Ugh!! Electrical problems!!! Help......!!

[nouseforaname90]

Ok. So. As many of you probably know, I am putting a 350X headlight on my SX and having difficulties. Well while I was out there trying to wire it up, I accidentally touched two of the wires together, and the lights on the dash went off. Nothing works now. What did I do?? Did I just blow a fuse? Or do I need to like replace the whole wiring harness or something?? Please give me good news because I have NOTHING more to spend on this SX project!!!

[freewheel3]

Probably blew a fuse would be my guess, although I couldn't tell you where it is off the top of my head. I see in your other thread you mention connecting other wires to the common ground (green). Don't do that unless they are ground wires, otherwise, instant short & you are now a welder (bet you didn't know you could weld, even if it was only for a millisecond or two)
My SX came with a 200x socket in the uninstalled headlight. Had to cut the plugs off of both ends (OMG!!!) & wire it in with insulated spade connectors. All 3 colors matched up. White, blue & green.
In the future, disconnect the battery when playing with the wiring. Yeah I know its a pain, but where are you now?
Even without lights I think you have the nicest SX dash to ever "grace gods good earth" (wink,wink)

[slothminx]

on the sx/es there is a 15 amp fuse in a case by the battery i would guess that this is the one that has blown. have a look on the es it is mounted by the battery and i think on the case it has fuse written on it;) take a look at this and if its burns out you can get some household fuse wire in there but that shouldnt be permanent.

[bigredhead]

If you shorted the wires for just a few seconds.. the fuse would go before anything else.. Did it smoke and smell really really bad ? or just spark and then nothing ? ( it should have just sparked and blown the fuse.)

Sometimes.. stupid people will fill the fuse cavity with metal ie: foil .. but this is a BAD idea.. the fuse had a job.. and a purpose.. to burn up and short before your wires do.


Look for a rubber boot with red wires comming out from it.. close to the battery. mine is located at the back of the machine zip tied to the frame ( got relocated at some point ) ..

[bigredhead]

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC250SXx85.jpg

Edit : to remove my own post.. this made no sense.. refer to bottom reply

[bigredhead]

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC350Xx85Thru86.jpg

looking at this ... does the 350x headlight have 6 wires comming out of it ? if it does.. combine the similar colours from the headlight. and then use the 3 strands to the bike.....

better yet.. post a picture of the wires themselves on both headlight and bike i'll figure it out for ya !

[nouseforaname90]

I'll get back to the wiring as soon as I figure out my problem. I looked at the fuse earlier, and it didn't look blown. When I touched them together, all the lights on the bike went out. There was no sound.. they all just instantly went out. Is this the fuse?? Where would I pick up another fuse at? Is there only one fuse on this bike and it is the one by the battery?? I got my gas tank back today and It is now ont he bike and I fired it up with the kick starter. When it is running, the lights on the dash and headlight/taillight work just fine.. but when I just turn the key, nothing works. It has to be running for anything to work. Diagnosis?

[Tri-ZNate]

So you didnt get a chance to check the wiring I told you huh?
as for a diagnosis I think you shorted your battery and its dead now.

[bigredhead]

Just touching the wires on the headlight won't short your battery that quickly.. you have to short it out for a good 20 or more seconds and it would smoke like crazy and the wire insulation would have melted in a few places..

If the lights work when the motor is running. then the bulbs and wires are fine.. If you have a multimeter... put it on Ohms ( the horsehoe symbol ) and check your fuse.. if it reads something it's fine.. if it don't then the fuse is blown. You can also check the fuse with a lightbult and a few wires.. .. ..

Put the original light back on the SX and test everyting out ..

[nouseforaname90]

I did everything except put the original light back on the SX. Even teh taillight doesn't work unless the motor is running. I either killed the battery, or shorted the fuse. Would the fuse look blown if I had blown it?? Anyway. Where would I get a new fuse?? Just any fuse that is the same size/rating?

And on a happier note, I just test rode the SX. Everything is ready except the headlight and taillight.. well of course aside from the electrical problem. The taillight should be getting put on tomorrow or Saturday, and the headlight will be put on as soon as we figure out this electrical problem. And I hope we can figure it out fast!! I'm itching to finish this thing up.

And also, my tank got back from paint this morning. It looks GREAT. I'll post some pics of the tank in a few minutes, and if you guys would like I will post a few of the SX done. Although I don't want to post many becaue I want it to be FULLY done when I show you guys what she's made of.

The SuperTrapp is awesome and I would highly recommend it. I notice a tiny loss in power, but it is made up for in speed. The loss in horsepower is nothing. The throttle seems more responsive for some reason as well. I love this SuperTrapp, and I would highly recommend it to ANYONE. You guys know what those loud-ass Harleys sound like going down the road? Well that is what this thing sounds like, only on a slightly smaller scale. It is crazy loud with 12 discs.

Oh and btw 250sxwheeliepop.. yes I did get a chance to try out your wiring pattern. It didn't work. Unless the bike has to be on for the low beam to work, it didn't work. I screwed up the electrical stuff when I was trying my own combinations. (I had written down every possible combo of wiring, and was doing it by process of elimination.)

[Tri-ZNate]

and if you guys would like I will post a few of the SX done.


If you dont post pics i'll kick your ass. I mostly want to see that supertrapp.

[nouseforaname90]

Well there is a pic of the SuperTrapp in my sig! lol. I'll post them in a minute. I just got done eating.

