1985 ATC250R Questions?

[NewfieBish]

Hey guys, just recently I bought a 85 250R, and I dont have a clue about some of the things that needs done with it. Some things I need to know (its pretty common stuff):

- How much and what type of oil goes into the base of the engine, my dipstick is apparently cracked off.

- Whats a good level of air to have in the front forks

- how hard is it to replace a seal in one of the forks, its leaking air

- is that a coolant tank under the seat? if yes, whats the proper level of coolant to put in it

- whats the best fuel oil mixture?

any answers to any of these questions would help alot, this is my first 250r and i dont really know much about the technical side of them, in any case, heres a picture of it, i paid $1500 for it!! any answers are good ones! thanks.

[atctim]

- How much and what type of oil goes into the base of the engine, my dipstick is apparently cracked off.


There is no Dipstick on these models - there is a small 10mm bolt with phillips head also on the side case. you fill it until it just starts to come out of that hole. I think it is just around 1 US Qt if memory serves me. I use regular motor oil 10W40 - but they make good stuff especially for these trannys that you can get at any dealership. tell them what you have and they will set you up.



- Whats a good level of air to have in the front forks


The valve stems on top of the forks are to let the air out - not put air in. with temperature variations - you need to bleed them off sometimes to equalize with the outside air temp. and pressure Putting air into these, especially from a compressor will blow out your fork seals - don't do that.



- how hard is it to replace a seal in one of the forks, its leaking air


It is not that easy - but with a manual if you are mechanically inclined you can do it. If it is not leaking fork oil (but rather only air) - you don't need to replace them



- is that a coolant tank under the seat? if yes, whats the proper level of coolant to put in it


that tank under the seat is an overfolw resivoir - if the coolant gets too hot it blows back there - then it will pull it back into the radiator as the motor cools - calls for it



- whats the best fuel oil mixture?


This depends on who you ask or what kind of oil you use. The MFG says 20:1 - but that was written 20 some years ago. With advancements in 2 stroke oil - you can go way leaner. I use 32:1 and smoke more than most. Alot of guys run 50:1 and even 100:1. buy a good oil like Klotz, Amsoil, or Blue Marble and run it between 30:1 and 40:1 and you will be safe. You can make adjustments once you see how it runs with desired ration and brand.

Hope that helps - welcome to the boards. Have fun.:welcome:

[NewfieBish]

hey thanks man! that pretty much sums it all up haha im still a little unsure about the forks.. so do i put air in them? they're really bouncy there now, and im not really sure how it should be. i did put air in them with a compressor, not thinkin any different; when i did the forks tightened up for a nice while, however eventually they end up being really bouncy again (like, easy to compress)... so im not really sure whats goin on there haha, how do you work these things??

[Mosh]

You DO NOT put air in the forks.Those are to bleed air pressure out.
If your forks are squishy,then the springs are toasted,or there is no fluid in them.Or the fluid is so contaminated from age,it has lost its properties to dampen the forks.

Jack the trike up in the front with the tire off the ground,and remove the fork caps with the correct size wrench.
At the bottom of the forklegs,there are 2, 10 mm bolts.Remove those,and place a drainpan under the forks.Drain what fluid may be in there, it will probably be black and nasty.

Then pour in some ATF fluid thru the tops,and flush the forks out.
Re-install the 2 drain bolts,and add about 10-12 ounces(I dont remember the exact amount they take,but that is close) of ATF into each fork.Install the caps,and see how it feels.If it feels better,ride the bike,and see if fluid starts leaking out the seals.If so,you will have to replace the seals,and rebuild the forks.

[NewfieBish]

ok! thanks man, that makes sense, i see now how it works, id say it could be the age, the guy who had it before me never took it out of his shed for a LONG time, so yeah it could be pretty rotten, ill let ya know what comes out haha.

[devilman]

i was reading the manual about the fork seal replacement. it states to put 1 psi of air in the forks. how do you do that then?

[NINJA]

i was reading the manual about the fork seal replacement. it states to put 1 psi of air in the forks. how do you do that then?

With a bicycle hand pump.

[DeePa]

it says MAX psi = 1 psi...not to put 1 psi in after a rebuild


run them at 0

[Itrike]

From the looks of the pic you should be worried abought back brakes!!! Manual for the 85 250r forks calls for 13.52 oz of atf (lets see ya mesure that out lol)

[Mosh]

I only suggest ATF for testing purposes.Honda recomends ATF,but it was always too soft for me.If your seals are leaking,you wont be out a ton of money for trying the ATF.
After a rebuild,or if I know my seals are good,I run 10 weight frok oil in all my trikes.But that stuff is priceier than regular ATF.

I always change my fork fluid at least once every season.It helps the seals,last longer and keeps the performance there.

[ceaserthethird]

Did any one notice the 350X kicker ?

What about the 350X thumb throttle ?

[The Goat]

I honestly just dumped in some mobil1 synthetic 10w30. I'm a big guy it seems to help dampen it.

