350x cdi? and other 350x questions.

[Jim mac]

I'm going to just post all my new 350x getting it running questions here.
This 85 350x lost spark according to the previous owner.
the stator reads 80ohm. depending on which stator it's either good or bad. let's go with good.
The CDI looks brand new but new from where?
I went to the manual, it says you need a special tester but went with the chart on checking pin to pin and where it's supposed to get resistance or a reading, there's nothing.
So the question is, has anyone tested a factory cdi to what's in the manual with a multi meter and come close to what's in the book?

pulse generator. I'm sure I'm setting the multimeter wrong, ive got 2 motors
on the 200ohm setting 1 reads 15.7
the other reads 1.2

Anyone try the ebay cdi for a 350x? or maybe tje coil, cdi and plug kit? I'm just wanting to get spark off tje machine.
I did check the wires from the motor to cdi to coil
I unhooked the switch, kept the ground on the harness

jim

[MrConcdid]

PS2fixer is the resident wiring guru, send him a message.

[Jim mac]

thanks, I'll message him if there's no spark after I get a new cdi installed. jim

[scuba]

Just remember that the 85X and 86X have different CDI boxes.

[Jim mac]

I bought the 6 pin 85 350x ebay cdi. hope it works. jim

[Jim mac]

I noticed that the 135 dollar Rick's cdi even states 85 and 86. are the new ones interchangeable?

[ps2fixer]

85 vs 86 350x uses the same connectors and pinouts, in fact it's the same CDI box. You can see both 85 and 86 are listed for the same part number here:

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/30410-HA5-008?ref=fc7fb30a7ba9cda2e8f2bf13277cbed5ce5b88a8

There are two different stators depending on who manufactured it, which also means the flywheel must match the stator as well as they are physically a slightly different size.

80 ohms is pretty typical reading for the 85 style (86 sometimes are in 85's though, it's just 85 had the lower ohm's version more commonly).

pulse generator reading 15 ohms seems about right, you always use the smallest setting possible on a multi meter, so if the expected reading is 20 ohms, you'd use the 200 ohm setting, if you expect to read 250 ohms, you'd use the 2000 ohm setting, the number is the max value it can read and using the smallest one makes the reading the most accurate (internally it's comparing against a resister, so they have to be somewhat similar values, hard to measure 100ohms against a 1 million ohm resister with a 1% tolerance which would vary 10,000 ohms and still be in spec)

It's possible the aftermarket CDI is junk/chinese, getting a used OEM one might be a good option, if you know someone that has a 350x, see if you can borrow their CDI to test your machine with it. CDI's aren't really great for testing besides swapping a known good unit in. The service manual gives specs but that's using the exact meter that they list so other models likely will read differently since internally it's transistorized and the voltage from the meter making the measurements is what trips them.

You can also repeat the ohm tests directly at the CDI connector using the wire colors, this tests the harness and connections are good to the components, you might get a very slightly higher ohm reading than directly at them but that's normal. Another test to do at the CDI connector is the black/white wire to green (or any good ground point). It should read no connection (beep mode or put on like 20k ohm range). If it picks up a connection at all, then there's an issue with the wiring or kill switch, but the kill switch design normally fails where you can't turn the machine off, newer machines fail where they won't start (the power for the CDI box routes through them).

Here's a simplified break down of how the CDI system works (all wire colors are from memory):


Exciter coil in stator powers the CDI box (high voltage low amps, completely separate from the lighting coil/system) (black/red wire)
Internally this charges a capacitor and is the "C" in CDI
The pulse generator sends a pulse from a tag on the fly wheel to tell the CDI to fire
The CDI dumps the power through the ignition coil on the black/yellow wire to ground (green), once power stops flowing, the magnetic field collapses and high voltage is generated in the windings which ultimately want to go to ground through the plug wire/spark plug

Black/white wire shorts to ground to kill the engine (it discharges the black/yellow wire to ground instead of going through the coil)
There might have been a green/white wire from the pulse generator, it's effectively just a ground signal wire and if it has it, it's internally connected to the green wire for frame ground

An oscilloscope would show you exactly what's going on, but those aren't cheap and probably unlikely to find a mechanic ship that would let you borrow it. There's also an adapter called a peak voltage tester, this could be useful for your diag work, with no CDI hooked up, exciter coil + ground hooked to the meter through the peak voltage tester would give you a reading, on the 85 style stator, I think I was reading around 70-80v at kick starting rpm. Hooking the CDI back up and hooking the peak voltage tester to the output wires for the coil I think was around 60v on my machine. A normal multi meter cannot read this in an accurate way, but you can see if "something" exists if you put it on AC, it should read something, but the number doesn't really mean too much.

