stem hole so it won't spin around at low pressure.

Can't say i have ever had them that bad, some rust yes, but thats pretty bad! Seems like usually i get the ones with bad beads because bubba beat on it with a hammer trying to remove the tire and gave up, and i end up bending it back and cleaning it up and putting a tube in it for some extra safety on it not going flat.

[350for350]

That first picture is why I started going with aluminum rims on my 250SX and 250ES.

[ATC King]

If it needs sealant to seal i just toss a tube in it, cheap and easy

Thanks for your reply, but I don't agree.

Tubes aren't cheap or easy. They're about 1/3 the price of a new tire and if they get a puncture, the tire has to be broken down and the tube removed to repair it.

They also destroy wheels, just as bad as crap sealant. They form a moisture barrier against the wheel, which holds water and rusts the wheels to the point they're not even safe to use. Tubes are best used in spoke wheels, where moisture doesn't have a problem getting out through all the spoke holes.

[ps2fixer]

What color was the inside of the tire in the first pic, or was the sealer not there and probably in a past tire before that one? I've only seen one rim rusted badly, and the guy welded 4 bolts on each side of the rim for tire chains. The chains were long gone and the rim was broken open in a few spots at the welds. Guy claimed to be the orig owner, had a 250es front fender, rear diff bearings shot, was covered in pine needles under a pine tree. He claimed it was only there a year, looked more like 15 years to me. I'll see if I can find the pic of it.

Found the pics, gah the memories of that machine. I couldn't even get the lug nuts off the rear hubs. I think I have the rear end laying around somewhere yet with one tire on it lol. Ironically, I do remember getting it fired up and it ran great, no smoke, spark advancement worked right, etc. The only thing I had to do was change the plug and throw some gas in it. I'm thinking the tank was ironically fairly clean inside too. Have to love the lawnmower starter relay in the first pic =).



Anyway, for the OP pics, I'd assume it's from the green slime or some other tire sealant stuff. I've pulled tube installed tires apart and not have nearly as much rust, I don't think the tire required a tube, they just put one in just because. I think it had no moisture and the rim paint was rubbed off from the rube and that's where the rust was. Split rim and I think the O-ring was trashed. I ended up sanding and painting the insides of the rim and either sold them or still have them laying around, was from a 1976 ATC90.

[El Camexican]

I’ll never put another tube in a non-dirt bike tire and even then I prefer tubliss.

My Tri-Moto rims were badly pitted when I removed the 1984ish rubber. Sand blasted them and had them powder coated, no leaks even though the pits are still very obvious.

In a worst case scenario I’d consider something like sandblasting and then filling the pits with something like JB Weld before painting.

[ironchop]

Sis-in-law's 84 200BR. She got new tires and asked me to install last month

Tried to break these beads for almost two hours. Ended up cutting old tire off to get at the problem. Both rear wheels had tubes in them. I threw away the second wheel/tire along with this one without attempting to dismount that one after I saw this one. Buying new wheels and moving on. Pics make them look better than they really are

I'll never use tubes



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[MrConcdid]

I think its a combination problem.
I have seen a lot of yellow and green slime in my Honda rims, I figure its from all the Yamaha's and Kawasaki's it ran over back in the day. j/k

Condensation, rust, fix a flat, dirt, water, none of it good.
I did see a trick to getting off old tires, let the air out, and use a torch, heat the rubber bead right next to the rim up for a minute or two, really 2 minutes. get the thick rubber pliable again, then try the break the bead with a bead breaker. A tire machine is best but this does work in a pinch, there a youtube video of it also if you want proof.

MrC.

[ATCKevin]

When I worked at the John Deere dealership, we would charge extra to repair tires filled with slime or fix a flat. Such a mess. I found fix a flat to be far more corrosive over slime. I’ll never use either. We beat our heads against the wall for over a week trying to figure out why a brand new gator had a wicked vibration at high speed. Turns out the guy bought it, brought it home, and pumped the tires full of slime to “prevent a flat on the trail” [emoji849]


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[ATC King]

...Turns out the guy bought it, brought it home, and pumped the tires full of slime to “prevent a flat on the trail” [emoji849]


Slime even states on the container that it's maximum useable lifespan is two years. I doubt anyone is breaking down good tires and changing the 'Slime' biannually.