[NewfieBish]

oh man i do need brakes, i dont know why, but the dude who owned the bike before me decided he was confident enough he didnt need them haha, in any case im looking for a set, to buy it new is crazy. im gonna try usin ATF to see if its leakin, i guess if it is ill have to tear the forks apart.. so I take the bolts outta the top of the forks, the ones with the valves in them?

[Mosh]

Yes.Pull the tops off the forks.Make sure the front wheel is jacked up off the ground,so your springs dont push up out of the tubes.Then remove the 2 10mm bolts at the bottom of each leg.They will be on the sides of the fork legs.Let it drain,and flush it out with clean fluid.Pour in the tops of the forks,right past the springs.Install the drain bolts.

Then put in the 13 oz in each fork and see how it feels.If your seals are leaking,the tubes will have oil on them within a few hours.
If you see no leaks,then drain again,and go with 10WT fork oil,and see if that gets the front end better.You can also cut some pvc tubing about 2-3 inches,and add that to the tops of the springs befoire you put the caps on to preload the springs.

[edog]

I noticed a West coast swingarm?!?!?!?Maybe?

[NewfieBish]

thanks man, will do. i cant figure out what exhaust is on it, it obviously isnt stock because of the big swing as soon as it comes out of the motor, it almost looks like a DG exhaust, but then its been painted black like a stock one. i was driving the other day and a hole burst in the front of it, and when i actually took it off and looked at it, the whole front of the exhaust had been welded a pile of times, so im thinkin ill have to get a new pipe, or its gonna keep breakin holes

[NewfieBish]

I noticed a West coast swingarm?!?!?!?Maybe?

Im not sure man, theres a few chips taken out of the white paint and theres blue paint in under neath, so its hard to say what that is.. it almost looks like one though from the white hey man? is there any real way of telling if its a west coast?

[edog]

Post some better pics of the swingarm.

[edog]

thanks man, will do. i cant figure out what exhaust is on it, it obviously isnt stock because of the big swing as soon as it comes out of the motor, it almost looks like a DG exhaust, but then its been painted black like a stock one. i was driving the other day and a hole burst in the front of it, and when i actually took it off and looked at it, the whole front of the exhaust had been welded a pile of times, so im thinkin ill have to get a new pipe, or its gonna keep breakin holes

Looks like a pt pipe?!:wondering
http://www.duncanracing.com/ctgy/31
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h196/edog_02/big-ptratch-rfactory.jpg

[NewfieBish]

heres a picture of the swingarm, it should look a little better in this one. obviously the bike has had alot of stuff done with it over the years, it needs a nice bit of work though all the same. it almost does look somethin like a pt exhaust.. whats a good brand name of exhaust to get for a decent price?

[edog]

The swingarm looks to be stock.Just painted.

[NewfieBish]

The swingarm looks to be stock.Just painted.

Yeah i kinda figured, theres coats of paint underneath it. i dont know about the exhaust though.. in any case it wont have that one soon, you lose alot of fuel and power with the hole in the exhaust.. its not a big hole, its like a tear 2 cm long maybe, but its a good way to lose back pressure haha.. a question about an aftermarket exhaust.. if i get a chrome exhaust, would there be any problems with the front tire flicking mud and rocks at it while im drivin in mud and that? id have to figure somethin out so it wouldnt ruin the front of the chrome exhaust.. have anyone had any problems?

[edog]

Yeah i kinda figured, theres coats of paint underneath it. i dont know about the exhaust though.. in any case it wont have that one soon, you lose alot of fuel and power with the hole in the exhaust.. its not a big hole, its like a tear 2 cm long maybe, but its a good way to lose back pressure haha.. a question about an aftermarket exhaust.. if i get a chrome exhaust, would there be any problems with the front tire flicking mud and rocks at it while im drivin in mud and that? id have to figure somethin out so it wouldnt ruin the front of the chrome exhaust.. have anyone had any problems?

If your worried about stuff hitting the pipe.keep the old one on there and weld the gash.

[NewfieBish]

yeah i already welded it, it keeps breakin along with weld cuz the guy who had it before me welded in a plate of bronze.. and i dont think normal weld sticks to bronze well, but on another note, i took the black caps off the tops of the forks, and one of the bolts are in really hard shape, the people who had it before me barbourized it, i got the good one off, but the bad one is stripped way too bad.. i tried and theres no give, it'll just keep rounding out.. i dunno what to do, i might try filing the bolt into the right shape of a hexagon again and try a good 6 point socket i guess, any suggestions that might be better?

[edog]

Do you mean one of the shrader valves?

[NewfieBish]

Do you mean one of the shrader valves?

the aluminum bolt with the air-bleed valve in the middle yeah, its pretty stripped out.. the guy who had it before me must've gave it a good goin over with a standard size wrench or somethin, it was round when i first looked at it, so i filed it and tried using a normal wrench, but then it just stripped again.. i dont know what i should do now, i guess i could file it and use a 6 point socket?

