1983 ATC 200 engine/transmission rebuild cost expectations?

[zebvance]

I have a 1983 ATC 200 that has given tons of smiles and been rode hard. She is old, leaking oil, slipping through the gears, noisy and as of tonight, died and won’t start anymore. But, paint and plastics are in amazing shape, and I use it almost everyday, so I’m going to fix it. I have checked basic stuff: fuel, spark and air, and still no start on pull. Cam chain got extremely loud over the past several months. Regardless, instead of messing with it I just want to do the full rebuild she deserves. looking to squeeze a bit more power out of her if I can. I have already bought a bigger carb recommended by four stroke tech. Also ordering a DC rcm exhaust tonight. And was leaning to buying this head/ sleeve and piston kit from mrtwistedwheelersworld.com.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255723614691?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=LmuD7V-fTFq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=EAOY2UvUSsG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

With that said, what should I expect to pay for the rebuild while providing these parts, and fixing the sliping through all gears as well. Just trying to get a feel for what is fair and not.

Also open to any other recommendations on the build.

[oldskool83]

Grand if done right full motor rebuild

[350for350]

I have no idea about the quality of that kit. Maybe it's good, maybe it's not. Here's a few things to keep in mind. I've seen a lot of people say that they've had bad experiences with buying things from Mr. Twisted Wheeler. His reputation isn't great. In the description of the lit you listed, he says that his piston is 10.5:1 on compression. Fine. Then it says that stock compression is "9-8-1". I assume that's supposed to mean that the stock compression ratio is 9.8:1, but that's wrong. The stock compression ration is 7.8:1 and it even says so right here on the home page listed in the Honda specifications. Next it says that this kit will not fit a ATC200X, but doesn't list a reason why. I know that it won't work on a '86/7 200X, but I don't know why it wouldn't work on a '83-'85 200X. With all of this in mind, I, personally, would steer clear of that particular kit. On fact, I would buy the next oversized piston and have your current cylinder bored to fit it.

[SoFarKingSlow]

You could also try to find an ATC 200 with a beat up body and take the engine and tranny from it. But there are the obvious risks associated with that. I just brought back a 250sx. After sitting, the body was garbage, but the sealed motor and tranny were fine (ish).

[oldskool83]

everythings 40 years old, you guys think the stuffs in good shape yet lol. Fix what you have lol. I buy two typicay to make one out of. I just did a warrior motor for a guy and we went thru 3 bottom ends to get all the parts he needed.

[Shad Owe]

Put a China engine in it for about 400 bucks save yourself the time and money rebuilding.

[zebvance]

I have no idea about the quality of that kit. Maybe it's good, maybe it's not. Here's a few things to keep in mind. I've seen a lot of people say that they've had bad experiences with buying things from Mr. Twisted Wheeler. His reputation isn't great. In the description of the lit you listed, he says that his piston is 10.5:1 on compression. Fine. Then it says that stock compression is "9-8-1". I assume that's supposed to mean that the stock compression ratio is 9.8:1, but that's wrong. The stock compression ration is 7.8:1 and it even says so right here on the home page listed in the Honda specifications. Next it says that this kit will not fit a ATC200X, but doesn't list a reason why. I know that it won't work on a '86/7 200X, but I don't know why it wouldn't work on a '83-'85 200X. With all of this in mind, I, personally, would steer clear of that particular kit. On fact, I would buy the next oversized piston and have your current cylinder bored to fit it.


Thanks for this info. Now you have me leaning away from that kit. Was also recommended to just do a 10:1 wiseco piston and a xr200 cam. might just go that route.

[MrConcdid]

A shindy piston and rings, a vertex gasket kit, a shindy primary clutch and one way bearing, ebc secondary clutch and plates, a hone or send your cylinder off for a overbore, new valves, seals and guides, lap your valves, D.I.D. timing chain and guides and 4 qts of oil (for a few oil changes after the build) this will get you another 10 years.
You can do it all at home except if you need to bore your cylinder.

MrC.

