Blue Marble trouble....

[Darius1502]

Well I took the suggestions of some of the folks on here and tried blue marble.

When I first put it in my Tri Z I noticed alot of smoke and some hesitation in the low end portion of the powerband.

After about 30 minutes of riding the Z would not idle.

When I got home and tried to start it took 5 kicks to start. This was a trike that previously (with new fuel pump) started on the first kick.

Last night I put some solvent in the spark plug hole to get it started and she ran rough but started.

Today I have tried and tried but she won't start. I replaced plugs, cleaned plugs and nothing.

I have done nothing to the trike expect put that new oil mixed at 50:1. I now probably have to clean the carb, piston, cylinder dome, etc.

Asked Tim but still waiting on a response.

My feeling today is that if its not broken don't fix it. I should have left the damn thing alone. :mad: :mad:

[ScottZJ]

Yeah the Blue Gargle didnt do nothing for me either. Said all sorts of things it would do and never saw anything and thats after 2 huge jugs of it. I did the same thing and tried it but wasnt worth the money. I should have just stayed with klotz. Oh and it never stopped smoking or barely smoked as they say it does and this was from 3 different trikes, so I know it wasnt just one trike.
Try it if you want but Im staying with what I know works.............peace

[Darius1502]

I was running 32:1 Bel Ray or Klotz or something.

All I can tell you is that my trike won't even start!! This thing would start after 1 kick even if cold and left for 2 weeks.

Now I have to figure out what the heck is wrong, drain all the gas out of the tank, and waste time that I don't have.

OH well it just goes to show you that sometimes its best to forget about perfection and just enjoy what you have.

Very, Very, Very Frustrated!!

ScottZJ: I tried it and thats why I have a trike that won't start...ridiculous!

[deathman53]

you get a NEW spark plug? I've learned that cleaning plugs doesn't work too well.

[Darius1502]

Thats next on the list...I'll waste time tomarrow and go to the Yamaha dealer. I have a business to run and other things to do. Trikes (despite my frequent postings) are not my life.

[md1985250r]

Dont be so hurried to blame the oil.......You went from 32:1 to 50:1 in an instant.............do you think your machine can adapt to that abrupt change?? I used blue marble at 50:1 in my r and have no complaints whatsoever.NO SMOKE EITHER!!


I cant wait to hear TIMSR on this one............

[ScottZJ]

What about me, I never change any ratio and used it in 3 different machines. And my tecate is far from being worn out so it should have worked the best for it. In my opinion it is not worth the money.

[Darius1502]

I would love to get Tim's help on this one. I have been waiting and trying my best.

I am not an expert...I just try to learn as I go.

I have never heard of a two stroke not starting because you leaned out the fuel to oil mixture from 32:1 to 50:1. Of course...I am not an expert.

TIM I bought from you and NEED your help!

[md1985250r]

All I'm saying is you have to give your machine a little time to adjust to such an abrupt change. I went from 32:1 to 50:1 gradually. Keep in mind that when you decrease the amount of oil in your gas you are increasing the temperature at which you are running...maybe that is what you are expierencing darius....I dont know and I do understand where you are coming from....but you really should pm tim and give him a chance to help you....good luck , GREG

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

I have also used the oil and honostly cannot see anything it has over the .50 cent wal-mart oil. My neigbor had a couple gallons of it, he gave me almost a full gallon for free,, and now I see why., LOL,, I usually ran Amsoil 50:1, and had it jetted to perfection, I first tried blue marbel at 50:1 with nothing but slow throttle responce and a terrible running engine, I tried richer, leaner, messing with the jets, I could never get that thing to run good, I finally got it to idle smoothly, but It was obvious the oil was robbing power, at the end of the gallon I finally gave up. put fresh gas in mixed with amsoil, and after awhile of riding to get the rest of the crap out of its system, it was back to how it should be. I do not believe that "it takes 2 gallons to clear out the system , etc, etc" I dont care how many websites and reviews you show me, first hand experience for me is that it is junk. Might as well throw some food coloring in a jug of milk and label it blue marbel, high performance 2 stroke oil.

My internal parts looked much cleaner and healthier when I tore it down after running amsoil for months and months, then when I tore them down after running blue marbel for a gallon.

Sure we will get a good sounding rebuttle with a little sarcasm saying its all the users fault, that it takes time to "clean" your system, But from my personal experience, and all the guys I know up here, You might as well be dumping moose piss in your gas tank.

