250r Wire harness Q&A

[mudbogger]

I recently lost spark on my 85 250r-after checking the manual and getting out my Fluke meter-I have noticed from the wiring pages here that I do not have a ground coming off the coil as pictured there-I have a 85 and there is a ground on the rear of the frame by the regulator with 2 D/G wires is that correct?
I ohmed all coils and exicters,pulse generators,etc and checked every wire for continuity and they all checked within tolerances as per manual so the only thing I can assume is the CDI went bad (cant check that CAN YOU?), but is that ground wire coming off the coil to the frame needed?I have never had a issue related to spark on the ride with the current harness-did Honda issue a service bullentin for these?

[DeePa]

yeah thats the only ground. the green wire which attaches to the coil is the ground wire though...

Mike

[mudbogger]

yeah thats the only ground. the green wire which attaches to the coil is the ground wire though...

Mike

Are you referring to the existing ground I have on the rear of the frame by the regulator?

[TeamGeek6]

The ignition coil ground is inside the harness.

Dont replace the CDI, they RARELY fail. No way to check it without an oscilloscope.

99% chance its a bad CDI plug or stator plug, the CDI plug cant be replaced. Mine did the same thing weak orange spark then dead.

I can rebuild the system or hop it up. you wont get anywhere with that Fluke except wasting money guessing at stators and CDIs.

[mudbogger]

I checked the CDI and stator plugs and they both have continuity through them, as does the complete harness,if the plugs were bad why would there by continuity through them?By saying the plug do you mean the plug on the CDI itself or the end of the harness plugs?

[TeamGeek6]

That system works with high voltage (up to 400 VAC pulse voltage), the Fluke does not. The system works under vibration, the Fluke does not. No comparison whatsoever. The system works with electrical pulses milliseconds wide, the Fluke doe snot. The wires and connetors pass high currents, the Fluke does not. ONE terminal on the CDI plug or anywhere in the system thats a little loose or corroded, and voila, NO IGNITION. Ive been there, seen that, reverse engineered the entire system and design ignition systems for fun. Im not a mechanic giving you an opinion.

Remove the CDi. Get a couple Q Tips and a pair of needlenose pliers. Squash the Q Tips flat ( the cotton end). VERY flat. USe the flat end to polish the CDi terminals GENTLY (or theyll break off). Then disconnect the Black/Red wire on the stator and look at the terminals, probably loose and the copper terminals are brown/green, which is oxidation (theyre ruined). Those "bullet connectors" fail often.

[mudbogger]

Thank you-I'll try that and get back to you immed!!!:cool:

[hoser]

I recently lost spark on my 85 250r-after checking the manual and getting out my Fluke meter-I have noticed from the wiring pages here that I do not have a ground coming off the coil as pictured there-I have a 85 and there is a ground on the rear of the frame by the regulator with 2 D/G wires is that correct?
I ohmed all coils and exicters,pulse generators,etc and checked every wire for continuity and they all checked within tolerances as per manual so the only thing I can assume is the CDI went bad (cant check that CAN YOU?), but is that ground wire coming off the coil to the frame needed?I have never had a issue related to spark on the ride with the current harness-did Honda issue a service bullentin for these?

The FLUKE will work perfect for what test your using it for....

[mudbogger]

So did my testing with the FLUKE go for not?
Can the meter be used or not?
Sorry for the confusion here guys-I am just trying to get this thing running again.

[Mosh]

Fluke meters are some of the best meters on the market.They will measure your machine just fine.Lets not make it harder than needed here.
Use the Fluke to measure the resistance of your pick-up coil in the stator to make sure it is cable of sending the signal to you CDI.Also measyure your coil resistance.Take your on/off swicth apart and make sure something has not broke,cuasing it to stay in the off posistion.Pull your stator cover and examine for broken wires or water intrusion.
Although I agree with CDI rarely failing,In the last year I have had to replace 1 on my TRX and 1 on my banshee.

Does your light flicker while trying to start it?It is a seperate circuit in the stator,but may give you clues to stator failure if the light does not flicker while trying to kick it over.

[mudbogger]

Fluke meters are some of the best meters on the market.They will measure your machine just fine.Lets not make it harder than needed here.
Use the Fluke to measure the resistance of your pick-up coil in the stator to make sure it is cable of sending the signal to you CDI.Also measyure your coil resistance.Take your on/off swicth apart and make sure something has not broke,cuasing it to stay in the off posistion.Pull your stator cover and examine for broken wires or water intrusion.
Although I agree with CDI rarely failing,In the last year I have had to replace 1 on my TRX and 1 on my banshee.