[zebvance]

Thanks for all the input. Just an update. Dropping it off at the shop next week. Very good shop, used them before. Professional and extremely knowledgeable and experienced. They quoted an estimate of 7 hours at $120 per hr plus parts for the full rebuild. It’s a bit high I feel, but knowing their quality of work I’m ok with it. I have the new carb and exhaust that I’m dropping off with them and they suggested me wait till they get it torn apart to see the condition of the internals before I buy any performance upgrades such as a piston or cam. Which makes sense to me. Biggest bummer though is they are 6-8 weeks out.

[Shad Owe]

Thanks for all the input. Just an update. Dropping it off at the shop next week. Very good shop, used them before. Professional and extremely knowledgeable and experienced. They quoted an estimate of 7 hours at $120 per hr plus parts for the full rebuild. It’s a bit high I feel, but knowing their quality of work I’m ok with it. I have the new carb and exhaust that I’m dropping off with them and they suggested me wait till they get it torn apart to see the condition of the internals before I buy any performance upgrades such as a piston or cam. Which makes sense to me. Biggest bummer though is they are 6-8 weeks out.So wait 8 weeks plus build time and pay $1000 by the time it's said and done instead of spending $400 on a brand new engine that will show up in 4 days.

Make it make sense

[oldskool83]

I charge $30 /hr to people at work. One guy had 2 machines at dealers and both gave him $1000 bill for about 3 parts. An OEM manual would benefit you. XR cam might do a bit, almost all of those are worn out also and no 14-16 weeks back ordered from partzilla....they will be gone soon I feel.

8 weeks.....the way it is getting parts to show up that are just on ebay is a nightmare. Rebuild it over winter. Summer rebuilds I feel are only for the guys with multiple machines. The warrior motor I redid once i got in there is was so bad and it was just rebuilt!. guy had all the piston rings gapped on 1 side within 1/2" of each other. I feel in this sport unless you man up and learn what you are doing you might as well just buy new toys.

[rpeters]

FROM Barnett468

There is no replacement for displacement. I'm not an expert on the 200 by any means but an engine is an engine and the same type of performance mods apply to at least most of them.

wiseco supposedly makes a 2 mm larger piston for the 200 that I believe is also higher compression. You can call them to verify. If that is the case I would start with that. It will definitely cause your engine to cool less efficiently, so if it were me using that piston, I would bore it slightly on the loose side. Plus always let it warm up longer than you would with a stock bore . Using high quality oil (see how I slipped that in there guys, lol) like one that is primarily consists of group 4 type oil like Mobil 1 20w 50 v twin oil will also increase the life of any engine and will cool it more effectively than group 3 oil.

An oil cooler will also make it run cooler and last longer when running in warm weather. Below is a link with some info. The drilling is best done with the engine apart to insure that any bits of aluminum that get in there during the drilling process can be removed.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/64184-200s-oil-cooler

Mild cylinder porting by a knowledgeable porter will help get the most out of big bore kits and/or larger camshafts. Just increasing compression will also give a slight increase in power.

Also, on most vehicles where the gearing can be changed, they will accelerate quicker if numerically higher gears are installed.. If you never run your bike at top speed, you will benefit from a slight gear change like going up 2 teeth on the rear sprocket.

Increasing power can also cause even a new stock clutch to slip in some cases. If your clutch is bad which it sounds like one of them is, and you replace them, and it slips when shifting under hard acceleration, you can usually preload the springs on the main clutch with 1 an type washer on each spring. This will also cause the shift lever to require a little more force to move.

Exactly what carb are you interested in?i

Here's a link to the piston.

https://madpowersports.com/wiseco-67mm-honda-atc200-series-2638xc-piston-4289m06700-4289m06700/?gclid=CjwKCAjw6IiiBhAOEiwALNqncWy8GQatCUhMYhEvRJw RLVxpPo1gC3-h3iqydMdai5Bg_2vgzjSy9xoCCqEQAvD_BwE

[zebvance]

So wait 8 weeks plus build time and pay $1000 by the time it's said and done instead of spending $400 on a brand new engine that will show up in 4 days.

Make it make sense

Makes sense if I want to keep the original OEM engine.... Not interested in anything else besides oem.

