View Full Version : Turbo/Supercharger Possible?????

11-12-2007, 07:49 PM
I've thought back to the fifties with this one, and because I have the resources. Back when to make power, before aftermarket, you built it. But I was hoping some of you have thrown this idea around. Is a supercharger or turbo a plausable theme to trikes? I've done up various sketchs, drafts, and ideas. (If you haven't guessed, I want to go into engineering after highschool.)

Anyway, I was looking at my junker and thinking of go fast goodies. I've got resources to a full welding/machine shop at the college. Then the thought hit me to make a little super/turbo charger. Not getting one off a car, but making a scaled version to my motor. The 246cc has a compression to 9:1 so it has a chance of success with a super/turbo without blowing a piston, gasket, or eating anything. Or, I could be crazy...:crazy:

In my other post, 1985 Honda ATC 250ES, you get the idea. Proposing that taking off the electic start, and relying on kickstarting, I'll have a mounting position for whatever. For the supercharger, I could weld the cog to the magnetic wheel that goes to the alternator (cog for electic starts). Or drill and bolt the cog to the wheel so I don't disturb the magnet. This would, theoritically, give a power source for the supercharger; which would be spinning off the gears and crank that would normally start the engine. And, of course, the supercharger would be relative to engine speed like an actucal supercharger. Machine a turbine and use the starter case for a layout to power the turbine. And direct the discharge to the carb and jet more fuel for the added air. Sounds sound right?

For the turbo, change the powersource from mechanical to air velocity. Machine up a two turbine housings, two turbines, and fab up the plumping. Cannibalize a pressure relief valve off some puny air gadget and blowback valve from a regulator. There will be some tweaking to get the bugs out.

Even though the turbo sounds easier, well shorter, I'm opting to go for the supercharger. No turbo lag, less mechanical failure, and should be easier to make. I'm thinking of going the roots style with this one. Since cannibalizing the gear/mounts from the starter, to a custom built box with 1/2" to 1" inlet/outlet. Should be easier to make.

But I'm done ranting on because probably you think I'm insane, and it can't be done. But dammit! I'm at least gonna try...and I know better to make it and mount it. Tests will be done off the motor to see how much boost, pressure, noise, and how functional it will be before mounting it to the motor. I'm hoping 30-60% power gains. So if that's the case I'm sticking to the differential then chain driven.

Thoughts? Questions?

P.S. I hoping to going into custom work after school. After graduation back to trade/vocational school with A.S. in Pre-Engineering, Welding, and Machine Operator (Basics, Advanced, and CNC). So if all goes well with this I should hopefully, be building and selling these in New Products R&D.

11-12-2007, 08:12 PM
do a search a member here put a turbo on a 200es and it was stupid, it roosted like a banshee! but the tans llimited its over all top speed, but very cool non the less.

11-12-2007, 09:47 PM
Well I've got some crazy, but practical ideas I've been throwing around. I've looked and found my space to work with is 5"long, 7"wide. and 6"tall without any clearance issues. I've got some pics to show what I'm trying to do, but just to get an idea.

Top speed, ay? Might as well get a good final transmission and rear gear for top speed.

11-12-2007, 11:48 PM
Sorry for the double post but after hours of searching I have found the answer. Now just to find mounting locations, where to place the tubes, and to build it. As you can see, with the a solid block I could machine out the housing, and then whip up the other parts. The design for the harley also can be adapted to work using the head bolts for mounts and my source from the electric starter. Hmm....but instead of being out in the open, I could tuck it behind the bucket and make using frame/motor mounts and starter drive easier.

11-13-2007, 12:00 AM
hmm, a turbo would be infinitely easier, unless you know how to fabricate a supercharger from scratch. its definitely a cool idea, and it will work, if it is done properly.

i would think building a supercharger would be a pain, same with a turbo. i would go with something already made, if possible.

11-13-2007, 12:10 AM

A few videos of turbo quads. Wouldnt be all that hard to do... put a 400EX carb on a 350X, put a little civic turbo on... Would be niffty:lol:

11-13-2007, 12:58 AM
garret gt12 same turbo would be perfect.

11-13-2007, 03:24 AM
My confession is that I have no money, but material at the shops are free for me. Thank you Kentucky Education, for giving over 2000 dollars of school for free. But as I've been throwing the ideas around, machining a supercharger from scratch is something I'll have to do in the future. So, in the mean time I've got my old air compressor from the A/C out of the El Camino. After removing the pulley and balancing weight, it's relatively light. The pulley and what not takes up almost at or over the total weight.

I took the pump, because what is a supercharger, or engine for that matter? Just an air pump, and a supercharger gives a bigger compressed chunk of air. I hooked it up, attached the air block on the back amd took the drill to it. After clamping the drill (so it wouldn't spin off the drive) I hooked the compression tester to it and gave a go. With a tiny leak, I got a little over 60psi....hmmm, so with the leak probably 65psi. I know, I know, too much boost, right?

