330 Esr Bolt On Short Rod Kit!!!

[RideRed250R]

i have been told that esr came out with one for the short rods.. iam going to look into this some more.. the rumors saying 50 rwhp with there mono match port kit. and excess of 60 with there TRX11 port... iam lookin to purchase it if the rumors are true that the kit is out now... if not ill stick with my 310 like plained but look forward in the near future to more info
Adam

[deathman53]

330 on a short rod with no case machine, that must be a really thin sleave on the bottom. I have a 330 bolt-on for the long rod and it makes no where near 50 horses. my lrd 310 pv makes alot more power than my 330 did. I will never buy another cylinder kit fom esr, their porting sucks big time. I wouldn't jump on this, I bet if you have a good port job on your current cylinder it makes more than a esr 330.

[RideRed250R]

hmmm never heard ESR sucks... heard CT sucks... interesting.. also the 330 only has two bores before the sleeve needs to be resleeved.
adam

[3Razors]

A properly ported standard 250r will put out 50-55hp with the right pipe and 38mm carb. 70hp if you switch to alcohol. The 330 would have more torque though.....

[TeamGeek6]

Theres no such thing as bolt on horsepower, it has to be tuned.

Case in point. My R outran a ported, high compression R just because it had a hopped ignition system.

Youll never get big ponies without a proper ignition system.

Id hesitate before using any rod that "bolted on" theres not much meat down there.

[Billy Golightly]

Uhhh, I'm pretty sure the OP was referencing the fact that ESR makes a 330cc topend bolt on kit that fits the earlier 85-86 short rod engines instead of only the later long rod motors. Not an actual kit to bolt on a shorter rod...

[OldSchoolin86]

A properly ported standard 250r will put out 50-55hp with the right pipe and 38mm carb. 70hp if you switch to alcohol. The 330 would have more torque though.....
WOW! I'd love to see some dyno's on that. 55hp at the rear with just porting, carb and pipe?


Theres no such thing as bolt on horsepower, it has to be tuned.

Case in point. My R outran a ported, high compression R just because it had a hopped ignition system.

Youll never get big ponies without a proper ignition system.

Id hesitate before using any rod that "bolted on" theres not much meat down there.
Trust me, your R didn't out run a ported, high comp R just because you have your magic beans. I'm sure it was a tuning or operator error.:rolleyes:

[x.system]

WOW! I'd love to see some dyno's on that. 55hp at the rear with just porting, carb and pipe?

I'm actually working on one of these right now, my goal is 60 hp from a worked over stock cylinder. My cylinder is going to the porter this coming weekend so it will be a while before I can get any dyno sheets to post. We're going to try a couple different pipes and carbs to see what gains can be had. I'm also checking on an ignition setup to work with this.

[OldSchoolin86]

I'm actually working on one of these right now, my goal is 60 hp from a worked over stock cylinder. My cylinder is going to the porter this coming weekend so it will be a while before I can get any dyno sheets to post. We're going to try a couple different pipes and carbs to see what gains can be had. I'm also checking on an ignition setup to work with this.
Now that will be a cool thread. I'll be looking for that one. Now this ignition doesn't include magic beans too does it? :lol:

[x.system]

Now that will be a cool thread. I'll be looking for that one. Now this ignition doesn't include magic beans too does it? :lol:

Only if it adds HP :w00t:

[TeamGeek6]

it will be a while before I can get any dyno sheets to post. .

Thats the magic word!!

Im not sure it can happen on stock compression and timing.

Might have to come up and have a look. MI aint that far. Been itching to dyno Ol Red.

[3Razors]

Itll be a sleeper:)! It will require race gas or 100LL. But with the right headwork and pipe itll breath fire. Only drawback is it will be a peaky "high rpm" motor with virtually no low end torque. 12000 rpms!! Best suited for tt, sand duning, drag racing, ect. You really have to find an engine builder that knows their stuff. Davemoore racing and ftz do lots of these motors.

The most important thing is TUNING!!!