[Shad Owe]

Makes sense if I want to keep the original OEM engine.... Not interested in anything else besides oem.

Bought a bigger carb an aftermarket exhaust wants to resleeve it and wants more suggestions for mods but also wants to keep it all OEM.

Lol.

A 229cc 167fml will still walk it when you're done. Big bore to 255cc is $60. And get electric start. And your original motor can sit there or you can take 5 years to rebuild it yourself. But you're right. Your plan for spending double and being out of a bike for months makes total sense. Do that instead.

[zebvance]

Changing some internals is one thing, but putting a non-Honda engine core is another.... And it's my rig, I have the right to build it how I want. If you're ok with putting a different motor in yours, you have right to and its your choice, there is not a right and wrong thing to do in this case, And I wouldn't try to change your opinion on why you want to do that. I never asked what the cheapest option was, I just asked what to expect cost wise for the rebuild compared to current market prices, so I have something to judge if I'm getting hosed or not.

[Shad Owe]

Changing some internals is one thing, but putting a non-Honda engine core is another.... And it's my rig, I have the right to build it how I want. If you're ok with putting a different motor in yours, you have right to and its your choice, there is not a right and wrong thing to do in this case, And I wouldn't try to change your opinion on why you want to do that. I never asked what the cheapest option was, I just asked what to expect cost wise for the rebuild compared to current market prices, so I have something to judge if I'm getting hosed or not.

It's not the cheapest option by far. It's the best option per dollar. If you don't care about wasting money that's understandable. I'm not trying to change your opinion I'm posting my suggestions which you asked for so that others can also read the best option. If it weren't just an atc200 it would make more sense. Good luck

[The Llöyd]

So wait 8 weeks plus build time and pay $1000 by the time it's said and done instead of spending $400 on a brand new engine that will show up in 4 days.

Make it make sense


Just curious as you brought this up twice, but where can one find a $400 motor that will drop in to a atc200? Serious question, I’m all for a motor swap than a rebuild when the price is right but have never seen a new quality motor cheaper than the parts for a rebuild.

Llöyd

[oscarmayer]

that is a china parts kit. probably about $125-$150 total in parts. twisted is a scam, stay away from them.
if it were me i would do the following.
Order a wiseco piston for it. a 10.25:1 is fine. (pull your cylinder and measure to see id and then go 1mm over to ensure it will be clean)
order a complete versah engine gasket kit (they may offer one with oil seals too)
order a complete oil seal kit from
all these can be had off ebay. having your cylinder bored/hones runs $80-$100 now days.
this is about $350-$400 total in parts and machining.
also you can get a new timing chain guild and chain. get a did chain for it.
clutch setup, a barnett is a good setup so get one of them as well.
this would bring you into the $500 in parts but you do all the labor yourself.

[Shad Owe]

that is a china parts kit. probably about $125-$150 total in parts. twisted is a scam, stay away from them.
if it were me i would do the following.
Order a wiseco piston for it. a 10.25:1 is fine. (pull your cylinder and measure to see id and then go 1mm over to ensure it will be clean)
order a complete versah engine gasket kit (they may offer one with oil seals too)
order a complete oil seal kit from
all these can be had off ebay. having your cylinder bored/hones runs $80-$100 now days.
this is about $350-$400 total in parts and machining.
also you can get a new timing chain guild and chain. get a did chain for it.
clutch setup, a barnett is a good setup so get one of them as well.
this would bring you into the $500 in parts but you do all the labor yourself.

Nice to see the scammer back. I see Mr. C appreciates your advice. Must be buds.

What Oscar won't tell you is that he's never shown a single shred of evidence that he's ever gotten any of his builds running and Mr C likes to take motors out 3 or 4 times before he builds em right.

Search 200cc engine on eBay. Buy one. You're welcome.

[207wheelin]

Almost feels like this place is becoming more like Facebook by the day. Baseless allegations and shi_ty attitudes abound.

[Shad Owe]

Almost feels like this place is becoming more like Facebook by the day. Baseless allegations and shi_ty attitudes abound.

Baseless? Tell that to the people Oscar helped Milner scam! We all watched it!