It's also noted in the first sentence on their website.
https://shop.slime.com/collections/prevent-and-repair-tire-sealant

[ATCKevin]

[QUOTE=ATC King;1515094]Slime even states on the container that it's maximum useable lifespan is two years. I doubt anyone is breaking down good tires and changing the 'Slime' biannually



[emoji23] no doubt! It turns into a nasty brown goop


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[ps2fixer]

Another tip for really bad tires that don't want to come off the bead, cut the side wall out and use a sawzall or dremel or whatever you have to cut metal and cut the beat down to the rim, just careful not to damage the rim. I have had a couple tires I had to do that to in the past, but they were semi tires and breaking them down with the old school tools... a tire maul and a couple tire spoons. Filled a 14ft trailer twice with them, 8 foot wide and about 7-8ft tall. These were tires that sat a good 30-40 years in the weather. Most were car/truck tires, but there was a lot of farm/semi tires too. Lots of split rims (the kind with a metal ring and the tire slides off that side of the rim).

Here's a video of some guys working on the type of rim I saw a lot of. Some were full of water, dirt etc. Oh the memories lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wa7779tykc

[ATC King]

Even if someone manages to break a crusty tire down, if the rim is trashed, it doesn't matter.

That's the deal with all these used and abused trikes out there. There's a very good chance it'll cost the new owner new tires and, new wheels. Many of the aftermarket ATC wheels have an offset. On trikes that use the same size wheel for all three, it's finding a good OEM one for the front that can be a hunt.

When looking to buy a trike, if it's got old, dry rotted, worn out, and flat tires, it's a very good idea to factor in the cost of new wheels while trying to negotiate a price. Not everyone has a stack of good used wheels to pick through like the people who've been doing this for a while.

Anyone who's changed enough of these over the years, has had their fair share of cutting them off. At some point, you ask yourself if it's really worth all the effort, busted knuckles, and sore knees. A tire shop certainly won't bother with them, and they'll still probably charge you for breaking them down.

[MrConcdid]

I have started buying new rims for the rear because of the offset ( I gain 3 inches width which is a plus). And any of the original 3 rims that are salvageable become front rims only.
I have seen spacers on the front to correct wrong offsets with modern rims, I have yet to try that but it can work.

MrC.

[ps2fixer]

I'm the odd ball vs the public, I don't like a wider stance on the 3 wheelers, I ride hard and being wider makes it harder to ride fast in wooded trails for me. I put 1.5in wheel spacers on my 250sx and I hated the terrible handling, I couldn't just whip the machine around like normal. I suspect the average rider doesn't push the limits quite as much as I do though. Racing I can get the wider setup logic since they train on the same types of turns etc. Maybe I just didn't put enough effort into learning how to ride with the wider wear axle, but I'll stick with stock width for myself.

Maybe I'm lucky up here, I don't really get that many machines with bad rims, only that atc200es I bought had bad rims, everything else has been completely usable including tires with tubes in them and I've hit a few of the tire slime tires. Plenty had surface rust, or light pitting, but nothing major. We have a lot of car nuts up here, like a pretty large % of people up here knows how to work on their own stuff, maybe things don't get so bad because of that. I guess I should do some digging and sell some rims =).

[kb0nly]

Can't say that i have ever had trouble with tubes, so i guess you guys got some extreme situations going on??

I also definitely can't agree on tubes costing 1/3 of the cost of a new tire. Where in the da world are you buying tubes??? LOL... Last tubes i bought cost around $18 each for good quality ones. As for the moisture problem, i just popped off a tire to get a nail out of it, went through the tire and the tube, patched the tube and tire and put it back together. The beads are shot on the wheel but with a tube its been fine for something like 15 years now, there is still no rust inside, looks the same as it did when i put the tube in there for the guy 15 years ago, the talcum powder i sprinkle in to allow the tube to expand without sticking somewhere was still in there as well, dust came falling out!

Now if you ride through mud and water a lot, then yeah a tube could be an issue if your bead isn't sealed and water gets in, but i haven't had that issue myself. I detest tire slime or any other crap like that, usually when i get one with that stuff in it i have to toss it and find a new one because its shot. That stuff should be put in for one reason, in an emergency to get home or to a tire shop, but not left in there. Tire slime, fix a flat, all that stuff is last ditch effort get home crap and its not worth the money it costs.

Each to his own, but i have some tires with tubes in them, and i have never had a single issue with them. I helped take off some tractor tires that had tubes in them, they were on for 40+ years... Guess what, no rust issues... So i guess its dependent on the use of the machine.

[ps2fixer]

I guess it really depends on what tires you run. Low cost tires are like $50-60, using your number $18 is 32.7% the cost of a $55 tire or 1/3 the cost. Now if you run $100 tires, it's 18% the cost or about 1/5.