[nouseforaname90]

http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/0978 (15)-379445.jpg (http://www.supload.com/free/0978 (15)-379445.jpg/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/0978 (16)-675676.jpg (http://www.supload.com/free/0978 (16)-675676.jpg/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/MVC-018S-968565.jpg (http://www.supload.com/free/MVC-018S-968565.jpg/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/MVC-020S-854942.jpg (http://www.supload.com/free/MVC-020S-854942.jpg/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/MVC-022S.JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/MVC-022S.JPG/view/)


Ok. There you go. There are some of the SuperTrapp. The ones of the bike right now are still loading.

[nouseforaname90]

Here are some more pics:

Here is the tank after wet sanding:
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (23).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (23).JPG/view/)
We had to wetsand the tank because it had a few bumps and stuff in it, and my painter (actually neighbor) didn't like it, and he wanted it perfect. So we wet sanded it with 2000 grit sandpaper for about an hour.
Here is Kaz buffing the tank with 3M Perfect It-II:
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (24).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (24).JPG/view/)
Here is the tank when he got the one side almost done:
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (25).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (25).JPG/view/)
Finished product:
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (27).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (27).JPG/view/)
The tank after I put the decals fron Harlan on and put it on the bike:
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (1).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (1).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (2).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (2).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (3).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2
(3).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (30).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (30).JPG/view/)

[nouseforaname90]

Pictures of the SX with the new tank. And new headlight (Thanks Travis!!!!)! And new PRM grabbar!! haha:
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (10).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (10).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (11).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (11).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (13).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (13).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (17).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (17).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (5).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (5).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (6).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (6).JPG/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (7).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (7).JPG/view/)

The headlight shell and front fender are fine, but the rear fender looks like **** on this bike right now. I am getting new ones for Christmas, so I'm not worried about it.. but it looks really bad on the bike at the moment.

[Tri-ZNate]

The black rims just dont look right on it. Go get some chrome spray paint :lol: Other than that it looks awesome.

[nouseforaname90]

They aren't black. They're dark gray. They were SUPPOSED to be light gray, but I ran out of paint doing the 2nd rim, and it was a discontinued color. So I went and got a similar color according to cap color, and it was that dark!!! I'm not taking them off again to repaint them. I'll wait for that paint to chip off, and then I am getting them powdercoated. Screw this spray paint crap. lol

[nouseforaname90]

Please help :). I want to get out tomorrow and get the parts to fix this SOB. Such a pain in the butt. lol.

[Tri-ZNate]

yes another fuse of equal amperage wil work. but take the trike fuse to wherever to make sure you get the right one.

[nouseforaname90]

Napa would have fuses, right?? Lol.. I've never had to buy a fuse :( haha.

[Tri-ZNate]

Napa should.

[nouseforaname90]

****!! I was just out there showing it to my dad seeing if he knew what was wrong. He said the fuse isn't blown, and I didn't think so either. A few questions:
1) Even if it is blown, could it look like it isn't?
2) Is that the only fuse on the bike??
3) If the fuse isn't blown.. what is wrong???
I tried it with a new battery from my dads Big Red, and it still didn't work. So its definately not the battery. I'm so aggrivated with myself. Not much has seemed to go right the first time on this project. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Ok. Another question. Would only the hi or low beam work when the bike is off? Because I have been testing these wiring combinations with the bike off and not running. I didn't think it would matter.. but I got to thinking about thought that it might do something. I don't know. I just know I want this headlight to WORK!

[thedeatons]

Dude... No offense, but you need a multimeter! Sears sells them for freakin $9.99, go pick one up. You'll be able to check the output voltage and narrow down which wires give off voltage for the light in which position, and you'll also be able to check the fuses to see if they're good using the resistance setting. I can give you more info on what to look for in a good cheap meter, let me know if you need help. THE METER WILL BE YOUR NUMBER ONE TROUBLESHOOTING SOURCE! James

[nouseforaname90]

I know. But thats the problem. I've dumped so much into this SX project, that I have almost nothing left. And if I were to splurge and get a multi meter, what kind of output would each give off? I'm not even sure that the high/low would be different amperages or w/e. Its two differnet filaments.. not two different electrical outputs. I'm not sure. Ugh. I'll either borrow or get a multimeter.
But thats not really my problem at this point. The problem is WTF is wrong with the electrical system that it don't even work.

[freewheel3]

If the fuse is blown you should be able to see it in the center of the glass portion although once every million years or so they will burn out near the end under the metal portion where you can't see it.
If you don't have a spare fuse (dad's ES) take a piece of wire about 6" long, bare both ends, remove your fuse, turn your key on, turn your lights on & insert one end of the wire in each end of the fuse holder for only a second or two & see if the lights work. But ONLY for a second or two. If this works then it was the fuse, if not, then it wasn't.
Other than that it is time to recheck all connections. Unplug & reconnect all connections one at a time so you don't get anything mixed up. Check all ground connections as well.
You might have created an arc when things shorted out & it isn't connecting well there.
Not sure if there is another fuse in the system or not.

[trikes4life]

just replace the fuse just in case there like 5 dollars for a chase of 20.

[nouseforaname90]

If you don't have a spare fuse (dad's ES)

You might have created an arc when things shorted out & it isn't connecting well there.

Ooo. I never thought of that. Now we are talking. Where is the fuse on the ES? I haven't worked on them much, so I don't know. I went out and looked, and didn't see it.
What do you mean by the arc thing? How would it make it so it doesn't connect?

