Honda parts--plating vs. powder

[ATCT]

OK, in the Mike Coe thread, some discussion began regarding plating certain parts vs. powder coating, and it was said that it has already been discussed in a thread somewhere else. I've done a pretty decent search on the site and I've come up with discussion of axle plating and frames, but little else that was all that decisive. Am I missing this thread or post that describes this?

Essentially, I have gathered that an axle is plated. Looks like zinc or cadmium. Does it matter which one it is? Frame is obviously powder coated.

What about the swing arm? It looks like an '83 200X might be powder coated, although I can't be sure. How about the box swing arm for the '84 or 85 X?

Then there's all the black colored parts: engine housing and the head? Are these nickel plated? Or is that powder? The brake and clutch levers/mechanisms--again, I think they're plated but I'm not sure. Kickstarter, foot brake lever, and shifter?

Although I'm probably going to wait to get all of these done, I'd like to at least have the right info so I can price it out.

Also, once we gather the proper info, is there a way we can link it and the 3wheelerworld page so everyone can see if--maybe under specs or restoration or something? Just a thought about some useful info....

[thefox]

If you want it looking like paint then powder coat it, if you want a metal look then plate it. Most bigger parts are powder coated, things like the axle, hubs, bolts, and other hardware get plated.

[Meat-BoX]

I try to search for Stuff but I can never find anything. I think I just dont know what im doing most of the time anyhow.
I would like to see some of this info because Im looking to go insane soon and finish the Tecate. Its all Powder Coated with a Little Polish here and there, but compared to a few trikes Here, especially that Black Tri-Z my Tecate really doesnt look that Good.
I know I didnt do the motor But I had her Totally Rebuilt and wasnt taking her apart. I guess Pulling the Top End, and side cases isnt so bad, but then I can only spray the rest of the bottom end. I allso plan on Chroming a bunch of parts that I Bought and that I dont like Powdered. But I would like to know what Plating is if its an option.
I guess Im asking for info on Popular processes to bling out your trike, Pics to go with the info, and what ever else. Im sure someone who knows how to search can throw up some threads. :beer Please

Fox when you say Plated do you meen Chrome? Are they the same?

[thefox]

I realy don't know much about plating, hopefully others will chim in (deaton?).

From what I gather, you can have your parts plated, be it crome plated (shiny), zinc plated (duller gray) and Cadium plated (yelowish finish). The thing with plating is it is a very thin finish so you must prep the surface well before getting it plated. You basicaly have to polish the part first, if you don't then you can see the pattern under it.

[bigredhead]

http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/RapidPrototyping/define.html

Powdercoating simply involves coating parts with dry powered paint and then cooking them in an oven to melt and cure the paint.

plating is a process that that uses electricity to coat the parts in a thin layer of x metal .. zink, nickel etc.... both parts are submerged in liquid and given an electrical charge and kinda act like a battery.. the charge goes from one side to the other and carries along some metal particals and bonds to the parts to be coated.

[wanta250r]

powercoating? You mean powdercoating. I thought Powdercoating uses electrical charge also.

[bigredhead]

yes it does.. it uses " Static " charge to make the powder stick to the parts.

edit: i seem to have problems typing the word Powder today... doh :lol:

[ATCT]

If you want it looking like paint then powder coat it, if you want a metal look then plate it. Most bigger parts are powder coated, things like the axle, hubs, bolts, and other hardware get plated.
This isn't necessarily true. I recently stripped (with airplane paint stripper) my throttle. The paint came off fine and I used a good satin finish back to paint it. I know it will probaby scratch off, but for now it will do.

I then, however, tried to strip my brake leves and the part that clamps it to the handlebars, and the remover didn't do a damn thing--it's still black. So, I'm guessing this is some sort of plating. The throttle, the levers and the engine all look the same (or pretty close) to each other on a Honda, yet they're not all painted. Has anyone out there stripped the paint from the engine housings? Or is it plated?

There is a decent thread on the site regarding cadmium or zinc plating, and how it comes in a clear/silver or gold/yellow finish. However, it does not discuss other parts other than bolts. That's about all I've found.

[bigredhead]

There is also " Anodizing " .. another type of plating... paint remover will have a hard time with that stuff !! ie: brake levers . kinda like metalic colors.