[deathman53]

actually its the opposite TO A POINT, fuel cools alot more oil, so theoreticly when you lean out the oil, there is more gas, so it runs leaner and more gas means it runs cooler. Too little oil and is the opposite, it runs very hot, its a fine line. The oil is just there to lubrite the cylinder, crank, etc. Your problem proabably has alot to due with running very rich, due to the difference in jetting between running 32:1 and 50:!.

[lisnup65]

It is most likely not the oil, but rather a dirty carb that is the issue. I have been running Blue Marble for almost 32 years plus now and it is awesome!!! The smoke is heavy at first, but get the machines warm and the smoke is gone. I run this is 4 machines, plus my chain saws, weed whackers, etc and I never had 1 problem.

As far as problems with the said machine. All it takes is 1 small particle of dirt to plug or partially plug a carb and create the issues you are claiming.

[Billy Golightly]

After re-adjusting my carb for the difference in ratio change, I've had nothing but good luck in my trx250R and every other pinger on our property which consists also of my Tri-Z, 2 different chainsaws, my KDX200, the CR500, and the weedeater. To each their own I suppose.

[md1985250r]

actually its the opposite TO A POINT, fuel cools alot more oil, so theoreticly when you lean out the oil, there is more gas, so it runs leaner and more gas means it runs cooler. Too little oil and is the opposite, it runs very hot, its a fine line. The oil is just there to lubrite the cylinder, crank, etc. Your problem proabably has alot to due with running very rich, due to the difference in jetting between running 32:1 and 50:!.

sorry dude but you couldnt be more wrong........... Before we get into the different parts of the carburetor and how they effect gasoline delivery I want to stop for a second and define the terms RICHER and LEANER. I know these terms can cause some trouble for those who are new to the sport or new to carburetor tuning and they are often used incorrectly. The terms RICHER and LEANER refer to the amount of GASOLINE being delivered to the engine and not the amount of oil. If you’ve done a plug reading at wide open throttle and the plug indicates you are running rich ( dark brown to black ) this is an indication that too much gas is being delivered to the engine and not too much oil. I know there are people that will say "You’re running too rich, try to change your premix ration from 42 parts gas: 1 part oil ( 42:1 ) to 50 parts gas : 1 part oil, that should lean things out a little ". This is in fact increasing the amount of gasoline ( 8 more parts of gas for each part of oil ) and causing the engine to run RICHER rather than leaner. If you remember richer and leaner are referring to the amount of gasoline being delivered this will all make much more sense...........care to read the entire article I will email it to anyone who likes to learn and read!!!

[LonesomeTriZ]

sorry dude but you couldnt be more wrong........... Before we get into the different parts of the carburetor and how they effect gasoline delivery I want to stop for a second and define the terms RICHER and LEANER. I know these terms can cause some trouble for those who are new to the sport or new to carburetor tuning and they are often used incorrectly. The terms RICHER and LEANER refer to the amount of GASOLINE being delivered to the engine and not the amount of oil. If you’ve done a plug reading at wide open throttle and the plug indicates you are running rich ( dark brown to black ) this is an indication that too much gas is being delivered to the engine and not too much oil. I know there are people that will say "You’re running too rich, try to change your premix ration from 42 parts gas: 1 part oil ( 42:1 ) to 50 parts gas : 1 part oil, that should lean things out a little ". This is in fact increasing the amount of gasoline ( 8 more parts of gas for each part of oil ) and causing the engine to run RICHER rather than leaner. If you remember richer and leaner are referring to the amount of gasoline being delivered this will all make much more sense...........care to read the entire article I will email it to anyone who likes to learn and read!!!

Send that to me if you do not mind. lonesome00@hotmail.com

I would like to learn more about properly jetting and pre mixing.

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

After re-adjusting my carb for the difference in ratio change, I've had nothing but good luck in my trx250R and every other pinger on our property which consists also of my Tri-Z, 2 different chainsaws, my KDX200, the CR500, and the weedeater. To each their own I suppose.

You Know whats funny Bill? You say that cr500 wont crank on its own, and it doesnt have the power you expect, and that it doesnt have the power everyone says... Maybe the oil is your weak link.. Now that you mention your running that crud in it, I will put some money on that being one of the contributing factors. I thought you were running decent oil, that is why I never asked about that part when we were talking about it.