And one more stupid question: could touching these two wires together have shorted out the whole system/ruined most of the wiring harness? My dad said that since they touched, I probably shorted/ruined most of the electrical system. I think he is full of B.S.. but I'm just double checking on this.

[Tri-ZNate]

I THINK THERE IS ANOTHER FUSE!!! I just remembered it is toward the rear on the left side. Get me a pic and i'll point it out.

[nouseforaname90]

Sweet ass. Now that is what I'm talking about :).

What pic do you need? A pic of the left side of the bike, or the rear?

EDIT: Here. I'll let you take your pick:

http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/123423 (9)-852907.jpg (http://www.supload.com/free/123423 (9)-852907.jpg/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/DSCN2796-561740.jpg (http://www.supload.com/free/DSCN2796-561740.jpg/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/DSCN2221-316335.jpg (http://www.supload.com/free/DSCN2221-316335.jpg/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/DSCN2915-237136.jpg (http://www.supload.com/free/DSCN2915-237136.jpg/view/)
http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/ZTAnk2 (20).JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/ZTAnk2 (20).JPG/view/)

[Tri-ZNate]

the left side toward the rear. there is a bunch of electrical componets. Or you can wait till saturday :D

FYI i dont want a pic of the fuse thats next to the battery either.

[nouseforaname90]

Why can I wait till Saturday? lol
And I just noticed that green thing. Is that it? I don't think so.. I think it sjust a connector.. but..
Oh yeah. And I gave you 5 pics to choose from. If you can't find it in those pics, I can look through my 200 some pics on this restoration and see if I have any of that area.

[Tri-ZNate]

I finally found a diagram thats worth a damn and confirmined there isnt anoter fuse. Give me a sec and Ill try to figure out something.

[freewheel3]

Ooo. I never thought of that. Now we are talking. Where is the fuse on the ES? I haven't worked on them much, so I don't know. I went out and looked, and didn't see it.
What do you mean by the arc thing? How would it make it so it doesn't connect?

And one more stupid question: could touching these two wires together have shorted out the whole system/ruined most of the wiring harness? My dad said that since they touched, I probably shorted/ruined most of the electrical system. I think he is full of B.S.. but I'm just double checking on this.
I don't have an ES so I can't tell you for sure, but probably near the battery & on the left side.
The arc thing might have gave you a weak or "dirty" connection, when you have the bike running there is more amps/voltage available than when it is shut off.
I doubt you cooked the harness or electrical system if it was only a momentary short but it is a possibility.

[nouseforaname90]

I just looked at the ES's wiring diagram and it says that the fuse on it is 10 amps, and bigredhead said that the 250's is a 15 amp fuse. So I guess that won't work.
Well there are NO amps/volatage available when it is shut off.. so I don't know. I'm relying on you guys to help me. I know nearly nothing about electronics unless it is finding the right wires to hook up. And even then I obviously can't do it.. judging from the whole headlight wiring thing.

[bigredhead]

Follow the Positive wire from the battery.. there should be a rubber boot with a fuse.. i think it even says " FUSE " on it.

If you fried the wiring harness it would have needed to get hot enough to melt stuff.. the electrical components however would have been damaged..

Check in the area with the wires to make sure you did'nt just yank a wire by accident while trying combinations...

Take a close up picture of the 350x wires behind the light and another one of the SX forks with wires...

[bigredhead]

I don't recall saying anything about a 15 amp fuse..

But on that subject.. 2 bulbs vs 1 bulb will create a different requirement on the electrical system..... how many watts are those bulbs in the X light ?

[nouseforaname90]

So since the electrical components would have been damaged, you are saying that the coil and all of that stuff would have been damaged, and the bike wouldn't run, or what?
And I'm positive I didn't yank a wire while trying combinations. I wasn't pulling on any of the wires. I had the headlight sitting on the front fender while I was messing with anything.. and then I touched them and everything went out.
I'll go outside right now and take a few pics of it. Give me a little bit. In the meantime, think of what in the blue hell I could have done. lol

Oh. Sorry bigredhead. I don't know why I thought you said that. Actually, noone said anything about a 15 amp fuse. Nevermind. Sorry.

[Tri-ZNate]

well after some researching I'd say check your pulse generator. I was told when i first got my SX that if the wires come loose on it or I short it and I cant start it then that might be the cause. its next to the alternator on the wiring diagram. (this is the piece i think is toward the back)

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC250SXx85.jpg

[nouseforaname90]

bigred head.. I only have one working light at the moment until I get the other from Bruce. So I was only hooking up and testing one of the lights for now, so I don't think that is an issue.

And 250sx.. if I messed up the pulse generator, doesn't that mean the lights on the bike wouldn't even work? When I kick start it and it fires up, all the lights on the bike work, they're just dimmer than usual. This means that the pulse generator is working, just not as good as it would with the battery backing it up, right?

[Tri-ZNate]

bigred head.. I only have one working light at the moment until I get the other from Bruce. So I was only hooking up and testing one of the lights for now, so I don't think that is an issue.

And 250sx.. if I messed up the pulse generator, doesn't that mean the lights on the bike wouldn't even work? When I kick start it and it fires up, all the lights on the bike work, they're just dimmer than usual. This means that the pulse generator is working, just not as good as it would with the battery backing it up, right?


hmmm. Yep you ****** it up congrads. Maybe it will be christmas before it runs :lol:

[Tri-ZNate]

Get a pic of the fuse and we will settle this.

