ATC no run

[Lukeatc185]

Hey everyone, i have a 1983 honda ATC 185. i have compression spark and fuel, and i have the 0 on the cam gear lined up with the magnito under the cdi cap and the line on the flywheel, pulled the cord 20 times, put fuel right into the cylinder tried quick start nothing, any 1 have any ideas?

[Brad200X]

Welcome to the boards Luke. Sounds like your intake or exhaust pipe could be clogged. I would check the airbox and header/muffler and see if anything crawled in their and made a home. I would double check the fuel, spark and timing first though. That's the only thing I can think of right now...

[Vealmonkey]

Fuel, Spark and Air are what make up the fire triangle. You say you have fuel and spark. That means I would seriously check into your air intake system to look for something not allowing air into the carb. Low compression will make the engine run really bad, but compression won't keep an engine from at least making an effort to start. You should at least have popping or back firing or something along those lines. You may want to make sure you haven't sheared a key in the top of the head or something that would keep the valves from opening or closing up or keep the cdi mechanism from turning. Best of luck with this and keep us posted as to what you find.

[Lukeatc185]

Thanks for the posts guys, i have the airbox off, rebuilt carb, no keys are missing valves open and close nicely. it is timed.. 100%, i get some air from the muffler when cranking it over. the only thing i can think of is a weak stator, i thought if it was weak i would get weak spark. but i get prime spark, but some 1 told me it still could be the stator and the pull cord isint enough turn to get it running, i should try push starting it. some one also told me if i had a bend or non seated valve it would not run, but if i had a bad valve i would lose compression though right?. i have great compression.

[Macs]

yes you would lose compression, if you have a strong spark it isnt the stator

[Lukeatc185]

well im completely frusterated at this point. i have no idea what i could be, ive checked the timing 100 different ways people have told me to check it. its dead on.. i have a professionaly rebuilt carb, fresh gas. and a prime blue spark. you can sometimes hear it its so good. the only thing i could think of is not getting spark on the combustion stroke.. but you can only have that off by half a rotation if your timing is right. and ive tried both positions for the CDI magnito and no start for either.

[outtaline]

is the plug getting wet?

[Lukeatc185]

it does get a little bit. but now that i think about it. not nearly as much as it should be for how much ive pulled the cord. what could this be with a fresh carb?

[outtaline]

what does it do if you spray starter fluid in the carb then pull it and not carb cleaner real starter fluid

[Lukeatc185]

like quick start? i tried sparying that into the carb didint work.

[outtaline]

then its not fuel funny one what does your oil smell like? gas?

[Lukeatc185]

smells like oil, but its not the nicest looking oil around. i really should change it. but i wanted it to run before doing that.

[outtaline]

how much compresion does it have

[harryredtrike]

make sure the carb was set to the correct settings.idle screw out 2 turns and mixture 2 turns out.the idle is on the right side of the carb and the mix is on the bottom of the carb.

[outtaline]

that wouldn't even matter if it doesn't even pop with starter fluid

[Lukeatc185]

i dont know exactly how much psi, but if i dont use the pressure relief valve on the side i cant almost lift the bike with the pull cord by the 3rd pull, everyone ive talked to said that got good compression.

[TexFest]

Have you tried pull starting it?

[Lukeatc185]

thats all i have is pull start.

[harryredtrike]

need back story.when was last time it ran?what was done after that?

[Lukeatc185]

bought it as a project, dont know when it last ran, cab was not that bad, and no mouse houses in the intake n such, tells me its only been sitting a year or more max, the frame was not seized and is still nice and lubed up, so it was kept inside. but before i payed 250 bucks for it :P lol. i checked compression, spark, and i made sure the carb was all intact. i figured from there, its only going to be minor stuff getting it running. but ive had no luck.

[Lukeatc185]

turned over nicely so i knew it was not seized or seizing, have to let out piston pressure every 3 pulls or u cant turn it over with the pull cord, so it had the compression needed to run, and it has nice spark. so whats holding it back? i have no clue been racking at my brain for a month now

[Lukeatc185]

timing is dead on too. been checked 100 times, by 3 different people. could this be a CDI issue??

[MonroeMike]

Have you tried pull starting it?

I think he means pulling it with another trike, quad, riding lawnmower, whatever...

[Lukeatc185]

no as soon as i get my tires back im going to try it, i had to take them to the local tire shop, there stuck to the rims and i need to sand around the bead cause they leak.

[charger]

r u getting fuel to it?

[Lukeatc185]

yep ive tried putting f uel right into the cylinder.

[rdlsz24]

You need compression, fuel, spark and air for it to run. Start checking them one by one. Sounds like you already have a couple checked off.

Rob

[trikes4life]

sounds like cdi is bad or was not put in right. did you check the gap between the cam and magneito.

[Lukeatc185]

i have a prime spark, and the gap between the magnito on the cam is perfect. i have compression fuel air and spark. no run. can the CDI effect this?