[ATCT]

There is also " Anodizing " .. another type of plating... paint remover will have a hard time with that stuff !! ie: brake levers . kinda like metalic colors.
Ah! There you go. It seems like anodization can only wear off. In any event are just the levers anodized? Or is the engine anodized as well?

[thefox]

I don’t think the black is a plating, but that it is a paint. I don't know if it is a paint that has a special hardener in it to make it more durable (automotive paint is resistant to gas were spray paint isn't because of an additive) or if it is powder coated. Powder coating us used because it is a stronger finish. Some people say you can hit it with a hammer and it won't chip, I don't know if that is true or not. I do know that went I sandblasted a stock swing arm this summer the paint came off easy but then when I started blasting a swinger that had been powder coated it would barely come off. I only got about 1/4 of the powder coated swinger done in the time it took to due the painted one. The fame paint came off easy too, this made me thing that honda don't powder coat any of these parts and if they didn't powder coat these why would they do anything else?

Again, I don’t know much about this stuff and am hoping to learn more thought his thread.:beer

[bigredhead]

Plated surfaces are long lasting as the coating is bonded on a molecular level vs paint that just " coats " the parts....

Powder coat is tough stuff.. when i sand blasted my rear rack. like fox said above.. the spray paint layer came right off but the powdercoat layer was a !@#$%% to get off... took alot of time and effort.. powder coat seems thicker than spray paint in most cases, and bonds alot better.

Spray paint will come off in chips and peel away.. the powder bonds alot better to itself and the parts, and will not want to peel off at all. but rather come off at powder if you sand it off or blast it off..

[thedeatons]

I am the one that started the thread about zinc plating/chromate... I learned about that where I work now and also by talking to local platers. The thread also covers things like the rear axle and brake actuating arms.... Anodizing is for aluminum only. Anodizing is most likely what is on your levers/perches. Anodizing has a drawback, and that is fading.... A lot of the young guys on sportbikes put blue or red anodized bolts all over their fairings, only to have them fade over time and frankly look like crap.... Black is not as bad as far as fading goes however, it just loses it's gloss... I will try to post more pictures of my zinc plated parts here tonight, like the brake actuating arms...

[ATCT]

I am the one that started the thread about zinc plating/chromate... I learned about that where I work now and also by talking to local platers. The thread also covers things like the rear axle and brake actuating arms.... Anodizing is for aluminum only. Anodizing is most likely what is on your levers/perches. Anodizing has a drawback, and that is fading.... A lot of the young guys on sportbikes put blue or red anodized bolts all over their fairings, only to have them fade over time and frankly look like crap.... Black is not as bad as far as fading goes however, it just loses it's gloss... I will try to post more pictures of my zinc plated parts here tonight, like the brake actuating arms...
Pics would be great.

I asked about the engine casings because the black finish looks similar to the brake arms. I guess it could be a satin-finish powder coat.

I wonder if anyone from Honda could straighten this out (Mike Coe, perhaps? One of the administrators nixed that idea quickly though). It would be nice to find out once and for all what parts are what coated with on each model (There's only so many parts with different finishes. It wouldn't be all that lengthy a process)

[Bigred200]

Man I need to go to college to know what you guys are talking about I know what poweredcoating is but forget all that other stuff its all GREEK to me.....lol

[Meat-BoX]

So whats the best thing to do to each part? Powder Bigger stuff. Chrome and Plate motor goodies, and smaller parts. Then find a few colored Anodized goodies to set her off? And some blinging anodized skid plates for All you dunners.:w00t:
If there is such abeast I must see it:crazy:

[thedeatons]

I could easily clear this up with a call to Mike at Vintage... If anyone would know for sure it would be him.... Maybe I will get to that later in the week...

[ATCT]

I could easily clear this up with a call to Mike at Vintage... If anyone would know for sure it would be him.... Maybe I will get to that later in the week...
That would be good.

[thedeatons]

I will try and call Mike then.... I need to thank him for the work on my tank and forks anyway.....

I know for a fact that zinc plating is the only way to go for steel nuts/bolts/washers, along with other steel parts like axles (front/rear) and little things like mudflap supports (some will use yellow chromate and others will use the clear chromate to appear gray)

As far as aluminum parts go it is hard to say. Levers came from the factory in a semi-polished form and with the correct protectant added they can be kept perfect looking, although I wouldn't recommend a full polish due to the maintenance.

When Mike does my engine he is planning to do a new color powdercoating that he says will make engine cleaning as easy as wiping things away with a rag to bring the "new" back.

