1983 ATC185S fixer upper

[Footy]

I have been wanting a 200X for a long time but the right one has not come along so I picked up a 185 yesterday. It runs and rides but not well enough that I would ever leave my yard on it. All of the big money items seem good on it but I have noticed lots of smaller issues.
1. This engine seems to have the same type of decompression release set up as the XR200 dirt bike and 200X. The cable is missing. I was wondering if it would be possible to use the decompression lever from a atc200E that you manually move to provide easier starting?
2. The pull rope is not retracting into the recoil. I see rebuild kits on ebay for repairing this. Are the ebay kits good or do I need to do something else?
3. I need to buy an air filter. Is honda or uni preferred?
4. I need to change the oil. I do not have a manual. I assume about 1.5 quarts is the engine oil capacity?
5. I need to buy some random parts and hardware, ( shift lever, engine mounting bolts, front brake lever, etc). Are these parts from the 200S interchangable ?
6. The engine runs good, revs out well and does not smoke but for some reason does not want to idle. I adjusted the idle screw but with little effect. Any thoughts on what would cause this condition? I have not dumped the fuel tank yet and I am sure that would help some.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Photos and more to come.

[Footy]

269611

I will get better photos later.

[shortline10]

Probably best to scrap the idea of fixing the decompression system , their are a lot of parts in the recoil that are obsolete besides just that cable .
The idle issue is mostly likely the small jet is probably clogged so I would recommend a rebuild kit made by shindy and a new petcock with filter or at least run an inline filter to keep trash out of the carburetor .

[Jim mac]

it's amazing how quick the pilot jet can get clogged. I'm trying to sell a 200s right now, I put a new carb on it a few months ago and the darn thing didn't want to idle. pulled the carb yesterday and found the pilot jet clogged. cleaned it and it runs great again. jim

[Footy]

Thanks for your thoughts. I will rebuild the carb as soon as I get time and the shindy kit.
For first question about the decompression lever, I do not want to use the cable operated automatic decompression setup the was originally on the 185. Nothing is on my 185 now except for the short lever on the valve cover. What I would like to try is to get a used manual lever from a 1981 185S or from a 200 big red. I am just not sure what is involved with changing to the manual lever setup.
For question #2 about the pull rope, it is not functional at all right now. I have to repair or replace it but I do not know what is the best process for this? Should I look for a complete functioning recoil for sale on ebay? Or get the cheap rebuild kit for recoils also sold on ebay? I assume honda does not sell these parts any longer.
Right now the only way to start my 185S is the pull it with another ATV.

[Jim mac]

sounds like the recoil is just gummed up. since it's not retracting anyway, you could just pull it off and spray wd40 into the center spindle and work it back and forth. that is if the thing still has the spring tension on it. sometimes it's just dirty. jim

[Jim mac]

on your carb, just pull it apart, clean the jets, and the needle and seat and put it back together. it might run fine. jim

[83Atc110]

For the recoil, just buy a new spring for it, and for the carb, get a rebuild kit. They're not expensive, either.

[83Atc110]

For the recoil, just buy a new spring for it, and for the carb, get a rebuild kit. They're not expensive, either.

[robgdds]

I just got done rebuilding a trashed out 83 185s so I just went thru all of this. Take the recoil apart and degrease the whole thing. Go on ebay and get and new rope handle and spring. The spring is tricky to get in, there was a good video on youtube on how to do it. As for the carb the rebuild kit didn't work because the float seal was bad so I purchased a new one (zoom Chinese pz26 copy)for like $35. It took a while but I got it jetted perfect. Now it starts with one pull and runs like a top (after I fixed the electrical problems).

[Footy]

This is all good advice. Thanks so much. For the recoil I do not plan to use the cable actuate decompression release. Should I leave those parts out of the recoil when I repair it or are they necessary as spacer inside of the recoil housing?

[MrConcdid]

I use the recoil rebuild kits on ebay, there's a company based in Tennessee that make a good quality kit, search for them.
I not worry about the dscomp system, but do plug the whole in the recoil to keep water out, a rear brake inspection plug from any pickup truck found in the help section at any parts store is a good fit.
MrC.

