87 250ES Questions

[K87_250ES]

Hello all I'm a noob to trikes.
I recently purchased an 87 Big Red and it needs a little TLC. The engine has a top end peck that I can't figure out. I tried adjusting the valves according to the Honda service manual but it didn't change anything. It starts easy, revs good, it just has the peck that I haven't been able to get rid of.
Any suggestions will be much appreciated.
Other than some minor rust on the frame under the rear fenders and needing a front rack, the one on it looks like somebody tried to up root a tree with it, it's in good shape.

[wolfspider]

Hello all I'm a noob to trikes.
I recently purchased an 87 Big Red and it needs a little TLC. The engine has a top end peck that I can't figure out. I tried adjusting the valves according to the Honda service manual but it didn't change anything. It starts easy, revs good, it just has the peck that I haven't been able to get rid of.
Any suggestions will be much appreciated.
Other than some minor rust on the frame under the rear fenders and needing a front rack, the one on it looks like somebody tried to up root a tree with it, it's in good shape.

i think your looking at needing a new cam chain, its hard to diagnose without hearing it but that would be my guess, of the 3 250es` i have owned i have replaced the cam chains on 2 due to a top end tapping, once done its like having a new engine again, only trouble is its quite an extensive job requiring a top end strip down and right crankcase removal as well as clutches and oil pump removal.
steve

[ScottZJ]

Dude you just dont know how many 87's I have heard with that problem. I have a mint 87 and rider. My rider is currently down due to that "tapping". My entire top end was toasted. I too, thought it was the valves needing adjusting. But after numerous times messing with them it didnt work. So I bought the chain to replace it. When I got inside (really a buddy of mine hehe), found out that it was not getting oil to the top end. For some reason, the 87s seem to have this problem. I would make sure you are getting oil up there, make sure oil if 100% full, and check the top end for issues. While you are in there, I would go ahead and replace the chain but the oil pump is always something to look at with these 87's.

[K87_250ES]

Oiling shouldn't be a problem, I started it with the valve covers off and it was spraying oil out at idle. I had kicked around the idea of replacing the chain but I hoped that it was something else.
Does the cylinder have to come off to replace it?
What causes the sound, slack in the chain hitting something?

Thanks for the help.

[honda 4h]

cam chain for sure. i just went through that with my 85 changed every thing valves, cam, chain tensioner,etc. off a good running motor with no noise with a bad bottom end . changed the chain and fixed the problem. it even seems to have more power.

[wolfspider]

Oiling shouldn't be a problem, I started it with the valve covers off and it was spraying oil out at idle. I had kicked around the idea of replacing the chain but I hoped that it was something else.
Does the cylinder have to come off to replace it?
What causes the sound, slack in the chain hitting something?

Thanks for the help.

i`m pretty sure it does, but you might get away with removing the side case, clutches and oil pump, then taking the cylinder head cover off, then the cam cog and drop the chain down into the bottom and use a wire to pull the new chain up.
might work, but its suck it and see!! if you have to remove the cylinder you`ll have to remove 2 barrel studs as the barrel and head don`t clear the frame otherwise.

[benb1984]

i know this thread is a bit long gone but i am having the same problem at the moment, ive pulled the cylinder head cover off and every thing seems fine, my mate said he can port and polish it for me and get everything good again if i buy the gaskets, the valves were miles out, but i dunno if that was all that was making the noise, it was deffinatly comming from the intake side of the top end
anyway ill see how i go, i was thinking if i joined the new chain to the old chain and just pulled it through like that i could change it.. would this work? any help would be great...

[wolfspider]

i know this thread is a bit long gone but i am having the same problem at the moment, ive pulled the cylinder head cover off and every thing seems fine, my mate said he can port and polish it for me and get everything good again if i buy the gaskets, the valves were miles out, but i dunno if that was all that was making the noise, it was deffinatly comming from the intake side of the top end
anyway ill see how i go, i was thinking if i joined the new chain to the old chain and just pulled it through like that i could change it.. would this work? any help would be great...

The chains are sealed and not like a drive chain, i suppose you could in theory, but you`ll probably damage something trying to rivet the chain back together, i think the only proper way is the hard way.

[Lukeatc185]

can you not change the tension to get it to stop? my 185s has a loud peck, ajusted the chain tensioner bolt, for the cam chain and it stopped.

[wolfspider]

can you not change the tension to get it to stop? my 185s has a loud peck, ajusted the chain tensioner bolt, for the cam chain and it stopped.

no the 250es is auto adjuster, so if its rattling then the adjuster is at its full tension and can`t adjust any more. if you want a botch fix, you can weld a nut on the end of the adjuster to give it more length, but its not something i would do or recommend lol:naughty: :twisted:

[Lukeatc185]

yea i wasint to sure if you could with the 250es, but it was worth a comment :) btw with a magnetic stick, i use them for picking up bolts n nuts i drop in bad places. u can replace the cam chain without removing anything but the valve cover and jug.