Since the CDI isn't orig, I'd target that first though, the stator, CDI, and ignition coil need to be a matching set effectively, it's a very analog way of doing the ignition system even though the CDI box is somewhat of a fancy electronic device, it's still quite analog too, there's no micro processor/computer inside, but it does process the timing some for spark advancement based on rpm, but it's very minor of my understanding, like 4 different points of advancement.

[Jim mac]

thanks for the lesson on the electrical system. looking at the stripped exh studs, missing pin that holds the decompression lever, really makes my question the ability of the previous owner. He had a lot of atvs and for all I know, he just grabbed whatever fit. He was telling me how he didn't know how to remove the goki side cover. jim

[ps2fixer]

He for sure doesn't do internal engine work then, side covers just have a group of bolts holding it on and it slides off, have to drain the oil first or it's kind of a mess lol.

I just checked the first post again, I see you say the last owner said it lost spark, have you validated it yourself? Never trust what someone else says, check things yourself to be sure. Pull the spark plug, put it in the plug wire and set it against the head (with out touching it, it can give ya a nice zap lol), then kick it over. Shouldn't have to kill all that fast to see spark, on my machine with no plug in it, i can sit on the seat and kick it fast enough to see spark and I'm over 6ft tall. If you see spark, then there's different grades of spark, but basically you're expecting white/blue looking spark that's bright and well defined. Yellow/orange means you have weak spark. White/blue doesn't mean 100% you have good spark but it's a whole lot better than no spark.

If I had my 350x in an easy to get to spot for running it and data logging with my oscilloscope, I'd give more visuals of the signals/powers, probably deeper than most people really need to see, but seeing it sometimes helps things click a little better. I got into demo derby harnesses and the scope has been a great tool for automotive signals, sadly they are very expensive, one I got was $3400 4 channel, and I've already ran into cases where I wished I had the 8 channel one ($6200 lol).

[Jim mac]

definetly has no spark. tried a new plug too. I have parts off a 87 350 foreman, swapped the coil no spark. unhooked the switch just ran the black/white? wire to the coil. tried the foreman cdi and no luck. I've got the green wire bolted to a ground. However the motor is basically sitting in the frame with 1 bolt holding it in loosely. could the motor not be grounded properly? jim

[ps2fixer]

The 350x actually grounds at two points, frame ground ring terminal as well as the stator connector hook ups for the lighting coil.

Pretty sure the 350 CDI won't work for the quad, a lot of the newer stuff like that are DC powered CDI's and are completely different. There's a bunch of pinout changes and such, CDI's are far from a standard part sadly.

Another test with the peak voltage tester if you ended up getting one is the pulse generator, the 350x is before they posted specs, but all of the newer atv's I've seen the spec be bare min 0.7v which is the typical forward voltage of a diode, probably gives a hint to how the circuit works.

Ignition coil should be black/yellow and green, but sun faded harnesses it might look white. Black/white if I'm remembering that color right only runs to the kill switch.

Engine just sitting in the frame shouldn't be a big deal since the engine is the ultimate ground and the coil should have a good path to ground through the harness still, if you have jumper cables, you could try to jump the engine to the frame or throw a bolt in but doubt it will make a big difference.



This isn't the best way to test things, but can give an indication of something happening:

Unplug stator wires, find black/red wire and hook one of your multi meter probes to that, hook the other to ground and put it on AC voltage, probably 200v range and see if it picks up anything while you kick it. I suspect it should register something.

Same concept at the ignition coil, hook up the probes between the black/yellow and green wires to see if the multi meter indicates anything at all, AC 200v range.

If you get a reading from the exciter coil, but not at the ignition coil, do the same test at the pulse generator wires down on the engine, should be blue/yellow, other wire is either green or green/white, should be in the same connector if I remember right. If it's easier, could do it directly at the CDI box connector with the stator wires all hooked up.

This might give some indication what's going on. Is the machine you're working on the one with the 15.7 ohm pulse generator or the one that's super low ohms?

