My 85 250R flat tracker, in the works.

[Billy Golightly]

Well Here it is guys, this is my current project. I bought this R and another from Lomax earlier this this month in anticipation of some possible flat track races I might be able to do locally. I've since found out I'm probably going to be limited to one track that isn't in the points series but atleast I'll be able to run with the big boys on the quads once in a while which is all I want. Anyways, Heres the thread from what the R looked like originally: http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showthread.php?t=54050&

So heres what I've done to it so far:

Removed original rear fenders and desert seat and replaced them with old Maier fenders and a ceet stock height seat.

Added #22 numbers to each side.

Installed Durablue lowering link for rear suspension.

Added 16inch Burris brand rear flat track tires.

Removed short springs from front forks.


I have a black short track tank and shrouds coming from Derrick Adams, a weld together 10inch front rim "kit" that I will be checking out and give everyone else a report on. That buffed dune tire and rim will come off and probably go on my 500. I bought a Duro HF247 to go on the front but it ended up being way more agressive then I thought, I dont think I an use it since the track requires that the tires be for actual flat tracking and not knobbies. I'll have to get an American Racer or Hoosier for the 10inch front. I also have a Motoplat ignition that has not been installed, and the IMS Roll Design foot pegs will be going on it also. In addition to that a Aussie Duner # plate will go on the front. I'm also gonna be replacing the rest of the really nice OEM plastics with Maiers so the original ones dont get beat up on the track. Its a decent start but its still got a long way to go before its setup right. I've spent what I think is a lot of timing setuping up the chassis on the 500 so I dont expect to get this thing right on the first try, and I'll probably play with different tires and stuff too. The engine on this bike is really peppy, it suprises me. Its a Paul turner motor with "national" porting which is mid range. I haven't cleaned anything up yet, but I will soon. I just want to get everything right first (or close to it)

In the distant future I'd like to get some nerf bars on it (Maybe some from the Missle Engineering guy) Maier flat track rear fenders, Paul turner or ESR pipe, new Carb, clamp on filter, new ultra turn tripple clamps I can make, aluminum swingarm, Pro-X cylinder, few other odds and ends but this is all later down the road. More pictures in the other posts below.

[Billy Golightly]

I forgot to mention above the oil under it IS NOT from it :lol:

[Billy Golightly]

Couple pictures of it and the 500 side by side. You'll notice that the bar and seat heights are relatively close to the same, but checkout the difference under the engine and where the engine itself is. This is the big difference between bike and trike frames, they are just made taller and even when you slam them down to the ground they are still relatively tall. The 500R has about 5 inches under the frame with me on it, and the 250R is around 9. Imagine how low the seat and bars would be if the R sat 5 inches from the ground. Big difference.

[deathman53]

I hope you are using 86 peg plates, ims/roll pegs won' fit on 85 plates.

[Billy Golightly]

Doh...Well the 85 plates are on here now but the other R, the 86 I guess would have the 86 style plates on it. Didn't know that. Thanks for the tip :)

[Bryan Raffa]

lookin good billy!!! missle nerfs!!!!!!

[edog]

DUDE,love the flat track 250R.

[Derrick Adams]

sweet project! received your letter yesterday. tank and shrouds are in route to florida first thing monday morning!

Oh hey, I know where there are some tracks for you to run at!:naughty:

Seriously, next year you need to plan a week up here. Our next outing after labor day puts us racing fair races on Wed and Thurs, then drags on Fri, flat track on Sat, and MX on Sunday. If that isn't good fun, I don't know what is!:Bounce

[Billy Golightly]

That would be very cool Derrick...it looks like we might be getting started on the track down here after all (after getting attorneys involved, grumble grumble) so maybe I'll have some money to make a trip up there and hang out. The time I'll have to salvage from somewheres :lol: Thanks for the tank and shrouds, Hopefully I'll be able to put them to good use.

[ChrisD]

Billy

Here is my intake....

[ATCR250R]

Looking good, I still love the 500R more tho.

[Dammit!]