[bigredhead]

pictures comming up.. hold on.

my fuse is hooked up to the battery box..

[bigredhead]

Here.. it does say FUSE on it.

and this is how you check them.

[thedeatons]

Alright, just so we know each other's backgrounds, I'm an Electronics Technician, taught in the Navy through two years of school, and have another eight years of experience since then... This is not to gloat by any means guys, I just wanted you to know that I understand the theory, and that I'm not full of crap.... That being said, a multimeter is $10, if not cheaper, or you can borrow one for free. By using the meter you could tell if you are getting voltage to the headlight. This is how:
With the headlight switch to "low" and the bike on (so the headlight should be working) hold the black lead of the meter to the common (ground wire) in the headlight assembly. Then touch the red lead of the meter to one of the other two wires. When you find the wire combination that reads ~6-12 Volts (depending on what your battery output is rated at) then you know you have found the two wires that connect to the low beam filament. Then use the same testing method while the headlight switch is in the "high" position. The leftover wire and "common" combination should read voltage when in this position. This will connect to the high beam filament. I do not know the voltage level you will see, but it will be a DC level (DC is direct current as in car batteries, AC is alternating current, as in 120V house outlet voltage). If your battery is a 6 Volt battery, then you will not see more than 6 Volts to the headlight leads. Consequently if the battery is a 12 Volt battery, you will not see more than 12 Volts to the headlight leads.
If you have a fuse in the headlight circuit, and you touched the common lead to either the "high" or "low" headlight lead, it would have blown the fuse. If you do not have a fuse or the fuse was bypassed, then you most likely shorted the battery out, and will need a new one.
I'd be more than happy to answer any of your electrical/electronic questions if you need some more help. Like I mentioned before, I can also help with the meter if you get one or borrow one, and can walk you through the troubleshooting process over the phone if needed. Hope this helps you, James

[bigredhead]

And as a matter of face.. i do have a 15 Amp fuse in it.

a 10 or a 15.. both should " work " but in the event of a bad connection. or running high wattage lights a 10 amp will before a 15 amp fuse.

Volts x Amps = Watts.

so 12v ( your battery ) times 10 amps ( your fuse ) means 120w before it blows the fuse out.. 120 is ALOT.. you could run your 2 x 35w 350X lights. plus your rear light 20 or so.. dash lights 5 each.. etc.. you are getting close..... add on some bad connections wich heat up the circuit and i think you should put in a 15..

[bigredhead]

Don't panic.. if the lights work with the bike running.. your electricals are ok.. i'm pretty confident it's a connection or a combination of things.

if you only have 1 of the 2 bulbs on that X headlight .. it could be the reason you are having problems getting both high and low to work.... is that what said... that you only had 1 of the 2 bulbs ?

[nouseforaname90]

Omg guys. I feel so stupid and bad for wasting your time on this. It was the fuse that was blown after all. I checked in the fuse thing, and the fuse was there in a little hole, and I was like "hmm.. how does that work?!?! oh well. Honda knows what they are doing. it looks good". Well after getting to look at it, I decided to try what you recommended, and use one from my dads ES to check it. Well it wasn't until I looked at my dads that I knew my mistake. The fuse is inside the white container. It just so happens that I was looking at the spare fuse. Ugh! I'm so sorry for wasting your time. It works now. Now I just need to figure the headlight out.
Oh and btw. I guess I blew the fuse good. The metal end cap on the right was blown off from the rest of it.

[nouseforaname90]

Alright, just so we know each other's backgrounds, I'm an Electronics Technician, taught in the Navy through two years of school, and have another eight years of experience since then... This is not to gloat by any means guys, I just wanted you to know that I understand the theory, and that I'm not full of crap.... That being said, a multimeter is $10, if not cheaper, or you can borrow one for free. By using the meter you could tell if you are getting voltage to the headlight. This is how:
With the headlight switch to "low" and the bike on (so the headlight should be working) hold the black lead of the meter to the common (ground wire) in the headlight assembly. Then touch the red lead of the meter to one of the other two wires. When you find the wire combination that reads ~6-12 Volts (depending on what your battery output is rated at) then you know you have found the two wires that connect to the low beam filament. Then use the same testing method while the headlight switch is in the "high" position. The leftover wire and "common" combination should read voltage when in this position. This will connect to the high beam filament. I do not know the voltage level you will see, but it will be a DC level (DC is direct current as in car batteries, AC is alternating current, as in 120V house outlet voltage). If your battery is a 6 Volt battery, then you will not see more than 6 Volts to the headlight leads. Consequently if the battery is a 12 Volt battery, you will not see more than 12 Volts to the headlight leads.
If you have a fuse in the headlight circuit, and you touched the common lead to either the "high" or "low" headlight lead, it would have blown the fuse. If you do not have a fuse or the fuse was bypassed, then you most likely shorted the battery out, and will need a new one.
I'd be more than happy to answer any of your electrical/electronic questions if you need some more help. Like I mentioned before, I can also help with the meter if you get one or borrow one, and can walk you through the troubleshooting process over the phone if needed. Hope this helps you, James

Can you tell me which is the common?? You say to touch it to the common.. but thats the problem. We don't know which is the common and what not. I'll try doing all this again tomorrow.. but I don't know what is going on. I've probly tried nearly every combination of wires.

[bigredhead]

The 350 light has 2 bulbs in series, if one is missing.. = problem.