[edog]

the aluminum bolt with the air-bleed valve in the middle yeah, its pretty stripped out.. the guy who had it before me must've gave it a good goin over with a standard size wrench or somethin, it was round when i first looked at it, so i filed it and tried using a normal wrench, but then it just stripped again.. i dont know what i should do now, i guess i could file it and use a 6 point socket?



Just to clear things up,your talking about the outside nut to remove it from the fork tube?
If so use a small pipe wrench to take it off.

[Dammit!]

You need a proper 250r thumb throttle as soon as possible. There's no way that one is opening up the carb all the way.

Your forks are also too high in the triple clamps. There's a line about one inch down from the top. Line that up with the top of the triple.

[Red Rider]

... so i filed it and tried using a normal wrench, but then it just stripped again.. i dont know what i should do now, i guess i could file it and use a 6 point socket?Newfie, with your forks slid down low in the tripleclamps the way they are, the top tripleclamp bolts, when tightened, are actually clamping down tight on the fork cap that you are trying to remove. On the fork that you can't get the fork cap off of, try loosening both of top, tripleclamp, bolts & then reattempt to remove the fork cap.

[NewfieBish]

man now that you said that, its really obvious that thats what could be causin the problem.. i noticed you had your forks high in the clamps as well, did you ever try to take the fork caps out without loosenin up your clamps red rider? nice bike by the way, i hope some day ill get my R lookin as good as some of the ones ive seen on this site. thanks for the suggestion, i never really thought of it!

[NewfieBish]

here i took a few close ups, of the thumb throttle, the fork cap that is torn up, and i also took a picture of the gas tank which i done a bit of sanding on, i cant believe how well it works! anyways, i took one of the thumb throttle so you could be sure if it was the right one or not..

[Red Rider]

... i noticed you had your forks high in the clamps as well, did you ever try to take the fork caps out without loosenin up your clamps red rider? nice bike by the way, i hope some day ill get my R lookin as good as some of the ones ive seen on this site.Yes I encountered the same problem. If the threads aren't boogered up, once the forkcap is loose enough that the o-ring is exposed, it will easily unscrew by hand. When I had the stock forks, I had the top of my forks even with the top tripleclamp, just as you do, because it was supposed to reduce headshake when braking hard from high speed. That's definitely the wrong thumb throttle for a 250R. Thanks for the compliments. This site is full of nice bikes to get ideas from. Good luck.

[NewfieBish]

yeah i got the caps off and fluid changed.. you shoulda seen the gunk that came outta it.. anyways, thanks for the help, i have just found out that one of the forks are leaking fluid haha. i guess thats somethin to do now. i was gonna ask, it might seem a bit foolish, but i cant seem to figure it out, its not really like any other bike, but what do you turn on the carb to adjust the idle? do you turn that plastic bolt or?? what?

[edog]

Brass screw with a spring behind it facing left of the carb setting on it.

[MyMistress86R]

FYI...Honda Factory Manual states:

1985 = 400cc fluid PER FORK
1986 = 460cc fluid PER FORK

For what you guys are paying for ATF and/or synthetic motor oil, you can get a quart of 3~50 weight FORK OIL at any ATV supply store that will do both forks. (You know better Rob...tsk tsk)

And changing the seals...if you know how to stage your parts as you take something apart so it's a simple reversal to put it back together, then replacing the seals is a joke.

[Mosh]

I only suggest ATF for testing purposes.Honda recomends ATF,but it was always too soft for me.If your seals are leaking,you wont be out a ton of money for trying the ATF.
After a rebuild,or if I know my seals are good,I run 10 weight frok oil in all my trikes.But that stuff is priceier than regular ATF.

I always change my fork fluid at least once every season.It helps the seals,last longer and keeps the performance there.

Whatcha be needing Todd?
Hooked on phonics:lol:

[NewfieBish]

hey i was lookin at the carb on my R and i dont think its the stock one, heres some pictures anyways, theres a black plunger thing circled in pink, you pull up on that for the choke, and then at the base of the plunger theres a plastic bolt, i think you turn that for the idle adjust, but then im not really sure. anyone know whats up with this carb?

[edog]

hey i was lookin at the carb on my R and i dont think its the stock one, heres some pictures anyways, theres a black plunger thing circled in pink, you pull up on that for the choke, and then at the base of the plunger theres a plastic bolt, i think you turn that for the idle adjust, but then im not really sure. anyone know whats up with this carb?

Thats a 86 carb.
Turn the black knob clock wise to increase the idle,counter to lower.Its a slightly better carb than the 85's.

Looks like the rear swingarm mite be an 86 as well.There is not the little standoff for the rear brake caliper torque arm.

What year does it say on your steerer tube?

[NewfieBish]

it says it was MFG 10/84.. so i guess the bike is a little bit of an 85 and a little bit of an 86 haha, anyways, the idle is completely tightened in, and it cant turn clockwise anymore, and the bike still wont idle.. i dunno, its only gotta go a little more, i keeps the gas on when im drivin, but its like i only gotta hold my thumb against it and the bike revs at idle speed.. too bad i cant adjust it just a little more! has anyone had this problem?