[Jim mac]

the pulse generator is the higher reading one in the trike. him

[Jim mac]

okay, 40 volt appx at the stator while kicking it over.
7 volt ac at the black wire on the coil while kicking it.new ebay stator and coil no spark.

[Jim mac]

pulse gen is now reading 367 ohms

[Jim mac]

stator on 2000 ohm reads 1079drop it to the 200ohm and it reads 165.4

[ps2fixer]

Sounds like you might have a Chinese multi meter if it was like $6 it's probably a junk one that can't make accurate measurements. If it's not a super cheap one, the battery might be dead that can make it read real funky some times. You shouldn't see the values jumping all over the place or anything. Should be able to read it, take the probes off and hook them back up and get a similar reading. The reading vs 200 and 2000 ohm setting shouldn't be wildly different, but probably around +/- 10%, you're readings are showing like a 80% swing.

Anyway, stator voltage seems pretty much in the area I'd expect. The coil reading is real hard to be sure but the fact it's putting anything out shows the CDI is doing something and the pulse generator is good enough to trigger the CDI. Half of the fight could be the "ebay" in your message that basically means no name China. Sometimes they can work, a lot of times they don't work right, and sometimes they don't work at all, all in the name of no quality control or integrity.

Here's the OEM coil brand new, if you went this route I'd suggest replacing the spark plug cap as well.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/30510-HA5-000?ref=fc7fb30a7ba9cda2e8f2bf13277cbed5ce5b88a8

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/30700-965-013?ref=fc7fb30a7ba9cda2e8f2bf13277cbed5ce5b88a8

Anyway, I recall you testing parts from a foreman, if that machine runs, you could try to swap the ignition coil over to that machine from the 350x to validate that it at least functions. You could also take similar readings on it to get a rough idea what a working machine would read, The only exception is I'm not sure if your machine has the DC CDI or AC CDI. TRX350 vs TRX350D, the CDI type was the opposite on those machines from the same era. Coil should work on both though since I'd expect the output would be similar to the 350x.

The voltage reading on the coil wire kind of makes me think it's the output of the CDI that could be the issue, but it's a very short pulse vs a "normal" AC power sine wave. Getting a used 350x CDI box and an OEM ignition coil and I suspect it should run. Also you mentioned an ebay stator, I'd be fearful that it's not balanced right big time with all the other 3rd party parts, but I have zero experience with them. Did the stator come with the fly wheel? There's 2 designs of the stator and fly wheel, so they must match together or you'll run into issues.

Photos would be interesting as well since sometimes I can see something in the photos that could be causing the problem. Like if the handle bar controls were replaced, the kill switch operation could be backwards from normal.

[Jim mac]

thank you for your insight.
guilty on the 6 dollar harbor frieght multi meter
as far as I know, it's a stock stator in both motors
the ebay parts is just the cdi and it came with a new coil so I tried it and got nothing
I did try the 350foreman coil and got nothing
hopefully this weekend I'll pull the cover off the spare motor and swap it over to the trike. I don't have a extra factory cdi to try.
if the wires aren't broke, I imagine it's only the stator, pulse generator, coil or cdi.
I did hook the black wire to the switch but left the other 3 wires unhooked. I believe the brown green and white wires are just for the lights. Looking at the schematics, it looks like I can leave the black wire unhooked too. jim

[ps2fixer]

Yep, the kill wire shorts to ground for off, so for getting spark it can be disconnected.

Harbor freight might be a touch better Chinese stuff, but view it as a tool, that's a $6 tool set vs name brand running $50, and higher end professional running $100-200 to put a little context on it. To put the same ratios in effect if a brand new F250 truck is $45,000 and say it's the $100 version of the tool, the Harbor freight one would be like a brand new F250 Chinese made for $2700. I know not everything is 100% quality is tied to price, but general rule of thumb is you get what you pay for.

Here's the 85 style stator and flywheel. On the fly wheel note the line inside the drum as a good sign for that version.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384944384034

This is the 86 style stator and fly wheel. Stator you can clearly see the difference, the fly wheel I look at the outer lip, looks like it has a snap ring around it and of course no line inside the drum like the 85 style.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384859799313

As long as fly wheel and stator type matches it will work, the 86 style works better generally, I haven't personally tested it but I think it puts out a higher exciter coil voltage similar to newer models so aftermarket CDI's and such seems to work better on them.