Are you going to use it only on an oval track? You can turn the wheel around on your inside tire if so. It doesn't need to be wide on the inside and making it more narrow on that side lessens the possibility of that wheel getting tangled up with someone.

[firefirefire90]

thats sick Billy, what made you go with the 16"?

[Billy Golightly]

Ahhh, that is a good setup Chris. This actually has a K&N in it right now, I might be able to do the same thing. Thanks for the picture :)

[Derrick Adams]

Billy

Here is my intake....


Same one Brandon and Myself run!

[Billy Golightly]

Dammit, Theres also a D shape I might be on some but yeah I'll only be making left turns. I just wasnt sure how I would like the way it handled, I'll have to check it out and see.

I dunno on the tires fire. I think it was Harry in chat showed them to me a couple months ago and they were just kinda neat looking and really cheap (like $40 shipped if I remember right) and I had the money at the time so I just snagged em up to use them for a rainy day, and it rolled around quicker then I thought :)

Thanks for the comments guys. I just hope that by spending the time to build and set it up I'll be able to use it once in a while.

[firefirefire90]

what front tire will you be using? A Hoosier tire of the Duro H-247?

[Billy Golightly]

The Duro would be alot easier for me to use since I already have it. But I really do think its to agressive for the tracks. I'd hate to get there and have them tell me to stay off the track cause my tire will tear it up. We will see. Like I said I'd like to get one of those American Racers or Hoosiers but they only come in 18inch height from what I've seen and I don't know how close the end of the forks would be to hitting the ground then. Pretty close I imagine.

[LonesomeTriZ]

Damn man. Don't you ever get sick of messing with those trikes. ;)

[Billy Golightly]

Haha no, I dont. I think thats my problem. Your YTM is next :)

[LonesomeTriZ]

It sure is nice to talk with people who suffer from the same addictions.


I think we have it backwards though. aren't we suppose to hepl each other stop?

[Billy Golightly]

:lol: theres some shirt I seen a while back, I cant remember exactly how it was worded "I'm not an alocholic, I'm a drunk. Alcoholics are quitters." something similar to that applies to most of us here I think.

[LonesomeTriZ]

I think we need a T shirt with that and the 3WW logo. I would wher it. (when I am not whereing my rumble shirts any way)

Hey Billy. Are you seriously planning on racing that flat tracker? I am planning a biuld myself. but mine was going to be for display. If there is some where that we couls actually ride a flat track trike, i may have to rethink the biuld.

[Billy Golightly]

heck yeah I am...I'm kind of pissed that I started out thinking I was going to have a whole series to run in but its down to once track thats not even in the series now. I keep bugging the guys to let me know whether I can race with them or not at this other track...

[Billy Golightly]

Well I just got in from a quick little ride around the yard (3rd gear wide open sideways, weeeeee) I definetly have to get a shorter swingarm on this thing. It turns those little 16s like my 500 does the pro wedges, from a dead stop no traction till fourth gear :lol: Its also very easy to get yourself into a spin if your really sliding through a turn. I still can't believe how well the motor in this thing rips, I mean it really goes.

[HondaHarry]

looking good billy! the 500 and the 250R look good together. makes you realize just how big a 500 cylinder is huh? get some action shots, nothing quite like a pic of a flattracker fully sideways under power. :Bounce

[Yamaha Tri-Moto]

very sweet. I love those rear tires.

[LonesomeTriZ]

Hmmmm. I think I can see a new project in my future.

[Mike_Ham_250R]

Well I just got in from a quick little ride around the yard (3rd gear wide open sideways, weeeeee) I definetly have to get a shorter swingarm on this thing. It turns those little 16s like my 500 does the pro wedges, from a dead stop no traction till fourth gear :lol: Its also very easy to get yourself into a spin if your really sliding through a turn. I still can't believe how well the motor in this thing rips, I mean it really goes.
Can we see a picture of the area of grass you were perfroming this on? YTMboy wants to see it.

[NOS_350X]

I just rember i have a front hoosier that has a hole in it, just a little bigger than a pincle, It would be easy to patch If you wana try it pay for shipping.

[Billy Golightly]

I think I'm gonna order one of those hard surface tires from Dennis Kirk and hope its not like the Duro. Thanks though.