And the stock ignition will work fine.

[x.system]

Itll be a sleeper:)! It will require race gas or 100LL. But with the right headwork and pipe itll breath fire. Only drawback is it will be a peaky "high rpm" motor with virtually no low end torque. 12000 rpms!! Best suited for tt, sand duning, drag racing, ect. You really have to find an engine builder that knows their stuff. Davemoore racing and ftz do lots of these motors.

The most important thing is TUNING!!!

And the stock ignition will work fine.

I'm building it to race tt, its replacing a pt 265. It will actually be about the same as the pt but with different port work. I'm going to have to work something out though, I don't want to loose all the torque, I need a good mix of both torque and revs. Our straightaways are only about 3 to 400 feet long, I'm going to need some low to mid end grunt for the tight corners.

[deathman53]

I'm not impressed with esr's porting, its rather poor in my opinion. my 310 makes alot more power and more torque, something is wrong, same ignition, pipe and carb, but a smaller bore making more power.

[3Razors]

Sounds pretty cool x system. Gonna be using lots of clutch! Lol I think itll work out fine in the end.

If you can get Eddie from esr, he knows how to work 250r magic. Problem is esr has kinda turned in trinity with all the cookie cutter motor packages and work.

[250r'en +TCB]

but you have to remember with the trx11 port you have barly any low end people say...... crap for trails...

[ChrisD]

Hey x I'd be interested in what you come up with. I don't have an economical way to use a dyno otherwise I'd sp[end more time on it. There are lots of combinations I'd like to try.

I have used PT, ESR (I have the 330) and FTZ. I liked the PT and FTZ motors, but have to admit that the 330 hase some punch. I have never used CT and would be curious to know how well it works. I'm curious to see which puts out more power. Maybe I'll buy one, but the 330 is fine for what I use it for.

My FTZ motor is pretty sick. I was head on with an equally modded Banshee and it was one of the best races I've ever had (vid on my site). I was only running a 30 over piston, but was a strong running 250. I have the cylinder on my shelf, but am running a 270 and the 330. When the 270 melts, the FTZ motor will come out of retirement.

Some of these guys kill me. They say that they know a shop's work based upon heresay. Please don't chime in unless you have ACTUALLY uses a particular shop's work.

Personally, I have gone to gearing my bike to the size of the track. It usually takes care of the "low end" problem I keep hearing about. Im trying to match the track to a point where I top out a gear at the end of the straight. On a big ice track, I will run the ol trusty 15/33 gears because it will pull it on the long sweeping turns, but it needs shorter gears on a small track.

As far as low end power problems in the woods, I run a 270 with a 39 PWK (bad for low end), tall gears (bad for low end), I run a high compression motor (wrong for the woods), etc etc, but love the ability to pull the front wheel in any gear I want to jump anything I want. I don't believe that 250 motor is that bad in the woods. Then again, I don't usually ride at 500-1500 RPMs either.

Just my 2 cents on the subject. Oh and I don't think that ESR has a short rod bolt on kit either.

[BigGreenMachine]

CT Racing in so. calif. I assume? I had them do the sleeves on my two Tecate cylinders, did good work but the turnaround was a month short of a year...thats my only complaint.

[x.system]

I talked to my builder tonight and he's telling me 60hp at the rear wheels won't happen but high fortys, low fiftys is very possible. I don't know how much you loose from the crank to the rear wheels but it will be interesting to find out. I'm taking my parts to him this weekend sometime so he can get started. He just dynoed a play port cylinder and got 42 at the rear wheels and ran a 5.5 in a trx in 300' drags. I know this is faster than my 265 was, my best time with it in my trx was a 6.2 but I was averaging a 6.10. I will make a new tread once we get this motor close to running.

The gearing is key to smaller tracks, I think I still need to work on mine more. I'm not completly topped out on the straights, I need to drop more in the rear sprocket and see if my corner speeds improve or not.

