Thesis for CPSC Ban on ATCs

[TrailerRider]

your welcome mecca. the info is there for all to read and pass an informed judgment based on the FACTS not the rumors and na sayers ideas. Ya get me a copy of the letter as well and I will post it onthe site as well.

[code200k]

3wheelmecca, sounds good! I might even just post it as an article on the front page, as well. Seems like we might need a whole section dedicated to the "consent decree" to cover all the basis.

Billy i like that idea. i am doing my senior research paper (10 pages) on the ban on trikes.basically what mecca is doing that info would be great for my essay.when and if i ever finish this essay i would gladly send you and trailrider a copy for you guys to pout parts on 3ww and his site.

[ChrisD]

sweetip2000 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles Add as Contact Send Email
Registered User
Arm chair racer
Join Date Feb 2003
Location New York
Posts 51 I used to ride in NJ at a place called sterling forest back in the 1980's. It was part of the Appalachian trails.
I saw these trikes emerge and I was riding motoX at the time. We saw these big ass trikes come ripping around a trail and had to get over. My dad told me to get out of their way and get off to the side of the trail. So we gave them the right of way. We didnt have to but this is what I was told to do.

There are irresponsible riders that dont want to share a trail. That is an attitude problem.
I dont have to roost anyone to get my point across. Hey I just want to have fun and ride.

When you have hikers back packers walking a trail and a biker rips into them then the biker is not
thinking ahead of a blind turn or hill in thick wooded trails.

This is the reason Sterling Forest in NJ was closed. Its not always the bike that is dangerous.
Usually its the biker that is a ham fisted throttle jockey that doesnt know basic trail etiquette or cant handle
their bike when the is down turning or braking.

This was one of the best places I ever rode in my life and it was ruined by a few assholes.
Thats when the lawyers and insurance companies made a big stink over the sport and it was ruined for all for ever.

This place had trails that went for hundreds of miles. The original trails the settlers made.
What a shame. I saw all the trikes riding there back in the 1980's.

Dried rocky river beds. Sand pits with huge hill climbs. Mud bogs. Swamps. Trails. Huge table tops and whoops. All gone.

Sorry, but that may have been me and a bunch of my friends. We grew up riding in Sterling Forest and did ride it fast. Unfortunately, you are only partially correct. Sterling Forest was owned by an insurance company and at the time, there was a huge push to ban ALL ATV's. The insurance company shut down Sterling Forest in 1987, just as the negative legal environment peaked at the time. NOT because of excessive accidents there.

The insurance company was trying to develop the property at the time and shut down all riding in NY AND NJ. This saga played out until the property was sold to NYS with the help of the Federal Government. There was a long term plan for that property that was never realized due to the collapse of real estate prices in the region in the late 1980's.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/02/ny...l?pagewanted=1


Read this book and it will tell you the story:
http://www.sunypress.edu/p-4359-savi...ng-forest.aspx

The property actually goes back to the Harriman family and Union Pacific Railroad.

Threewheelers were not the problem there....it was WAY bigger than a couple of us riding in the woods before they shut it down.

http://www.nynjctbotany.org/whudson/sterlhis.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/14/re...l?pagewanted=1

[riverrat]

I live a few hundred feet from Sterling forest and can attest to what ChrisD is saying.
Nobody wishes more than me that we could ride there right now.

[Dirtcrasher]

You said before you read the essay, so I was looking for the essay.

I have a great idea, which I was recently going to put in a rant thread. You see, nothing pisses me off more than the fact that this happened with the 3wheelers. Logically it makes no sense whatsoever. I think it is a huge infringement on our freedom, and totally anti-American. You see logically, you can compare riding a 3wheeler to freedom of speech. We have the freedom to say what ever we want. That doesn't mean we should stroll on into a biker bar, and start throwing insults around, and cursing people out. Most likely you will get hurt. So it's the user of the speech, not the free speech itself that is dangerous. Secondly you can compare it to our right to bare arms. Obviously if you use a gun incorrectly, someone could get hurt, yet we are allowed to have one, and it is our free right to do so.
Guns are manufactured, and come with warning labels.
Speech does not even have a warning label, but it is common sense not to use speech incorrectly. Matter of fact, some people have been damaged for life by certain things that were said to them.
Obviously, off-road riding is dangerous. No one is holding a gun to your head saying you must buy this 3 wheeler. It is a decision you make on your own, just like things you say.
The real problem with America, is out Justice system, and the courts where they decide things like banning 3wheelers.
If the government wanted to do something to help us, they would provide free training courses on how to ride off-road, and ATV's, and spend money educating the public on just exactly what they are. That's for all the idiots who can't figure it out for themselves, and for a few that aren't idiots, but could stand to use some knowledge on how to ride.
It took me a long time to understand how to ride a 3wheeler. But I went slowly, and fully understand the risk I was taking, just like the risk you take when you cross the street.
Too me, I find dirt bikes more scary to drive, and my 4x4 up in the rocky terrain scares the crap out of me. I am scared to death of winding up with it's 600lb weight on top of me.

It's like the story of the girl who fell in a clearly marked hole in the sidewalk while texting. It was the hole's fault because she wasn't looking where she was going? That's the country we've become, and to tell you the truth, I am sick of it. If you trip on the ground, are we to sue the ground? Everything in life has it's dangers. I want to be free to enjoy them.

Very well said!

And so true...... It's up to US to watch what we do and do it carefully, yet still make it enjoyable.

I like your gun analogy - if people can't read warning labels and be trained as to how to use something, how can you go after the manufacturer for making a "deadly product". Doesn't EVERYTHING require some sort of training??

I have had far worse accidents (DC knocks on wood) on my old 1994 CR250 (sold it) and on quads than I have with trikes.