Be kinda funny if you changed your oil and mixture and it ran awesome eh? kind of a kick in the face of reality that the oil isnt all its talked up to be.

[deathman53]

I got the terms of richer and leaner mixed up, the less oil=more gas, more oil=less gas, so if you keep the same main jet and such and use 50:1 over 32:1 you are richening the mixture, use 32:1 and use the jets and such for 50:1 the bike will be leaner. When there is more gas in the mixture it runs cooler, less gas it runs hotter.

[Darius1502]

Alright...my intention was not to put down the product.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN: I am not here to put down Blue Marble or start a debate. At this point I could care less. I just want some help so that I can figure out what I need to do in order to get my Z just running again.

Thats all I ask. It may be great stuff, it may be crap...I don't have to time to tinker and figure that one out.

Just give me some help on getting my Z back to normal.

so I need to...
- clean the carb
- clean the top of the piston
- clean the dome
- change the spark plug
-etc. etc...

This thing has no life right now...

[lisnup65]

If the motor is not fresh, you may be getting serious carbon issues. Blue Marble attacked the build up something feirce in my 85 250R. The motor was not fresh and I would bog and foul plugs on the first tank. The machine was also a little harder to start come to think of it. I removed the head, just wiped out the loose carbon, reassembled and the machine has been happy ever since. On the Blue Marble site it states that it breaks up carbon deposits and rids them from the engine. If you have a lot of build up and its losening up, it could be the issue.

Just a thought.

[md1985250r]

Come to think of it......when I first started running blue marble, I fouled a few more plugs than normal, but after the first or second tank, I haven't fouled 1. Get a handful of new plugs Darius,give it a chance....let us know, GREG

[lisnup65]

Great article on BM oil.

http://www.envirofuelslp.com/PDF/Off-Road.com%20Jan-04.pdf

If you read the last paragraph on page 1, it explains how it attacks carbon build up in a not new motor. I cannot find the faqs now, but when I started on BM oil, they recommended you use a fuel system cleaner on the first tanks if the motor was not new. It helped attack and clean the deposits faster than BM can on its own. I dont remember exactly the stuff the recomended, but I beleive it was a STP all system cleaner in a silver bottle.
My 2003 Blaster has ran BM since new. I had 50 logged hours on it and tore the top end off as I figured it was a least ring time. To my amazement, it needed nothing besides the gasket that I destroyed. 50+ hours on a Blaster is a lot!!!!!!!

[Darius1502]

lisnup65:

Thanks man...I think that is exactly what is happening to my Z.

I think my head must be full of crap. I'll let you know Greg as well what happens.

I was pissed off earlier but I am going to stay cool and see what happens!

Thanks guys...

Still waiting on Tim....I am sure he has had this trouble too..so it will be good to hear from him.

[hrc85250r]

you guys make this stuff too complicated.....run what you are using...jeez, if it aint broke dont fix it. there wont be any crazy difference in using klotz or amsoil or "blue marble!" omfg.....just use what you are using and be done with it, if your motor lasts running 32:1 use it, you dont want to chance losing 30 hrs of a good top end trying to get 2 horses out of yur motor, run 32:1 with a decent oil run it a little rich, whatever...i wouldnt be screwing around with jets all the time just to use a special oil! its just dumb...wow.

[Dammit!]

Heheh, dude you probably just fouled a plug. 2-strokes will do that on occasion for no reason at all, let alone after you change your pre-mix. I won't even leave the house without at least 2 spares (even though it rarely happens, it always does it when you're least expecting it). My R will foul one pretty consistently when I wipe out. I think it does that out of spite though.

I'd also do a few plug chops after you get it going again. You very well might need to re-jet. Better safe than sorry.

[x.system]

This is BS, blaming the oil, come on, put the blame where it belongs, inexperience. Once a plug is fouled it is worthless, I don't care how you try to clean it. If you own a 2 stroke you should always have a few extra plugs handy, not cleaned plugs, but new plugs. You do any plug chops before with your old oil brand? You do any plug chops with the new mix? A 2 stroke is not a plug and play machine, you have to know how to make them perform. Todays oils mixed at 50 to1 is similar to the old days when it was 20 to 1, and at that mix I know its still fat. 50 to 1 is in the safe zone but I garantee its rich. I have messed around with amsoil at many different ratios, thats why I lean mine out to 100 to 1 and can jet it to perform at 100% of its potential. I don't use BM but I have a bottle of it here and have tried it, it works just as good as any other oil if not better, I use amsoil because I can get it locally and my dealer is about 3 blocks away. Your making this way to complicated, drop in a new plug and do some plug chops.