[Billy Golightly]

Well I ordered a new front tire from DK today and sent the Duro back. I hope the new one will be a little bit more low profile. I also received my wheel halves today. Check em out. After looking at them a little bit I've come to the conclusion that either Douglas makes the wheel halves for this company or it and Douglas both receive their stamped out pieces from the same company. This was a .125 rim as had been discussed, but it had a "blue label" on it. Interesting thats what Douglas calls their .125s. :wondering

Bad news is both my rear tires are leaking air...I'm gonna try and pull them off and see if I can find it. Maybe I can get away with patching it.

I'm also considering trying to switch to a 350x front end. CoeShow mentioned in his thread that he ran a 350X frontend with less rake then the 250R setup and it turned much easier. Might be worth trying.

[Pete]

let me know how that front rim goes Billy, you know Im in the market for a new one :)

[Billy Golightly]

Well guys, the rim is done. It welded together like butter, very nicely. The beads didn't really look that great because I could only go about 5 or 6 inches and then I had to stop and turn the wheel. Some type of gear reduction with an adjustable rheostat under my left foot while welding to turn the wheel would be bitchen but not quite a necessity yet :lol:

Orginally I was just going to make a template to fit the 1/2 hole inthe center and then I could put the wheel in the drill press to drill the mounting holes. I ended up just putting it in the mill and using the DRO to set the 170mm spacing. I drilled them 1/2 which is very very close to the size of the holes in the OEM Honda wheels. The Douglas ones are smaller because they are not setup for a tapered lug nut. I drilled these as close as I could to the OEM size so that I can use a tapered lug nut to help center it. I was also going to use a hole saw to cut the center hole out, but it ended up being a sort of oddball size of 5 and 5/16ths. So I used a 2 3/4 hole saw and used a boring head on the rest of it. Came out really nice I think.

The only screw up I had was the first hole I drilled for the valve stem to go into was right overtop of one of mounting holes :rolleyes: so I had to weld it back up (Smoothed out nice, can only tell where it was from a lack of polish in that spot) and I made a new one. The factory Honda and the douglas ones are angled a little bit but that would be a *Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited* to drill...so I just put it in further and flat. I think it will work ok.

I did also of course have to cut down the hub. I just chucked it up in the lathe and ran a live center tailstock into the bearing where the axle goes through to center it up. Made a couple cuts and it fit in the wheel perfectly.

My Cost: $98 (shipping included) for the wheel halves. One and a half TIG rods. Valve stem.
My Time: Week and a half.

Douglas cost: $130
Douglas Time: 3 months.


I had made arrangements with the guy at REAL (company I got the halves from) to do a bulk of these...If anyone is interested PM for details. I will make a new thread about the wheels soon I think. We need atleast 10 complete wheels to get the bulk pricing, otherwise its about the same as Douglas, but the turn around time is still a ton quicker.

[NewOldSchool]

nice....need to get me one

[edog]

Billy we want action pics?

[Bryan Raffa]

Looks good billy i see you went with that tire..I think thats a better choice.

[Billy Golightly]

Well if all my parts come in and I get it together I will be showing up semi unanouced at a race on the 23rd of this month and hoping they will let me run. Doubt I'll be able to get pictures of me riding though :P

[Billy Golightly]

And yeah raffa...I think thats alot better then that other one I had. This still has tread but not near as much. Only thing is it doesnt have a whole lot of a rounded profile. Be interesting to see how it works. Have you got your rears in that tread pattern yet?

[Bryan Raffa]

no i havent maybe this winter, just going to stick to dirt for the rest of this season and then some asphalt next spring/summer.

[firefirefire90]

looks good billy, if an engine finally fits in the R i will be going your route. One question though, are you doing the durablue lowering link? It looks low, but it can always be lower. Thanks

[Billy Golightly]

Yeah it has the durablue lowering link now. ChrisD and I talked about it a little bit and if someone was the machine a new longer middle piece that is threaded, you could make it go even lower. I need to pick up some aluminum hex stock and get on that.

