What happened to my 350x?

[bondoboy]

This is kind of a long story so bear with me. Five years ago, my brother and I bought our first high performance atv, an 86 350x. The bike was in nice shape, not perfect, but I was proud of it. About a week later my friend had a 4th of july party. He told me to bring the 3 wheeler and we would do some riding. My friend has a very fast cr250. Someone at the party wanted to ride it. My friend asked me if he could follow on my 350x. I said ok just take it easy. Anyone knows a cr250 is faster than a 350x. So those 2 guys take off for some trails. The first thing my friend does is jam his fat knee into my original oem atc seat so he could do some wheelies. I told him to stop because I didn't want my original seat ripped. He did this same thing to my 250sx and tore the seat. So they take off down a paved straight stretch of road and turn off into the woods. About 10 minutes pass as I wonder what my friend is doing to my bike. Then I see them turn back on the paved road with the cr in the lead. The guy on the cr guns it and flies wide open down the road. What does my idiot friend do after I tell him to take it easy? Right, he decides to go wide open, too, to catch up. After what seemed like an eternity with my recently purchased 350x at full throttle. He turns into the driveway. He does a wheelie across his yard and then parks it by the garage. Right now I am mad enough because my best friend would abuse my new toy. Then I look at the 350x and white smoke is rolling from the exhaust. I got madder yet. I asked him why it was smoking. He said, "Oh, I probably just floated the valves." I'm not stupid, I know it is abusing an engine when the valves float. Now I'm just disappointed that my friend would do this. I told my brother, "Let's just go home." I ride the 3 wheeler home and my brother follows me in his truck. We get home and start messing with the 350x trying to see what kind of damage was done. As we revved the engine more smoke came out. Now my brother is really upset. We went in half and half on this 3 wheeler, but my brother was the reason we actually bought it. It was more his new toy than mine. My brother, Jess drives back up to my friends house and lets him have it. Jess called him everything but a human being. My friend knew we were mad. But, it's been 5 years and he has never apologized. I haven't spoken to him since. Needless to say he is no longer my friend. You need to know something about my former friend. He is one of these rich kids that doesn't care about anyone else's stuff. The 3 wheeler still runs, but on cold starts it smokes for about 4 minutes. What actually did my former friend do? What would make an air cooled 4 stroke smoke white? On the upside, I have to give Hondas credit. Their stuff can be used and abused and still run. The 350x is still a good machine and it will be at trikefest this year along with my 450r. Any feedback to this story would be appreciated. Thanks.

Marty

[Somekindofjerk]

Theres allot that could have been done to your beautifull machine. It could have burned the valves, ruined the rings, your carb could be out of adjustment, or you could have bad valve guied seals. For burnt valves new ones are available on denniskirk, for ruined rings call your local honda dealer for rings(If its a honda piston, if it isnt find out what kind and if its overbore and buy a new rings from the company), For your carb you can adjust your mix screws a little(Should be a problem though unless your friend tweeked them), and for bad valve guied seals as far as i know you can not buy them seprate. Call your local honda dealer for the valve guied seals. To replace rings you will need a topend rebuild kit, and to replace your valve guied seals, you will need new valve guied seals, valve clearance, and a gapper to adjust the valve clearance.

I would have killed him myself... I hardly let anyone ride my X. Its my baby:TrikesOwn

[MTS]

Smoking white? dose it still do it? i would have just guessd he sucked in some water at some point during the ride....

[bondoboy]

Like I said, yes it smokes a little on cold starts. I've never had to rebuild a honda engine before. What kind of price am I looking at here? And yes, I should have killed him. I don't let anyone but my brother ride my bikes.

[Somekindofjerk]

Try your carb first, look on the internet for your carb and where the screws and what not are located. Is your airbox/air filter dry and clean? Allso, does it smell like its burning oil?

[bondoboy]

The air filter is dry. I guess it could be burning oil. Thanks for the help.

[Somekindofjerk]

If its not burning oil you want to adjust your carb, or get a new spark plug. If it is burning oil you need to look into rings, valves, and valve guied seals.

[dizasterzrfun69]

i dont know about the problem but it sounds like he was a real good friend NOT. just be glad thats all that happened to it. People like that just dont respect other peoples property because it's not theirs so its not their problem. I have alot of people thinking i'm an arse-hole and everything else because they want to ride my stuff and i dont let them. Why should i spend my money on a machine and let some disrespectful person destroy it? I've wanted 3-wheelers and 4-wheelers my whole life and now that i worked my arse off to get them and i finally have them, they are MINE! Yea i'd let howdy ride my machines if he ever asked because he is my uncle first off and 2nd i know he will treat my machines with care.


Kevin

[Somekindofjerk]

i dont know about the problem but it sounds like he was a real good friend NOT. just be glad thats all that happened to it. People like that just dont respect other peoples property because it's not theirs so its not their problem. I have alot of people thinking i'm an arse-hole and everything else because they want to ride my stuff and i dont let them. Why should i spend my money on a machine and let some disrespectful person destroy it? I've wanted 3-wheelers and 4-wheelers my whole life and now that i worked my arse off to get them and i finally have them, they are MINE! Yea i'd let howdy ride my machines if he ever asked because he is my uncle first off and 2nd i know he will treat my machines with care.


Kevin


Exactly! Can i ride it?:banned:

[grundlegrabber]

:eek: Let it be a lesson to ya. I have several nice machines, and it gives me pleasure to let other people enjoy them sometimes. But the only people I ever allow to get on them are people that I know very well, and that I know have respect for the machine they are riding. It's a shame that some folks don't have any respect for other people's stuff. You shoulda kicked that dude's ass. I've found that "friends" like that are not worth your time.
Anyhow, sounds to me like you probably have an oil burning issue. Oil smoke usually has a hint of blue color. Common in older 4 strokes that have never been rebuilt. As long as it starts easily and runs as it should, it's not gonna kill anything to run that way. However, the oil burning will eventually get worse. You may just want to bite the bullet and do a good top end job on her. Valve seals, valve guides, and worn rings will cause oil burning. If you're gonna tear her down, get the cylinder checked by a machine shop for wear and taper. If it's worn past spec, it should be bored. If not, a simple honing will do. I recommend using OEM Honda piston, rings, and gaskets. Valve seals are included with the OEM top end gasket kit. The guides usually don't go bad, and they are difficult to replace. Price the parts out on www.servicehonda.com . Find a good local machine shop to do your head and cylinder work.

[badculture]

The 350 engine is one of the most durable engines on the planet. A hot lap around the woods should not destroy the engine, it probably had issues before but, it just so happend that it let go when he rode it-not to say he is not a prick. If they were that sensitive to being over reved then most of us in here would be riding smoke machines. I have to agree it was probably a 20yr old set of piston rings showing there age.

[Somekindofjerk]

Smell the exaust. If it smells like gas, your running too rich and need to adjust your needle or mix screw to get the desired performance. If it smells like oil you might as well send it to your local honda shop for a total topend rebuild. Pay the extra money to be possitive its right.

[Unclediezel]

White smoke is typically water---and since it is aircooled--there is no explanation.---Moisture in the fuel--???????How old is the gas? did someone mix two stroke oil into the fuel????
Chase the obvious before the sublime---I cant buy that a hard romp would hurt things that badly----Unless he revved it full-out in neutral---it would never see valve float----or damage a guide for that matter.

[bassman]

Alot of you guys sound like arseholes.
I let just about all my friends ride/drive my stuff. But then again, none of my friends are like the friends the topic creator has. They all ride ATVs, and bikes, and I trust them 100%. But I guess everyone(but me, LOL) has friends like that.
If someone asked if they could ride one of things, I would just ask a few questions, like: Have you ever ridden before? How about a trike?
Then, just look at how they ride their stuff or how clean/dirty/beatup their toys are. Obviously, if a buddy doesn't ever care for his stuff, the I would most likley say no.
Kids are right out, I wouldn' even hesitate, unless it's like my brother or something.

[bassman]

"Chase the obvious before the sublime---I cant buy that a hard romp would hurt things that badly----Unless he revved it full-out in neutral---it would never see valve float----or damage a guide for that matter."

I was thinking that too.

[dufrain]

Too rich is black smoke smells like gas.Oil burning is blue/gray smoke,really stinks.White sounds like its lean,whats the plug look like.Check for air leaks.Check the intake boot,if you think its lean.If it were mine I would inspect the color of the plug and do a compression check.That will tell .

[bondoboy]

The plug looks okay. Probably this year I will rebuild it. The only reason I let my former friend ride it is because he was my friend since kindergarten and he has had atvs longer than I have. I trusted him and he just tore my bike up. Yeah, he's a dick alright. All of his vehicles and machines are nice so I didn't think he would abuse mine. Like I said before, he is a spoiled rich kid. If it ain't his, he don't care. He can tear up other peoples stuff and that's okay, but if you even breathe close to his stuff, you're hurting it. I rode his cr this one time and just barely hit the power band. Boy, he thought the world was coming to an end. Thanks for all the help guys.

[ride_red_95]

my 86 x does that too.its done that since we got but it never cut down on power.it wheelies great.but i never knew what wrong with it.

[bondoboy]

Also, I was wondering, do I have to remove the engine to do a top end rebuild? Or is there enough room to do it in the bike?

[Somekindofjerk]

No, it has to come out. Try adjusting your carb, its fairly easy and could be your problem. What collor is your plug?

[grundlegrabber]

bassboy, before you call me an azz hole, think about the situation at hand. You work hard, for years and years. For what seems like forever, you scratch and scrape just to get by. Finally you get to the point where you can just barely afford to own a machine that you've only ever dreamed of having. And of course, since you're a generous guy who just likes to have a good time, you want to share your newly-acquired treasure with your closest friends. How would you like it if the guy you trusted took your trike out, beat the hell out of it and screwed it up? "tuff crap, your problem not mine" he says, and you drag home the remains of your prized ATC. Maybe you should try to picture yourself in someone else's situation before you judge.

Like culture pointed out, you are likely seeing the results of years of wear, compounded by "the straw that broke the camel's back"- your ex-buddy's ignorant abuse. I grew up with friends who wouldn't let me ride their bikes. They all had nicer stuff than me and nobody ever would let me ride. He doesn't have any money to fix it if it breaks, they say. He doesn't know what it's like to handle a bike like this, they say. Now I have all the quads, bikes, trikes they ever wished they could have. I am still friends with many of them, and I let them all ride my stuff from time to time, so my friends can experience the joy that I missed out on as a kid. Let me tell you, if one of them disrespected my ride, that would be the last time they ever rode.

As far as the rebuild, go over all the basics. Check plug color, carb adjutment, fuel quality, etc. If you feel that a top end job is what you're looking at based on what we've discussed here, you need to make a decision. Are you gonna tackle it yourself or have a pro do it? It's been my personal experience that you're better off doing it yourself, if you're mechanically capable and have some decent tools. You will always care more about your own trike than the mechanic at the cycle shop does. If you decide to do a top end job, go get a shop manual. Yes, I do believe the motor needs to be pulled to do a top end job. Don't be discouraged, it's not that difficult if you stay organized. Set up some garage space, label all the parts and hardware as you take it apart, and be careful not to lose anything. Taking it all apart will give you the opportunity to go over the machine, clean it all up, and make sure everything is in good order. Trikes were meant to be taken apart and put back together again. Follow the procedures, and post any questions up here on the forums. Lots of knowlegeable guys and I'm sure you'll get the answers you need. Good luck with your trike. I built a 350x piece by piece, I know them fairly well. Happy to help in any way I can.

[NOS_350X]

IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THE TOP END WITH THE ENGINE IN THE BIKE. I higly recommend taking it out, Honestly it will save you time. You have to take out all the mounts anyways to drop it down so the jug can slide out.

[bassman]

Ok, I think you misunderstood me, Mrs. Grabber. Yes, i think alot of you are arse holes. Just because 1 person screws up your ride, doesn't mean punish the rest. If someone said "tough crap" after wrecking your toys, where are you finding these friends, seriously?

"Finally you get to the point where you can just barely afford to own a machine that you've only ever dreamed of having. And of course, since you're a generous guy who just likes to have a good time, you want to share your newly-acquired treasure with your closest friends. How would you like it if the guy you trusted took your trike out, beat the hell out of it and screwed it up?"

The thing is, you should know your friends enough to know if they will do such things. I know all my friends, and how they act on a machine.

"Maybe you should try to picture yourself in someone else's situation before you judge. "

A few of my friends have wrecked my stuff, I STILL let them ride it. One of them almost had their life lost. And I have YET to wreck my X, after about 1 year of owning it. They didn't say "tough crap", they helped me fix it. That's what friends do. I was trying to teach one of them how to ride.
Yes, they can still some over and ride when they please, but it would be under my supervision.

[bondoboy]

Yes, I will rebuild it myself. I am good mechanically. I also have a honda manual so I think I can tackle this. 350x owners, do I need any special tools to do a rebuild on the engine? I agree with you 100% grundlegrabber. This bike cost my brother and myself $1400. That was a lot of money for me at the time. I didn't appreciate my friend who knew better tearing up my new bike. He will never touch it again. Thanks for the help.

[RideRed250R]

should only cost about 200 dollars to rebuild the top end... as long as the head and all is in good shape... if you need new valves might as have the head ported as it has to be taken apart and many times givin a 3 angle valve job to properly realine the seat...also might as well upgrade the springs (about 60 bucks) a basic job like stated will be 200 bucks with a high comp piston. and can go to 450 really quick if you want it to go together and stay together for another 20 years... white smoke means lean very lean....its basically the color of all the crap heating up and little shffs of stuff coming out... it also hints a blown engine ready to go... as for your bike smoking all the guys are right... its time for a rebuild... it smokes for alittle cause everything is heatin up and sealin tight.... and then clears out cause everything is in operating temp and workin together... but i say if its apart or goign to get rebuilt might as well put the goodies to her...
Adam
if it ant broke dont fix it
if it broke make that stuff better

[Fox250R]

This is why i never let anybody ride my trike..Unless its got nice hooters :lol: ...Anything that goes wrong with my bike is my own fault..Kinda sounds like this guy mighta reved it to high in 4th or 5th maybe? Did you get a chance to hear the motor when he was riding it?

[bondoboy]

Yeah I heard it. I didn't think 4 strokes revved that fast.

[Fox250R]

LOL If you know how to ride a clutch you can do just about anything..

[bondoboy]

I will be rebuilding it this spring. Right now I am doing the engine in my car. So that's where my money is going now. My former friend had nothing to do with this though, ha ha. The car is a 71. The motor is just wore out. Thanks for the replies.