[Billy Golightly]

You Know whats funny Bill? You say that cr500 wont crank on its own, and it doesnt have the power you expect, and that it doesnt have the power everyone says... Maybe the oil is your weak link.. Now that you mention your running that crud in it, I will put some money on that being one of the contributing factors. I thought you were running decent oil, that is why I never asked about that part when we were talking about it.

Be kinda funny if you changed your oil and mixture and it ran awesome eh? kind of a kick in the face of reality that the oil isnt all its talked up to be.


Dude...the CR isn't anything but the carb. And maybe an electrical problem. Doesn't have anything to do with the oil or everything else on the place thats being ran from the same cans of gas would be doing it too.

[RideRed250R]

my 2 cents, * ran 32:1 with a different oil now * went 50:1 with another oil that has different propertys i say wat * did was not smoke the piston or blow up the top-end cause if ** gettin sluggish response * have it mixed to rich thats wat i have been told by a few people, so wat i say went wrong is * might have loaded it up, thats my think, also i back up th eguy who says abrupt change oils burn differently and i dont know who told * to go from 32:1 to 50;1 cause thats a pretty big switch i run all my bikes at 32:1 its a good mix and levels out to be wat 20;1 was back in the old days, first question how long has ** top-end been run? did * go from 50/50 to 100% sythetic? is ** top-end new?? cause if it is * never want to break it in with synthetic motor oil cause sometimes it prevents your rings from setting and * could be loosing compresion threw that. i would take the spark plug out tonight and wait till late tomorrow or even the day after so friday, then add just straight gas to ** tank and dependin on how far down it is fill it about 1/4 of wats left in the tank, stand on the bike and shake the hell out of it. then turn the gas on (o turn gas off when shaken) then turn it on and kick the heck out of it or shee if you can get ** neighbor tyo push * and slip the clutch. this will or should create enough friction to get it runnin and then later swap out the fuel. thats wat i would do. i hope * get her runnin soon.
adam

[RideRed250R]

also every motor reacts different to different oils i ran the yamah lube 2-R smoked alittle ran fine little sluggish i run the Honda Racing CR blend specially designed for the honda twostrokes and even for the 250R motor and it mixes 32:1 and runs fine its 100% sythetic but i always run 50/50 when breakin in a top-end witch you said your top-ends older so no worry there. honda even makes a carbon build up feul additive.
adam

[Darius1502]

Alright everyone take a deep breath. It will all be fine.

[ScottZJ]

Well I dont have any problems. I gave the oil a honest try and I wasnt impressed and that was on 3 different machines and 2 gallons later. Thats my opinion and I wont buy anymore. I know my cheaper oil was working fine with no probs so thats were I will stay............peace

[rustbucket]

I bet its low on compresion 50-1 is pretty lean. I had this happen in my trimoto i used some cheap oil some motox brand from the dollar store had rings hang up in the port and ruin it still had compression but not enough to start

[bigredhead]

if the throttle cable was replaced, the carb was exposed, my guess goes on grit in the carb !

there.

[Howdy]

I have been running Blue Marble in my golf cart since 2-3 weeks after I got it. I fouled 1 plug within a day ( the kids rode it all day ). Since changing to Blue Marble I have noticed it runs better, it seems to run cooler, and I have more power. I know it has more power because with the old crap it wouldn't pull start my 350x. Now it does with no problem. Could it have just been the plug causing the power difference? I doubt it.
Smoke? with the old mix it was a fogger. With Blue Marble ( 50:1 ) it just slightly smokes.

Bottom line is: To each their own. I will be using Blue Marble in my machines.
Howdy

[Jeb]

Darius, I hate to hear of your troubles with Blue Marble! I've been using it a while now and have had no problems.

I've noticed less smoke on my Tri-Z. I run 50:1 and 93 Octane pump gas. That's what I ran BelRay MC1 at also.