[Billy Golightly]

Well its almost done... I have a few more things to tweak (take a little bit more off the front brake caliper to clear). And some bad news...I think my wheel is out of round :crying: I'll have to check more indepth tomorrow. I also tried a little experiment with running ATF in the transmission...It vibrates a ton more, almost as much as my Z :eek: I'm probably going to drain it and put 10w30 back in it. Still can't get the rear tires to hold air... and I need to polish the rims back up. Getting closer. Got a little over a week of time left.

[Billy Golightly]

Last picture, hopefully this is all anyone will see :lol:


I also forgot to mention...I need to stiffen up the rear shock a little bit, or perhaps let some oil out of the front forks to soften them up. It rides a little chopperish now even with the 21inch front tire.

[Mike_Ham_250R]

*Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**Edited**E dited* sweet.

[Bryan Raffa]

#22.... what you built that for moshman? LMAO! hey i tryed ATF in the 490 and i know what you mean! switched to 80w belray..but i basicly used it to flush the motor for the first run.

[Billy Golightly]

Haha at Trikefest he told me I had his #s...I've used 22 since back in 02 or 03 when I ran harescrambles on my TRX.

[Bryan Raffa]

thats funny stuff! Where's the missle nerfs?????:naughty:

[Billy Golightly]

Haha I gotta save up some money first before I buy those :lol: These things are kinda spendy ya know!

[Psychotrike9]

are those stock radiators on that 500r?

[JohnR.]

The trike looks GREAT! You are really fortunate to have tracks that will allow you to run a 3 wheeler down there. When I was running my TRX at a flat track up here the guy didn't even like the fact that my 350x was inside the trailer. Anyway, what front tire is it that you have on in this pic:

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33135&d=1158104831

Thanks.

John

[Billy Golightly]

Psychotrike9, Yeah those are the CR500 radiators,tank,frame,engine, ect. Front end is 85 250R, so is the seat and front fender. Subframe I made out of aluminum square tubing, the swingarm is custom made by laegers to fit the CR frame.

hey JohnR, I changed my nickname, but you probably remember me as HondaATC...good to see you back on here since its been a while. That front tire is a "Duro" brand DI2019 which you can purchase here: http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=652928&store=Main&catId=&productId=p652928&leafCatId=&mmyId=

I had started building this thing under the impression that I could race an entire series with some quad guys, but it has turned out their main track they race at wont let me down there because of insurance purposes. Theres an "away" race tht is just down the road from my house at a cart track next weekend. I've asked whether its ok for me to come or not and havne't really got a straight answer so I'm just gonna load it in my trailer and show up. I guess the worst they can tell me is to go home. I WILL find somewhere to race it if I have to drive 6 hours to get there though :) Are you still ice racing with ChrisD any?

[JohnR.]

hey JohnR, I changed my nickname, but you probably remember me as HondaATC...good to see you back on here since its been a while. That front tire is a "Duro" brand DI2019 which you can purchase here: http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=652928&store=Main&catId=&productId=p652928&leafCatId=&mmyId= Are you still ice racing with ChrisD any?

Cool! I definitely remember you under your "old" name. How have you been? I haven't been around that much anymore. I'm older and busier now, wife, 3 year old daughter (almost 4), newborn baby boy :beer , a house, and work takes up too much time. I still ice race with ChrisD in the winter but last winter the lake never froze so we were all out of luck. I keep saying I'm going to pop a set of my Hoosiers from the TRX onto the ice racer and ride it around at least a little bit. That front Duro looks like it may be a nice match for the Hoosiers out back. Maybe coming back here more often will inspire me to ride it. I just picked up an ATC70 for my daughter, she's doing really well on that "power wheels" electric quad so I think she can handle the 70. Now all I need to do is get it running. I actually met Tri-Z Jim last winter at the local indoor flat track races. We got to talk for a minute but I had quite a few beers in me and it was the end of the night. Funny how you meet people from here. I guess he recognized my old HondaLine ATC riding jersey.

John

[Billy Golightly]

I've been pretty good...been in the process of trying to open up a MX track/riding park down here and getting shafted every step of the way by the local government but thats a whole nother issue haha.

