For dirtcrasher (or anyone else)

[riverrat]

You mentioned in another thread, which I didn't want to hijack that you beat your friends 84X that he has $2500 into, with your $550 86X. And that the 86X is so much better.

You make it sound like the 84X isn't worth the wheels it sits on. I am asking because I own an 84X, and I started to put some money into it. I eventually want to rebuild the motor, and paint it all nice. I already bought plastics for it. Your comments have discouraged me into doing it, and I want to clear that up.

So I really want to know, just what is it that makes the 86X soooo much better than an 84? Is it just the motor, is there that much of a hp increase? Or is it the suspension?

I am sure it is actually better, but just how much better? How can one spend $2500 and still not be able to beat the next model year in line?

[TwoHundredEx]

If I'm not mistaken it has another 4hp, and only weighs about 5lbs less. I personally can't see it being THAT much better, that's not to say that it isn't, just that I've never had the chance to ride one to experience for myself. It does have a better frame design though, using square tubing. I personally like the looks of the '83-85 X much better, the rear fenders and tank shrouds are what turn me off from the '86-'87.

[Huffa]

They are so much changed for 86 that's it's almost like they are two different machines.

I never liked the older style chain adjustment set up on the older Honda ATC's including the 200X.

Here are most the changes

http://www.quadpit.com/images/mags/other/1986-200x.jpg


84 ..... Compression ratio 9.6 to 1
Compression 142 - 170 psi
Transmission speeds 5 speed
Clutch Type Manual
Oil Capacity 1.3 Qt
Carburetion 24 mm Keihin

86 ...... Displacement 199cc
Bore x Stroke 65 x 60.0 mm
Compression ratio 9.5 to 1
Compression 170.5 - 199 psi
Transmission speeds 6 speed
Clutch Type Manual
Oil Capacity 1.3 Qt
Carburetion 24 mm Keihin

[TwoHundredEx]

Well after reading that... I retract most of my statement.

[The Goat]

hmm...my rebuilt 85 with OEM parts had 180+ pounds of compression. and i've seen rpm_atv selling engines at 195 psi. did we just get bad readouts? or how are they measuring?

[Huffa]

Well after reading that... I retract most of my statement.

Yea, the 83-85 are not bad but the 6/7 really are sooo :lol: much better.

[The Goat]

one question...were the gas tanks on the 86-87s different. cause if so, i've got the sneaking suspicion that i have an 96-97 on my 85, as my fenders don't meet the tank perfectly.

[TwoHundredEx]

Yea, the 83-85 are not bad but the 6/7 really are sooo :lol: much better.

Oh definitely, I would easily take one over the '83/5. But theres just something about the fenders that I still don't like :lol:

[TwoHundredEx]

one question...were the gas tanks on the 86-87s different. cause if so, i've got the sneaking suspicion that i have an 96-97 on my 85, as my fenders don't meet the tank perfectly.

Yes they were a little different. Judging by the pics you posted, yours is an '83-85, if you look at the link Huffa posted you can see that the tank has a curve in the bottom, yours is straight. Most aftermarket fenders don't line up with the tank very well.

[rally4x4racer]

So they increased the stroke 60 mm, but left the bore the same size?

Hey Huffa, How can they have very similar comrpession ratios but put out that big of a difference in pressure? Head design?

[Dirtcrasher]

You guys can all have your own opinions. I owned both of them at one time. The 85 200X was bought and restored by me and I enjoyed it so much better than the 87 250SX, I thought I was hooked. Then I picked up an 86/87 200X and took it for a ride in stock form. They feel like an 85/86 250R in terms of handling. Ever notice who crappy an 85 kicker feels? It just doesn't feel like a positive kick like the 86/87 does. Then I jumped it, it soared through the air like an eagle and landed smooth entered the berm and it turned effortlessly. The brake adjustment is so much easier too. There are virtually no parts that swap aside from the tires and rims, front fenders, handlebars and forks (which are about an inch taller).

The 86 looks and feels like a racer and with 6 speeds it keeps up with my 350X pretty damn well.

[riverrat]

Thanks for the explanation. One of these days I will own an 86-7 and feel the difference myself. But for now, I think I am going to keep on fiddling with this one. Doesn't need too much. It runs and everything, but I think I will rebuild it, and put a higher compression piston in it. It just needs paint, and for me to replace the kick starter with a rebuilt one I bought off ebay. Supposedly this one won't skip. My return spring is busted too. Maybe when I am done I will have about $1500 in it.
I got my 85R to finish first. I even thought of making it an automatic for my wife. It's really hers anyway. She is just learning, and rode my 110 for the first time the other day. Trikes with suspension are so much easier to ride. They take the bumps much better.