When you mentioned the ebay parts, I expected them to be brand new off ebay which is like 95% of the time Chinese crap. I don't personally buy new stuff on amazon or ebay because they are also plagued with fake Chinese parts too. Here's a prime example but there's known fake spark plugs, cabin filters, and such. I'm sure it's not just Toyota parts they fake. Some people I've talked to claim NGK and Denso plugs are junk, I think their experience is with the Chinese fake junk though as I've ran them for 10+ years in Jap engines and never had a bit of problem from them. I put like 80k miles on standard spark plugs in my corolla with it burning oil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEWb0491JdQ


Anyway, for the foreman thing, I was asking to go in reverse, try the 350x coil you have on the foreman.

There's not much to the ignition system on these, so yea, stator, flywheel (together they are an alternator), CDI box, ignition coil, pulse generator, and the wiring is the list of ignition related parts. Kill switch of course is part of it but just disconnecting it "bypasses" it. Here's a visual on the system.

https://i.gyazo.com/5782b7fecf93df8cf71359cbce2cc712.png


On the side of multi meters, here's a cheap one that works pretty well. It's not my fav at all kind of slow and not a huge fan of the auto ranging stuff but the price point is reasonable.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/innova/tools---equipment/diagnostic-tools/multimeters---analyzers/91385708a635/innova-multimeter/inn0/3320

Here's a similar multi meter used from likely the 90's back when radio shack was an electronics (like build electronics) store. I've been using one of these since I was a teen, they were like $20-25 back then new lol. They do auto ranging as well so a bit of a learning curve there with how to read it, but it's generally pretty quick for readings, beep mode and such.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125754875683

To compare, here's a higher end multi meter for someone that would be doing this type of stuff daily. It should be on par or better than Fluke (there are different grades for them as well)

https://www.eevblog.com/product/eevblog-bm786-multimeter/

Here's a manual range selection meter that would be similar to the one you got, the one I used was really cheap feeling but it did function alright. Not sure what ever happened to that thing though. Manual range selection is nice for easy of use for instructing people how to make a reading, but auto range is basically the standard today so I don't think there's too many quality meters with manual range section any more.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144892722755

[Jim mac]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-63759.html&ved=2ahUKEwiylpbu77D9AhVLEUQIHTf8D6QQjBB6BAgMEAM&usg=AOvVaw0fQtkW7Hc53oOJwUEeZcp7
this is the one I bought, ill stop and get one at orielys today. jim

[ps2fixer]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-63759.html&ved=2ahUKEwiylpbu77D9AhVLEUQIHTf8D6QQjBB6BAgMEAM&usg=AOvVaw0fQtkW7Hc53oOJwUEeZcp7
this is the one I bought, ill stop and get one at orielys today. jim

If they are anything like the black ones on ebay, they are complete garbage. I bought like 6 of these of ebay when they where $6, used them basically one and threw them in the trash. I've had 2 or 3 sets of probes fall apart, the tips are coated with that China metal that is horrible for conducting (sanding it off down to the brass it works way better). The same coating is on the side that goes into the multi meter too so have to cut the plastic off and sand down the contacts there. Doing all of that and it can read fairly stable results but can't read anything under like 20 ohms accurately. Shorting the probes together should give 0.00 ohm reading or extremely close. Before I sanded the china ones down, they'd read like 20-100 ohms (in the 200 ohm setting), after sanding I was reading around 6 ohms which ran pretty consistent so in theory a 7.5 ohm reading would be 1.5 ohms, but I never validated if that's an accurate way to treat that base line. I think I also took the multimeter apart and sanded the rotary dial contacts too. It's been a while since I did all the work to make it usable.

China wire really shows their integrity in the products, they use super thick insulation and very little copper wire, so a wire that looks like it's 18 gauge is actually like 26 gauge, that's the main reason the probes fell apart on me, there was so little copper it easily broke since no strain relief at the probes and their rubber/plastics tend to be pretty bad.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/132290173079?epid=1201525275

On the demo derby side of things, I bought some Chinese reproductions of Japanese style connectors for cars, and they worked out alright. Same supplier I bought GM style connectors from, and they were so bad I couldn't use them. They wanted me to photo and give proof of each bad defective connector when the whole batch was defective. I had like $300 in connectors that I couldn't use. I've since switched to 100% OEM connectors whenever possible, might cost 10x more, but I don't have to worry about the connectors falling apart on customers. I'm pretty much done messing with the China stuff, once in a while you can find something that isn't complete garbage, but when you have to buy 10 to find 1 good one, you're better off just buying the original at the 10x china price.

