The holy grail of Trike shootouts - ATV news R vs Z vs T3.

[Wickedfinger]

Denn mailed me this photocopy of an original ATV News shootout between the '86 R, Z, T3 - I think everybody should make their own conclusions as to whats top dog. I don't have a good scanner so I used my Canon A40 camera to transfer and alot of LView Pro2 editing to make the article legible. Sorry for the so so quality.

[CHAINSAW]

why didnt you just post a link to the ones that have been on the net forever? This is old news

[Darius1502]

Chainsaw,

I have not ever seen an ATV News Shootout on the web. I have seen the 3 & 4 wheel action shootout though.

Wickedfinger...thanks so much for the hard work. You did a great job and am sure I can speak for the whole board in saying, "thank you"!!

[ATC crazy]

Thats awesome Wicked...

250R=87.5mph...WOW :shock:

[Darius1502]

Its actually 67 mph...I have a hard copy of the article. Still very very fast!

[Wickedfinger]

Hey CHAINSAW .... why don't you post a link to this article if you think its on the web somewhere ......

[KASEY]

compression is horsepower!!!!!

kawasaki 9.2 to1
honda 8.0 to1
yamaha 7.7 to1

if they were all 9.2 with the same carb i wonder how close they would be??

[Wickedfinger]

.... I thought the article brought up a good point that I never thought about before - How different the bores and strokes were on the three individual motors. All 250ccs, yet its how they displace that number that helped give the engines their different characteristics.

[Darius1502]

Also interesting is how the order in ATV News was:

1) Tri Z
2) ATC 250R
3) Tecate 3


But in Dirt Wheels the order was:

1) ATC 250R
2) Tecate 3
3) Tri Z

If you look at the detail of the ATV New test and the track times you can see they did a quality test. Of the shootouts I have seen in Dirt Wheels alot them were done in Glamis. I am sure at the dunes the Tecate feels much faster, however on the track the Tri Z still had fastest times (of all 3) according to the test.

I think you can't go wrong with any. It goes to show you how good three wheelers were getting in 86'. There was not clear cut winner all were equal quality machines. Its a shame history turned out as it did.

[Jeb]

Well, I'm glad the Z won...

But you've got to wonder about the people who wrote an article that claims the 85 Tecate had better front forks than the 86! :shock: Also, they CLAIM that the 86 Tecate was almost a step backwards over the 85! :rolleyes: Unbelievable! There is no comparison. I say this as an owner & rider of 84/85 & 86 KXTs. In the Immortal words of Dirt Bike Magazine, August 86 "It's [the 1986 Tecate] lower, faster and handles so well, it makes it year-old brother look like motorized wagon by comparison." From experience, I agree. I was very dissappointed by their thoughts on the Tecate. I almost get the impression they were scared of it. It had tons of good info and I thought the article was well done overall. Very enjoyable reading indeed. Cheers to the Z!

[TimSr]

This is why I start so many of my posts with "I dont much care what the magazines say, because in the real world...." And Im sorry but Dirt Wheels is biased towards Honda that they could have used the 110, and theyd still swear it was the clear winner. They are all great trikes, NONE of them are slow, and there are a lot more standards by which to judge one, than simply asking "whats the top speed?". They all have their strengths. They all have their weakensses (in comparison to each other). If a person can pick out which one is best suited for a specific situation, rather than simply proclaiming one of them "the best", then I can respect that they know what they are talking about instead of being someone who just reads too much and rides too little.

[Curtis-Tecate3]

Jeb, I didnt want to chime in as I am obviously a Tecate guy but I also disagree with the comparison posted here. If what they reported is true then there was something wrong with the Tecate that they tested. Take your hands off of the bars at 10 mph and the bars dance back & forth? Headshake and a Giant tank slapper that almost sent their supposed "Pro rider" off the track at the end of the straight. C'Mon guys. I do agree with the assesment on the suspension with the forks being soft and the swingarm short, at least for my weight... But some of the other stuff just doesnt sound correct like the front brakes etc.

Curtis.

[250R4Ever]

notice on all the speeds it says THEORETICAL speed at redline which means planned or worked out in the mind, NOT from experience. :!: :!: :!:

[Tecate performance]

its funny to read different magazines that test the same bikes, in this case the 86 top guns, and see how their comments about some bikes are totally different. it still happens to this day between magazines. i guess it depends on the test riders preferences and how well the test bikes are prepped going into it by the factory. regardless the honda comes out on top in either magazines, which it deserves. but the comments on the 86 tecate's forks sound like they didn't have enough oil in them or equal oil heights.

[Wickedfinger]

... again guys, I prefaced this with "I DIDN'T" post this to start any debates .... I simply said make your own conclusions. All I wanted to do was post an old magazine article that I found really interesting. The only real validity that I would give to any magazine shoot-out is the fact that most of the time they use a panel of riders, not just one, to come up with their results. Then again, usually only one guy writes the article - which can lead to bias I guess. Oh and Tim, come on, the articles proclamation that the Z is the overall winner had to put just a little smile on your face - I thought you would get the biggest kick of them all over it. 8)

[TimSr]

I really did enjoy the article very much, and am very glad you posted it! Gives lots of food for thought to those who worship the opinions of magzines. Maybe next time someone dares to disagree with the almighty "Dirt Wheels", it will not be automatically considered blastphemy! By posting this it made a much better point than "which is best". It made the point that the "experts" disagree drastically, which furthers the case that often "what is best" depends on the rider's preferences, body characteristics, riding style, and type of riding, and personal brand bias. It also adds evidence to the case that if you have concluded that any one of these machines is somehow slow in comparsion to the others, you are sadly mistaken. Ive never claimed the Z was the best or the "fastest" but it is annoying everytime somebody who has never ridden one tries to make the arguement that they are slow because they read it in Dirt Wheels. Too bad they didint stick a 350X in this comparison. They are way underappreciated too. Thanks for taking all the time to post the article!!!!

