Having some fun with the National Product Safety Commission…

[RIDE-RED 250r]

It wasn't my intended vision... to have a "1 trike per household minimum" but more of a "Hey (CPSC), now that you have basically eliminated an entire form of recreational vehicle based on skewed/biased information why not come clean and admit you were wrong"... will it make parts available? likely not, would small custom shops like TPC have an easier time marketing their conversions? perhaps but that doesn’t mean that they will become popular and sell 1000 a year... If I lead anyone into thinking Honda has a boat load of 250r's waiting at Customs for the ban to be lifted, I'm sorry, hell we can't even get most of the manufacturers to import full sized 2strokes any more... This thread came about because I was reading the portion of the lead ban legislation that pertained to ATV's and the way they backdoored a technical ban of three wheelers into it... I pissed mo off so I wrote a letter, the boiler plate / textbook responses I got pissed me off more so I continued to respond... In order to not sound like a pesky idiot I read more and more into the available information about the consent decree and other available info and guess what, yepp ... more pissed, then I posted it here thinking that some people would get a shred of enjoyment out of it... Do I think it will create a time warp and put us back to 1984? No, but will i continue to stand my ground and believe that it was a biased decision based on public panic? Yes, Will it make any difference whatsoever? Probably not, but I don’t mind being brutally honest with someone, in this case it's the CPSA... I may be a little bullheaded and set in my ways but I've never been one to take a certin path just because the guy next to me took it, I always take the one I think is right and hey sometimes I'm wrong, but being hated for who I am is a thousand times better than being liked for who I'm not, unfortunately in todays world that makes me somewhat of an outcast

Its a nice little system they have going isnt it. Reminds me alot of congress and their incessant earmarks they attach to every bill that gets shoved through.....

I get your point on this and it IS very interesting on the upside, but at the same time depressing on the downside to see in front of our eyes the way these bureaucracies take more and more control over decisions we should be able to make for ourselves as citizens....

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Someone said it best, that maybe these efforts would be better concentrated on keeping ride areas open.

Drawing any more attention to "trikes" or the already "negative ATV stereotype", is much like throwing raw meat in front of a pack of rabid wild dogs.

Great point! There are countless environ-MENTAL-ist groups out there lobbying to close all public lands to what they call "Thrill-craft".
Somebody over in Dootalk posted a link up to these crackpots last year... just one example, and the propoganda is nausiating http://www.stopthrillcraft.org/


apologies for being a here

[tri-Z ripper]

I appreciate what HuffieVA is doing. Always stand with your chin held high. Come on everyone between Gun Laws, ATV ownership in general and the limited riding areas we have no should be stood up against! Keep up the good work and remember everyone has nay sayers

[NINJA]

Great point! There are countless environ-MENTAL-ist groups out there lobbying to close all public lands to what they call "Thrill-craft".
Somebody over in Dootalk posted a link up to these crackpots last year... just one example, and the propoganda is nausiating http://www.stopthrillcraft.org/


apologies for being a here

I actually watched that entire video. I love how they portray anyone who likes to enjoy public lands via "thrillcraft" as a self-centered, destructive, upper class American (here's to stereotyping). They said that there are more hikers using these areas than ORVs? They really are delusional! They used the B-word way to many times to push their agenda also. We deal with these eco-terrorists everyday here in Moab. The majority of trails here are on slickrock, you can't damage it with your vehicle and nothing lives on it, it's friggin' rock! Yet somehow these people manage to get more and more trails closed. It's a business really, and they make a lot of money from it. Most people love joining a "cause." It's true though, there are idiots in every group.

I guess what I learned from that video is: WELCOME TO YOUR PUBLIC LANDS: NOW GET THE HELL OUT, UNLESS YOU AREN'T DISABLED AND CAN AFFORD TO TAKE THE TIME OFF TO HIKE 40 MILES TO SEE YOUR FAVORITE SAND DUNES!

[TrailerRider]

Well took them almost 3 months to repspond but I sent a letter welol email as well..

My Letter to them:

This past April I received my FOIA request for 3 wheeled atv data that you all put together for me, thanks for that it is very much appreciated. I have been reading over the 1000’s of pages and noticed that there is supposed to be a mandatory safety standard created for 3 wheeled ATVs. Who governs when the standard is going to be created? Or I guess a better question is who lead on this project? I would like to see how the progress is coming along for the standard. From what I have read this is the only thing holding the 3 wheeled ATVs from being built or imported again. I believe this is a mandatory standard that is to be created by the CPSC? Do you have any idea where I can find in the information I am looking for? If you do please forward me their contact info including an email address. Please let me know either way.



Thanks again for your efforts,



Rich

Their response...

Dear Mr. Torres:



Thank you for your inquiry about three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles (ATVs). Please note that the comments in this response are those of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (“CPSC” or “Commission”) staff, and they have not been reviewed or approved by, and may not necessarily reflect the views of, the Commission.



In your message, you asked about development of a mandatory safety standard for three-wheeled ATVs. The CPSC has not initiated development of a mandatory standard for three-wheeled ATVs because the CPSC does not believe that such a standard is feasible. Nor has Congress directed the agency to do so.



In 2006, the CPSC initiated a rulemaking proceeding that would ban the sale of three-wheeled ATVs. The Federal Register notice that describes the ban, and the CPSC’s reasons for proposing a ban and for not developing a safety standard for three-wheeled ATVs, can be found at www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr06/066703.pdf, beginning on page 45914 of the notice (or “page 12 of 60” of the pdf document) and continuing to page 45915.



There are times when Congress has directed the Commission to develop a standard or to complete a rulemaking. This is not the case with three-wheeled ATVs. In August 2008, Congress passed the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (“CPSIA”). Subsection (c) of Section 232 of this Act states:



Until a mandatory consumer product safety standard applicable to 3-wheeled all-terrain vehicles promulgated pursuant to this Act

is in effect, new 3-wheeled all terrain vehicles may not be imported into or distributed in commerce in the United States. Any violation

of this subsection shall be considered to be a violation of section 19(a)(1) of this Act and may also be enforced under Section 17 of this Act.



This section does not require the Commission to issue a safety standard for three-wheeled ATVs; rather, it states that as long as there is no such standard, three-wheeled ATVs may not be imported into or distributed in the United States. (A copy of the CPSIA can be found at www.cpsc.gov/cpsia.pdf). The Commission is not working on such a standard, and the moratorium in the CPSIA continues to apply.



Again, thank you for your inquiry. I hope that the information above is useful.



Sincerely,

Elizabeth W. Leland

Project Manager, ATVs

U. S. Consumer Product Safety Commission

eleland@cpsc.gov

301-504-7706

This is not over... I am going to respond to it and well see what happens.

[volfan537240]

go get em!!!

[Louis Mielke]

Why are you trying to tick people off? Why? Just look at the links that everyone posted. They already hate us. Why are you trying to give them more ammunition? This is foolishness. If it would actually help then I'd say go for it but EVERYONE knows this will help in no way and in effect will get us negative attention.

[TrailerRider]

Because it is more then just 3 wheelers. It is a matter of elected people not doing as their told to do so. You are told by congress to do something and you just keep putting it off. That is wrong. They will never out law 3 wheelers. If they did this they would have to outlaw street bikes as well, old people carts, cop cars etc. They should have made this already and they blatantly refuse to. That is wrong. I will not sit back and watch them do the typical government bs. You can if you so feel the need to sit back and watch the world go around. I will not. Plain and simple. By allowing this type of thing to happen your only enabling that kind of bs. They will not come in your yard and take away our 3 wheelers.

[HuffieVA]

Why are you trying to tick people off? Why? Just look at the links that everyone posted. They already hate us. Why are you trying to give them more ammunition? This is foolishness. If it would actually help then I'd say go for it but EVERYONE knows this will help in no way and in effect will get us negative attention.

Within the "Consent Decree" the CPSC agreed with the manufactures that there was no apparent design flaw of the three wheeled ATV, What this means is “Honda” was smart and refused to agree that the machines themselves were as fault (well at least on paper). Because the Consent Decree is a legal document agreed to by the CPSC the cannot place an outright “BAN” on three wheeled ATV’s. Otherwise they would have gone away nearly entirely just like “Lawn Darts” (although I still have several sets of those as well). The fact is that Honda nor any other large scale manufacturer manufacture them again. The only chance of having a small scale company (along the lines of Tiger) producing them again is to get a standard passed. You can argue that things will get worse by requesting one but in reality its not feasible for them to demand a recall because they (the CPSC)would have to foot the bill, as the manufacturers became exempt with the signing of the consent decree. So in essence we have what we have unless we convince them to produce what they are arguably required to do (i.e. produce a standard). Its not about pissing anybody off, its simply about standing up for what one believes is right, in this case it’s the freedom of choice and free enterprise. I understand that everybody doesn’t see things the same way and I’m fine with that but heres the real deal…

We are constantly loosing choices, whether it be the ability to purchase a trike, or finding places to ride. We loose places to ride because nobody can agree to stand up for their rights and the “Tree Huggers” have nothing better to do than assemble and complain, but hey that’s their right and the exercise it, if the trike or the 2-Stroke community for that matter would stand up for what they believe in (or in the case of trikes if they would have) we may still be out numbered but at least we wouldn’t go unnoticed. Even though we ride machines that were in most cases produced over twenty five years ago we need to look to the future to secure the very existence of the sport or it will simply fade into old memories and there will be finger pointers playing the blame game, there will be those that set back and slowly watched it disappear, but even in failure there will be those that made some attempt if even a small one to secure a place in society for machines we enjoyed so very much.

I tend to stand up for what I believe in be it wether it be for gun rights, against school uniforms, severe punishment for crooked cops and a laundry list of other things, but most of all a believe in applying common sense to every day situations, for example:

"If you dont do anything, nothing good can come of it"

[HuffieVA]

Because it is more then just 3 wheelers. It is a matter of elected people not doing as their told to do so. You are told by congress to do something and you just keep putting it off. That is wrong. They will never out law 3 wheelers. If they did this they would have to outlaw street bikes as well, old people carts, cop cars etc. They should have made this already and they blatantly refuse to. That is wrong. I will not sit back and watch them do the typical government bs. You can if you so feel the need to sit back and watch the world go around. I will not. Plain and simple. By allowing this type of thing to happen your only enabling that kind of bs. They will not come in your yard and take away our 3 wheelers.

Well said ....

[Bryan Raffa]

I Agree!! well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RamsesRibb]

New Zealands looking better every day.

[oscarmayer]

it's ok I sent her an emaiul asking for a date of standard to be drafted and also explained her "ban" was not a ban but the arbitrary agreement between the gov and the manufacturers. Then i wnet further and informed her that if she was not so willing to follow the mandate (order) from congress that I woudl ensure it was publicized with ehr name aned photo attached to the article as well. Headlines like "Killing our rights?" or "Rogue operations in the government?" . People liek her are the reason the government is so screwed up. they think because theya re in charge of their little area they can do what ever they want and act as if they are a god. If we do not get a date from then I saw the nest step is to inform our local congressmen and even draft up letters for the press and the president to read. I think they all would liek to know that the safety board is ignoring the safety laws mandated by congress and are doing what ever they want.

Law suit against her and her department? Maybe....

[HuffieVA]

it's ok I sent her an emaiul asking for a date of standard to be drafted and also explained her "ban" was not a ban but the arbitrary agreement between the gov and the manufacturers. Then i wnet further and informed her that if she was not so willing to follow the mandate (order) from congress that I woudl ensure it was publicized with ehr name aned photo attached to the article as well. Headlines like "Killing our rights?" or "Rogue operations in the government?" . People liek her are the reason the government is so screwed up. they think because theya re in charge of their little area they can do what ever they want and act as if they are a god. If we do not get a date from then I saw the nest step is to inform our local congressmen and even draft up letters for the press and the president to read. I think they all would liek to know that the safety board is ignoring the safety laws mandated by congress and are doing what ever they want.

Law suit against her and her department? Maybe....

Oscar,
With the purpuzlee mizpelled werdz, the sarcasm sticks out like a sore thumb. I respect your opinion but I have my own as well. History shows that small groups of “idiots” and even individual “idiots” have started many things in this world, both good and bad, both helpful and harmful ranging from founding this country, to inventing the automobile, to creating Nazi Germany and spearheading prohibition and outlawing machine guns.
Never underestimate the power of an “idiot”, after all a group of them lead to the “Ban” in the first place didn’t it? So perhaps another group of them could change that.
Just some food for thought…

[hang&rattle]

Good job guys. Two Montana senators and the rogue Governor have pushed through more opening of federal public land in Montana in a sense. Also Governor Schweitzer is moving forward on our gun rights. A new designated atv park is scheduled, but as of now who knows where. And have been fallowing the local (MT) ATV poker runs etc., now there are 4 yearly poker runs, and even more get-together. I am writing this to let folk know that the proposed taxation and lurking ban on atv's is going, at this point, in the opposite direction in MT. Also there are 2 atv tracks in my area with local races and now 4 atv dirt drags and mudbogs. This is because MFMU, 'Montanan's for Multipul Use', fought for public use of public lands and recreation. And I have said before, folks love the three-wheelers here, had more conversation and friendships made while at the car wash yesterday. What really pushed the use of atv's was the farmers using these as a non-recreational vehicle absolutely for farm work. Our own governor is an atv user. So speaking for our given rights promotes usage. Proud to know fellow enthusiasts who will stand, thank you gentlemen- Robby.