I dont get it?!

[super90]

To sum it up my friends nearly stock 84 200x smokes my modified 86.

I still cant understand why his 84 is so much faster than my 86 is, his 84 has a DG pipe and thats all. The clutch slips alot and his top end is blown and smokes ALOT, but yet it can still blow by mine? Mine has a custom procircuit exhaust, K&N filer, 15/38 gearing with 20'' tires and maybe some engine mods, im not sure. Everyone says the 86s are faster than the older model 200xs but i guess not? With the stock gearing and 22s it was very very slow, alot slower than I though, so i got 20s and a 15 tooth front sprocket which helped alot but its still suprisingly slow, so with 22'' tires the 15 would only equal a 14 tooth.

Today he was ahead of me on a very very dusty dirt road and I got sick of it because he was doing it on purpous, so on the way back I decided to dust him and pulled out of a trail and he was nowhere in sight so I just hammerd it down this long downhill dirt road. I was seriously pinned in 6th WOT and he passed me with ease.

I dont understand it? My X engine runs great, clutch is brand new, no smoke and has tons of power for a 200, but yet it gets blow away by a worn engine with low compression? Could there be anything done to this engine that would make it slower such as a low end cam or some other mod that I dont know of?

[erectordale]

my 87 200x is stock and I consider it slow there is a lot of little things that make them faster . my stepson's 86 200x with a fresh motor will blow by it with ease the 87 runs great runs but low on compression

[bigreddaddy]

That is what we need to know first, what your compression is.

[super90]

Thats a good question, I will get back to you on that when i can find a meter.

[bigreddaddy]

You can get a tester from an auto parts store for $15 or $20. Well worth the investment.

[84honda200s]

are you sure your friend isnt telling you all the mods ? maybe he had it bored out and some port work and stuff done. you know mods that cant be seen.

[3leggeddog]

heres my exoerience.some motors just flat out rip for no apparent reason.i had a 250r motor i bought of ebay.no port work,had a big carb,reeds,and a pt high rev pipe.absolutly ripped.it was unreal,when they get loose sometimes the run really strong for a short time.it's like the perfect storm,you find that tune,and man,things really run

[super90]

To tell you the truth, I dont think he even knows. The thing has sat since the origional owner bought it in 84', then he sold it to my friend for $550.00. Its in really good shape considering how old it is. It possibly could have engine work done, but I doubt it since hes about even with a stock 250ex and can keep up with a 300 pretty good. I can keep up to 300exs but just barely. My X has great accelleration but lacks the top end and it just dosent seem right, so ill get a compression gauge tomorrow and well go from there. Thanks :beer

[Twilight]

I was wondering why you said the 200x barely goes 10mph in first gear. This time I made sure today by going against my truck, and in first gear I was hitting around 20-21mph.

I have to agree with the above poster. One of my FL250's went almost 20mph and was never used since 1983, but my own that I have had since 1997 that was always abused and beat, went up to 35mph *speedometer on that one* Could never understand why, just went with it.

Also my FL350, can out run a FL400 pilot and even one of the older Drakarts... its odd, I have never done anything but put a watercooled head on any of my machines.

Go fig :lol:

[200x350xtriz250]

I doubt it since hes about even with a stock 250ex and can keep up with a 300 pretty good. I can keep up to 300exs but just barely.

I could be wrong, but isn't a 300ex faster than a 250ex? if you can keep up with a 300ex and your friend a 250ex, doesn't that make you faster by default? :wondering
I agree with 3leggeddog some motors are just fast...I've owned 3 350x's and the first one I had had more power, torque, and speed than the other 2. when I took it apart to rebuild the top end there were no additional mods...put back together and it still ripped better than the other 2...no good reason:wondering :confused:

[ratvespa]

is his faster all thw way around? top speed and accell?
other question...and now to sound rude by asking..do you weigh more than him? a act70 with a midget on it is going to go faster than a atc70 with my big arse on it.

also, are you sure you got your jetting dialed in?
you could always invest in one of these goodies
http://www.daytona-sensors.com/WEGO2.html

http://www.daytona-sensors.com/WEGO2a.jpg

they are killer for getting the carb dialed in

the data logging software is also really good, I use it to dial in the harley trikes I work on. only downside is you got to weld in a 02 sensor bung onto your pipe.

[riverrat]

Another thing that never seems to get mentioned around here when talking about speed of these machines is the tires, and tire pressure.