Does your light flicker while trying to start it?It is a seperate circuit in the stator,but may give you clues to stator failure if the light does not flicker while trying to kick it over.

Yes it did flicker when kicked-I used the FLUKE meter on the stator-pulse generator,exciter- every item that could be checked for continuity and ohmed was and they all came in within tolerances as per manual.I have a CDI coming as with a regulator.When I first started investigating the loss of spark I discovered a broken DG wire at the regulator-the wire was broken off at the base of it under the sheathing the engine on-off switch was checked per manual twice and it is operating fine-closed it has continuity open it doesn't-or is that reversed?anyway it is working fine:p

Also, I used a test light at the STATOR plug and exciter plugs and when kicking I get power from them both-enought to lit it up and as I stated they both came in fine on the specs.

[Dirtcrasher]

FLUKE meters will check whatever the service manual specs out just fine.

A radio shack meter will too.....................

[InPiEcEs]

Just make sure that you have good ground at the rear of the frame, and good continuity through the harness as well.
I had that problem on mine at first......no spark, and I knew all the components were good. I also ran a ground wire from the engine to the frame, just for peace of mind.
Give all the connections a good looking over.....usually you find the problem there.
Also......I can't recall for sure, but I think if the regulator goes out, you may lose spark, but don't quote me on that one.

Dave

[TeamGeek6]

The Fluke is useless to measure anything but continuity.

It CANNOT check the CDI plug b ecause the other side of the CDI plug is sealed in PLASTIC. Hwo will you get a meter probe on the CDi side of the connector? Cant be done unless you take the CDi apart.

Whoever said the fluke is useful for checking coil resistance has no idea what hes talking about, the resistance is not how a coil work, they are AC devices that have INDUCTANCE.

Listen to an electrical engineer, kids. Youre leading this guy astray.

[Mosh]

The Fluke is useless to measure anything but continuity.

It CANNOT check the CDI plug b ecause the other side of the CDI plug is sealed in PLASTIC. Hwo will you get a meter probe on the CDi side of the connector? Cant be done unless you take the CDi apart.

Whoever said the fluke is useful for checking coil resistance has no idea what hes talking about, the resistance is not how a coil work, they are AC devices that have INDUCTANCE.

Listen to an electrical engineer, kids. Youre leading this guy astray.
Fluke meters are the preferred measuring device For General Motors,Ford Chrysler and so on.
No one is doubting your expertise here in this field of electronics.

A DVOM, Meter of any type has worked fine by me for most testing applications..
All we need to do is keep things simple enough for everyone to understand,without getting deep into the laws of electronics.For Atv testing purposes,many have gotten by for the last 20 years with a simple meter.
Oh yeah,Flukes WILL ALSO measure,hertz,amps ac,and dc voltage, as well as resistance,and they also have min max recording ability.Not to mention diode testing.At least mine does. :welcome:

As far as checking a CDI,I dont waist my time.For what they cost to get,I keep em in my parts bin,and when I suspect one is bad,I throw it on and get back on the trail.No need to waist 10 hours figuring out what happened,Why, or how it works.I really dont care.
The flippin thing was broke, and now it runs with a Known good one.Simple as that.
I chuck it in the garbage and go.

MUD BOGGER...Your 350x Cdi can be used as a tester.It wont run right,with it on,but it will serve as a tester.Same as the 350x coil.At least you can plug em in and see if it fires off.
I would have told you that the other day,but did not see in your sig. you had 350x's.

[Mosh]

The Fluke is useless to measure anything but continuity.

It CANNOT check the CDI plug b ecause the other side of the CDI plug is sealed in PLASTIC. Hwo will you get a meter probe on the CDi side of the connector? Cant be done unless you take the CDi apart.

Whoever said the fluke is useful for checking coil resistance has no idea what hes talking about, the resistance is not how a coil work, they are AC devices that have INDUCTANCE.