Take one from the SX and the other working one.. and but both on the X assembly and try the wiring again...

Did you look at the picture i posted !! 2 FUSES !!!!! 1 SPARE and one in it !!

[bigredhead]

Re-read my earlier replies.. i told you wich were High Low and Common...

[Maine_Triker]

So does this mean that I will blow a fuse when I get around to putting a taillight on the SX?


I can see you guys trying to wire the lights for the speedo displays... that would be an interesting chalenge for ya... :lol:

[freewheel3]

Can you tell me which is the common?? You say to touch it to the common.. but thats the problem. We don't know which is the common and what not. I'll try doing all this again tomorrow.. but I don't know what is going on. I've probly tried nearly every combination of wires.
Green is common. It is a ground wire, not a power wire.

[nouseforaname90]

Sorry bigredhead.. I missed that one telling me about which wires were which.
And I was outside trying to take the pics you wanted when you posted your pics and stuff. I feel so stupid for not seeing that. You can obviously tell I'm not too familiar with the electronics on these bikes.
And Maine Triker.. I could do it if I had instructions. Unfortunately I don't have instructions on doing this headlight swap.
And about the circuit thing. The 350X wiring harness doesn't exactly have the headlights as a circut. Each light has 3 individual wires, and they both hook into a connector that feeds off of one wire. The SX is set up to power one bulb, so I don't think the circuit thing would be the problem. (1 bulb missing = problem)

[thedeatons]

If we could get you a meter we could tell which one is common quite easily... If those bulbs are in series as mentioned, that means you'll need both bulbs in for either one to work, and both bulbs will have to be good working bulbs. Being wired in series means that the current has to travel through the first light before reaching the second light, so if you're first light is blown or missing, then current will never get to the second light, so you'll never see any lights! Just like the old christmas tree bulbs, if one is blown the whole strand is useless... Being wired in parallel is better, because then each light has it's own current path (it's own wiring loom to it). I can't guarantee that they are wired in series, other than taking someone's word for it. If they were in front of me I could tell you... Is there a wire or pair of wires running from one bulb's socket to the other bulb's socket?

[bigredhead]

The deatons is right....

I still want that picture of the X headlight.

[thedeatons]

If what is written above is true, then the 350X is wired in parallel (which makes sense because wiring headlights in series is a bad practice) and the 250SX headlight assembly is in series, only because there is only one bulb, so there is no need for parallel wiring. Please find a cheap meter so we can get these darn headlights working... That or you cold touch a couple wires to your dogs nose, and when he jumps and runs off, you know you've found the correct combination... Rover the multimeter...lol (I'm only kidding PETA supporters..!!)

[nouseforaname90]

No. I just said that they are not wired in a series. Each bulb is wired individually, but connects to the same wire from the wiring harness on the 350X. The thing about going in a series should not be my problem.
And I had the pictures of the X headlight for you, but I deleted them. 1) because I thought you didn't need them anymore. 2) because even though it is a $500 dollar digital camera, I cannot zoom in on it. When I zoom in far enough for you to be able to see the wires, it gets blurry and you could not make it out for a ****.

I could find another picture of the X headlight for you, or make a diagram of what it looks like?

[bigredhead]

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC350Xx85Thru86.jpg

ok.. i need to edit my above post... if i am reading this diagram properly... both bulbs have 3 wires each that connect to a 2 in 1 connector.. wich connects to the bike's wires.

This makes them parallel right ?

In series there would be no way of having High and Low the way it's setup with 3 wires.. it would just be 2 wires with a voltage change on the switch.... but this is a 3 wire setup... does this mean it gives 12v to one filament on low.. and then 12 v x 2 on high ? or are they 2 seperate filaments with each their own circuits ?

[nouseforaname90]

There are two different filaments in the bulb. I'm almost positive that they each get their own circuit. One filament is small, and the other is about 2x the size. So I'm guessing that the small one is on when it is in low beam, and the larger one lights up when it is in high beam..

[bigredhead]

about the digicam.. look for a " Macro " option.. mine has a symbol of a flower .. for closeups.. and i have a 7 megapixel

[Maine_Triker]

No. I just said that they are not wired in a series. Each bulb is wired individually, but connects to the same wire from the wiring harness on the 350X. The thing about going in a series should not be my problem.
And I had the pictures of the X headlight for you, but I deleted them. 1) because I thought you didn't need them anymore. 2) because even though it is a $500 dollar digital camera, I cannot zoom in on it. When I zoom in far enough for you to be able to see the wires, it gets blurry and you could not make it out for a ****.
Your camera should have a little button that lets you get within 1 cm or less... or is that only on $700 camera's? :wondering

I'll try to get a good look at mine tomorrow... I got it wired properly the first try... I can't figgure out what could be wrong. :wondering

[nouseforaname90]

Ok. Well I could make a diagram for you. Would that work?
If ABSOLUTELY (because I would have to borrow my brothers camera from him again and he's moody.. and I would have to go outside again) need be, I'll go take the picutres for you.

[bigredhead]

Well.. i have a pretty good idea of what it looks like.. and by all accounts it should work just fine........... weird. ( I think it's like the fuse.. it's a minor detail !! :p )

[thedeatons]

Yes, those are in parallel. One hot wire leading into two hot wires means seperate current paths (wires) for each headlight, which means parallel...