[Footy]

I use the recoil rebuild kits on ebay, there's a company based in Tennessee that make a good quality kit, search for them.
I not worry about the dscomp system, but do plug the whole in the recoil to keep water out, a rear brake inspection plug from any pickup truck found in the help section at any parts store is a good fit.
MrC.

Hey thanks. Also my son and I enjoy watching your channel. So do you leave the extra decomp parts in there without the cable or do you remove them?

[Jim mac]

if your not going to use the decompression stuff you could always sell them and recoup some of your money back. from what I understand some of those parts are a bit pricy. jim

[Footy]

This project got side lined for nearly 2 years.
Home remodel, a death in the family, a 350X to redo, etc...
I will update with photos soon.

[Footy]

So far I have: repaired the recoil, installed a new front tire, acquired a set of Ohtsu XO rear tires, installed new rear axle bearings, and ordered lots of parts.
If I do not have any major interruption's I should have it running in a few weeks.

[ATC King]

Are those NOS Ohtsu or new ones?

I looked online for the brand and didn't see any new ones labeled XO. I know some of the OEM tire patterns are being reproduced, but haven't seen any 22x11x8 or 25x12x9 versions.

[Footy]

Are those NOS Ohtsu or new ones?

I looked online for the brand and didn't see any new ones labeled XO. I know some of the OEM tire patterns are being reproduced, but haven't seen any 22x11x8 or 25x12x9 versions.

The tires I have are old and already on wheels. Ohtsu XA-801. They are at about 1/2 tread and amazingly do not have dry rot cracks. 22x11x8.

The 25inch was called Ohtsu XA-601 25x12x9. These tires are very hard to find.

[Footy]

I have run into an issue with the decompression lever.
I have been using this lever manually since the decomp cable is missing from this machine.
It has worked fine untill I adjusted the valves the weekend.
Now the lever moves but does not stay in the up position.
It seems like the "detent" that it normally functions with is no longer in place.
I do not know how a valve adjustment could cause this but it is connected in some way.

[ATC King]

The decompression mechanism doesn't have a detent, it's just an eccentric that pushes on the exhaust rocker tab to hold the valve open a little.

I suppose they can get a wear spot over time, a little bit of a flat area they may rest on. Maybe there's enough friction to normally hold them in place when engaged, that an if it's over-center. If the engine isn't at TDC, and is on the exhaust stroke, the decomp mech will not touch the rocker arm because the valve is depressed and it'll just spring back.

On the off chance the little pin area at the end of the mech broke off, you can remove the inspection cap and look inside to check that. If that dude broke off, it's floating around in the engine now, hopefully still up top somewhere.

Have you ever engaged it with the engine running?


Here's a picture of it, although some have a different lever, for a cable or by hand. The pin on the end is what I'm talking about.

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/products/lifter-valve_medium12320958680-01_f331.jpg

[Footy]

I pulled the mechanism out. It looks like it should.
I hope that I got the valve adjustment wrong and that is why the decomp is not working.
My plan is to go back through the adjustment process and recheck everything.
Sometimes the "T" mark seems to lie a little on these flywheels.
I might pull the valve cover off so I can see the lobes and then do the valve adjustment.

[ATC King]

You can't adjust the valves with the cover off, the rockers are in the cover.

To make it easier to keep the crank where you want it, remove the spark plug. When you're fighting compression the piston doesn't want to stop or stay at TDC.

These are not high performance engines, there's a lot of wiggle room. As long as everything is close enough, you can adjust the valves.

That 'T' mark will line up on the exhaust stroke TDC too. Are you certain you adjusted the valves at TDC on compression? The crankshaft on a four stroke engine has to spin twice to complete the process, two strokes for each revolution.

[Footy]

You can't adjust the valves with the cover off, the rockers are in the cover.

To make it easier to keep the crank where you want it, remove the spark plug. When you're fighting compression the piston doesn't want to stop or stay at TDC.

These are not high performance engines, there's a lot of wiggle room. As long as everything is close enough, you can adjust the valves.

That 'T' mark will line up on the exhaust stroke TDC too. Are you certain you adjusted the valves at TDC on compression? The crankshaft on a four stroke engine has to spin twice to complete the process, two strokes for each revolution.