[wanta86r]

my 2 cents, * ran 32:1 with a different oil now * went 50:1 with another oil that has different propertys i say wat * did was not smoke the piston or blow up the top-end cause if ** gettin sluggish response * have it mixed to rich thats wat i have been told by a few people, so wat i say went wrong is * might have loaded it up, thats my think, also i back up th eguy who says abrupt change oils burn differently and i dont know who told * to go from 32:1 to 50;1 cause thats a pretty big switch i run all my bikes at 32:1 its a good mix and levels out to be wat 20;1 was back in the old days, first question how long has ** top-end been run? did * go from 50/50 to 100% sythetic? is ** top-end new?? cause if it is * never want to break it in with synthetic motor oil cause sometimes it prevents your rings from setting and * could be loosing compresion threw that. i would take the spark plug out tonight and wait till late tomorrow or even the day after so friday, then add just straight gas to ** tank and dependin on how far down it is fill it about 1/4 of wats left in the tank, stand on the bike and shake the hell out of it. then turn the gas on (o turn gas off when shaken) then turn it on and kick the heck out of it or shee if you can get ** neighbor tyo push * and slip the clutch. this will or should create enough friction to get it runnin and then later swap out the fuel. thats wat i would do. i hope * get her runnin soon.
adam
I cant read any of this. Take your time so i can understand what ther hell you are trying to say. Real sentences in the english language please!

[bigredhead]

for some odd reason the ords y o * and y o * r s are both blocked.. makes things weird.

[OldSchoolin86]

I cant read any of this. Take your time so i can understand what ther hell you are trying to say. Real sentences in the english language please!
It's a filter problem.

[Darius1502]

I honestly think that I fouled a plug. I am going to the Yammie dealer to get a handful. If I am in a good mood I'll give the blue marble a try once more...if I get mad...I drain that godforsaken oil out of the tank and put some bel ray in.

I'll keep everyone updated!

[crackshot]

Bel ray is the best. They know how to make oils and been around for years.
Is that blue nard oil synthetic?

[Mr. Sandman]

Darius, Sorry to hear of your troubles. I've been using Blue Marble in my R for the last year or so and have not experienced any problems.

Additionally, in the 20 years I've had my R, I've gone through a few different brands (PJ 1, Golden Spectro, Bel Ray, Red Line, Amsoil) and types of pre-mix oils and have never experienced a problem other than the occassional fouled plug. I've used the Honda recommended 20:1 mix with petroleum based oils to 100:1 with synthetics

It sounds like a coincidence that your problems started as soon as you switched and the problem is actually related to something else.

[RideRed250R]

I appologize if the you's and yours werent blocked * could read it. sorry
adam

[Howdy]

for some odd reason the ords y o * and y o * r s are both blocked.. makes things weird.

Actually only the words "You" and "Yours" isn't blocked. If you, your, and yours was spelled out properly they would be displayed properly. If you leave out the "yo" then they will be displayed as "*" or "**".

Why is it set like this? Because it's anyoying to try and read it when wrote short hand.

Howdy

[Mr. Sandman]

Actually only the words "You" and "Yours" isn't blocked. If you, your, and yours was spelled out properly they would be displayed properly. If you leave out the "yo" then they will be displayed as "*" or "**".

Why is it set like this? Because it's anyoying to try and read it when wrote short hand.

Howdy
So it's basically a filter to weed out the "don't type like an idiot" folks. I like it!

[Howdy]

So it's basically a filter to weed out the "don't type like an idiot" folks. I like it!

This is Exactly why it was put into place. As HondaATC put it: For the Love of God, Don't type like a idiot!!.

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=9639

Howdy

[crackshot]

synthetic 2 stroke oil is crap period.
If you like hard starting, fouled plugs, by all means use it. I wont ever run that sh!t again.

[Darius1502]

Mr. Sandman,

I don't think it was a coincidence. The blue marble made my plugs foul. We will see as I will go get some new plugs today.

[hrc85250r]

oil is oil...i have used a crapload of different oils(pennzoil marine, klotz s-t, amsoil, etc...) in my R and i have never fouled a plug riding, i always mix 20:1 or 32:1 and i have NEVER fouled a plug riding....once in a while i would foul one starting, but just because i was being stupid.... if you foul plugs riding, there is something else going on other than oil to gas ratio....

[OldSchoolin86]

Why is it set like this? Because it's anyoying to try and read it when wrote short hand.To be honest I think it's more anyoying seeing * and ** all over the boards.