As far as the voltage level question, the level should be the same when in high or low, the filament makes the lighting difference. My bet is that the thinner filament is "highbeam", because it's thinner it would have less resistance, which means more current flow, which means a hotter filament, which means a brighter light. The fatter filament should be "lowbeam", because it offers more resistance, etc, etc... The switch is just telling the current which path to travel down... Does that make sense to you guys?

[Tri-ZNate]

It wouldnt be in parallel because you just have double the wires going to each wire on the harness.

I'm just going to shut up because they have to be in parallel in order for the low and high beam to be on at separate times.

[nouseforaname90]

Well I know I'm not overlooking something on the headlight like I did on the fuse. I'll hook up the SX headlight again tomorrow and see what she does. If it works, and I hook the 350X headlight up to it and it doesn't.. I'm goign to flip out.

[nouseforaname90]

Yes, those are in parallel. One hot wire leading into two hot wires means seperate current paths (wires) for each headlight, which means parallel...

As far as the voltage level question, the level should be the same when in high or low, the filament makes the lighting difference. My bet is that the thinner filament is "highbeam", because it's thinner it would have less resistance, which means more current flow, which means a hotter filament, which means a brighter light. The fatter filament should be "lowbeam", because it offers more resistance, etc, etc... The switch is just telling the current which path to travel down... Does that make sense to you guys?

Surprisingly enough, I already knew that. Lol. Spending 2 hours out there trying to figure out the damn headlight, and I atleast learned one thing. But I still can't figure this out. Why wouldn't it work? The old headligh worked flawlessly. Now I get this new headlight, and it wants to be tempermental. Unless Honda changed the wire colors and different colors are for different things, but its from the same year of bike. And the wiring diagrams (from what I could understand) confirmed that low/high/common are the same color wire on the SX and on the headlight.

[thedeatons]

Hey, here is a redneck meter (circuit tester) idea... do you have access to the bulbs you will be using in the trike? If so, place it on a rag in close proximity to the wires coming from the trike (the wires going to the headlight). Use the common wire (whatever color that was, I forgot) and one of the other two wires to touch to the lightbulb at one of the base nipples and the metal piece outside of the buld (touch the common to the outside metal base and the hot wire to one of the filaments inputs)... I don't know what these bulbs look like so someone helkp out here please... MAKE SURE THAT FIRST YOU USE ELECTRICAL TAPE TO TAPE OFF THE OTHER WIRE NOT BEING USED SO IT DOESN'T SHORT ITSELF TO ANYTHING AND BLOW UP ANOTHER FUSE!!! You'll want to do this carefully, and make sure they are not touching anything while you get the light switch in the on position, then touch them to the places on the bulb I mentioned above... If the light comes on (if it's a working bulb), then you know that part of the ciruit works. We half to half-split this thing and troubleshoot one thing at a time. This will test out the trikes lighting circuitry... Tell me if you're confused... This test shoudl be quick and give good results... James

[bigredhead]

Well If it works, and I hook the 350X headlight up to it and it doesn't.. I'm goign to flip out.

:lol: ... Oh man.. i sides hurt....... :lol: :lol:

Don't give up... keep at it.

V x A = W still remains true tho.

If you are running 2 bulbs instead of just one, ASSUMING the wattage is being doubled.. your SX has what size bulb ? and the 350X has what ? if the sx has a 30 w bulb.. and the X has 2 x 15. then the fuse is fine..

IF and i repeat IF you have double the bulb wattage, you will need a bigger fuse depending on how many amps you are now pulling.

[thedeatons]

Does eachh bulb in the 350X headlight assembly have a high and low filament or is one bulb for high and one bulb for low??? The wiring diagram shows that each bulb has two filaments... I just want to verify that.... If they each have two filaments, then they could be wired in series and still work independently, each filament would just have it's own series circuit. The diagram however shows this is not the case.... FYI...

[nouseforaname90]

I get it. Would I touch the common wire to the "nipple" on the bulb, or just the metal part around the bulb? How would I determine the high/low? I'm kind of confused on that one. I'm guessing that one of the nipples is high, and one is low. But if I touch the low wire to the high "nipple", how am I going to determine the difference?

[thedeatons]

DONT LAUGH DARN IT!! You'd be surprised how you can rig up "test equipment" from an egg and a ballpoint pen spring (a la Mcguyver)

[nouseforaname90]

Does eachh bulb in the 350X headlight assembly have a high and low filament or is one bulb for high and one bulb for low??? The wiring diagram shows that each bulb has two filaments... I just want to verify that.... If they each have two filaments, then they could be wired in series and still work independently, each filament would just have it's own series circuit. The diagram however shows this is not the case.... FYI...

I think you are thinking that maybe one headlight works for low, and one works for high? No. Each light has 2 filaments.. one high and one low. They both work at all times.

[bigredhead]

Does your bulb have 3 connections or 2 ?... if it only has 2.. then it don't matter.. bulbs are not - or + dependent. they will work either way. If it has 3 prongs.. then it's different.

[nouseforaname90]

The bulb has 2 bumps (or "nipples I guess) on the back of it.. I believe that is what you are asking?

[bigredhead]

Then put the common to the outer jacket of the bulb and the high/low wire to the nipples one at at time.

[nouseforaname90]

Ok. Green = common. But what will this determine? I mean.. how am I going to know when I touched it to the right nipple? If I toucht the "high" wire to the "low" filaments nipple.. wont it still light up as if it were in low beam?