That is exactly why I plan to recheck. Typically I can feel a little bit of "play" in the rockers and know that I am on the compression stroke. These valves did not have play regardless of which stroke so I took a guess. I hope I guessed wrong.

[ATC King]

All you have to do to see it coming up on compression TDC is watch the intake valve open and close. Once it starts closing, look for the 'T' to come into view.

There's no need to stick anything in the spark plug hole, use a finger, or any of that.

[bigred22]

I own a '83 185s as well. Slowly I keep adding upgrades on better looking/working parts for it. I had it stored at a buddy's place for a few years. When I picked it up the front fender had a nice big crack in it that wasn't there before. I didn't get upset because he didn't charge me to store it at his place. I used a soldering gun to weld the crack until I came across a good fender. Today was that day, the seller had a few other nice parts and I grabbed those as well. So after the upcoming deep freeze we have coming, I'll get the parts swapped out. It isn't all that bad as it is now, but I still plan to keep adding nicer parts when found and the extra funds are there.....271651

[Footy]

That one looks nice.

I adjusted the valves again at proper TDC and all is well and the decomp lever is working again.
I was sick last week and must have had some brain fog along with it which led to the improper adjustment.
Also I basically have the rear end finished up: new rear brake shoes, replaced the chain and sprockets, etc.
Cleaning and rebuilding the carb is next.

[ATC King]

You figured out and nothing was borken. That's a success.


I can't say for certain, but I have a memory that someone had posted about a broken decomp, years ago. Maybe they were using it like a engine brake, although that's not exactly how valve actuated engine braking works. I've never seen one broken, but crazier things have happened.

[Footy]

I appreciate the input from the forum on my projects.
I should also update my 350X project thread.

[Footy]

Some progress has continued.
The sprocket cover and chain case are on as well as the shift lever.
The carb has been cleaned and rebuilt but not yet installed.
I am hoping to start it over the weekend to see if further tuning is required.
Will the 185 run good enough to tune without the air box?
I remember the ATC110 would not hardly run without the air box.

[Footy]

2 steps forward and 3 steps back.
I noticed when I would spin the rear axle some noise coming from inside of the chain case.
I rechecked the chain adjustment and it was good so I started looking closer at the chain case.
I found that the chain case was somewhat loose even with all of the bolts in place and tightened.
It turns out that the bolts that attach the chain case pass through rubber grommets on the inner half of the case and those grommets are rotten and destroyed which is why the case is not tight against the frame and rubbing on the chain and the small round plate near the rear sprocket and axle.
Surprisingly Honda still offers these grommets.
While installing a new front brake cable I also discovered that the steering stem bearings are shot.
More time and $$.

[ATC King]

In case you didn't already know, you can just buy loose balls bearings from a whole lot of places. I don't remember the size, but it's common. I keep a bag of grade 5 around for those. That may be a bit overkill, but grade 5 won't cost you much, if any more than the lower grades.

Grade 5 are very round, rounder than lower grades. It sounds weird spelling it out, saying it out loud.

As long as the races are good, not indentations or major wear, new bearing balls are all you need. There may be some seals, but lets be real, even when new they weren't doing much. Steering bearings are a regular maintenance item anyway.



Good on you for keeping the chaincase. I'd prefer to leave them on everything, but some of the places I ride will just damage them anyway. Most, if not all of the hartails had some type of cush drive on the rear sprocket, and keeping as much dirt out of that as possible helps them live longer. The chains stay cleaner, except if going through a lot of deeper water.

Chain tension has to be regularly checked. A loose, sagging chain will wreck the lower part of the guard in a hurry. So will worn axle bearings, but they'll wear the dust guard on the axle into the chaincase, usually cutting a crescent shape in it.

Then there's the rubber plugs. On the OEM ones, if still there, and not in the heat of summer, I'll warm them up with a heat gun before removing or replacing, to make it easier but to also avoid damaging them.

To make life easier, I use only the highest quality chain. The less it needs adjusted, the less the risk of damaging the chaincase. Since it can't be seen, and lubing and adjusting is more involved than a typical exposed chain, there's a better chance the service intervals are going past what they should.

I have a small stack of them. Some need repair, some just need refinished. I really like them, but they're just not practical for much beyond farm work and very easy riding.