[Lukeatc185]

i didint replace mine but i dropped it into the case when i redid my top end. i managed to get it back with the magnet. i dont see why you could not do the same to replace it.

[Lukeatc185]

i bought my magnet stick from princess auto for 9.99, looks just like an antenna for a RC car i guess, except the tip is a high powered magnet.

[Dirtcrasher]

Unfortunately you have to remove the ignition cover/flywheel and or the clutch cover (depending on the manual) and oil pump assembly to get that chain on.

I ALWAYS replace the cam chain, the guide and tensioner guide when I have it apart. The chain itself is great but please do both guides. They are all at least 25 years old!

Then adjust the valves and you'll be good.

Like the other guys mentioned, you have to make sure everything is done right in the topend too. Some holes are meant to be plugged.

Honda specifically put in a plug in an oil gallery to force the oil in another direction. This was because they had to machine a hole in one oil gallery to mate with another oil source, then they plug where they started drilling from.

Even if oil splashes around, it does not mean that the oil is being forced through rocker arm shafts, the cam or other places the oil was meant to go.

More than likely though, you need a new chain, the guides and clean out your oil screen and or oil filter rotor on machines without a specifically designed oil filter like the 350X and 250SX.

[K87_250ES]

I'm finally going to replace the cam chain. What brand do you guys recommend? Does anybody offer a kit with the chain, guides and needed gaskets?

Thanks for any help!

[Dirtcrasher]

If you can get Honda, get Honda! You can get a DID chain but my philosophy is always that Honda lasted over 20 years, so stick with Honda!

Dennis Kirk did offer a chain guide set (fit the 185, 200 and other CC machines) and they looked to be well made when I placed them next to stock Honda. I think some of it fit the 85 and the 86 200X. I was happy with the quality :D

Not that it matters, but I needed a timing chain and guides for a 22RE Toyota truck motor, the parts from Pep Boys were cheap and I already felt play in the chain........ Then I went to another store and he said it looked like "repackaged OEM" and thats what I bought and used. I returned the other junk.

I generally do like DID chains though but if it were a 30% price difference, I'd get the OEM chain myself based on it's longevity.............

THESE are the parts we better stock up on. We can always get another gear/shaft blah blah blah but when the wear items go bad, especially ones as critical as cam chain guides, I think anyone who plans on keeping there toys had better get a few, just to have them! Oil pumps are another part we had better stock. You can't mess with those guides as far as homemade goes....Some other stuff can be built, such as what Jeswinehart has done for us and so far his stuff is nothing short of excellent and or spectacular!

But, bearings, valves, pistons, exhausts, plastic and other stuff SHOULD be around for quite some time, or so we all hope...........

The rest of the stuff we can weld, grind, bore, braise, cast, inject, form, groove and add to no matter how beat they get. Although there are a ton of 250R's , they get BEAT and those parts (like the left engine case) may become harder and more expensive for you guys in the future.

Stock up on what you love and hope to get by the 20 or so years of riding you have left in your system. Sadly, many of us pass this along to r children and I doubt another generation is gonna skate by as well as we have.

Long live the websites - 3WW, .ORG, Air foolers, Planet trike ETC ETC!! - And thanks to all of you that try and repair/preserve these parts that can AND SHOULD NEVER!! be considered to be a "throw away" item :beer None of it! Store it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the rant.............................................. .................................................. ....Wrong topic and time, but I just kept rolling :D

[Honda_Dude]

DC is right. The right side crankcase cover HAS to come off to get the cam chain off of (and back onto) the lower gear. Both clutches also have to come off. The cylinder (jug) does not.

A buddy of mine did 2 cam chains on his V-Twin Honda Shadow all from the top side by breaking and re-pinning the chains. He was a happy camper as the engine has to come out of the frame on this Shadow normally. I wouldn't recommend it however.

If you're at all mechanically inclined and take your time, follow the HONDA manual, etc. it's really not that bad of a job.

[muddog]

have to replace the cam chain on my '86 250es just called the dealer for prices looks like it will cost just over $200cad (i hope santa has a big wallet this year):w00t:

[Dirtcrasher]

CRAZY A-hole dealer.............

All you guys should go to Service Honda, they're 40% cheaper than your local dealer.

Bettencourts Honda (My local dealer) as an example; When I told him what I paid from SH, he said "thats impossible!! "I can't even shipo them here for that cost."

So, I came back the day I got my Genuine Order, he wasn't there, but I passed it all along and explained it all to the guys and stated thats why they couldn't stay in buisness forever, I give them 1 or 2 more years...............

Call SH and tell them 3WW sent you :D

I'd easily pay 100$ for a chain that takes nearly 20 years to wear out; all day long!!.............

ENJOY!!

[K87_250ES]

I called my local dealer and it will be $240. Checked with SH online is $170. Thanks for the heads up on Service.