Adding some tire pressure can be a night and day thing as far as speed goes. But too much pressure, then you loose some grip.

For instance, on my 110, I had the original tires with 2 lbs of air in it. The brakes haven't worked on this trike for years, I never needed them, because as soon as I let go of the gas, and maybe tilt the thing a little, she would stop on a dime. Top speed was maybe 35? 3rd gear winded out, and sometimes into 4th. (in high range)

I put some new tires on it, and now I can't stop, and she winds out to 4th gear, and probably can hit 45, a 10mph difference. The new tires have 8 pounds of pressure (which is too much, cause now I don't have any suspension.) But I am just telling the story to show a point of how much tire pressure, and tire design can make on speed of a trike. These ATV tires when under inflated have tremendous rolling resistance. Also the hardness of the rubber can have something to do with it, as well.

Also like the other guy said, weight of the rider has a lot to do with it also.

[super90]

Alright, as for weight. He weighs around 230, not a lightweight, I weigh 175. His tires are the origional pro vector balloon tires and mine are stock 400ex radials. I run around 25 psi in all my tires usually unless im going on a real rocky trail that needs some extra cushsion. As for the 300ex, I mean that I can keep up in accelleration. I never rode with a 300 wide open anywhere but im guessing I couldnt keep up for long after mid range. His is faster mostly on top end but if his clutch didnt slip I wouldnt doubt accelleration also. I did consider all the things but really it just dosent add up. I even put some stock 22'' balloon tires off of my 110 on it and it couldnt pull 6th gear, then he still creeps by.

[BigGreenMachine]

Did you jet the carb for the pipe and filter? Airbox lid on or off?

[super90]

I think it was already jetted before with the cobra, because when I put the stocker back on it ran horrible. But it could possibly be the jetting. What are the stock jet sizes for the 86 200x?

[84honda200s]

108 main jet, air fuel screw 2 1/4 turns out, and the needle needs to be set on the 4th groove. the float needs to be set at 0.55 of an inch.

[RedRider_AK]

For instance, on my 110, I had the original tires with 2 lbs of air in it. The brakes haven't worked on this trike for years, I never needed them, because as soon as I let go of the gas, and maybe tilt the thing a little, she would stop on a dime. Top speed was maybe 35? 3rd gear winded out, and sometimes into 4th. (in high range)

I put some new tires on it, and now I can't stop, and she winds out to 4th gear, and probably can hit 45, a 10mph difference. The new tires have 8 pounds of pressure (which is too much, cause now I don't have any suspension.) But I am just telling the story to show a point of how much tire pressure, and tire design can make on speed of a trike. These ATV tires when under inflated have tremendous rolling resistance. Also the hardness of the rubber can have something to do with it, as well.


I totally back this up with my experience. My ATC70/110 project has a flat front tire, and no brakes, but you don't even need them on it. It'll slow down instantly when you let off the gas, because the flat front tire takes so much muscle to roll.

[super90]

Thats for the info on the jets, I will look into getting some tools tomorrow to see what going on. I forgot today was sunday and all the auto shops are closed. Your right about the tires though! Today I cleaned the air filter, put some pressure in the tires and drilled a few 3/8 holes in the airbox lid and took it up a fairly steep incline. It definatly has alot more power and speed now. I still didnt ride with the other guy again yet, I will tomorrow and see how much difference this made.

[BigRedRunner]

Alright, as for weight. He weighs around 230, not a lightweight, I weigh 175. His tires are the origional pro vector balloon tires and mine are stock 400ex radials. I run around 25 psi in all my tires usually unless im going on a real rocky trail that needs some extra cushsion. As for the 300ex, I mean that I can keep up in accelleration. I never rode with a 300 wide open anywhere but im guessing I couldnt keep up for long after mid range. His is faster mostly on top end but if his clutch didnt slip I wouldnt doubt accelleration also. I did consider all the things but really it just dosent add up. I even put some stock 22'' balloon tires off of my 110 on it and it couldnt pull 6th gear, then he still creeps by.


25psi?!?! :confused:

[super90]

Thats nothing, Half the time I fill the compressor to 50. Never had a tire blow yet, but usually on rocky trails i only use 5 psi

[ProCarbine2k1]

108 main jet, air fuel screw 2 1/4 turns out, and the needle needs to be set on the 4th groove. the float needs to be set at 0.55 of an inch.

