How do you guys get on and stay on the pipe?

[Liquid-Darkness]

I know you are supose to ride the powerband area of the engine when riding a two stroke. In my few years of riding I only have had two experiences with the pipe as they call it. One is when you gently press the gas untill the powerband kicks in, then stay just under its max power before topend and rev in and out of it. The other was when I had my bike in real soft dirt and couldn't rev to max power. I feathered the clutch and slammed into WOT and rolled my bike because the power was so great. Now that I think about it, the soft toutch of the throttle to hit and stay under the powerband feels like a tease and it kinda falls flat when shifting from 2nd to 3d. Its like a drug, the taller the gears get the shorter the pull of the powerband hits. Thats why I am hopeing that my mods for lowend will widen the hit and hit harder at lower rpms. What do you guys think? The two strokes are ment to run at higher rpms, this I know. I would like to get that small hit of power and spread it out so I have a large hit of power when the powerband kicks in. I still haven't broken my topend in yet, just putted around the yard. When my rings seat and my head is torqued down, I will get some seat time with my mods. I still do not have the type 6 PT pipe, or the lowend port+polish. These mods will be done later in the year. I hope I can broden that strong feel of power from the band. Its not bad from 1st to 2nd but as the gears get taller, the power seems to get less and less unless you are at wot. I am going to gear down to a 13/39 stock gearing for the 85 R.

I like the power of the two stroke, but I also like the tight rev of a four stroke. The two stroke seems to hit about half throttle and rev its power till wot. I am hoping to make it somehow hit at 1/3 throttle and rev all the way to 4/5ths throttle. Not running my engine to death at wot, but having a clean powerfull rev like a four stroke, but with all the frills of a two stroke. To me its fun riding off the pipe and having the twostroke rev real low and putt around, heck riding like that out here in the country saves gas. Then I like to get crazy with it and get that powerband to hit. I guess my question is how do you master using the powerband.

[ATC-Eric]

How do you master using the powerband?????



I sit RIGHT underneith it in the lower RPM's. That way its there if I need it.




One thing that helped my bottom end was the V-Force reed cage system I bought. It allows more flow on the reed side, giving you just a little more "grunt."



I think your just going to have to get used to loud 2 smoke noises. If you want the power, you gotta give um some juice!

[InPiEcEs]

The main thing is being in the right gear for the speed you are running.
2-strokes generally aren't low-end torque monsters, unless you have a 500 or something ungodly.
I keep my shifting foot ready, and feather the clutch when needed.
I think that Type 6 pipe will help out.
I have an ESR on mine, and it's definitely better than stock down low, and all the way up the range, too.
It may have been even better down low with the smaller stock carb. I have a 38mm PWK on it.
If you want more low end power, go with cross-country (woods) porting, or low end as you said.
I could be wrong, but I just don't think you're gonna get that grunt down on the bottom like the 4-strokes have.

[brapp]

just whack it and clutch when nessicary and try and hold on either in the throttle or the brakes and youll be golden lol

[DixiePlowboy]

I honestly never really think about it.

I just pin the throttle for however fast I want to go and slip the clutch/shift accordingly. Come to think of it, the only time I'm not in the powerband is when it's at idle, decelerating, or off.

[evand]

i just hammer it and hope i dont die. that way she's always in the power:beer lol

[Liquid-Darkness]

So there is a trick like slipping the clutch. Will that burn up the clutch? Any mechanical damage is that like a method to ride? I have herd lots of people on here say to slip the clutch a bit. The last time I tryed to slip the clutch, my bike took off like a rocket and I ended up tipping it over.:lol:

[max]

Dont slip the clutch!!! It will prematurely f your clutches and basket. Like said above. Just be in the right gear for the speed you are going.

[cr480r]

Liquid-darkness it sounds to me like your bike may have some tuning issues.. unless it has some kind of wild porting done... my bikes are never far from the powerband and usually pull great at low rpms when the carb is in tune.. Dont be scared to "bump" the clutch if you need a boost up a hill or are coming out of a corner a bit slow for the gear you're in... you can abuse a clutch for years before wear will become a problem.... try not to let it "slip" excessively though...