And holy bejezuz guys.. we've added 3 pages to this thread in the past hour and have determined one thing: I am very stupid and don't know where a fuse is located on an ATC 250SX.

[thedeatons]

Excellent my good man, each nipple represents a filament... The outside of the bulb's base, whether it's a threaded base or one with two little prongs that tighten with a 1/4 turn represents "ground". On a trike or in a car the theory is that the current travels through those nipples (depending on which one is actuated by the switch), through the filament, and then to ground via the base, which make the light come on. The switch most likely applies the "ground" or 0 Volt potential to the base side of the bulb, through a wire from the switch to the bulb. When this ground potential comes into contact with the bulb's base, then current flows to it, and you have light! Have you tried touching the wires to the nipple (one nipple at a time) and to the base yet with the light switch on??

[freewheel3]

Touch it to both nipples (one at a time) & see which is brighter.

[thedeatons]

Doesn't matter man, just touch one of the "hot" wires to a nipple while the common wire is on the outside base, and see if there is freakin light... this will tell us whether the trikes wiring to that bulb is good or not. If one "hot" wire doesn't work then try the other.... If you here a pop, then ya touched something ya shouldn't have....

[thedeatons]

We're gonna get flagged, we've mentioned touching and nipple in the same sentence one too many times... just had to add some humor....

[nouseforaname90]

Nope. Thus far, I've only been trying to touch the wires to get it right. And I just thought of something. If one of the wires was ripped when I got it, would that be causing this?? Like if the wire for low beam was ripped from where it should be when I recieved this, that would cause it to only turn on in one instance, right? If the high beam wire is still attatched on the headlight, and i touched the high beam wire from the SX to the high beam wire on the headlight, it would light up as high beam. Where as if I touched the low beam wire from the SX to the same wire (high beam wire), it would light up as low beam, correct? Or not?

[Maine_Triker]

Hmmm... I do not remember what wattage 350x bulbs are.... but they did not blow fuses what I put the 350x HL on my SX.

[nouseforaname90]

We're gonna get flagged, we've mentioned touching and nipple in the same sentence one too many times... just had to add some humor....

Thats exactly what I was thinking. lol. Like.. you just mentioned about touching the nipple and then hearing a pop. Uhm.. heh. Is it just me or..

[thedeatons]

K, just to keep things straight, and for time's sake, let's not touch any wires together AT ALL! The wires should only be connected to a load, in this case the load being the light bulb, otherwise you blow fuses possibly other things.... I'm not sure what you mean by ripped.... can you explain further? If you mean the wires jacket (insulation) was ripped and maybe touching something metal, then yes, that is why you blew a fuse.... Please try and just have the three wires disconnected from everything, and touch the common to the base and one of the hots to a filament, we don't care which filament... you could have five filaments and it wouldn't make a difference, in this case we're just using ANY filament as a test light, to make sure we have voltage coming out of the wiring harness when the switch is on.... savvy?

[thedeatons]

By the way, you are using the wires comign from the bike's wiring harness right? They should end in a plug that normally plug into the headlight assembly.. You may need to run jumper wires from that plug to your "test light" to get this going.... be careful what touches what, work slowly and methodically...

[nouseforaname90]

No. Not what I mean. Like where the wire goes in to touch that "nipple".. it is soldered in place. If that solder had broken is what I meant by "ripped". Think about that and reread my post and tell me if it makes sense. If not, I'll attempt to explain again. Otherwise I'll just keep it to myself and go on. lol

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC350Xx85Thru86.jpg

And in that diagram it says that the green wire connects to "E" on the control panel. What does E stand for? I know that it is the common wire.. but what is E?! Engine??

[thedeatons]

E could be Earth Ground, which is a common term for the main ground wire, or it could just be Pin "E" on a terminal board... Not important... I see what you mean, yes, it could matter, it probably shorted itself to one of the other metal pieces around it and that's what blew the fuse... Good thinking... have you attempted to use the test light yet?

[nouseforaname90]

No I haven't. I'm not going to go outside to mess with it until tomorrow morning, because right now I'm just too worn out. With 2 hours of wet sanding on that tank today, putting on the decals, 2 hours of lifting this morning at the Y, an hour this morning trying to figure out that light, and probably 3 hours trying to figure out what was wrong with it after I shorted it. The only thing relaxing today has been the 30 minutes I rode the SX after I got it up and running.

I see no use in still sitting here trying to come up with solutions until I try all of the things we have said so far tomorrow and rule them out. I'm going to go to bed and I'll report back in the morning. Thanks alot for all the help, and all you guys that helped will definately get some credit in this SX project when I post her up on the boards.

[Maine_Triker]

LOL "E" is East!!! rotflmao

Ahhh darn...... I'm going to bed lmao... I'll report back early (10 AM??) tomorrow.

[thedeatons]

Okay man.... I'm gonna sign off from this convo tonight... please call me if you need help tomorrow.... 619-980-7268 (Cell). Try and bum a meter, and we can figure this out really quick I promise.... James

[bigredhead]

Hey... here is a potential dumb one.. but look in the bulb housing.. make sure the 2 Nipples... Nnnnniples..... Hmpff... i need to go out more.....

oh yeah... make sure they both make contact once the bulb in seated.. and that the conectors are clean.

[thedeatons]

I concur with that statement, i've had bulbs not make the full turn to seat and the nipples never make contact.... I'm still here i guess.... sigh

[bigredhead]

Well.. i just won a Drive shafr,, Diff with cover. and a swingarm for the SX from e-bay.. i hate having to stay up t'il 2 am to babysit auctions.... sheesh.