Personally I never use tubes, if the tire is so bad it needs a tube, it's time for a new tire. Proper patches on the inside of the tire works quite well too. I suspect the cases that tubes are used are both mild such as "preventative" to extreme where there's nothing left to the tire. Wish I had photos, the 84 ATC200ES I bought came with trashed original tires with tubes in them. The front tire was so bad there was 3-4in wide rips quite often in the tire and the tube was exposed. I rode it like that for a good month before the tube popped and I bought new tires which were $100 for a set of 3 locally at TSC. One knobby for the front, and "W" tread style like the old winter tires used to be for cars/trucks for the rear. Tires are still on the machine to this day and it's been 10+ years (probably closer to 15). Gah I'm getting old lol.

Looked at my oldest pics on 3ww and here's the machine. It's been through hell and back and doesn't show much signs of all the abuse it's been through.

[ATC King]

Some more of those hidden gems.

I found this one yesterday, and believe it or not, the tire was holding air.

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Shining a light on the situation.

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Will it pass the cable test?

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YES! The cable passed right through it.


This is why I have more pairs of those reinforcing rings than wheels. Though I think the trouble of getting them out is starting to be more time than they're worth. I need to consult Ebay...

[MrConcdid]

Hey ATCKing, that cable test is like a magic trick, where they sick the large needle throw the balloon and it doesn't pop.

I broke down a set of 3 last night, one was roached like yours the other was newer had a nice sticker, clearly not an OE wheel, but good information.
I guess the original wheel gave up and this was the replacement. "Marshall" wheel Company.

Seems IPT uses that same part number 8MR413
MrC.

[ATC King]

Yep, and it's offset like most of them. Thanks for the pic.

So it had one stock and one offset wheel on the rear? Circle track trike? :)

I hauled some tires to the landfill the other day. They don't go into the landfill though, so these 'good tread' TrailPros won't be buried and dug up in a 1,000 years to put back onto another trike. Tires go into a semi trailer and out from there to various places. Some get ground up for different uses, while others go to a power plant. I'd like to think these TrailPros will go to the power plant, where they'll provide power, instead of taking it away like they do on trikes.
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There's a good chance someone will climb into the trailer and take them home instead.trailpro

[MrConcdid]

Yes, that wheel was on the back, on the right ride, an OE wheel was on the left, caused it to track or pull a little to the right, Now it could have been low on air or flat ( I may have been imagining it), I was changing tires anyway so it didn't matter much, that is how I bought it. I bought another IPT wheel with the same dual bolt pattern and offset, sand blasted both, painted to match and put them on the rear of the trike, with a OE wheel up front, this nets me a factory wheel to use somewhere else as a front if need be. I have found wheels from $39 to $65 on ebay like this one. Not perfect but keeps us rolling.

MrC.

[ps2fixer]

Heck, I'd use the trail pros, resell on a trike or whatever, they wear like iron and get good grip. They just aren't ideal for a sport machine, put it on a utility machine and they are fine. My uncle had a pair on a TRX125, he abused the snot out of that thing for like 20 years and he sold it with the tires still looking like new lol.

[ATC King]

My uncle had a pair on a TRX125, he abused the snot out of that thing for like 20 years and he sold it with the tires still looking like new lol.

Right there; that's the problem. I'm not dealing with them for that long.

They do have good traction in the dry, but in mud they just slick over and on wet rocks they don't grip (too hard and no flex).

I wouldn't even like to sell a hardtail trike to a noob if it had TrailPros on it. They totally destroy the ride quality and make it a miserable experience, especially if it was something with a rigid fork. About the only way to make them have give would be to use bead lock wheels and run them with no air, but then they're still heavy and dead feeling.

Gawd, I very, very much dislike trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro, TrailPros. May as well use one of those agricultural chevron tread tires. At least they do good in mud.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lagAAOSwGotWslxW/s-l1600.jpg

In a pinch, they can be swapped to the opposite sides to run them backwards, for sand and snow. Can't run a TrailPro backwards, they're non-directional.

[ps2fixer]

Odd, they work great in the mud up here, we don't have rock though, just sand, mud, dirt, and here and there we have gray clay but not everywhere like the red clay down south (Indiana/Kentucky). Knobby tires do slightly worse up here for mud vs trail pros. Guess it all comes down to environment. For the tires I got for my 200es, I would have gladly taken trail pros, but they were more expensive and I was a teen with no money. I got a set of 3 tires for $100, the rear two the store manager said they sold to me below cost ($30 each) and the knobby front was $35 if I remember right, tax and such and $100.

I've messed around a little with tractor style tires, the only ones I'd even think about running would be the highlifter outlaws (the originals, 2 play side wall). I think I have a pic of them on here, 25in was too small for a 250es though, the tread made the tires act like around 23in in mud and snow so it bottomed out too easily. Had a guy that couldn't believe I could go through more than his 4x4 quad (with effectively stock tires), so I followed him everywhere he went and he got stuck. Then he took me to his buddies place and tried to get me stuck in a deep water hole (over the seat deep). I got hung up on a stump but was able to back up and go around it lol. He wouldn't stop bugging me about the tires after that and ended up selling them to him for $200, I think I paid $50 for them. Really didn't want to get rid of them till I had something else to replace them with, but at that price I couldn't turn it down.

I found the pics, also added the tires I hate xD, they get alright traction, but if you get the machine leaning at all or on uneven ground the machine becomes unpredictable since the edge of the tire spins really easily, and the center will suddenly get traction when it goes down. My 350x bucked me off the first day I had it doing donuts in sand. Seems like every machine I get comes with them too, I have atleast 5 sets, even my 250sx has them. Btw pics are from TF 2015 except the first one.

I never had tailpros in clay so no clue how they'd do in that kind of situation, I suspect they'd clog up pretty easy on an under powered machine, just like the tires that were on my 350 warrior, had to be in 2nd gear floored to get them to clean out and I'm not normally the kind of person that just floors a machine in mud, it was just how those crappy tires worked.

Here's the same tires I don't like in the mud on my property.

https://i.gyazo.com/9e3931b70823c77b57886804e02532b0.jpg


Here's a 250sx with worn out tires trying to go through the stuff lol.

https://i.gyazo.com/ad36fe7cdbfb20e959a8cc61ceac2f0e.jpg

Anyway, if you was local, I'd trade you the tires I don't like for the tires you don't like xD.

[ATC King]

Anyway, if you was local, I'd trade you the tires I don't like for the tires you don't like xD.

For sure.

There's no local trike riders here anymore. It's 99 percent SxSs now.

The way it works at our dump and transfer stations, if someone see's something they want, they can usually take it. If it's anything with possible value other than scrap, many people will set it next to the dumpster instead of in it.

I've quit even trying to give stuff away. It takes time (my time) to post FREE stuff, and there's always some boneheads trying to make a simple thing, complicated. I take stuff to the dump, done, without me trying to communicate with someone who can barely spell well enough for me to understand it.

[350for350]

ATC King I had the same experience as you did in the mud with Trail Pros. They were just horrible. They also wouldn't hold air for more than about 2 1/2 days. I even tried tire sealer in them with no improvements. After all that, I can't stand them either. I know a guy who only rides his KLF185 around town on the pavement so even the Trail Pros wear down pretty fast. If i ever get a trike with them on it, he's always ready to buy them from me. I'll usually sell them to him at $20 for all three.

[ps2fixer]

For usable tires, I could throw them at the end of my drive way and within a day or two I'm sure they'd be gone. No dump trips needed for me, but I live way out in the country and there's a lot of people that scavenge (scrappers and such).


For the tires that won't hold air, get some soapy water and spray it on the bead and valve stem and find the leak, it's generally a pretty simple process. Valve stems go bad pretty often. If it was a thin walled tire the side wall could be possible, or if it's ran over a nail the main tread could have a hole in it. Mechanics (atleast in my area) have a metal tub they fill with water to find the leak (look for bubbles). Here's the modern plastic version

https://www.focusst.org/threads/right-rear-tire-leaking-air.34655/#post-770324

And a pic of the metal one.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-galvanized-steel-tire-leak-1996440860

Don't forget to check the valve core too, the stem could be fine but the core leaks. I suspect the problem was pitted rims and the harder rubber compound unless it had a nail hole in it. I've ran into some trailer and car tires that were horrible for sealing up, but they were manufactured with the bead size slightly too big. Could tell that because you could de-bead them basically by standing on the side wall. The trailer I have in mind might have just been ran with low tires for a long time and wore out that section of the tire since the side walls were really thick and the tire would hold it's shape even flat.

Anyway, not going to twist anyone's arm to use trail pros, just wish they were more local so I could get a bit more hands on experience at little to no cost lol. $20 for a set of 3 would be nice, could have an on hand spare encase there's ever trouble on a trip.