You don't know what you're talking about bro move on!

[207wheelin]

I'll move on when I feel like moving on...bro.

[Shad Owe]

I'll move on when I feel like moving on...bro.

Oh ffs weener sniffer no one gives a tiny fuk what you have to say

[Shad Owe]

"but obviously you do cuz you responded blah blah"

Good lord it has NOTHING to do with you and you have no idea what you're talking about. Have another drink loser

[oscarmayer]

yea, your not on facebook are you?
Shad, i have several high end builds known to people there. your welcome to hop on there on several places from trupa, to hondahorders, and 350x and more groups. they will tell you.
i think you seem to have me confused with someone else. i produce high end CDI units for trikes and other parts as well. people love them and my products have a 100% money back garranty. if I'm a bad person how come i have people waiting in line for my stuff? please research before you accuse soemone of scamming. twisted has been known to lie and rip people off time and time again. their work is shabby at best and they have had a slew of problems including leagel issues with the owner.

[oscarmayer]

first off, i did not help people get scammed. i also talked to people privatly and offered to cover costs or help but they all denied it. so maybe before you continue talking like you are you may wanna research?

[oscarmayer]

i agree! i would also love to see a $400 delivered 200cc motor..

[Shad Owe]

first off, i did not help people get scammed. i also talked to people privatly and offered to cover costs or help but they all denied it. so maybe before you continue talking like you are you may wanna research?

When people offer to fix things it's because they know they broke them... You wouldn't have offered if you weren't guilty... Why would you lol. Makes absolutely no sense and when something doesn't make sense it's because it's a fukken lie.

Glad it was so easy to get you to acknowledge what happened.

[MrConcdid]

[QUOTE=Shad Owe;1532167]Nice to see the scammer back. I see Mr. C appreciates your advice. Must be buds.


Since you want to include me in your post I will reply to you this time.
Names like Wiseco, Shindy and D.I.D. are well known names in the aftermarket parts world. You can say they are not Honda but they are not junk parts either. Pro riders use all of those brands and yes its an industry.
You like to mention I had to pull a motor 3 times to get it right, yep I admit to making a few mistakes on the first 350x rebuild, I am not ashamed, I pinched a ring and had a leaky valve. I learned a lot and its still is running today.
Why does that bother you so, This is the 3rd time you have mentioned it, Is that what you like to do? you like bring up other peoples mistakes?
kind'a petty, but that tells us a lot about more about you than, those you try to smear.

Please share more wisdom like some of your other helpful tips " you should buy a modern machine" or my new favorite in this post "Search 200cc engine on eBay. Buy one."

[Shad Owe]

[QUOTE=Shad Owe;1532167]Nice to see the scammer back. I see Mr. C appreciates your advice. Must be buds.


Since you want to include me in your post I will reply to you this time.
Names like Wiseco, Shindy and D.I.D. are well known names in the aftermarket parts world. You can say they are not Honda but they are not junk parts either. Pro riders use all of those brands and yes its an industry.
You like to mention I had to pull a motor 3 times to get it right, yep I admit to making a few mistakes on the first 350x rebuild, I am not ashamed, I pinched a ring and had a leaky valve. I learned a lot and its still is running today.
Why does that bother you so, This is the 3rd time you have mentioned it, Is that what you like to do? you like bring up other peoples mistakes?
kind'a petty, but that tells us a lot about more about you than, those you try to smear.

Please share more wisdom like some of your other helpful tips " you should buy a modern machine" or my new favorite in this post "Search 200cc engine on eBay. Buy one."

Lol.

Because you always post like you're the holy provider of wisdom from above

No one said anything about the brands and no one cares. Oscar has been repeating the same copy paste schtick since the dawn of time yet never ever ever ever completes a motor build so all he is doing is naming parts off.

Take advice from people that this is EASY STUFF for, not people people who A: are clearly learning themselves or B: make it sound like a top end on a 200x is something they do 3 times a week when in fact they never, ever finish engine builds. Ever.