I've mostly used PT and the last two motors worked great but I think you get a basic port from big shops like that. I know my motor went back to them at least 3 times to get the port work reworked. I had a honda dealer that did alot of business with PT send it in for me years ago with his motors to finally get what I wanted. Now I can drive 30 minutes and pick it up and if it don't work the way I want I won't have a 3 week or more wait for turnaround.

[3Razors]

Most of the performance shops in dirtwheels are so-so. When you send *Edited**Edited* parts to them they are not being worked on by eddie sanders (esr), harry mcdermont (trinity), or allen knowles (ct). Instead some high-school dropout with a porting template is grinding away. Usually the best shops are the ones that don't advertise. Because in reality they dont have to and they let their work speak for itself.

[RideRed250R]

alright... so i got off the fone and talked to a Tom at ESR, he said that each port job has 15 + man hours on it. and that ever dome for the cool head is Machined to match that port job.. not just a off shelf dome... also. i been researching alot on 250R big bores for the past 3 years and i have never heard a person say esr's port jobs are crappy... never... but thats your opinion... i would go to lrd to look but their website is down and has been down for awhile... also... the CR ignition, the PVL and the MSD have all been proven to act the same as a stock R ignition with a Dave moore cdi... the cdi will be the only thing that Enhances your spark... the gain from the seat of the pants is mostly do to a lighter flywheel.. higher revs.. quicker revs.. a more aggresive acceleration.. thats my opinion... ill get the link to Dave moore and you guys can read the dyno tests
Adam
here it is
http://www.davemooreracing.com/ignition_syste.html

[RideRed250R]

ok heres a 310 TRX9 port cylinder running their woods pipe (TRX6) ment all for bottom end.. it also is running a 36PWK, the motor was built mainly for a woods bike... this dyno is 100 octane... makes yah think ah!
Adam
yah i know its close to the line.. but its 51 RWHP... if you think about what a more agressive pipe, carb, airbox eliminator kit. and 110 octane + gas... you could hit a bigger number....

[3Razors]

ESR is a good company. Their staple is the 250r which put them on the map.

[x.system]

Looks like you have 4 choices with esr, econo, trx 7, 9 and 11. I would call those a generic port job that anybody can get. I'm not saying I don't like esr's products but call it like it is. If I bought an esr cylinder I would have someone else port it.

[RideRed250R]

you get the same thing at any other shop.. they ussually have their certain ways of porting a cylinder.. they just dont name them... you ask for a mid to top port.. they will port it to a way they know you get your aggresive mid to top... look at trinity. ct, dave moore racing, esr, atomix performance, redline engineering, packard, Southern Style all the main porters out there. and they ussually have a name for what style port hey will use in your application...
Adam

[3Razors]

But there is a difference. Certain porters just take more pride and perfection in their work. I have scene so many STAGE 23 cylinders from reputable companies and you wouldn't believe of what passes for good porting. If the transfer ports are even slightly uneven you will lose hp.

There are also alot of so-called engine builders who are nothing more than machinists. Where all they know is the bigger is better theory, so theyll try and take a Chevy 350 piston and make it fit in a motorcycle. 2 stroke engine building is more of an art with proper pipe design for the porting/head combination.

[x.system]

ok heres a 310 TRX9 port cylinder running their woods pipe (TRX6) ment all for bottom end.. it also is running a 36PWK, the motor was built mainly for a woods bike... this dyno is 100 octane... makes yah think ah!
Adam
yah i know its close to the line.. but its 51 RWHP... if you think about what a more agressive pipe, carb, airbox eliminator kit. and 110 octane + gas... you could hit a bigger number....

This is a perfect example, 51rwhp you say but look at it, its a 310, ported at that. Your saying the only way to improve that cylinder now is add ons? Another porter could take that cylinder up to its potential easily. 51 doesn't impress me at all on a 310 and I wouldn't waste the money if thats all it was capable of.

[3Razors]

Exactly! I mean if i put down my hard earned cash on a 310 ported cylinder and only got 51hp. I would seriously say "shame on my engine builder"