Listen to an electrical engineer, kids. Youre leading this guy astray.
Well that is funny that Fluke meters are not good enough for you.
They are the preferred measuring device For General Motors,Ford Chrysler and so on.
No one is doubting your expertise here in this field of electronics.
I use labscopes everyday in my line of work,and although some may understand them,Like you OR I,some folks have no experience with them.
A Meter of any type has worked fine by me for most testing applications..
All we need to do is keep things simple enough for everyone to understand,without getting into the laws of electronics.For Atv testing purposes,many have gotten by for the last 20 years with a simple meter.
Oh yeah,Flukes WILL ALSO measure,hertz,amps ac,and dc voltage, as well as resistance,and they also have min max recording ability.Not to mention diode testing.At least mine does. :welcome:

As far as checking a CDI,I dont waist my time.For what they cost to get,I keep em in my parts bin,and when I suspect one is bad,I throw it on and get back on the trail.No need to waist 10 hours figuring out what happened,Why, or how it works.I really dont care.
The flippin thing was broke, and now it runs with a Known good one.Simple as that.
I chuck it in the garbage and go.

[Jason Hall]

Are you sure that the green ground wire at the left rear subframe Is connected to the frame with a good connection? Next try unplugging your kill switch, as It grounds the coil to stop the spark. The regulator Only regulates the lighting side of the stator, and has nothing to do with your loss of spark. If you use your headlight you will want the regulator though. Mosh Is steering you right, the fluke will do the simple testing you need It to. And a 350x cdi will make the bike run, but It won't rev out clean.

[mudbogger]

Hi ALL ,THANKS VERY MUCH FOR THE HELP-I for many years had used a FLUKE meter for measuring devices and never had any issues.
THE new CDI came today-plugged it in and got spark again-I had a great sigh of relieve but from my testing I new it had to be the CDI.Thanks again fellas!!!!

[Dirtcrasher]

Gee, wow, oh, I can't believe what a "fluke" it was that the Fluke worked. LOL.....I thought you needed and oscillaampawattameter?? Anyhow, most of us have had good luck with just any old meter and I actually prefer the old needle meters over anything myself. But then again, I'm only part genius....

Glad you got her going!!

[mudbogger]

Fluke meters are some of the best meters on the market.They will measure your machine just fine.Lets not make it harder than needed here.
Use the Fluke to measure the resistance of your pick-up coil in the stator to make sure it is cable of sending the signal to you CDI.Also measyure your coil resistance.Take your on/off swicth apart and make sure something has not broke,cuasing it to stay in the off posistion.Pull your stator cover and examine for broken wires or water intrusion.
Although I agree with CDI rarely failing,In the last year I have had to replace 1 on my TRX and 1 on my banshee.

Does your light flicker while trying to start it?It is a seperate circuit in the stator,but may give you clues to stator failure if the light does not flicker while trying to kick it over.

Moshman-lost spark again, pulled the stator cover and it is rusted inside-water intrusion has definitly happened.I cannot keep the spark in the ride-should I pull the stator and get it checked out???-RICKY STATOR a good place to go?The inside on the case is rusted- not badly but enough to make me suspect that the stator is going bad- but the keyway isnt broken, (thats the main reason I pulled the side cover.)the light does flicker when kicking it over as well, so I am totally confused.Any ideas by chance???
Also-the 250r will run without the voltage regulator in it correct?Will you not get spark without it?If you do indeed run it without the voltage regulator-can you damage the stator, etc in the ride?

[200x Basket]

sounds like you have a ground problem or a loose wire somewhere. Clean the stator up but i doubt that is the problem.

[mudbogger]

ok, I pulled the wire harness and checked every wire for continuity-they all tested perfect, not 1 wire had no continuity between them.I checked the stator and exciter,pulse generator, everything with the FLUKE-they came within specs.Still no spark when kicked-what am I doing wrong?
Changed CDI'S,coils, plug, on/off switch/ didn't help.IS there a possibility that the stator is still bad even when measured by the Fluke??

[Mosh]

So it ran for how long and then quit?10 minutes 2 hours?


I would go with the easiest things first.I am pretty sure you can swap the regulator off of your 350x as a tester,but I doubt that is your problem.That should only affect the lights(but I have seen stranger things happen).If you unplug the regulator and turn your lights on without it,it will blow the bulbs.So be careful.

I would unplug the on off switch at the gooseneck Like Jason said.And see if it runs.
I would also put a coil from your 350x on there and see if it fires up and runs.
Do these things one at a time,so you know if you found the problem.

The last thing I would do,that is free,would be to remove the wire harness and inspect and do resistance checks between all the wire ends.
20 years of age can break down a harness or connection.