[atc250r]

Hey guys here is my 2 cents!

I have onwed, ridden, raced and reapaired all of these machines. I currently own all three of them as well. I also have that same article that I have read several times.

I actually think that article was pretty spot on if you compare it to several oppinions of other mags.

There are specific reasons that they don't get into for all of there findings that helped with the results of there test.

86 Tecate
- I love this machine and am restoring one this summer. It is by far the hardest to ride and the most finicky out of all three of the bikes. It takes a special rider to take a liking to this bike, and I have found that most are power hungry and like a bike that keep them right on the edge. The low end is almost non-existent when compared to the other trikes, though that can easily be fixed by changing the gearing, adding a pipe, and rejetting the engine. To compensate on the tope end I put a KX 250 Flywheel on mine so it still revs to the moon, which it will. It hits in the mid range and then gets scary on top because it never seems to stop pulling. Many people don't like this- Tecate riders usually do! It is kind of like people who really like banshees, they are all top-end and great desert bikes.
The Tecate suspension is soft, although much better than the 85. But, the springs should be heavier and were infact rated for a 150lb rider- What was Kawasaki Thinking? Show me a 150lb rider that can handle a Tecate? It isn't too common. But this results in the soft feel, and the consistenT blown shocks on tecates. The bike does have a high center of gravity, (It is the only one of the three with 10" rear wheels, hard to be low profile) and it is the biggest overall so it is a harder bike to throw around. The Engine is staright out of the 85 KX 250, less the KX porting and one gear, so it has no counter balancer and will vibrate considerable. But no balancer means less rolling weight, less resistence and more revs!
You will usually either find a tecate in perfect shape because it scared someone or beat to crap because they really liked it and didn't maintain it. It is a hrad bike to maintain as it could have been built much stronger, but the components are made with the intent of racing the bike which means you change parts constatly.
All in all the bike kicks ass and I love it!!!

86 250R-
Undoubtedly the best all around machine. Honda just has the recipe down the best for the widest range of riders. That's what happens when you get a 10 year pattent and a decade head start on everyone else. They bridged the gap the best between the racer and the play rider and the ATC 250r is more ready to switch between both bone stock for most people. The motor pulls hard all around and the 6 speed tranny is definitely appreaciated. I still think the ari cooled R's would be just as fast if they only had one more gear! It is very easy to work on, has great brakes, and rides very smooth. I just took mine out of a 3 year retirement and didn't even have to clean the carb, it all came back lik yesterday. The suspension works great, but it depends on when your 86 was released as to whether you have progressive fork springs or standard sprins, the later ones were progressive, this helps with the bumps. I can't say much bad about this bike as I raced it to victury several times and ride it constantly to play all for under $2000. I don't agree that the swingarm should be longer. I want a lite front end as it floats over bumps and will easily go where I want it to. That just me! ;)

86 TRI-Z 250-
The 86 is a big improvement over the 85. It wheelies so well because, duh, the gas tank is under the seat...lot of weight back there. The engine is strong but could hit stronger- Get rid of the stock exhaust it is much too constrictive. The biggest thing I don't like about the TRI Z is that it got what I like to call the "Yamaha Treatment", they wanted to stand out from other bikes so they did different things just beacause of that. Either that or they were designing the TRI Z back in the days of the YT 175 and never updated the patten design, of moving the weight to the back of center. Why would you put a fuel pump on a 2 stroke race bike? Yamaha did, and then didn't provide a rebuild kit for it- $135.00 for a new pump. This means 2 petcocks, and more things to break. Why put the gas tank under the seat putting more weight to the back of a vehicle with and already light fron end? It works because of the long stance but seems unecessary. The thermostat was a good idea but kind of impracticle on a bike like this, it malfunctions and makes th bike overheat. The suspension is decent, but the shock is weak and tends to blow. The brakes stop good and overall the ride is great. It also has a high center of gravity which makes it a little creepy in the turns stock, but some low profile tires fix that easily. It a great all around bike for play riding and being user friendly. I let most of my friends start on this bike to introduce them to 250 two strokes and they seem to like it. But for my money I bought the Honda first.

Each on has there own characteristics, and I like them all for different reasons. But if you are on a budget, what reliability with the edge of a race machine my recommendation would be the ATC250r. But- They are all kings in their own right. These are my thoughts.

If anyone wants to know more about these bikes I would be happy to share what I know. 3 wheelers rule and this site is great!

Mike

[ATC crazy]

2 cents...don't you mean $2 worth? lol :D

[atc250r]

Hey, I am also a writer, what can I say.

Oh can you guess that I love 3 wheelers??? :-D :-D

[3WheelsForever]

Well said atc250r!!