[Yamahondaman]

The main thing is being in the right gear for the speed you are running.
2-strokes generally aren't low-end torque monsters, unless you have a 500 or something ungodly.
I keep my shifting foot ready, and feather the clutch when needed.
I think that Type 6 pipe will help out.
I have an ESR on mine, and it's definitely better than stock down low, and all the way up the range, too.
It may have been even better down low with the smaller stock carb. I have a 38mm PWK on it.
If you want more low end power, go with cross-country (woods) porting, or low end as you said.
I could be wrong, but I just don't think you're gonna get that grunt down on the bottom like the 4-strokes have.

I AGREE !!! Nicely said ! ... be ready with the clutch at ANY RPM ..

[Dirtcrasher]

Although I'm no longer a 2 stroke guy....

You always have to stay "in the power" or in the place that hits in any gear when the motor sounds great and you can feel the rear end pushing.

It's every gear and all the time. Of course anyone can roost all 6 gears, but dropping into a turn in 2nd and pulling out of it and clicking into 3rd - you need to be in the "meat" of that powerband or it's just gonna dog down.

I ALWAYS used the clutch to get the revs up, dump the clutch and almost immediately you can click up another gear because your in that heart of power again and the wheel is spinning etc etc...............

[Bryan Raffa]

no mercy .. I clutch alot ...one finger...

[300rman]

So there is a trick like slipping the clutch. Will that burn up the clutch? Any mechanical damage is that like a method to ride? I have herd lots of people on here say to slip the clutch a bit. The last time I tryed to slip the clutch, my bike took off like a rocket and I ended up tipping it over.:lol:

yep, thats hitting the powerband for ya. it takes some getting used to to be able to handle it.




no mercy .. I clutch alot ...one finger...
i wish i could pull my clutch with my whole hand....its stiffer than a hobo in a whorehouse!

[Rustytinhorn]

I know what you are refering to Liquid. You arent neccissarily looking for the 4-stroke torque down low, but you want your bottom end to be a bit more responsive and have some pulling power instead of all or nothing up high.
I may recieve some fire for this, (white flag is flying lol) but from what I've learned, you can "adjust" the powerband on a 2 stroke to either be higher rpm or lower rpm by adjusting at what point the maximum delivery ratio is obtained. This is done with things such as porting, pipe, compression, inlet & outlet lengths, carb, jetting, reeds, if you want to get technical then cranckase and inlet volumes and length.
This is why guys get the ports enlarged and high rev pipes. Enlarged ports is like having increased valve duration in a 4 stroke, not to mention the extra area availiable to flow air, plus they can be shaped to direct airflow. The pipe is tuned to "do its thing" at higher rpms.

Smaller carbs are supposed to be better for low end/acceleration because the velocity is maintained through the ports at slower rpms. Same thing with the ports, overly large ports will cause induction to occur early at lower rpms, what you dont want for low end. You can alter port timing and area. A lower port height will give you more compression. Increasing the duration will give you better top end. Also you should run a pipe that is complimentary to the port work (or no work) that is done.
Some say that jetting isn't a mod. But if you have any work done to your engine, icluding aftermarket (not stock) carb, pipe, and/or reeds, your engine is going to flow air differently than it did stock. There are tons of tiny nit-picky ways to tune your carb for every detailed spot in the throttle. Carb size, pilot jet, main jet, air screw, float height, idle screw (yes it matters), throttle needle, needle diameter, needle clip position, needle jet diameter, slides (round and "flat") slide cutaways, and this depends on your fuel, quality, oil type, oil mix, additives, etc... Jetting also can vary depending on what air filter element you are running and what condidition it is in, elevation, temperature, and humidity settings.
It sounds like your main jet is fine for the most part, but may be bogging down lower. This could be caused by either a rich or lean mixture. There may be more working residual gasses left over when operating under a light load, which is why 2 strokes tend to load up when being ridden under light loads, causing it to appear to run rich and foul the plug, when on the other hand, as soon as the 2 stroke becomes under a heavier load, the jetting is spot on. In a nutshell I'm tryin to say that jetting is important and explain why.
Worn out top ends operate better at higher rpms.
Higher compression is supposed to help with low end and torque.
Running a spacer in the inlet is supposed to give better low end and also help mix the fuel air more thoroughly, although I have not tested this myself. The engine speed giving a maximum delivery ratio decreases and the maximum delivery ratio becomes gradually higher with an increase in inlet length.
If you want to get technical then you can increase your delivery ratio by making your cranckase volume smaller. The engine speed changes almost in inverse proportion to the square root of the clearance volume.