[super90]

My friend has an 84 or 83 and I have the 86. The 86 is an entirely different machine. The chain adjustment on the older x's is a pain to tighten, while on the 86s you loosen 2 bolts and pull the carrier back. Another thing is the overall feel, once you sit on the 86 youll feel it has a much sportier feel due to the front end standing higher and possibly more fork rake? The looks dont even compare, the 86 looks like a racer type machine and the older X's have more of the box look. Another thing I dont like about older ones is the kick starter goes the whole way down to the ground! I prefer the kicker on mine that only goes down to the pegs. Dont get me wrong the older X's run pretty damn good but ill take my 86 over any first gen's.


Yes they were a little different. Judging by the pics you posted, yours is an '83-85, if you look at the link Huffa posted you can see that the tank has a curve in the bottom, yours is straight. Most aftermarket fenders don't line up with the tank very well.

The 86 and 87 tanks were the same, just the 87 had white tank shrouds with the 200x decal on them spreading over the tank. The whole tank is pretty much different from the 1st generation X's, and the shrouds wont interchange without drilling holes. My maier plastics didnt line up perfect with my tank either, the little plastic part overlapped the tank and needed to be trimmed.

[84honda200s]

ill stick with the 83-85 ones. parts dont cost as much for them unlike the 86-87. i do hate the 83-85 chain adjusters though. but to each their own.

[Erics350x]

Personally im an 87 fan, but that doen't mean 84-85's aren't good trikes. There are more parts out there for your gen and they are still reliable and alot of fun.

[Dirtcrasher]

It just needs paint, and for me to replace the kick starter with a rebuilt one I bought off ebay. Supposedly this one won't skip. My return spring is busted too. Maybe when I am done I will have about $1500 in it.



IMO, Thats the most important difference between the 2 years.

I guess back then, that was the only way they could figure out how to forward kick these motors.

Whats scary, is someone could put one of these motors all back together and STILL have a slipping problem. You can't buy the kit to fix them anymore and I haven't seen many if any for sale lately. So you have to go with used parts. If it was outside that case, no big deal - just another clutch cover gasket. But being inside the motor, your at least 4 hours deep into it and a whole gasket kit.

Hey, hopefully yours will be OK, good luck with your build. The 85's are just as much fun as any of ATC's.

[rally4x4racer]

how do yo rebuild a kickstarter? DC you are saying there is a design error that causes them to slip - and it is internal?

[Dirtcrasher]

how do yo rebuild a kickstarter? DC you are saying there is a design error that causes them to slip - and it is internal?

They 83,84 and 85 all had "kits" you could buy to remedy the slipping. I believe some of them consisted of gears and or springs to correct it. Howdy had some and I think he sold them all off. I believe there was a different kit for each year. Apparently it took Honda until 86 to get it right.

I'm still convinced that that model motor used the basic XR or XL or other cases and thats why they had that crazy external gear setup to allow for forward kicking.

Those kits are discontinued. There was a guy on EBAY that claimed to have figured out this problem and for a fee he'd tell you what to do. I'd guess it's a "stretch the spring" or "add a washer". I can't imagine what else he came up with but a few guys should chip in and buy it one time.

[ProCarbine2k1]

Dont hesitate to put some cash into your 84, I definitely love mine. Although the 86-87's feel quite a bit different, Ive always had a "thing" for the 83-85's. Although they may not pack quite the performance the later years did, you wont be missing very many rides looking for parts on ebay either.
I couldnt pick one over the other, but you can definitely tell Honda got much more involved with the design of the 86-87's. My favorite was the valve adjustment (thought you would be all over that one Dirtcrasher).

[riverrat]

Those kits are discontinued. There was a guy on EBAY that claimed to have figured out this problem and for a fee he'd tell you what to do. I'd guess it's a "stretch the spring" or "add a washer". I can't imagine what else he came up with but a few guys should chip in and buy it one time.


Well that might be where I bought mine, so I have one. The ad sad he would not reveal what he did, as it took him hours of grinding to figure it out. I have one, and when I remove the old one, I will see exactly what the difference is. He charged like $55, and a $30 core fee, which I probably lost, since I am taking too long to swap them out. But hey, if I can figure it out, I'll sell mine, and get the money back. He is still selling on ebay, but does not have that item for sale. It probably depends if he can get cores or not. Might not be until the spring that I have it swapped. I plan on doing the rebuild at the same time. For now, I have to kick it, and return the kick myself to the top of the stroke. :(
Kind of sucks when it won't satrt right away. Usually when it's cold.

Anyone know of a hig output stator for that bike, and coil?