But. i'm off to bed. gnight.

[slothminx]

on the sx/es there is a 15 amp fuse in a case by the battery i would guess that this is the one that has blown. have a look on the es it is mounted by the battery and i think on the case it has fuse written on it;) take a look at this and if its burns out you can get some household fuse wire in there but that shouldnt be permanent.

lol i just wanted to solve the mystery of who said it was 15amp ;) nope it wasnt bigredhead it was me. go ask around all your friends at this point having a multimeter will be soo much help.

[Tri-ZNate]

ok now before anymore posts lets hear what we KNOW.

[Maine_Triker]

OK guys... after removing loads of electrical tape.... I found out what you need to do (at least for the wiring anyway). 2 simple steps...

The 350x HL has a total of 6 wires coming from it, 3 from one pigtail, 3 from the other. 2 are white, 2 are green, and 2 are blue; with one of each color on each pigtail. The SX has 3 wires coming from it... one green, one blue, and one white... so........

1 You need to splice the wires coming from the SX...... so for each wire you had before you now have a spot for 2 instead of one. Do this by cuting the wires between the last connection before the wires reach the SX HL and the HL itself. Discard the remaining SX wireing an discard the HL (lmao). ............... now.... you should of 3 wires coming from your SX... one green, one blue, and one white. Get 3 of those little thingys that allow one wire to come into them and two to go out on the other end and attach them.

You should now have a spot for 6 wires on the SX wireing... 2 for each color.

2 Now all you have to do is plug the 350x wires into the modified SX wireing which you made in step one, match up the colors and you're good to go...


I that doesn't work then you've got problems elsewhere.

PS- you might want to print this out and take it to the garage with you when you do it.... unless you have a laptop.

[nouseforaname90]

I had already tried that when I got the headlight, Maine Triker, and it didn't work. Which is what I thought was weird at first.
And then I found out that nothing worked. No combination of wires worked.
So this morning I woke up at 8 oclock just to work on it, and I tested every wire coming from the bike. I held the ground to the bulb, and tested the high and low beam wires. Everything worked. So I decided to take the SX headlight and put it on to see if it worked. It did.
So I decided to test each wire indivudually, and everything checked out.
So after that, I started thinking. What could be messed up that would make nothing work. The ground wire!! So to test it, I hooked the high and low beam wires to the HL wires, and then held the ground wire directly to the lightbulb. Wa-la. It worked. After hooking up the ground wire from the SX to the ground wire on the headlight instead of holding it directly to the bulb, I found out that it didn't work that way.
So it was the ground wire that was screwed up. There must have been a bad connection between the grounds on each pigtail. I put a new ground wire in, and now it works. Thank god!! It took nearly 4 hours of tinkering to figure that thing out and get it fixed. Thank you guys ALOT for helping me here. Now all I need to do is get that headlight lense/bulb from Bruce to put on, and get the taillight mounted and she is DONE! Again.. thanks a friggin ton for helping me with the headlight. Incase anyone in the future asks.. all the like-colored wires DO go together. And if nothing is working when they are connected, it is your ground wire.
So thanks again!!! I owe you guys quite a bit of credit for helping me out.

[bigredhead]

Cool... finally.

So.. what's next on the list ?( You cant' leave good enoug alone ya know ) ..

How's your clutch doing ? how bout a barnett unit !!

hahahahahahahah.. trust me.. it's never " Done "

[slothminx]

sweet you got it sorted :w00t: now take it for a ride for an hour or so if your bored and im sure that something will show up that you need to sort out ;) its starting to look great :TrikesOwn

[nouseforaname90]

I know it is never done. But for now, I'm limited to what I can do because I don't have much money left.. which is a good thing because having no money keeps you from spending it!

[thedeatons]

I'm glad you figured it out man... Hopefully you got a little electronics training in the process... James

[nouseforaname90]

Hmm. Ok. I told you that I had fixed it, but I guess I lied. So. The one headlight works great.. nothing is wrong. But the other one is being tempermental.
I got a new lense and bulb for it, and it works good. But the other side won't work. I'm not sure if it is the bulb or the wiring. When I put the one bulb in it, it is VERY VERY dim in both high and low beam. But when I put the other bulb in it, the high beam works fine, but the low beam doesn't work (because the low beam filiment is burn out). What is up??? I don't see why the bulb would be acting like this. If it ist he bulb, then I'm goign to have to figure something out, because I don't have any money to get another bulb. And if it isn't the bulb, WTF could it be? I'll test to see if it is the bulb or not tomorrow. But until then.. what do you think..?

[thedeatons]

Bulb problem most likely.... Swap the "good" sides bulb to the bad side, that will troubleshoot the wiring and tell you if that is good or not....

[ATCnut]

If both filiments of the bulb glow dimly, that means the ground is missing. What you have is the two filiments in series, making it a 24V bulb.

I think you have a bad pigtail, it is missing connections.

[nouseforaname90]

Well thats the weird thing. The one bulb I have, it works fine in high beam, but doesn't work in low beam since the low beam filiment is broken. But the other one just glows in high and low beam..

[ATCnut]

Might be a bad bulb too. Have you tried the bulb with the battery in your car?? Put the metal part against one terminal, and use a wire to connect one of the posts on the bottom to the other battery terminal. Try both posts and make sure the bulb is good.