Edit,just saw your last post.
Set your meter on AC voltage and check for voltage while kicking it over from the pick-up coil leads.I am not sure of the exact spec,But I would think you will want at least 150 milivolts during kicking.
Check the air gap on the pick-up coil and make sure there is no rust on the flywheel,and pick-up coil magnet.
It could be your stator in the end.It seems you have exhausted every avenue at this point.

Someone correct me if I am wrong,but the pick-up coil for the spark is the little black box on the front of the flywheel with 2 screws,bolted to the countershaft bearing plate..I would look at that really close.Try wiggling those wires while a friend kicks it over and see if you get any type of response or spark.
I know on most Yamahas,they(pick-up coils) can be replaced separate,but the 250 R may be part of the whole stator.

Keep us updated.

One last note.Do you have any aftermarket kill switches on the bike????
If so disconect those first.I have seen those cuase problems too.

[Billy Golightly]

I've had mixed results checking electrical parts for continuity. Sometimes it specs in and its junk, sometimes it specs in and its good. I had a similar gremlin on my 85 R and I ended up just getting fed up with it going to an entire new CR250 ignition system, but I went through the same thing. Checked the stator, the pulse generator, the oil, the ground, made new grounds, swapped CDI boxes, tried just about everything. The only real way to test electrical parts is to "Replace with a known good unit" until you find which part exactly is wrong :lol:

[mudbogger]

So it ran for how long and then quit?10 minutes 2 hours?


I would go with the easiest things first.I am pretty sure you can swap the regulator off of your 350x as a tester,but I doubt that is your problem.That should only affect the lights(but I have seen stranger things happen).If you unplug the regulator and turn your lights on without it,it will blow the bulbs.So be careful.

I would unplug the on off switch at the gooseneck Like Jason said.And see if it runs.
I would also put a coil from your 350x on there and see if it fires up and runs.
Do these things one at a time,so you know if you found the problem.

The last thing I would do,that is free,would be to remove the wire harness and inspect and do resistance checks between all the wire ends.
20 years of age can break down a harness or connection.


Edit,just saw your last post.
Set your meter on AC voltage and check for voltage while kicking it over from the pick-up coil leads.I am not sure of the exact spec,But I would think you will want at least 150 milivolts during kicking.
Check the air gap on the pick-up coil and make sure there is no rust on the flywheel,and pick-up coil magnet.
It could be your stator in the end.It seems you have exhausted every avenue at this point.

Someone correct me if I am wrong,but the pick-up coil for the spark is the little black box on the front of the flywheel with 2 screws,bolted to the countershaft bearing plate..I would look at that really close.Try wiggling those wires while a friend kicks it over and see if you get any type of response or spark.
I know on most Yamahas,they(pick-up coils) can be replaced separate,but the 250 R may be part of the whole stator.

Keep us updated.

One last note.Do you have any aftermarket kill switches on the bike????
If so disconect those first.I have seen those cuase problems too.

Ok lets see if I can get you updated:
the 250 ran great before the spark loss-It sat for a period of about 2 weeks, went to start it for a ride I had scheduled and no start, prior it ran perfectly other than some jetting that was needed-fine tune stuff-
Checked the swtich on the handlebars as Jason mentioned, I also checked that with the fluke meter and is is fully operational and brand new OEM-it isnt malfunctioning at all-I thought as well that could be a possible issue, but it isnt.
I did today change 3 coils on the bike-it fired up with each coil,then after re-assembling it the bike would lose spark-I tryed re-assembling the bike all the time checking for spark as each item was installed-got to the point of tank and it lost spark again.Thought I had a bad wire in the harness-took it out checked each wire end to end nothing everything checked out for resisitance and continuity.I got it down to the wires coming out of the stator seemed to be where I was losing it-but as I said the FLUKE meter is telling me they are ok----
I did not check the air gap on the pulse generator but it had rust on the sensor area that matches to the outside of the flywheel, I lightly sanded it down and double checked for spark, still nothing.Like I said before the case inside behind the stator has some rust on it and the pulse generaotr as well, so I'm going to get a puller and get that cover off tomorrow-rust inside that stator will kill spark correct?
I do not have aftermarket swtiches on the 250 at all, just the one handlebar switch.

would this stator be a good replacement for the stock 1 also would the use of a new regulator be needed for this sytem, I wonder IF anybody currently uses this set-up from them?
http://www.rickystator.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_35&products_id=209