On the horizontal engine trikes, like a 110, I'll absolutely do everything I can to keep one on. Because of the way those are built, with the stamped steel frames, the chain is completely exposed. They also have a tensioner for adjustment and it's quick to use. Running one of those through tall grass, like through a pasture, without the chain cover, can allow the tall grass to build up around the axle seal and compromise it, shortening the bearing lifespan.

I'll say it's like what I call hub hair on a bicycle. Most people would be surprised how much hair collects around bicycle hub seals. That's typically more of an issue on a women's bike.

[Footy]

I never thought about women's hair in the bike hub but it sure seems likely.
I have seen several vacuum cleaners that failed due to long hair wrapping around inside of them as well as shower drains clogging but thats for a different forum.

When I was riding 3 wheelers in the 1980's an early 1990's I replaced a few steering stem bearings with the ball bearings.
Not much fun using all that grease to keep the balls from falling out as you reassemble the triple clamps.
All balls and some others have tapered roller bearing kits for the vintage bikes and 3 wheelers that seems to work pretty good.
I completely agree with using a high quality chain to minimize adjustment intervals.
I have always felt like the hardtails do not stretch a chain as much as full suspension does.
The chain theoretically only moves around the sprockets but not up and down but I am sure there is some movement from all of the bouncing.

[ATC King]

The tapered roller kits are nice, but if trying to save some money, just replacing the balls is still a proper choice. The price tends to be much more reasonable if just buying them from a bearing source. The people selling them as specific ATC pieces are just taking advantage of the buyers who don't do, or don't care to do any research. I've had the same bag of bearings for years because I bought a large bag of them to get a better price.

What happens a lot of times is they are run loose and the stem and races become damaged. That's where the choice to use tapered may be better. I also don't trust cheap bearing races, like may come in some of the loose ball kits. They may not be hard enough or improperly machined, wrong radius and those types of issues.

It's also a very poor practice to mix and match used with new loose bearings, or even from different batches. I don't think I've ever pulled a fork that likely had original bearings that weren't worn or damaged and in need of replacement. The steering stem bearings are a very neglected maintenance item and that's across all the vehicles that have them.

It's not as noticeable on an ATC, but when motorcycle bearings have wear it really affects the steering and most people don't understand what's going on, just that something doesn't feel right. Typically, they get a type of detent (there's a name for it) where they want to settle in one spot and it causes a notchy feeling with any degree of rotation just off center. It's not so much dangerous as it is annoying, and throws the handling off. If bad enough or on a particular bike, it could lead to a dangerous situation, but that just means they should have been replaced a long time ago.

[Footy]

Progress has been slow while waiting on parts but the carb and airbox have been installed.
I also started the engine and it sounds decent.
The wiring coming out from the stator and up to the frame back bone is fairly messy.
What do you guys use to neaten the wiring up?

[ATC King]

You can use PVC sheathing, like what the harnesses came in from Honda, if you want it to be easier and look better.

Wrapping with electrical tape is alright and gets the job done but it's more difficult to make look good and if there's every a wiring issue, all the tape has to be unwrapped. With sheathing, the connectors can be removed and the wires pulled out, making repairs easier and cleaner.

The great availability and low cost of most wiring products for vintage Japanese motorcycles and ATVs makes it so that junking up a harness with blue splices and terribly wrapped wires with cheap tape is a giant step backwards in time, cost, dependability, and appearance. Now, it's easier and often cost less to just buy the proper products and do it right.

[Footy]

A little more progress this week.
The rear end is now complete and the airbox & filter are installed.
Steering stem bearings, flushing the tank and a new petcock should get it going.
There is rain forecasted for NC all weekend so I plan to finish wrap this up.

[Footy]

The 185s is now running and riding.
I still need to do a few small things but it goes and stops so at least it is useful.
As luck would have it just as I was finishing this up a 185s parts machine was for sale near me so I grabbed it.
It has 3 good tires, a rear rack and a funky headlight guard which I have never seen one like it before.
After doing some research I think it is actually meant to fit on a 1st gen ATC250R.
Between the 2 headlights I should be able to make one that works so this was a good score for the money.

[Footy]

I think this is as far as I am going with this one for now.
I may correct a few small items later on down the road.
I can't believe that these old Ohtsu XA-801 rear tires still hold air and have not been leaking down.