atv rider killed by ranger in NJ please read!!!

[wolfguy]

Recently a man and his friends were chased by park rangers in one of the North Jersey Sate parks. All the facts and details cannot be confirmed but what we do know is that a confrontation occurred between a group of riders and one or more park rangers. the confrontation led to an atv rider being shot 3 times by a ranger and a few days later died as a result of his wounds. All kinds of s*%t has hit the fan now. The family of the ATV rider has hired a bigshot lawyer from the OJ Simpson team and you can bet this will not be kept quiet, they are going after the rangers and anyone else that can be blamed. Aside from that there has and will more commonly be 3 players in this fiasco. 1 the EPA who are dead set against ATV riding 2 state government and anyone else politically involved who is basically trying to get ATV's banned completely in NJ and 3 representatives of New Jersey Off Road Vehicle Association and ATV supporters.
Before this incident it has been very difficult if not stressful to ride anywhere in NJ. For those of you who are not from NJ or not familiar with the state, we are horribly overpopulated here. Businesses strip malls and houses have been crammed into any spot possible stripping land that we once rode on. Taxes insurance and general living costs are ridiculous. For example $700000 will buy a cardboad box in an alley way and you'll easily pay $10000 a year in taxes. the laws in this state have become very strict, if caught by cops or rangers a slew of tickets and ATV impound results as well as possible suspension of liscense. very few of us own enough property to ride on so we all take huge risks when doing what we love. the EPA is screaming because the places we're left with are basically animal reserves and swamps which apparently we're killing all sorts of endangered tadpoles when riding through small puddles and mud bogs. I don't know much about environment so I'll take thier word for it. On top of all that if any homeowner catches you riding on the property he'll come hootin and hollerin after you because if anyone gets hurt riding on another property our horrible insurance companies will sue the homeowner. I can't blame them either. the only legal place to ride in NJ is in South jersey about 3 hours from me. it's a stripped sand quarry with about 100 acres and is run by the NJORVP, which is going to close in 2008.

This incident with the guy being shot is pretty intense but may work to our advantage. For one, cops aren't going to bother us as much for a while, and hopefully the government, public and EPA's eyes will be opened to our needs. So far everyone's solution has been to ban riders, perhaps this will let them open up new riding spots.
Everyone keep your eyes open in the news for the the developement of this situation and I will keep you posted with what's to come.

[nouseforaname90]

Thats just ridiculous. A ranger SHOT a guy for riding an ATV? What.. the guy wouldn't comply and leave the area or the guy wouldn't give up his ATV to be impounded? Thats completely ridiculous..

[Infinity Cycle Supply LLC.]

Recently a man and his friends were chased by park rangers in one of the North Jersey Sate parks. All the facts and details cannot be confirmed but what we do know is that a confrontation occurred between a group of riders and one or more park rangers. the confrontation led to an atv rider being shot 3 times by a ranger and a few days later died as a result of his wounds. All kinds of s*%t has hit the fan now. The family of the ATV rider has hired a bigshot lawyer from the OJ Simpson team and you can bet this will not be kept quiet, they are going after the rangers and anyone else that can be blamed. Aside from that there has and will more commonly be 3 players in this fiasco. 1 the EPA who are dead set against ATV riding 2 state government and anyone else politically involved who is basically trying to get ATV's banned completely in NJ and 3 representatives of New Jersey Off Road Vehicle Association and ATV supporters.
Before this incident it has been very difficult if not stressful to ride anywhere in NJ. For those of you who are not from NJ or not familiar with the state, we are horribly overpopulated here. Businesses strip malls and houses have been crammed into any spot possible stripping land that we once rode on. Taxes insurance and general living costs are ridiculous. For example $700000 will buy a cardboad box in an alley way and you'll easily pay $10000 a year in taxes. the laws in this state have become very strict, if caught by cops or rangers a slew of tickets and ATV impound results as well as possible suspension of liscense. very few of us own enough property to ride on so we all take huge risks when doing what we love. the EPA is screaming because the places we're left with are basically animal reserves and swamps which apparently we're killing all sorts of endangered tadpoles when riding through small puddles and mud bogs. I don't know much about environment so I'll take thier word for it. On top of all that if any homeowner catches you riding on the property he'll come hootin and hollerin after you because if anyone gets hurt riding on another property our horrible insurance companies will sue the homeowner. I can't blame them either. the only legal place to ride in NJ is in South jersey about 3 hours from me. it's a stripped sand quarry with about 100 acres and is run by the NJORVP, which is going to close in 2008.