[twgranger]

To be honest I think it's more anyoying seeing * and ** all over the boards.
I agree. Atleast before i could read what they were trying to say. :rolleyes: How in earth can you try and read*****************************************??? :confused:

[Darius1502]

I put in a new plug and gravity fed fresh 93 Octane gas mixed with Bel Ray at 32:1 and she still won't start.

Last night, I took off the head and cleaned the piston dome, cleaned the carb, checked the reeds.

I have spark and gas but nothing. This trike was starting with 1 kick on Monday. Now nothing.

If I put gas down the spark plug hole and try to start....nothing! Its unbelievable...

I am totally pissed!!

[twgranger]

I put in a new plug and gravity fed fresh 93 Octane gas mixed with Bel Ray at 32:1 and she still won't start.

Last night, I took off the head and cleaned the piston dome, cleaned the carb, checked the reeds.

I have spark and gas but nothing. This trike was starting with 1 kick on Monday. Now nothing.

If I put gas down the spark plug hole and try to start....nothing! Its unbelievable...

I am totally pissed!!
I know how you can solve all your problems!! Just sell it to me. :naughty:

[Darius1502]

Oh hush!!

I am too pissed right now!

[TimSr]

If you think you can just dump Blue Marble or anything else in your gas tank and it will suddenly turn into a rocket (like some people think race gas will do) you will be seriously disappointed with the stuff. Any time you change your mix, you can expect to have to set up for it. Oils all burn at differnet rates, and ratios also change burn rate. Blue Marble doesnt burn off as fast as many other oils, (which is why less of it does the same job) and often times a switch to it makes machines run richer. The closest thing to it out there for carburetion is Maxima oils. If you switch from a Maxima 50:1 mix, you probably wont have to change much at all. If you switch from most others, you will.

I switched from BelRay MC1, a super good oil, that I ran for many, many years. About 20 minutes after switching in my TriZ I saw noticeable low end power improvement, and increased idle speed (which hadnt been adjusted in years). I also fouled a plug. I ran it another hour or so to stabilize the system. Though I had more low end power it was loading up in the, low to mid range and when running wide open, the plug was oily and gray. This stuff is tricky for plug readings because is doesnt turn black on the plug like most oils, but gives it a lighter color and a wet oily look when its rich. I started dropping main jet sizes, and it kept improving. I went from stock jetting, which was untouched for all the years I ran it with MC1, of 470 or 490 cant remember which, and ended with 420. With it setup right, the performance gains on the bottom end are huge, I get a lot farther on a tank of gas, and it smokes very little, less then the 4 strokes at the race track. Top end improvement is hard to tell on a two stroke, so Ill leave a question mark for that one. I did end up repacking the oil saturated silencer to get rid of the rest of the smoke.

The Quad-Z was jetted with a 520 jet in the stock carb "for racing" running Yamalube at 32:1 when I got it. It ran like crap then, and I knew it was rich because he apparently did "message board jetting" which is you increase the main jet everytime you add a racing sticker. I switched to my mix before even touching the carb. It started running better after about 10 minutes, but was still fouling plugs, like it did before. I started dropping jet sizes until I ended up at 420 with it as well. If you can ride it and seriously tell me it runs like crap, Ill drink a gallon of BM! My equipment runs good, not because of some secret magic modification or additive, but because I know how to set it up.

My TRX250R saw the least difference in carburetion. I ended up dropping to a 140 from a 145 or 150 on the stock carb.

TimJrs E-Ton 70 stayed the same, but ran noticeably better, and you couldnt even see the smoke with the throttle wide open when it was warm. His E-Ton 90 I setup around BM so there is no camparison, but no visible smoke from it either.

1. When setting up with Blue Marble, do not run with more oil than 50:1 for starters. Youll just end up with a crank full of unburned oil.

2. When you make the switch, get at least a half hour of run time, preferably about an hour allowing chamber to stabilize and normalize, before making any carb changes. Plan on fouling a plug or two. If you are putting on a new top end, coat the cylinder with BM, and heat it up to 100-150 degrees, and leave it sit a for a few hours before installing it. It speeds up the bonding process.

3. After running it through the bonding process put in a clean plug, and run it the way you will normally run it for a while. Pull the plug an look at it, keeping in mind rich condition is not as noticeable. Be alert to it loading up easily, and loss of clean throttle response. My experience shows that this stuff tends to run a lot richer than most other oils, so there is a good chance youll need to start dropping main jet sizes, depending on what you were running previously. Check your plug frequently so you are in tune with your chamber conditions and how your fuel is burning.

I bawk at a lot of modifications because Ive seen very few people who run a stock machine to its full potential. Problem is very few people seem to able to setup a stock machine to run at its full potential. My stuff runs good, and when its doesnt, I know why, and how to correct it. As much I a like and respect MC1, Blue Marble is a superior product, hands down. If a machine is running poorly with it, it needs some basic setup work. Ultimately, everything I put Blue Marble in ran noticeably better, but it didnt happen just by dumping it in. Its great stuff, but youve got to set it up right which varies from nothing to seevral jet sizes, depending on what you ran before.

[Darius1502]

Sounds good Tim...but this trike won't even start now.

I did the following:

I put in a new plug and gravity fed fresh 93 Octane gas mixed with Bel Ray at 32:1 and she still won't start.

Last night, I took off the head and cleaned the piston dome, cleaned the carb, checked the reeds.

I have spark and gas but nothing. This trike was starting with 1 kick on Monday. Now nothing.

If I put gas down the spark plug hole and try to start....nothing! Its unbelievable...

[Darius1502]

If I do have a crank with unburned oil or something else for that matter would that keep the trike from starting?

Nothing has changed on this thing since Monday. The only addition was blue marble.

I some ideas here.....

I am past the blue marble deal now...I put regular Bel Ray at 32:1 in it and still nothing. I put a couple drops down the spark plug hole...nothing!

How can carb affect how the trike runs if it won't even run for a second with gas down the cylinder...

I have spark...new plugs...everything...

[TimSr]

I put in a new plug and gravity fed fresh 93 Octane gas mixed with Bel Ray at 32:1 and she still won't start.

Last night, I took off the head and cleaned the piston dome, cleaned the carb, checked the reeds.

I have spark and gas but nothing. This trike was starting with 1 kick on Monday. Now nothing.

If I put gas down the spark plug hole and try to start....nothing! Its unbelievable...

I am totally pissed!!

I would start by taking off the exhaust pipe, and taking out the plug, and letting it sit a day or two to dry out. Ive got a feeling your crank is about half full of gasoline. It probably started with a simple fouled plug, and ended up a flooded crank with the WD40 and gasoline in it. Then if it doesnt want to start, get somebody to pull you and throw it in gear. It will fire up, blow gas oil and all kinds of goo out the pipe, but after running it a few minutes, it will burn and dry it out and be back to normal.

[lisnup65]

^ Amen!!!!!

[Darius1502]

Thats what I am thinking too. My thought was the same. I am waiting until my wife gets home to find out.

We will see!!

[TimSr]

Its not a carb problem thats keeping you from starting, but it is probably carb tuning that will take care of what sounds like the same loading up I experienced, from a rich condition.

I once worked on mine, and test drove, parked it in the garage, and next day could not start it. When I took the pipe off, about a quart of gas pured out the pipe on my shoes. I left it sit with the gas on, and somehow, it managed to siphon back a whole bunch of gas overnight, through fuel pump and all. I had to go through the above procedure.

[Darius1502]

Tim, when I took my pipe off last night a bunch of gas, ,starter fluid and crap fell out all over the floor as well.

I'll pull start it and let everyone know. Thanks!!

[YAMAHA_Jim]

Its topics like this that make for great conversation and debate @ TF. I run Maxima SuperM,Castor 927,or formula K2 at 40:1 in all my 2 strokes.Havent had any problems in the last 15 yrs.I ran Klotz supertechniplate for awhile too and didnt have any problems with that either. Man I love the smell of that stuff. I will say that there is a difference between "race" gas and pump gas.Most of the weekend warrior riders wont notice the differnce though b/c like Tim said,it needs to be setup right.Running race fuel in a stock engine is useless anyways.Most of the time it will run worse.
I have nothing against Blue Marble,but right now I have no reason to try it.All my toys run in tip top shape.I see no point in messing with my carb just to run different 2 stroke oil.

[Darius1502]

It took a long time but she started. Now I just need to let her run.

Thanks guys!!

[Howard]

Ha, are ya gonna run the blue Garbage again or what? or go with some better oil that you know and trust.