Harbor Freight does have a name behind it, so the Chinese stuff they sell generally is a touch better quality but some of their stuff is complete garbage you'd want to avoid, some of their stuff is quite good for the price point. I have several of their Pittsburgh tool sets that normally go on sale for $100. The last one I got the quality dropped on though. The sockets, ratchets, and wrenches seem to be pretty good, haven't broken one yet. I've broken the old USA made craftsman tools. I'm sure they aren't built as good as a name brand high end tool, but it seems on par with the Chinese home owner grade at least (modern day craftsman for example I say these are better than but the Chinese ones aren't 1/10th the price either).

Anyway, kind of side tracked a bit on the China topic, but there's too may people blindly going for the cheapest thing. It drives the good quality companies out of business. That's one of the main reasons I'm not really in the atv parts industry now, flooded with Chinese crap and people buy that stuff up like crazy even though the parts don't even fit right instead of the part I sell for about 2x the price that fits right and won't have issues for much longer (still 25-50% of OEM prices if it's even made yet).


Anyway, it's not so much the source of the product that's the issue, the actual brand, who makes it is. Like the Innova one I linked before, I have the same one so I know the probes aren't complete garbage and it holds readings that appear to be accurate. I've seen the garbage ones for sale at parts stores too and are the ones to avoid. I bought one of those $5 analog meters before just to have the analog style, very very cheaply built (what do you expect for $5). I basically never used it since it's so nice having a digital read out instead of guessing the reading based on where the needle is.

I do know the craftsman multimeters are to be avoided, $30 marked up with a name brand $6 junk China meter. Bought it from a store that was going out of business for like 75% off. I figured the big name on it would mean there would be some type of quality, but I guess craftsman doesn't care about that any more. I think the big problem is, companies get away with making them garbage because most people don't know why they get such weird readings that range all over the place, so they don't blame the tool for the issues.


Anyway, once you get a multi meter and validate it it consistently get 0.00 ohm reading by shorting the probes together (could do that right in the store after buying it, it should be calibrated new), then getting the following readings would be interesting:

Black/red to green at stator connectors
Green/white to blue/yellow at stator connectors
between the two posts on the ignition coil with it disconnected
secondary coil for the ignition coil (spark plug to one of the posts, can't remember which one, I think it's the black wire side) - there's no spec for this, but should be roughly 8.5k-10k ohms

Extra reading that could be interesting would be the spark plug cap, it should unthread from the coil wire and you'd read on each side, normally they are around 5k ohms. Lower isn't really a problem for it to run, but higher, or no connection could make for a no spark situation too.

Of course the ohm readings isn't everything possible to go wrong, but it should be the most common faults. The fly wheel to pulse generator gap is another factor, non adjustable but it's possible for it to get bent. Had one person that had that issue before, machine would run but wasn't very crisp and that gap was bigger than normal. They bent it tighter and ran as good as their other machine. Stator gap is the other factor, which is basically having the matching stator + fly wheel type, and of course spark plug gap could be a factor too.

[Jim mac]

okay, went and boigjt a 35 dollar multi meter.
my pulse generator was reading a little high so I swapped the spare pulse generator read 330. original one read 370. stator reads at 79. I tried the original coil, foreman coil and the coil that came with the ebay cdi.
I'm wondering if the goki starter gear could be messing with the pulse generator pickup?
I need a larger bolt to pull the flywheel off, I'm thinking of just swapping the flywheel.
I did check the black/white black yellow wires to male sure they weren't broken or shorted. The switch has been unplugged. jim

[Jim mac]

I saw your previous post about using a 400ex cdi, went and ordered a factory used one off ebay to hopefully find out if the black China ones really are junk. will report back when it gets here. jim

[ps2fixer]

I don't recall if the 400ex CDI has the same pinout or not, I did a lot of shuffling pins around on my 350x harness testing different CDI's. I probably mentioned about that in my post though.

A reading of 370 ohms vs max allowed reading being 363 I'd count as within spec, big time if it's hot where you're at since those figures are likely around 70F. Hotter the coils get, the higher the ohms it reads, lower the temp the lower the ohms is, that's why there's a range, that and each one might have a slightly different length of wire in the coil.

Do you have a TRX350? You have a coil from one so I figure you have the rest of the machine?

Stator reading sounds about the same as my 350x's both with the 85 style stator. I remember it being in the 70's like 75 ohms.

Looking like the ohm figures are pretty well in check. How's the ignition coils test for ohms?

https://i.gyazo.com/d4d680d86755cb15f14a94e583b3f30b.png

[Jim mac]

coil read 4.26 and 1.2
I bougjt the foreman mainly for a spare cam for my 350x. I stripped the head, cylinder, wiring, and every nut and bolt off it then sent it to the scrap yard
this is the post that got me to order a 400 ex cdi
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/187411-China-CDI-Reviews-on-ATC350X&ved=2ahUKEwiJmrSbnrL9AhVZPkQIHX22BaEQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1mobMcylpOyBbEpKuf2yiE

[ps2fixer]

Why does every link you post route through google? Like why not link directly? Just kind of confusing seeing a google link then it goes to 3ww lol.

Looks like that thread I'm basically saying the pinout is the same or I forgot to mention if it matches for those since it's in the "bonus" section.

Sucks about the trx350, some of the bottom end parts work on atc250es/sx too. The side cover for example would fit a 350x even though it's extra wide for the clutch, don't remember if there's any wearable surfaces that are different but the bolt pattern is the same. The rear axle is worth $$$ too, the guys mud bogging the TRX300's like to upgrade to the TRX350/D rear ends or ATC250ES. Diff alone is worth $200+ pretty easily.


Coil specs seem to be pretty far out, 0.2 ohms is the max, looks like you're reading 1.2 ohms (6x higher resistance). How does the other coils you have measure up?

Looked up the specs for the TRX350 and TRX350D, looks like with out spark plug cap it's pretty similar specs, my guess with the spark plug cap on wasn't too far off too =). Also note the top row, standard is at 68F, clearly you can't perfectly measure at that temp, so being outside of the range a little bit is no problem if it lines up with the temp difference.

FYI, Fourtrax has the AC CDI and an exciter coil, Foreman has the DC CDI and no exciter coil.

https://i.gyazo.com/9a7376adcb28183866e5337428abfd15.png

[Jim mac]

I'm really dont know about linking old stuff. I usually hold my finger over whatever link I was reading and the drop down says copy link address then I hit paste.
I'll double check the other coils, pretty sure they read lower
but will post up.
Really appreciate all the help.
The 350d I did donate the rearend to another trike guy who wanted it for his SX. jim

[Jim mac]

I've tried multiple plugs but I haven't tried pulling the boot off the wire and checked spark without the boot. jim

[ps2fixer]

I see, must have some sort of google plugin or something, to me it looks like a tracking url for them to try to make more money with their data collection, but that's another topic lol. I guess the big thing is it works.

The ohm reading is a bit off for no spark plug cap, since it was within spec I figured you pulled it off. It's not super common, but sometimes the end of the spark plug wire goes bad and cutting off a little bit (like 1/4 in) and screwing the spark plug cap back in refreshes things pretty well, but ideally the multimeter would show the no connection situation for that too.

[Jim mac]

I did remove the cap and got readings. I looked at my notes the other coil was .4 and 4.26
of course it was 74* out yesterday so a great time to work on the trike. woke up this morning and it's snowing!!!

it was so easy trouble shooting my 84 200x, I had 1 running and 1 that had starting running issues. checked everything to the running one, and found a out of spec stator. jim

[Jim mac]

talking to a bike guru. the motor on the 350x is sitting in the frame with the bottom bolt loosely stuffed in, motor rocks when kicking it, can a bad ground cause this issue? jim

[ps2fixer]

Grounds are needed, but the harness should be connecting engine and frame together. Wouldn't hurt to throw a bolt in and snug it up.

74, that's summer xD, over here It's been riding around 20's, got a heat wave today hitting almost 40 and everything is starting to melt lol.

[Jim mac]

went out and ran a ground wire from the motor to the frame where the harness grounds to. no spark, tried all 3 coils nothing. pulled the plug boot and no spark.
so the 2 cdis I have I put a probe on the pin that gets the black/red wire from the stator. 6 pins double connector on the right the black red connects to the bottom right touch the probe to the middle bottom where the green goes and get 472 then 472 going to the bottom left green white wire.
top row nothing on the left or middle
blue then black yellow. then the top right black white the meter goes to 001 this is all with the meter on continuity
and this is the new cdi
the cdi that came with the trike
bottom right touch middle then left both reads 004
top row left middle nothing top right 001 so these 2 cdi aren't the same. jim

[Jim mac]

I checked the green white and blue yellow pins at the connector and getting 316 so the bulge generator is within spec and connected.
stator reads 76 at the connector going from the black red to a green pin.
I'll see what happens with the 400ex cdi when it gets here unless there's any other suggestions I can try? thanks again. it's a pain but will be worth it when I see a spark.
I even thought about just grabbing the bare plug wire, im sure it would work then
jim

[ps2fixer]

The CDI's being ohmed out directly don't really mean much unless you use the exact same tool they suggest in the service manual from the 80's. How the meter takes it's readings can be different from meter to meter.

I've done that before ironically, no spark, grab the plug wire and feel how "week" it is. It's kind of hard to judge, but if it doesn't bug you much, it's probably weak spark lol.


Stator and pulse generator seem to be good electronically. Ignition coil is a little off but I would think you'd still get something out of it. CDI is the linking factor between the two sides so that could be the key item.

[ATC King]

The spark plug caps have a resistor, either built in or removable.

If it's removable there's a slot on the plug side and the piece is taken out with a screwdriver. There should be a spring in there with the resistor which looks like the size and shape of a glass automotive fuse. A solid piece of copper can be used in place of the resistor.

If it's not removable, the whole cap needs replaced, if that's the issue.

[Jim mac]

I did check and there is resistance in the cap. jim

[Jim mac]

is it possible to hook a 12 volt lead to the black/red wire a d a ground to the motor using a battery charger,.kick it over and see if it sparks or can I melt something down?
Having a trike sit for days is killing me! I did install a new master cylinder and bleed tje front brakes today. just waiting for the cdi. jim

[Jim mac]

400ex cdi showed up. plugged it in and nada, zero, no Bueno, epic fail!!! :(.
Plan D. when i get a chance, I'm getting a bolt to pull the flywheel off the spare motor and swap the stock flywheel and stock side cover onto the motor. is it possible the goki side cover has the pulse gen a little too fast away from the tab on the flywheel????
I did try 2 different coils. we figured the stator was within spec. the pulse generator within spec. swapping all these parts are coming up with the same results. maybe it's time to change what hasn't been changed. jim

[ps2fixer]

Possible, while you have it apart take a pic of the stator + fly wheel for both machines. Also if the other engine is together it might be faster to transfer the parts over onto that engine to test for spark with out having to open the engine up as long as you can kick it over, pull the plug so it doesn't fight you and ground the coil and harness well, jumper cable should work for testing. If all the same parts from your current setup works on the other engine, then we know it's something to do with the stator/pulse generator. If still no spark, then unlikely both engines the same issue inside the engine.

[Jim mac]

the other motor has the cylinder removed. This is the pulse generator and stator I pulled off the complete engine I have to get a flywheel puller or a bolt to swap the flywheel because the flywheel on the trike has the goki ring gear attached and the stock side cover won't fit. jim

[Jim mac]

I should have mentioned both stator looks the same. I did check the engine vin and both motors come back as 1985 motors. jim

[ps2fixer]

Yep, that's the older style stator, lower ohm spec, so it did pass the ohm test then.

The pulse generator is the little black box in the stator cover. If I remember right it ohmed good. Not sure how hard it would be to bend it towards the fly wheel just a little bit. Don't want to too close to hit the tab on the fly wheel.

There's a proper tool for taking the fly wheel off, cheap on ebay and should be reliable and not cause damage (correct hardness and such). A standard bolt with the right metric threading should work too, the listing does say what the bolt size is and the thread pitch.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195368967244

[Jim mac]

I ordered the tool last night. the local ace only had a m20-2.-5

[Jim mac]

I appreciate all the help trying to get this trike to start. Ended up selling the whole thing to another atc hoarder/collector. he's got 3 350x trikes and a good electrician to work on it. Threw in the extra motor, the new flywheel puller etc for exactly what I had I to it. he's interested in one of my 185s trikes for his kids. just have to convince myself to let 1 go. jim

[Dirtcrasher]

I once had the larger flywheel on the smaller stator, too much clearance to get a good spark and run. I had multiple NEW take out motors, pieces and parts and somehow mixed up the flywheel.

That was a HORRIBLE time for me, took me months to realize what a simple stupid mistake I had made. One stator allows both flywheels to slip over it but only 1 has the clearance to work correctly...