I would always recommend powdercoating for longevity/durability. Spray painting is a cheap way out and good for some, but it simply won't hold up. Anyone who says different is in denial. It all boils down to the simple fact that you get what you pay for. If spray painting was so darn spectacular, then why aren't all the custom guys using that method? I realize that not everyone has a big budget, but it is well worth the savings in my opinion....

[vintagemotorsports]

Hey guys,
Mike from Vintagemotorsports. I got a call from james and wanted to run a list of what i do for my restorations as far as plating powder coating and paint.
the biggest thing to remember is back in the 80s the products were not half as good as what is on the market today and on a restoration it is important to try to duplicate as close as you can to what honda or the other 3 did from the factory. as far as frames they were epoxy painted from the factory you can still epoxy paint now but powder coating essetially is the same end result with different ways to apply . powder coating is not just melting a powder that was sprayed on to a part there is an actual chemical process that goes on under heat that activates the resin and color parts of the powder just like a 2 part epoxy paint, so as far as frames and undercarrage parts I always powder coat and all of our glossy parts get a clear powder on top to protect from UV dulling out. now things like grab bars,pegs,handlebars they get done in a semi -gloss black powder coat ( not gloss) use your judgement of what the original parts sheen was . things like kick starters, shifters and some of the black honda bolts are black oxide coated Zinc this gives them a real thin coating that does not chip and wears , any shiny hardware part , bolts,brackets,clips etc are either done in a Zinc with clear plating or a Zinc with yellow chromate plating , the yellow is the gold color you have all seen. and any chrome is obviously chrome plating. now parts like fuel tanks, painted body pieces such as US90 stuff needs to be painted I use all dupont products or house of color for my Candy colors. never powder coat these parts they will look very bad, you can t beat the look of a nice paint job . and the quality of the clears that we use now can protect these bikes for a very long time this stuff is made to be on a hood of a car for years in all the bad elements and hold up well , most of our restorations are kept inside under climate controlled conditions ( Or bedrooms in James d case- lol) now things like the gold 250R wheels are anodized parts witch is basically plating for aluminum. and like james said spray paint may look good for the now but it wont hold up to much at all for the long haul if you want to do a quality restoration metal prep and a good coating is a must . good luck take care mike

[ATCT]

Hey guys,
Mike from Vintagemotorsports. I got a call from james and wanted to run a list of what i do for my restorations as far as plating powder coating and paint.
the biggest thing to remember is back in the 80s the products were not half as good as what is on the market today and on a restoration it is important to try to duplicate as close as you can to what honda or the other 3 did from the factory. as far as frames they were epoxy painted from the factory you can still epoxy paint now but powder coating essetially is the same end result with different ways to apply . powder coating is not just melting a powder that was sprayed on to a part there is an actual chemical process that goes on under heat that activates the resin and color parts of the powder just like a 2 part epoxy paint, so as far as frames and undercarrage parts I always powder coat and all of our glossy parts get a clear powder on top to protect from UV dulling out. now things like grab bars,pegs,handlebars they get done in a semi -gloss black powder coat ( not gloss) use your judgement of what the original parts sheen was . things like kick starters, shifters and some of the black honda bolts are black oxide coated Zinc this gives them a real thin coating that does not chip and wears , any shiny hardware part , bolts,brackets,clips etc are either done in a Zinc with clear plating or a Zinc with yellow chromate plating , the yellow is the gold color you have all seen. and any chrome is obviously chrome plating. now parts like fuel tanks, painted body pieces such as US90 stuff needs to be painted I use all dupont products or house of color for my Candy colors. never powder coat these parts they will look very bad, you can t beat the look of a nice paint job . and the quality of the clears that we use now can protect these bikes for a very long time this stuff is made to be on a hood of a car for years in all the bad elements and hold up well , most of our restorations are kept inside under climate controlled conditions ( Or bedrooms in James d case- lol) now things like the gold 250R wheels are anodized parts witch is basically plating for aluminum. and like james said spray paint may look good for the now but it wont hold up to much at all for the long haul if you want to do a quality restoration metal prep and a good coating is a must . good luck take care mike

That's awesome info Mike. Thanks a ton. I didn't see you mention the engine, but based on what you described, it looks like a powdercoat with a satin/semi-gloss finish? At least on the 200X.

Once again, thank you so much for the invaluable info.