Where did you get the info? My rebuild kit came with a 112 but you may be correct... BTW there is no exact setting of the air screw, it needs to be dialed in according to the climate/ weather. You wanna talk about running rich? My 86 had a pea shooter off of a streetbike on it, and was jetted at a 123 main :w00t: :w00t: .
BTW super90, run about 8 lbs front and 6 in the back and see if you dont get better results. You may have not blown a tire yet, but I would never run that much air in my tires. Just a suggestion............

[gotballs 250r 82]

IT dont matter a 250r 81/84 will pretty much smoke any 200. Maybe not to one that has big bore kit and ported out. But stock to stock or some mods 250r wins hands down. Get a 250r you will be happy with it.:twisted:

[super90]

Yeah i wish... Im about sick of this thing. Few minuted ago chain popped and wedged between the swingarm and sprocket. Rolled down a hill and scraped my arm and chest all up. Yesterday broke the clutch because the thing lost alot of compression so 1st gear going down a hill is going pretty fast with no engine resistance (could be why its slow too) So it was going for a big rocky hill. So I could go down a steep rock hill and hit trees or down a bigger hill with more trees. So i bailed and tipped it before it went off the hills. Just broke the lever. Today there was no damage except for myself. But i would rather have a 450r than a 250r, theres no doubt there more stable. I never had much luck for 2 strokes either. But now im stuck with a 200x so im happy. It never got me stranded anywhere but a few yards from my house.

[BigGreenMachine]

Probably so lean that it melted a hole in the piston.

[super90]

I dont know could be? But the thing used to backfire a ton and the plug would always smell like gas. I always thought it was rich but not i got it to stop backfiring.

[bigreddaddy]

Once you know the compression you can go from there. I do think your main problems are probably tuning. You need to know what size jets you have to be able to tune it correctly. Once it is tuned right it will feel like a new machine.

[Twilight]

super90, my jets on the 200x were set for a high altitude and trust me, it was hell until i looked at it, mine backfired and took 4-5 HARD kicks to start. Now that I adjusted a few notches, it runs good *on exception of the throttle cable not moving by itself...lol, starts nice and easy on first or second kick. I blew my 250 engine because I never adjusted it right... so now I make sure.

[super90]

Im not really even sure what my jet sizes are now. I didnt take the carb off yet to see. But it usually starts with 1 kick cold, except in the winter but it will with full choke.

[84honda200s]

wat exhaust u got ? wats all your mods ? name it all then i may be more of a help to you.

[super90]

pro circuit t4 with cobra header, K&N filter, drilled airbox lid that helped backfiring, thats basically all engine wise.

[Noah]

I thought I'd pop in here real quick.... Im about to rebuild my carb and have stripped it down to find that the thing was missing some pieces and the thing was so rusty as to be almost worthless, have cleaned everything up however...does anyone have a carb guide that is a bit more useful than the 83-85 shop manual?
this thing doesnt tell you much about how to tune a carb!

[200x350xtriz250]

this is out of the Honda service manual: on the side of your carb there should be a stamp with letters and #'s(should be pd64a a or pd 64 b or c. if it is pd64a a the main jet is #122, if it is pd64a b or c main is #112. slow jet is #35 - for a, b, or c. jet needle - 2nd groove from top for a, 3rd groove for b or c. pilot screw initial - 2 turns out.
high altitude above 5000ft - main #115 for a, #108 for b or c. pilot screw 1/4 in from original position.
I have a rcm exhaust, uni filter, bored .02 over, still use air box lid and went 2 sizes up on the main and moved the needle clip 1 position and that has worked great for me.
the top section info came right out of my 86 Honda service manual pages 4-1 to 4-10.

[Dirtcrasher]

I have 2 86 200X's. One has a newer rebuild and it flys. The other is tired but still runs like a top. The better of the 2 blows the doors off of the tired one...

[super90]

So what would it cost to get a full rebuild? What all needs to be replaced? Poston sleeve and valves?

[Dirtcrasher]

Any tired motor needs a new piston,rings etc and a bore job. Most 4 strokes need valves and if there noisy, the cam and rockers may be bad along with the cam journals in the head themselves. If it has that many hours then the timing chain and gears need to be changed also.

Sad to tell you that a cheap rebuild will cost you about 200$ and a more indepth rebuild another 300$ or more and thats if you do the work.....

The problem is that lots of people don't do it right, they buy 80% of the parts and reuse a worn or scored rocker arm shaft or decide the head cam journals are "OK". Not too far down the road it will be noisy and losing power again.