I'm not certain it was you, but someone broght up the fact that when ATC's came about, dirtbikes were the norm and putting your foot down when turning or even when you know your angled, possibly going over, you STILL cannot put your foot down and have to use body english to avoid an accident. It's just how it is and quads have the same issue.

With trikes and quads, the problem is that when the engine is "OFF" and you just hop on one (even if your a 4yo kid) and they SEEM to be very stable. Trikes and quads require some body english and a trike require a bit more body english because it's a triangle and not a rectangle. But EITHER will bite you in the arse if your not trained properly and know how to be careful, what to watch for, and how to get use to how a trike reacts to the terrain and different situations.........

Regardless of it being an ATC or quad, they aren't low to the ground (such as a go-cart where you can get away with ALLOT!) and you have to watch where you going and know that if an object is going to hit the RR tire, lean towards that object.
If an obstacle were on the left, then a person should be trained to lean towards the left. And with ANYTHING: Dirtbike, Streetbike, Quad, Trike and or a Golf cart etc etc, you ought to be trained to lean forwards when climbing hill or unintentionally giving something far to much gas in a low gear which results in the front end lifting up.
They should also be trained to hit the rear brake pedal when the front end lifts. It should be explained that stalling the engine is better than flipping over backwards.............
And even more advanced (for a rider navigating different terrains with hills and such), a rider should be trained to understand that if the throttle is held wide open during a "nose dive" off of a jump that the centrifugal force ( I understand that word but centrifical is apparently the wrong spelling! but I always spelled and hear it pronounced in that manner??I give.......) spinning the rear wheels can get you closer to leveled out.

It's all about taking time to learn how to ride a trike and that wearing your protective gear should always be top priority.......

In the end, all the stories have one similarity - THE RIDER!! and operator error...................

[DixiePlowboy]

The only rider training I ever had was riding and wrecking. Back in '82 or '83, you took off and learned to avoid hitting the ground the hard way....by NOT doing what you did last time...lol. I can honestly say that the last 3-wheeler I wrecked was in 1985...a 350X when I was 12 or 13 and that was my fault. There were several before that one though.

Went to a local "ATV" park for the first time yesterday, only to find that it's only open to quads. No dirt bikes or 3-wheelers specifically stated on the sign. My quad-riding/new to 3-wheelers-but now loving them-buddy ranted 5-minutes after we turned around about how unfair that is.

The place doesn't have insurance prohibiting 3-wheelers or bikes. It's just ignorance and misconception on the part of the owner/operator.

That's fine with me. i didn't want to ride in a mud bog anyway, much less pay $15 per machine to do so. Besides, i know another place he rides open to me...no fee....and I'll dust his prissy, lifted mud buggy-riding arse there next time I see him....on behalf of all my outlaw 3-wheeler riding brothers and sisters here.

[Dirtcrasher]

We have a forest here that they only allow dirtbikes.

Anyone thats owned a dirtbike knows that they make ruts, single line DEEP ruts, so why they allow some vehicles and not others has me confused sometimes??

"Tread Lightly" is just fine and a great concept. There are places to get on the gas, and places to ease through without making any more damage or limited damage to the environment. If there making "skate board" parks, why not a dirtbike/ATV/ATC park with funds coming in, maybe including 5$ to park. We'd have no issue with that whatsoever.

Yeah, those 4x4 quads with 27" tires don't harm the environment like those rotten three wheelers do!!

It's funny, I got the major portion of my track done a few years back. It stands up really well (maybe the type of dirt plays a roll) but everytime I let a guy out there with a dirtbike, I have huge/deep ruts everywhere; Buts thats all they allow in Freetown State Forest, go figure.......................

I rarely have to go out and fix up the face of the jumps, we don't need to power into them to clear a 90' jump. Just nice and easy and you can land flat on the tabletops or gas it enough to clear it.

Although it won't be anytime soon, I plan on making all the jumps larger and longer. I'm getting older but I can still ride OK once I'm loosened up and I HOPE I'm allowed to enjoy my own measly 2.5 acres. Half of that is a track, but who cares! Thats what the land was bought for - PERIOD!!

10 acres would be better, but that's a "someday" thought, certainly not in my near future. At least I border about 50-70 acres of a gun club and they claim the land is ruined from all the lead bullets and will never be sold; I'll deal with the noise to preserve the land and wildlife and you've got no leg to stand on as far as noise from a "dirtbike track" when it borders a gun club . I use to chew the lead from bullets when I was a kid, maybe thats why I'm a lunatic sometimes??!!, but at least I'm a "smart" lunatic
All I know is that I'm just trying to survive in this economy and I'm fortunate for what I have and the past decisions I made

[3wheelmecca]

There are NO ATV areas whatsoever in Colorado, northern at least. the closest place is 200 miles away and the vehicle has to have full OHV tags and registration. My buddy had a 250R there and got kicked out at the gate with paperwork. good thing I have 72+ acres of land behind my house too mess around on, but no dunes . There is a secret spot though, totally under the table, its almost like a miniature mountain, but no trees, and at the entrance there is a metal scarecrow on top of a 62 chevy suburban that is ratted out. I am trying to muster up the balls to go there.

[Billy Golightly]

This thread motivated me to start working on this http://www.3wheelerworld.com/content...28Trike-Ban%29 section. Anyone that is interested in helping/working on it, is more than welcome to. I just ask/request that the writing be articulate and pretty high quality. You guys' senior thesis papers will be fine I'm sure. I'm a high school drop-out so just about anything should pass


I have much more CPSC press-release resources I will be writing overviews for on in the near future. Some stuff that'll make you guys want to throw rocks at politicians, no doubt.