[Jim mac]

great thing with MRC builds is he shows the real world issues all of us have working on stuff. We make certain jobs sound easy but that's because we screwed up alot and learned from our and others screwups. These trikes are getting to be 40 years old, they were built to be ridden hard over the years so stuff gets missed when we work on stuff. People like MRC builds posts stuff in common sense way that a novice can watch and learn. And the whole point of this place is to get more people involved in the 3 wheeler hobby. And to help others fix their trikes.
These forums are great because there are a lot of people that's started with total piles of junk and brought them back. So of us spent more than the trikes worth but there are people that will spend thousands of dollars chasing a little white ball all over a golf course and have nothing to show for it at the end of the day, or swilling 12 beers on a Monday night watching guys throw a leather ball around. Personally I'd rather work on a trike or my chevelles or camaro.
jim

I should say the biggest problem watching MRC builds is everytime he pulls out another project it gets me looking for another trike and I'm out of room! I had to park a 200x at the kids house while we had a slab poured. jim

[Shad Owe]

great thing with MRC builds is he shows the real world issues all of us have working on stuff. We make certain jobs sound easy but that's because we screwed up alot and learned from our and others screwups. These trikes are getting to be 40 years old, they were built to be ridden hard over the years so stuff gets missed when we work on stuff. People like MRC builds posts stuff in common sense way that a novice can watch and learn. And the whole point of this place is to get more people involved in the 3 wheeler hobby. And to help others fix their trikes.
These forums are great because there are a lot of people that's started with total piles of junk and brought them back. So of us spent more than the trikes worth but there are people that will spend thousands of dollars chasing a little white ball all over a golf course and have nothing to show for it at the end of the day, or swilling 12 beers on a Monday night watching guys throw a leather ball around. Personally I'd rather work on a trike or my chevelles or camaro.
jim

I should say the biggest problem watching MRC builds is everytime he pulls out another project it gets me looking for another trike and I'm out of room! I had to park a 200x at the kids house while we had a slab poured. jim

Lord. None of this has to do with him other than I noticed he's palling around with a KNOWN scammer here. That makes him PERSONA NON GRATA to me.

[MrConcdid]

Liking some ones comment does not make someone pals.
I love how you judged my character by a thumbs up on someone else's post.
The next time you need to change your avatar name, may be use Karen.

[zebvance]

@Shad Owe, thanks for hi jacking my thread at this point to just trash talk and instigate. If you want to talk S*it to people go through the DMs and let the reply's that relate to the topic at hand post. You run your mouth on other threads you have made about admins deleting people on here as if it was an inside job, and they are the ones that are the reason this forum is dying, and people won't stay to keep the info flowing into this forum. Look at your last half a dozen post on this thread... YOU are the reason people are not staying and leaving the forum. Use me as the example: first time newbie that has tread lightly on the forum to learn and get advice. At just a mesley 28 posts in I'm out. I didn't come here to listen to an ignorant prick as yourself here-say and get your jellybean sized jewels off by being a keyboard warrior. I was just looking for some advice from people that had experience without seeing other people get pissed on.

Basically, Screw Off!

[Shad Owe]

@Shad Owe, thanks for hi jacking my thread at this point to just trash talk and instigate. If you want to talk S*it to people go through the DMs and let the reply's that relate to the topic at hand post. You run your mouth on other threads you have made about admins deleting people on here as if it was an inside job, and they are the ones that are the reason this forum is dying, and people won't stay to keep the info flowing into this forum. Look at your last half a dozen post on this thread... YOU are the reason people are not staying and leaving the forum. Use me as the example: first time newbie that has tread lightly on the forum to learn and get advice. At just a mesley 28 posts in I'm out. I didn't come here to listen to an ignorant prick as yourself here-say and get your jellybean sized jewels off by being a keyboard warrior. I was just looking for some advice from people that had experience without seeing other people get pissed on.

Basically, Screw Off!

No shlt SHERLOCK you think I'm here to paint rainbows after being hustled outta here lol. Get fukkkked

[Scootertrash]

No shlt SHERLOCK you think I'm here to paint rainbows after being hustled outta here lol. Get fukkkked

Winning hearts and minds like every other time you've come back I see, as well as admitting that the only reason you're here is to be a dick.

Get a life, FFS