[TimSr]

Ha, are ya gonna run the blue Garbage again or what? or go with some better oil that you know and trust.

Have you ever used it or is this in retaliation for my outing you for being busted by ebay for shill bidding in this thread? - http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=33153&page=3&pp=15

[Lots_Of_Nothing]

Have you ever used it or is this in retaliation for my outing you for being busted by ebay for shill bidding in this thread? - http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=33153&page=3&pp=15

Owned twice in one night.. Your on a roll Howard

Now where is Dammit! with that picture..lmfao

[Dammit!]

Have you ever used it or is this in retaliation for my outing you for being busted by ebay for shill bidding in this thread? - http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=33153&page=3&pp=15

http://laser2.legs-world.co.uk/images/owned-tank.jpg

[Howard]

yes i have tried it. bought it at last years trike fest. no retaliation needed. i didn't care for the oil either. i didn't notice any changes. so yes i have bought some.

[Darius1502]

The Z is still running like crap. Believe me all this started when I put the oil in. I know there could be another cause...but let me say this...it sure is one hell of a coincidence!

Thats all I am going to say....now I have to figure out how to get the Z back to what it was.

I don't blame blue marble...but I think I can say that something happened on the first ride with the new oil. I don't know if it was related to the oil or not. Once I put Bel Ray back in the trike it still runs like crap.

Here is what it does:

Won't idle
Smokes excessively
Very hard to start or won't start at all (yes its getting tons of fuel)

I just need time to mess with it....I don't have time now!

[Dammit!]

Have you really run it hard since this started? Could just be excess oil that needs to get burned out.

[Darius1502]

No Dammit...I have not had the time. I don't know where the excess oil is hiding since I checked the top end.

Sometime this week, I'll head out to the county and run for as long as I can (6 - 7 hours). I would like to get through 2 tanks of gas and then check my idle and pilot jet.

Well see then!

[Dammit!]

It gets down below there by the crank. If you were trying to start it for a while I guarantee it got a lot of fuel down there. The fuel evaporates but the oil doesn't. That's why you always see a lot more smoke right after flooding the engine.

[TimSr]

Gas doesnt evaporate from the crank very well either. That was why I suggested taking the pipe off, and the plug out for a couple days, but at this point it needs to be brought up to operating temperature, and run about half an hour.

I can pretty well guess what happened here. You probably fouled a plug, misdiagnosed it, and started putting gas and WD40 in your top end to try to fix it, and ended up filling your crank half full of fuel, as well as the fuel in your pipe. It doesnt matter what fuel mix you use, none of them cause your top end to fill up with fuel. Anytime you bike quits running, a new clean plug should be the first thing that gets done, especially on a two stroke. Had you filled your tank with a 20:1 chainsaw mix it would not have caused the problems you experienced. I have never ever heard of a gas oil mix directly causing a bike not to start, even at 16:1. It may foul a plug, which causes it to not start, but the gas/oil mix wont cause it. Apparently some guys run Blue Marble and dont see any benefits, or do any followup setup, and thats fine, but its a stretch to say it caused all these problems. It caused you to foul a plug. Pretty much everything after that was mechanic's errors in taking care of that problem. Had you simply pulled the plug when it first would not start, and replaced it with a clean one, youd be riding now. The only time you should ever put gas in the head is when its not getting any fuel or needs a prime, but those problems are not caused by a gas/oil mix either. Starting fluid wont puddle up and flood out everything.

If the oil is so poor, why does it work so well in my Tri-Z's? Why dont mine run like crap? If you make Trikefest, you're welcome to testdrive any of my stuff, and you can be the judge. This invitation applies to anyone.

[hrc200x]

One solution I've found when a 2 stroke crankcase fills up with fuel is to put it in gear and push it around the yard with the spark plug out, most of the gas will come out the hole. This makes a mess and could cause a major fire since you probably have the spark plug or the open spark plug cap somewhere close by the hole all the gas is comming out. So make sure you have the kill switch off and there is no sparks comming from anwhere else. It could be possible to make some sort of fitting for the plug hole and run a rubber hose off it down by the ground to give the gas an excape route and contain the mess/reduse fire hazard.

[jenndnn3]

My question is pretty simple. If your trike 2stroke is running persay pretty much perfect, would you change? Then followup with why. Thx