Unless running a super modified dragster, 65psi through a 1/4" line is quite low. On the plus side the motor wouldn't have trouble spinning the compressor, so the power loss to the gain is acceptable. I'm thinking, not visually appealing, it is meant to do what I want it to. Make power. So 65psi through a 1/4" line and I have to adapt it to a 1" intake inlet. It's not right but 65 divided by 3 is 21.6. But air acts differently so I'm hoping a nice 1/4" rapidly widening to a 1" will give me a nice, driveable boost.

The Big Red made 168psi in normal compression, plus the boost. Probably making 180+ in compression. Hopefully more power and not a blown gasket/motor.

11-13-2007, 08:50 AM
65psi dead-headed against a gauge offers no indication of flow whatsoever... I can picture that A/C pump quickly becoming a new restriction in your intake tract... Better see what kind of cfm flow it is capable of, and how fast it can be efficiently driven before wasting any time trying to mount or drive it.... Do you plan to draw through the carb? or blow through? If you plan to draw through be sure your "pump" has seals that are compatible with fuel...

The Goat
11-14-2007, 01:37 AM
i was tossing around the idea of a mild forced induction system the other day. just looking at the electric turbos and the advancements they have made with them got me thinking

my idea was more...what if you had four or five small fans all in a line in the pipe running from your airbox to carb. put a switch inside your throttle on the bars so that the fans only come on at WOT.

at wide open throttle...fans kick on. 1 alone not that impressive, all in a line, possibility for some velocity.

they force the air into the carb...and voila? right? or am i an idiot.

one thing is it would be a downright pain to tune the carb.

11-14-2007, 01:51 AM
Any ideas are welcome. The Goat, I like the moto, 'Just crazy enough to work'.:D To cr480r I thought about charging the air from the carb, then shooting it to the intake inlet. Would utilize the atmospheric properties and draw of the carb then compress it into a denser chunk before being compressed again by the motor. Air and fuel being compressed would hopefully aviod full out re-jetting. Maybe a little tune but air/fuel (as it would before going into the motor), precompressed, and then sending it to the motor. I really hope that the A/F ratio isn't messed up too bad. It spun fairly easy without the heavy pulley and weight attached to it. And I'm guessing that old drill didn't get over 1200RPM which I'm sure as hell hoping my motor can push more RPMS. It's like a little air compressor with four tiny pistions attached to a tiny crank. The air is compressed over four smaller pistons. Plus the crank being very small, would turn faster then the motor. Adapating that gear from the starter might gain a few more hundred RPM. I'll just see, but the way I'm seeing it, it's very, very plausable.

Plus I got some heavier valve springs that should fit in place of my old ones. Same diameter, length, but these take a little more to compress. Still sound crazy?? I might win crazy ass back yard built supercharger award and start using premium. Or I'll have three hundred pieces of motor to fit back together as a puzzle in my spare time.

11-14-2007, 04:24 AM
Jetting should be the least of your concerns at this point... I would focus on testing the flow potential and durability of your compressor... How do you know that it can flow enough air to keep up? let alone provide any gains...What is the optimal drive speed for efficiency? How do you know what drive ratio to use on it? Are you just gonna guess or hope to get lucky? Just because it can move and compress air does not mean it can effectively supercharge an engine... boost is a measurement of restriction to flow... it means more air is being supplied than can be used... providing a positive manifold pressure... the supercharger must provide more cfm of flow than the engine alone can move to provide any gains... I would hate to see you invest alot of time and fabrication into this without knowing that it will even work...

11-14-2007, 03:54 PM
Hmm...good point, I like people to point out flaws so I can improve. Okay, say, it couldn't, directly hooked up, flow enough. So now, I'm thinking, like a vaccuum reserve. So if it couldn't directly supply enough air, how about building a reserve box? After kick starting to build up the pressure, it would flow into the box, which would hold a gallon or so. So when the pressure and flow would be built up enough it would start. The compressor would spin faster than the motor, so it should fill the box enough to supply enough compressed flow for the intake stroke. Or intead of a box just make the A/C reserve work. So intead of little flow directly, starving the motor, it would keep a reserve to fill with plenty of already compressed A/F and then have cycle's after that to fill back up. Any more kinks?

Billy Golightly
11-14-2007, 05:46 PM
Turbocharging would be much easier...especially since its going to be on a 4 stroke. I've done some pretty extensive research into this, the 2 most helpful books are Corky Bell's "Maximum Boost" and Joe Haile's "Motorcycle Turbocharging, Super Charging, & Nitrous Oxide". You'll be able to read compressor maps and know exactly what your motor will or wont require. It covers all the different ways of doing it such as draw through and blow through turbo setups, roots and whipple style super chargers, and the ups and downs of all the options you have. It also covers how to deal with pressurized carbs when your using blow through setups, intercooled, non-intercooled, etc. Extremely informative and if your serious about doing this project then the $50 on spent on those 2 books would be a worthwhile investment IMO.

11-14-2007, 07:12 PM
Any more kinks?

:lol: good luck with this man...

11-15-2007, 05:10 PM
check out these, maybe they can help you.

11-16-2007, 07:00 AM
check out these, maybe they can help you.

That lil guy is sweet...