This incident with the guy being shot is pretty intense but may work to our advantage. For one, cops aren't going to bother us as much for a while, and hopefully the government, public and EPA's eyes will be opened to our needs. So far everyone's solution has been to ban riders, perhaps this will let them open up new riding spots.
Everyone keep your eyes open in the news for the the developement of this situation and I will keep you posted with what's to come.


I mean to speak no wrongful words but would you not have to be doing somehting rather wrong other than riding to get shot by a ranger. By all means if you were just riding in the woods they would not shoot you would they???

[wolfguy]

The details of this whole thing are very vague and I am sorry i can't give any more facts. It is possible the rider charged the ranger, it is also possible the ranger opened fire. Nonetheless, the facts are the rider got shot 3 times and later died!! Even if he charged the ranger was this necessary??? The whole thing is insane.

[Infinity Cycle Supply LLC.]

The details of this whole thing are very vague and I am sorry i can't give any more facts. It is possible the rider charged the ranger, it is also possible the ranger opened fire. Nonetheless, the facts are the rider got shot 3 times and later died!! Even if he charged the ranger was this necessary??? The whole thing is insane.
If he charged the ranger yes it is understandable to me to a point. The fact he died is horrible, but atv or not if you were pulled over for driving your car in state police property and you drove your car at a trooper what would you expect from him

[wolfguy]

we'll get all the details when this unfolds in court. I doubt that a big shot lawyer would take this case if the rider was doing something to provoke the cop to shoot. I have a feeling the ranger overreacted but we'll see, I can only assume from the facts given.......

[Infinity Cycle Supply LLC.]

we'll get all the details when this unfolds in court. I doubt that a big shot lawyer would take this case if the rider was doing something to provoke the cop to shoot. I have a feeling the ranger overreacted but we'll see, I can only assume from the facts given.......
any big shot lawyer will take a sceptical case is there is the police and a shooting and large money a lawyer will take anycase with money. Godbless the one who has passed, and I hope everybody gets what they deserve. None the less if he was illegally riding then hey.

[Vealmonkey]

What I find insane is the fact that anyone would think that when someone is shot and killed that it would have any kind of advantage or leverage to make anything happen. It that were the case, you would think there would no longer be any troops overseas and we know that is not the case. The fact that anyone was shot and killed is tragic. I'm sure there is much more to this than meets the eye. I would forsee a negative event happen from this. I don't think a Park Ranger would kill someone in cold blood over nothing. Now atv'ers will be reflected in a bad light as to be some kind of hoodlums that federal officials will have to defend themselves against. If one Park Ranger had to defend his life, others will have to do the same. I hate to be negative, but I don't see anything positive coming of this whole event.

[250r'en +TCB]

The guy must have pulled a weapon or something, he had to have!!! Unless the laws are differnt in NJ and they can exacute you for reasonable suspision hahaha! Guilty until proven innocent just like in the communist governments! hahaha

[ScottZJ]

Sounds like people need to start boycoting NJ and just move away. I think if enough people did that then they might think something is obviously wrong here. That is sad to hear about too. My prayers are with the family and friends.

[Howdy]

we'll get all the details when this unfolds in court. I doubt that a big shot lawyer would take this case if the rider was doing something to provoke the cop to shoot. I have a feeling the ranger overreacted but we'll see, I can only assume from the facts given.......

They took OJ's case didn't they? They was able to get a lot of the evidence thrown out and he walked free. Truth is Money talks and the laywers are always listening. I honestly think we should send more of them quail hunting with Dick Chenney. lol


What I find insane is the fact that anyone would think that when someone is shot and killed that it would have any kind of advantage or leverage to make anything happen. It that were the case, you would think there would no longer be any troops overseas and we know that is not the case. The fact that anyone was shot and killed is tragic. I'm sure there is much more to this than meets the eye. I would forsee a negative event happen from this. I don't think a Park Ranger would kill someone in cold blood over nothing. Now atv'ers will be reflected in a bad light as to be some kind of hoodlums that federal officials will have to defend themselves against. If one Park Ranger had to defend his life, others will have to do the same. I hate to be negative, but I don't see anything positive coming of this whole event.

Vealmonkey, I agree here 100%. I can't see ANYTHING good coming out of this.

I am not jumping on either side here. I do feel sorry for all the family's involved.
Howdy

[wolfguy]

The only good thing I can hope coming from this is that if EPA and Governments only solution is to ban riding completely and ignore the fact that thousands or people in jersey own ATV's, that more incidences like this will happen which is what we all want to avoid. There is so much anger and hostility between people right now that situations like this will only keep occurring. If riders are given specified areas to ride there will be no more confrontation. I am hoping that this incident will give them an alternative solution and finally start to work on opening more ATV parks. OR it could go the other way and nobody will ever ride in jersey again. I can only be optomistic for fear of losing the hobby I love.

[jsimonh]

I think that there is not enough info yet to make a sound decision.
I do think no matter what happened, having a man killed who was on an atv is not going to help open more areas in anyway. I think it would just feed the beast in NJ to get more atv areas banned.

[250rAL]

This was on ATVRIDERS.com a couple of weeks ago. There's a lot more to the story. The area where the incident took place is apparently a hotbed for illegal activity. We're talking gang activity,drugs and meth production. IIRC, there were two rangers and they were attacked by a group of people that they came upon in the wilderness. They were probably doing drugs or making meth. Anyway the rangers were outnumbered and feared for their lives and one of them was even bitten.

[wolfguy]

holy crap I didn't know about this!! I have'nt seen any of this in the papers

[Groundworx]

Definetly need more info. Law enforcement can't just shoot at people for the hell of it. I would like to see the details of this.

[wolfguy]

I just found a good publication from one of the local papers

A state park police officer who shot and critically wounded a member of the Ramapough Lenape indian Nation last weekend was defending himself as the man tried to take his gun, the officers lawyer said yesterday. Rookie officer Chad Walder was running to the aid of a fellow officer who was allegedly being beaten by a tribe member when he got into a violent encounter with alleged attackers cousin 44 year old Emil Mann said attorney Robert Galantucci. Mr Mann was attempting to take Walders gun and he had to use the force reasonable necessary to protect himself as well as his collegues. Galantucci said defending the filing of assault charges against Mann. The comments are the first public explanation of Walders actions since the shooting, which occured last Saturday on county parkland in Mahwah. the state Attorney Generals office is investigating the actions of Walder and three other state park police officers in the wake of last weekends confrontation. Local and Begen County authorities have criticized the park officers for improperly going out of thier jurisdiction and for failing to notify local police that they were in the area. Those issues appeared to weigh heavily in a judges decision yesterday to reduce the bail of 44 year old Otis Mann, the Ramapough tribe member accused of assaulting Lt Kelly Gottheiner after she tried to arrest him for illegally riding an ATV. Rejecting the states argument that mann is a flight risk Superior court judge William C Meehan sitting in Hackensack reduced bail for the Monroe NY resident from $100k to $20k making it easier for the tribe to bail him out. Meehan noted the ongoing criticism of the park police and questioned about whether they followed protocols. Obviously this whole episode spun out of control he said There's a very unusual fact pattern in this case. the events involving Otis and Emil Mann have sparked allegations of wrongdoing on all sides. the Ramapough tribe, which maintains an insular community in the Stag Hill section of Mahwah claims the shooting was racially motivated that the response was extreme and the emergency response slow. Nothing on this level has ever happened here said Anthony Van Dunk Ramapough tribal Chief. We want to know why they used deadly force for this type of situation. Emil Mann who was shot in the leg and chest remained critical condition last night in Hackensack Hospital. Relatives said he was improving. As more details of the events leading up to the shooting emerged yesterday, Galantucci and others defended the park police officers. Walder 34 of Franklin Lakes feels terrible about the incident. rejecting accusations the officers targeted the Ramapoughs for racial reasons, galantucci said Walder believed he was in his jurisdiction and that the officers had stopped a number of ATV riders earlier in the day without incident taking addresses so that summonses could be sent to them. They werent trying to be heavy handed in any way Galatucci said it started out as a not being a big deal day. It was almost like the rangers were lured into the situation. In court yesterday Assistant Bergen County Prosecuter Catherine Fantuzzi said Walder and the other officers were on patrol Saturday in the vicinity of an abandoned goat farm when they spotted the Manns and others drinking and riding ATV's. At around noon Walder and another officer arrested Harold Dennison of Mahwah a tribe member who was on an ATV carrying a knife and gun with hollowpoint bullets. After the officers booked Dennison they made thier way back to nearby Ringwood State park. At around 3:45 Gottheiner spotted MAnn on an ATV and asked him to stop, Mann allegedly drove away, 20 minutes later she spotted Mann standing next to his ATV. She told him she was going to arrest him and he resisted. Mann grabbed the LT. by the ponytail and then smashed her head into the rack on the ATV, and also went for her baton. At that point another officer Kenneth Kriete got into a tussle with the mans 14 year old daughter but drew his gun on Otis Mann who relented and was handcuffed. As Walder ran to help Gottheiner he encountered and shot Emil Mann. Mann has been charged with assaulting a police officer disarming a law officer, obstrucing justice and hindering apprehension. Steve Schefers attorney for Mann said his client fully contests all charges against him. he said Mann stood in handcuffs for an hour after his cousin was shot and walked down Stag Hill alone. At one point he passed a truck full of park rangers traveling up the hill who refused to help. This is a very unfortunate incident Schefers said these paople have used this land for many years and they consider it thier right to be there.

This was written by the Star Ledger paper on April 7. This whole thing sounds like something from Jerry Springer. Looks like I'll be planning to move out of the state soon.

[2strokes4life]

the dude that came up from NJ to buy my 350X said on the way up they had the highway shut down to air lift someone hurt on a quad. i wonder if this is the same person? did this happen about 2 weeks ago?

[Russell 350X]

That is crazy. Well if all the info is true then I guess the ranger had the right to fire. This is nuts, it makes everyone else look like sh!t that rides ATV's lawfully.

[400exguy]

Does anyone have any updates on this? Like mentioned before, this makes all ATVers look like bad people. No matter what happens in a case that involves ATV's, everything is blamed on the ATVer even if it is not true. Anything to make the sport look bad.

I have nothing against native indians but this statement bothers me..."This is a very unfortunate incident Schefers said these paople have used this land for many years and they consider it thier right to be there." I know of places that have been closed off from off roading that has been used ever since dirt bikes and quads have been around for riding...so then shouldnt I still be allowed to ride there? NO!!! It doesnt work that way. But the indians can (or think they can) because we screwed over their great great grandfather over hundreds of years ago, doesnt seem fair.

[viper]

sounds like there was plenty reason for the shooting to me . sometimes i agree that these ( park ) rangers get a little carried away with playing barny fife but the only way to look at this is that a person tried to take a gun away from and probally use it on that cop..if that would have been someone that did the same thin to anyone of us it would be said that the person didnt do anything but protect themself .. and i would have done the same thing if i would have had that happin to me ..

as to the idiot that stated that this might bennefit somehow ..how in the world would someone getting killed bennifit your cause ?

as to the ( native americans ) i dont think screwed over is the proper term to use ....mabye stole from them , starved them , relocated them , slaughtered them and on and on ...this was there land not yours or your great great grandfather,s it was there,s so mabye thats why thay think the way thay do ......just my .02

it is a very bad deal that those people were shot BUT what else would you expect to happen if someone was attacking a cop and trying to take there weapon .................................................. viper

[Groundworx]

I haven't heard anything else about this. I have thought about it off and on since this thread first posted. I hadn't read what wolfguy posted until now. Sounds like the officers were in the right. If they really were out of thier jurisdiction, any decent lawyer could have gotten that straight without even trying. To grab a cop by the hair and beat thier head into the front of the ATV is just stupid. Especially doing it to a chick. If that thread that wolfguy posted is true, he deserved it.

As for the racial stuff, anytime a white cop shoots a minority, the media screams it was racially motivated. What if a black cop shot at a white man? You probably won't hear anything about race in that. The racial stuff is pretty played out now.

[Jim mac]

heck, here in AZ if a illegal throws a rock, the border patrol will shoot to kill, if its the national guards, they turn tail and run, and get a medal??? Try and figure that one out. Jim

[Tri-ZNate]

I think he was just covering his ass. 3 shots seems a little excessive for self defense, now if the kid was riding away I can see the officer shooting noumerous times

[WLL]

sorry im late, but i just found this. i want all the slave owners and people who took land from the american ingeens to speek up!!!! man it quiet round here.......... nuff said with that. why does it matter what he was riding?,its what he did that got him shot. maby it took 3 shots to stop him because the female ranger had a gun of small cal. indian blk white or whatever violent criminals are of all races, and the so called tribe is more like a bunch of violent gang bangers with guns, drugs and money. atv riders are not criminals, just some criminals ride atv's,boats,planes,cars and every thing else the world has to offer. im glad the ranger was not killed by the skumbag gang,because that would realy *edit* chit up fo us atv'rs

[The Goat]

we had an incident in BR not that long ago where a guy got out of his car when pulled over and proceeded to get in a fight with a cop...the cop was losing and the guy ends up with his gun...was screaming for help, and someone across the street pulls out a .45 and put five in the guys back and one in his head. according to the dashboard cam the guy never even slowed down until he finally caught a lethal shot.

try saying it was racial police brutality when they have the person on video and proof that because of drugs he just wasn't slowing down.