[atctim]

I suppose if it is not the correct CDI for this machine it would be possible to get good spark but at the wrong time!

[Lukeatc185]

so i should order a new CDI? i cant think of anything else that it could be.

[charger]

sounds like it

[Lukeatc185]

alright ebay it is!

[atctim]

wait wait wait - hold the boat - you need to verify if you have the correct CDI unit first.

[Lukeatc185]

i dont know how i would do that, it looks the same as the one ebay for my bike. theres no numbers on the box. just a brand name.

[Lukeatc185]

this is what mine looks like. add some mud.. some dust lol. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-ATC-185S-ATC185S-1981-1982-1983-CDI-Box---New-!!_W0QQitemZ350202436465QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090 516?IMSfp=TL0905161210011r3570

my CDI box does not have any of the numbers on it.

[atctim]

have you pulled it out of the bike and examined it really well. I think almost all HONDA OEM CDI boxes have stamped numbers on them.

[Lukeatc185]

im going to go grab it. ill let you know.

[Lukeatc185]

Says CI - 08 2.3 265 looks like the one in the link i posted.

[Lukeatc185]

an ATV mechanic just told me if i have a good spark, the CDI isnt the problem, cant get a straight answer about the CDI.

[Lukeatc185]

ok so update, i out my tires on, and had 2 friends push me down the street, had it in 3rd gear. was spinning the flywheel like crazy, still did not start, but i can smell a strong odor of gas, does that mean anything?

[atctim]

Have you checked the valves for proper clearance?

[Lukeatc185]

i have not, i dont know how, but if the valves were not seated properly wouldint i lose my compression?

[Lukeatc185]

did you also read the posts on my CDI box? the numbers read differint then the one on ebay for my trike, but they look the same otherwise. i dont know if its the right CDI box.

[Lukeatc185]

and please god tell me theres a way to check the valve clearance without removing the head.

[MonroeMike]

Yes. Follow the manual.

http://www.3wheelerworldforums.com/showpost.php?p=725071&postcount=3

[Tecate250]

Well it seems you still have yor hand full Luke. Sometimes even Hondas can be a pain in the ass. Hope you get it going. Sorry I could not help but you have come to the right place to get the answers you are looking for. 4 pages.

[Jim mac]

couple things come to mind. 1st Id put in a brand new spark plug. then pull the valve covers like was said earlier and check the valve clearance,
I would also check to see that the motor is on tdc then pull the cam cover and check to make sure the cam is installed correctly. After that, make sure your at tdc on the compression stroke, and see if the rotor is lined up to fire or 180* out of time. if its lined up, move the timing ind to where its suppose to fire, line up your rotor.
lastly, if your only getting some puffs out the exhaust, why not unbolt the pipe and try start it. maybe the exhaust is collapsed inside or full of packrat stuff. jim

[Lukeatc185]

Thanks for your input guys, i lose compression when i remove my valve cover, im pulling the head off today, i was going to yesteerday but i did not have a new gasket kit yet, i managed to find a GREAT PLACE www.royaldistribution.com they have real manufactured parts for tons of trikes. 30 bucks canadian for an entire gasket n seal set for a 185s thats awsome. i have the gaskets now im going to start dismantleinng the engine

[leokendall]

cupa things come to mind

is your pulsar still on it pin to the cam?
is your timming maginto lined up bike with the t or f on the flywheel?
is the wood ruff key in the magneto slipping?
fresh gas?
bike flooding out (try to start with the fuel shut off)
bad wire from the coil to the plug? (when u puts the cap on the plug the coil wire grounds out on the engine or has a break in it?)
i have know people to sell there bikes before because it wouldn't start and all it was, was bad gas
check your air filter?
choke open or close?
carb boot sealed tight?
right type of plug?( yes i have seen people using the wrong reach plug)
cam chain slack?
fouled plug?




take the plug out and look at it, and then pull the bike over a few tme and see if any spray come out of the spark plug hole.

the put yout thumb over the hole and pull her over kepping your finger as tight on the hole as you can.

[Lukeatc185]

thanks for your input also, but thats water under the bridge, ive rechecked all those things, i found i lost compression when i remove my valve cover, wich means valves or rings, or even a hole in the piston itself, when i bought the atc the owner said he had just put a brand new piston and rings in it also. i did not believe him but sure enough i pulled the head off today and its a brand new piston, top of it is black but brake cleaner brought it back shiny. the piston is almost new enough to eat off and from what i can tell it sits nice and snug with the rings in the sleeve. ive used sandpaper a gasket scraper and a wire brush, everything looks immaculate, i just need to take my valves in to be done professionally because i dont have the tools to mess with those springs n stuff.

[threewheelin]

so did you figure out what was keeping it from running. i have a atc 110 that is doing the same exact thing. so what ever you found is going to be what is wrong with mine.

[Tecate250]

Holy Luke. 108 post allready. I told you this was a great place. Its almost my home.

[bkmoos]

check the valves to see if they are opening and closing all the way you might want to recheck your valve ajustment.