another z update with pic (page 2). Raffa and mosh called it, needs crank bearings!!!

[evand]

ok well i busted arse today and got the z 90% done. get it started, fires right up in 10 kicks. seems to be runing awsome, i left the rad. cap loose so i could add coolent when the t-stat opened, well bike ran for maybe 5 mins open the cap and the coolent i put in was black!but it hasnt gone down at all. but heres the kicker there was maybe a quart of coolent in it and the coolent in the over flow is still green AND the t-stat didnt open? then i look down and low and be-hold there oil coming out of the crank case vent and arourn the kick start cover.

oil isnt white and milky but not golden like it should be for 5 mins old, kinda like a blackish gray.


this thing ran mint before i took it out didnt burn a bit or coolant and the oil was nice and black. it has a new head gasket and a head fro yamahondaman. so its not the head gasket.

im thinking water pump seal? either way i have to pull the motor and send it out and have it re-done.


i was so happy to take it out for a ride tomorrow on the ice. now im just f*cking pissed and im half arse thinking of selling it and moving on!


sry guys had to vent

[03 ORANGE SHEE]

sorry to hear that, a banshee water pump seal is the same for $20

[Mosh]

Did you take any parts of the lower end apart?
Sounds to me like There was dirt or paint overspray in your radiators,Or your water pump is not spining,Or you over filled the crank case with oil.
Flush everything out and try it again,and make sure you have the proper oil level in the crank case.
I would think that if the waterpump seal is bad,you would have tan colored oil.And you said the coolant level did not drop.

[TeamGeek6]

oil isnt white and milky but not golden like it should be for 5 mins old, kinda like a blackish gray.


didnt burn a bit or coolant and the oil was nice and black.



OIl should never be black, thats extremely bad. Sounds like the oil was burnt up and got into the coolant. I assume there was air in the cooling system so the water couldnt circulate and if so, there may be engine damage from overheating.

[evand]

thanks for the input guys.


i didnt touch the bottom end, but idid repair the water pump? the coolent was like a greyish black and had like flakes floating in it? i did paint the rads but only a tiny bit of over spray got in the top were the cap screws on. not enought to make the coolent black i wouldnt think?

and i dont understand why the oil is blackish greyish aleady? its new ran for maybe 5 mins on it? and it said in the manual its takes like 1.06 quarts, i put 1 and a tiny bit more in, think that would be enough to push it out of the case vent/kickstart cover?


sry for all the ?'s guys, but iv got alot of money tied up in this thing and it earks me that something is messed up. Im shure all you guys know the feeling:beer

[Tryzeedudeman]

The blackish greyish color in the oil might be because when you add the new oil in there, there may have been a different kind or color in before, maybe gear saver. So maybe that is why the color is off a bit. Just something to think about. Good luck!!

[super90]

What? Oil shouldnt be black? Everything I ever drained thats more than a few days old was always black..

[tecat-z]

Black in a four stroke......... Grey, when well used in a 2stroke wet clutch application.

[RID3R]

I get a semi dark grey in the tecates, not black though..

[TeamGeek6]

BLACK OIL IS BURNED OIL unless it was black to start with. Run an engine without coolant flow and the cylinder heat will burn it in a hurry.

[sblt500r]

where do you live in ma?

oil will turn black once used, even for the shortest time. if you change the oil in your car. start it, then drain the oil it will be black.

[300rman]

where do you live in ma?

oil will turn black once used, even for the shortest time. if you change the oil in your car. start it, then drain the oil it will be black.

not in my car. after 5000 miles, the oil just is starting to turn color from amber to black.

[tecat-z]

Oil in the clutch/trans of a 2 stroke will not turn black even under severe heat. The top end will fail long before the bottom end gets to that point. The oil doesn't go any where near the topend in our 2strokes. Oil will turn grey or a greyish white with clutch wear or water, or any combo of the two. Oil turns black in a fourstroke when combustion forces it's way past rings. That will blacken oil in a hurry, or it's just poor maintenance where it's never changed.