Anyway I will end my book. Your powerband can be adjusted up or down. Sounds like you have an awesome higher powerband though.
Everything overlaps everything else. Make a little change here and it will affect something else as well. Trying to get all these little areas of tuning to be spot on without effecting performance in another area is what everyone has been trying to do since the things were invented. I hoped this helped some.

[Saleenster]

I know what you are refering to Liquid. You arent neccissarily looking for the 4-stroke torque down low, but you want your bottom end to be a bit more responsive and have some pulling power instead of all or nothing up high.
I may recieve some fire for this, (white flag is flying lol) but from what I've learned, you can "adjust" the powerband on a 2 stroke to either be higher rpm or lower rpm by adjusting at what point the maximum delivery ratio is obtained. This is done with things such as porting, pipe, compression, inlet & outlet lengths, carb, jetting, reeds, if you want to get technical then cranckase and inlet volumes and length.
This is why guys get the ports enlarged and high rev pipes. Enlarged ports is like having increased valve duration in a 4 stroke, not to mention the extra area availiable to flow air, plus they can be shaped to direct airflow. The pipe is tuned to "do its thing" at higher rpms.

Smaller carbs are supposed to be better for low end/acceleration because the velocity is maintained through the ports at slower rpms. Same thing with the ports, overly large ports will cause induction to occur early at lower rpms, what you dont want for low end. You can alter port timing and area. A lower port height will give you more compression. Increasing the duration will give you better top end. Also you should run a pipe that is complimentary to the port work (or no work) that is done.
Some say that jetting isn't a mod. But if you have any work done to your engine, icluding aftermarket (not stock) carb, pipe, and/or reeds, your engine is going to flow air differently than it did stock. There are tons of tiny nit-picky ways to tune your carb for every detailed spot in the throttle. Carb size, pilot jet, main jet, air screw, float height, idle screw (yes it matters), throttle needle, needle diameter, needle clip position, needle jet diameter, slides (round and "flat") slide cutaways, and this depends on your fuel, quality, oil type, oil mix, additives, etc... Jetting also can vary depending on what air filter element you are running and what condidition it is in, elevation, temperature, and humidity settings.
It sounds like your main jet is fine for the most part, but may be bogging down lower. This could be caused by either a rich or lean mixture. There may be more working residual gasses left over when operating under a light load, which is why 2 strokes tend to load up when being ridden under light loads, causing it to appear to run rich and foul the plug, when on the other hand, as soon as the 2 stroke becomes under a heavier load, the jetting is spot on. In a nutshell I'm tryin to say that jetting is important and explain why.
Worn out top ends operate better at higher rpms.
Higher compression is supposed to help with low end and torque.
Running a spacer in the inlet is supposed to give better low end and also help mix the fuel air more thoroughly, although I have not tested this myself. The engine speed giving a maximum delivery ratio decreases and the maximum delivery ratio becomes gradually higher with an increase in inlet length.
If you want to get technical then you can increase your delivery ratio by making your cranckase volume smaller. The engine speed changes almost in inverse proportion to the square root of the clearance volume.


Anyway I will end my book. Your powerband can be adjusted up or down. Sounds like you have an awesome higher powerband though.
Everything overlaps everything else. Make a little change here and it will affect something else as well. Trying to get all these little areas of tuning to be spot on without effecting performance in another area is what everyone has been trying to do since the things were invented. I hoped this helped some.



Good info, but almost overkill. For the averae rider, this is too much info, but I love the amount of info...tks for sharing

Here's my thoughts: If you want low end power, buy a Raptor. The more power you make, the quicker you will get into the RPM range. Probably the quickest way to increase your rev is going down to a 12 tooth front sprocket.

[Liquid-Darkness]

i knew a guy who got on the pipe.:crazy: now he's a rock star!:eek: ha,ha! sorry, couldn't help it.:TrikesOwn

LoL hehehe.

Yes RTH and you make a good point. I am getting a clearer picture of how I want my engine to run. Thanks alot for the help.

[badasskfx]

its realy easy to stay on the pipe!
GIVE IT MORE THUMB

[Kintore]

no mercy .. I clutch alot ...one finger...

Only one thing to say to that-

YAMAHONDAMAN