This Duro seems like a good tire, the trick is though you have to convert over to a 10inch from rim from the 11. I actually bought 2 halves from a company and welded, drilled, machined them myself instead of paying Douglas $130 and waiting 3 months to get them.

Theres talk of putting together an informal short track race at Trikefest this coming year...you and ChrisD ought to hook up with some of the other New Yorker's and make a showing :)

[SYKO]

billy Did you talk to Dale at the cart track here in Valdosta?

[Billy Golightly]

Na not yet. If things dont pan out with the Jasper track I'll definetly try and get a hold of him...

[SYKO]

ok I thought that was the track you were talking about, Cuz I dont think dale woul deven care if they raced power wheels out there

[Billy Golightly]

Hahaha well thats good to know...atleast I know I've got a good chance of running somewheres.

[JohnR.]

the trick is though you have to convert over to a 10inch from rim from the 11.


Yup, I already did that back in 1999 when Douglas was still selling them pretty cheap. It was about $60 or $70 for it. I should've bought two of them.

John

[Billy Golightly]

Ahh, haha good move.

Well I just got back in from riding mine around some more and both of my brakes are dragging...front one is really bad for some reason. Burnt me when I touched the disc :( That and my cut airbox fell off the boot from lack of support I guess. I left one mount on it and had it hooked to the frame on the other end but I guess that wasnt enough. Back to the drawing board on that.

[Lomax]

Glad to see you getting some use out of the 250's. did you ever get the water pump figured out on the flatracker?.

[Billy Golightly]

Yup. Put a new mechanical seal in yesterday and put it all back together, no leaks so far.

[JohnR.]

If you get a piece of (3"?) PVC pipe or maybe a (3"?) coupler you can just put it into the stock boot and then put the air filter on it. That's the way ChrisD and I have ours and we've been running them for years that way. Personally, I've never had mine fall off with it that way. I even have some extra here from when I did mine if you want it. I think you can also put a TRX250R filter on it for some better breathing. I wish there was a better way to route it but there isn't much room to run it between the frame and the shock.

John

[84honda200s]

man thats one kick ass ride. i like it good job man looks sweet.

[Mosh]

i like the short tracker billy.however.the number 22 thing,hmmm. maybe i will have to earn it from you on the the mx track next year???or i can go back to my old stand by number.

[Billy Golightly]

well I could add another one to be the tripple duece, but I ran out of room :lol:

[Mosh]

Maybe i should make mine say 310 or 0:lol:

[Jeb]

Love the flat-tracker R Billy! :beer

I was trying to imagine those tires on my Z when it's lowered. :Bounce :TrikesOwn

[BigGreenMachine]

Jeb, I want your Tri-Z!

James

[ATC-Eric]

Nice flat tracker!

and,

That is one hot Z!

[Billy Golightly]

Well the carb tuning issue I had turned out to be a bad crankseal. Once I found out I was losing trans oil I knew thats what it was. Luckily I happened to have an oil seal kit here I had almost forgotten about and I pulled the old one out and put in the new one this afternoon. I also put on the Hinson clutch basket I got from Will when I got both of the Rs. The pressure plate was different where it is pushed on from the acuator rod so I used the stock one.

The hub, haha oh man is it on its last leg I gotta get a new one. When I pulled it apart it had 3 metric hex bolts, a standard hex, and and a standard allen head holding the springs down. One of the remaining metric bolts pulled the threads out of its spot while I was putting it back together. I ended up getting a longer metric allen head bolt that some miracously was holding when I put the cover back on. I guess it was able to reach down to the bottom where there were still some good threads left. I put loctite on it as a safety precaution but in reality it is probably only worth making me feel good about it. Just a couple days left to the race...

[JohnR.]

Check out the hub update kit that Honda makes. Nac's sells them and they come with all the parts to update to the 1989 TRX type set up.

John

[Pete]

anyone have the part number for the 89 update? I used to have it but lost it

[JohnR.]

If you can't find it on Nac's web-site then LMK and I'll post it for you tonight.

John

[Pete]

06220-HB9-305 was posted for me in another thread.