[evand]

well i should have worded that better, it was a greyish blackish color, not black like a in a thumper, when i said "nice and black" i just meant no coolent in it. sry bout that guys


but it is def. getting oil in the coolent, all i can think that it can be is the pump seal? its the only place where the water and oil meet?

and im guessing i have to split the case to do it?

im in doulgas south/central RITE on the RI border? were are you? any were to ride out your way? always looking for new people to ride with and new places and new 450's to harass lol


thanks alot for all the help guys
evan:beer

[Bryan Raffa]

no you dont have to split the case for the waterpump seal..its in the clutch cover

[evand]

good deal, i have never done one before and was just figuring i have to split the case lol, just how mt luck is with this bike latly

[Bryan Raffa]

you will get the bug worked out ..dont give up ..thats what the honda guys expect! LOL

[Mosh]

The only thing that concerns me is how is oil pushing into the cooling system?
Usually the cooling system has more pressure than the trans oil does.
In other words,,,The cooling system should push coolant into the trans oil before the trans oil pushes into the coolant system.Every waterpump seal I have seen failed gets coolant into the trans oil.Not the other way around.He syas he sees no signs of coolant in the oil.

I am starting to wonder if the right side crank seal is bad too.

[chris200x]

you will get the bug worked out ..dont give up ..thats what the honda guys expect! LOL

Yeah,,, dont be like me. I'm a big sell out! :lol: :lock:

[evand]

im thinking theres coolent in the oil to, i put it in run the bike for 1 min and the oil is greyish with out even riding it, and it pushing oil out the kick start cover gasket so its filling up the crank case with something....


not that im douting you mosh, i just want to learn these things but if its a crank seal how is oil getting into the coolent that way? the only place the coolent comes in contact with the lower end is at the water pump rite? and the coolent gets oil in it the second you start it up, before the cooling system gets presure in it, so oil could be seeping through before the system builts presure then when the cooling system builds presure it pushed coolent into the crank case....


but anyways, if it is a crank seal how do i go about changing it? just pull the clutch basket off and pull the seal out? or do i have to split the case to replace the seal?


thanks alot for all the help guys:beer :beer


dont wory gaffa ill never go back to the "red" side after riding a z:lol:

unless one comes up real cheap.:lock:

[Bryan Raffa]

well if you have the clutch cover off change the right crank seal too.. just for my curiosity pull the flywheel cover off and grab right ahold of the flywheel and try and move it up and down.. if you feel movement your crank bearing are bad..along with the seals....

[evand]

well you guys called it (raffa and mosh) pulled the fly wheel cover off and grab the fly wheel and of course, it moves, check the fly wheel bolt and its tight. has about a 16th of play up and down, maybe not even that much, but it moves.


should i even attemp to do them myself, or should it try to find a shop around here that will do it. i know any dealer ship wont even touch it, i tried to have my old bike rebuilt at a few and they said it was to old and the only other shop around here that i know of closed:mad:

but heres a few pics of it all back together, before it comes it comes apart again.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/moparneck273/tri-zalmostdone2.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h83/moparneck273/tri-zalmostdone1.jpg

[Mosh]

Well,the crank seal was probably bad on the right side and pressurizing the trans oil cuasing it to buble out where you mentioned.
but yeah at this piont,The crank needs pulled.

I would advise you to throw a new rod on the crank while apart.
90 for the rod
50 for crank pressing
40 for bearings and
35 bucks for gaskets and sealer.

If you have a manual,stripping the motor down is not that hard.Just go slow,and keep everything organized.
You will need a flywheel puller,and a case splitter.Most automotive harmonic balancer kits will seperate the case halves just fine.
Then take your cases to a machine shop,and have them press out your old bearings,and press in your new crank bearings.They should only charge you about 50 bucks to do that.
I would not hammer the bearings out or in.Some people do,and get away with it,but I dont care for it.

If you feel like it,I have a good bottom end here.I may just sell it to you,ready to go.
Actaully it is a phase 2 engine all together turn key.
But I will want some good money and a core engine to come off it.
Just throwin that idea out for ya.
Here are pics of that motor.

[Black86tri-z]

sblt from ma will probely hook you up on a rebuilt lower end

[evand]

who's that black-z? lol some one here on the boards?

[chris200x]

sblt500r here on the forums and over on E2s. He rebuilt mine and deepa's z motors. no problems...

[DeePa]

technically they are both my motors now.

and youre paying emotionally for selling out every time you see me post

[chris200x]

LMFAO!!!! :crazy: It's all good buddy! :lol:

seriously tho.. shawn does do good work.