Do it once and do it right....

[bigreddaddy]

Go buy or borrow a COMPRESSION TESTER. Once you know what your compression is you can go from there. Why go for a rebuild if it doesn't need one?

[super90]

Thats would im going to do, I was just getting an idea of what WOULD need to be done if it is blown. I check all the local stores and am going to travel to the next town and see of napa or autozone will have one.

[Tri-Z 250]

15/38 ? What about switchin to a 14t you'll gain on the top end for $16bucks. Big carbs, open air boxs, race cams, you have to be jetted corectly(pull the plug/ brown paper bag)... tire size and gearing play a larger role in how your motor will perform in drag racing. Large trail tires....slow the motor on the bottom, so you loose quickness. Which is a good thing in the mudd to put more usable power to the ground. You do gain topend...which depending on the drag may work against you. Having the fastest bike across flat plains won't get you too far in the woods. In the riding I do roll on power plays the biggest role. I need to loft the front wheel on demand at speed. I use 3rd gear as my sweet spot in the tranny....If I can come out of a turn and light the motor or blaze the trail and pull the front end. Thats where I put the gearing/tire size to motor output on feel. I do run a taller (6ply) tire because of rocks and deep ruts. Even the weight of a tire could effect speed. Have you checked the stop screw on you thumb yet?

[Erics350x]

Adjust the valves, clean the air filter(dont over oil), and rejet your carb.
Also make sure youre not running your chain too tight.
Did you get those compression numbers?

[super90]

Well a 15 tooth front sprocket will give you more top end speed than a 14 tooth, and 15 is the biggest front sprocket a 200x can fit. Big trail tires will also give you more top speed. I cant pull 22s in 6th gear without bogging some. I dont have a thumb throttle, i have a motion pro twist. Im going to get a comression gauge today. Well see how it comes out.

[scooterroo]

my 85 would smoke my dads 86 no problem. ripping thru all the gears as well. i have always thought the 83-85 version was faster the the 86-87, even with the extra gear. just my opinion though.

[Erics350x]

no way a 83-85 could ever come close to my 87.
Are you sure your throttle is opening all the way?
Have you tried a stock size sprocket?

[Daddio]

What about gearing? That is also pretty important when it comes to top speed.

[super90]

i have a 15 tooth, that is bigger, meanings more speed. Bigger front, smaller back = speed. Smaller front, bigger rear = power. I have it setup for more speed. Stock sprocket is a 13 and its stupidly slow. But today I did notice that it is smoking blueish white, also black at open throttle. Yeah its denfinatly topped out, I had the thing going wide open for about a mile and it was WIDE OPEN. As far as it could possibly be opened. But they had to order the compression tester. It was $15.00 and will be here friday.

[Erics350x]

What i meant by making sure the trottle is opening all the way was looking in the carb to see if the slider is being pulled all the way up.
But if its starting to smoke youre prolly low on compression.

You are going to need an adapter for you size sparkplug hole.
Most testers only come with 14 and 16mm adapters and i think yours is 12mm.
Im not 100 percent sure on this but you prolly need to check.

[super90]

Well I just checked again, I couldnt really see outside when it was light. But now when its fully revved its black smoke. Running rich I guess. But yeah I was wondering about that, where would I get an adaptor for it? Im pretty sure its a 12 also.

The slide is sliding the whole way up. I made sure of that, Last time I had it revving scarry high. I wish it had some kind of limited so I wouldnt blow it up when the throttle sticks WOT.

[RedRider_AK]

Sounds like your 200X needs a lot of TLC...

Have you got a compression tester yet?

[super90]

Yeah you could say that... Ive already put near $900 into it, bought it for 200. It was a great deal and was in exceptional shape for $200. But alot of little things needed replaced and fixed. If anything major is wrong with the engine its getting parted or sold. I cant keep fixing everything that breaks or wears out. So far i fixed or replaced: Tires, plastic, clutch, seat cover, forks, clutch lever, throttle, handle bars, exhaust, bearings (gone already, in a rad carrier), sprockets, chain, shock bushings, air filter, hubs, axle, a couple motor mounts, pegs, skid plate, intake boot, fork seals, front wheel bearings. And its nowhere near close to being pretty. :cry:

[bigreddaddy]

Did you check the compression yet?

[rally4x4racer]

pull the spark plug and put a marble on the plug hole. if the marble launches two foot vertically when you kick it - your compression is good. :eek: