Maybe I sound stupid: But the crank turns 2X for every revolution of the cam. It shouldn't matter if the chain were 5 miles long?? It wouldn't be any different than an extended swinger, same gearing, just a longer chain.
Or, I'm nuts.............
Power User
Catch me if you can
Maybe I sound stupid: But the crank turns 2X for every revolution of the cam. It shouldn't matter if the chain were 5 miles long?? It wouldn't be any different than an extended swinger, same gearing, just a longer chain.
Or, I'm nuts.............
All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country
Power User
4 Wheels? Huh?
Originally Posted by Dirtcrasher
You are 100% right. The chain length and the spacer don't mean a thing to the timing.
80s......185 atc, Yamaha tri-moto 200, 85 200x with tons of work
90s......89 Suzuki quad racer 250 (raced 250 A class for 6 years, late 90s.. custom framed 250x with long travel shocks and a built 350x motor.... built Honda 110
00s...... chomeoly framed 350 RX with all the goodies (thanks to my bro)
2012.....Replaced the 350x motor for a 444cc YZ426
WWW.HREATV.COM
Power User
The day begins with 3WW
The last one of these I did used a 5mm spacer and a stock timing chain worked , so I really dont see a problem using A new chain on your 3mm spacer . You should have a degreable timing sprocket anyway to get it dialed in perfect .
78 atc 90/180cc Dickson Full Suspension
76 ATC90/180cc Nicholson
77 atc 90 Dickson Full Suspension
84 KLT 110/123cc Powroll Racer from 80s
87 atc 125m stock
84 atc 200x Curtis Sparks
84 atc 200x Powroll My race bike from 80's
83 atc70/108cc Powroll blue Xmas Special
81 atc185s HP-ATC full suspension
Performance Shop is Open PM me for Service
My Feedback http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...ck+shortline10
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerFirst time rider
But do you agree the spacer will affect the timing if you don't have an adjustable sprocket?
Custodian of:-
85 Tri Z - need rear plastics to go with Mosh seat cover
83 200x - engine being rebuilt but lodging with a friend
85 250r - also lodging with a friend until I have a new shed
....and a different kind of Z
Roostin' Away
Arm chair racerRoostin Away
No it will not. The only thing that is different is the distance from crank shaft centerline to camshaft centerline.
YTM-200, Wheeling machine!!!
1985 Honda 200x...
...Just a simple mild 200x
Power User
Catch me if you can
If you read up at any of the camshaft websites, they all recommend making sure to degree in the cam.
An 83-85 200X isn't that hard to get set but you better be good with math and the understandings of how an engine works. Honestly, I never thought about how much there was to it until I started reading. Me, being an 86 fan, I'm screwed - the sprocket is welded to the cam. But, if it's that important I'll bet there are ways to degree that in also with the time, materials and knowledge.....
All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerFirst time rider
Okay maybe we are misunderstanding each other.
Imagine that the chain is still attached when you move the cam further away from the crank. Assume the crank is prevented from turning. The cam will be forced to rotate slightly because the chain won't stretch om the tight side. The only way of correcting this is to adjust the cam in relation to the sprocket. Do you agree with that?
Custodian of:-
85 Tri Z - need rear plastics to go with Mosh seat cover
83 200x - engine being rebuilt but lodging with a friend
85 250r - also lodging with a friend until I have a new shed
....and a different kind of Z
Power User
4 Wheels? Huh?
Only if you extend 1 side of the chain.
Since the chain is never on when you install a cam what your saying really hurts my brain....lol
80s......185 atc, Yamaha tri-moto 200, 85 200x with tons of work
90s......89 Suzuki quad racer 250 (raced 250 A class for 6 years, late 90s.. custom framed 250x with long travel shocks and a built 350x motor.... built Honda 110
00s...... chomeoly framed 350 RX with all the goodies (thanks to my bro)
2012.....Replaced the 350x motor for a 444cc YZ426
WWW.HREATV.COM
Power User
The day begins with 3WW
I dont see how you can add a link without using a degreeable/adjustable timing sprocket . It just seems to me it would throw everthing out of time . Maybe I'm just Nutz LOL
78 atc 90/180cc Dickson Full Suspension
76 ATC90/180cc Nicholson
77 atc 90 Dickson Full Suspension
84 KLT 110/123cc Powroll Racer from 80s
87 atc 125m stock
84 atc 200x Curtis Sparks
84 atc 200x Powroll My race bike from 80's
83 atc70/108cc Powroll blue Xmas Special
81 atc185s HP-ATC full suspension
Performance Shop is Open PM me for Service
My Feedback http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...ck+shortline10
At The Back Of The Pack
Arm chair racerFirst time rider
The sprocket is welded to the cam????? I have never seen that before but I don't have an 86 here.
Would this work?
Bore / drill a 12mm hole in the centre of the sprocket through into the cam. Make a dowel to fill this hole as a locator. Cut through between the side of the sprocket and the end of the cam. Make a spacer plate to replace the cut thickness This could be fixed to the sprocket and the dowel could also be fixed to the sprocket. Drill and tap three holes in the cam. Make three slotted holes in the sprocket and spacer plate.
If you want to get fancy you could use a set of say four offset spaced holes in the sprocket and cam to adjust 1 degree at a time - fiddly to do and only necessary if you want to play around with the timing on a dyno. I generally find the timing I want and then drill one hole and use a small roll pin to locate the sprocket to the cam.
The way of timing a cam I was taught was to use the Lobe Centreline (or Separation) Angle, having found the full lift points of the inlet and exhaust lobes. Then it is fairly easy to advance or retard the cam in relation to this.
As you say there is a lot to cams and you need to get competent with some maths and geometry.
Last edited by WilliamJ; 11-18-2010 at 06:30 PM. Reason: typo
Custodian of:-
85 Tri Z - need rear plastics to go with Mosh seat cover
83 200x - engine being rebuilt but lodging with a friend
85 250r - also lodging with a friend until I have a new shed
....and a different kind of Z
Power User
The day begins with 3WW
Picture of an original aftermarket degreeable timing sprocket for a 200x .
I found the best method for using one of these was just trial and error . Advancing or retarding for the type of power I was looking for . A degree wheel is supposed to make it perfect to cam specs but not always making power were we wanted it . Lots of testing but def worth while .
Last edited by shortline10; 11-18-2010 at 07:39 PM.
78 atc 90/180cc Dickson Full Suspension
76 ATC90/180cc Nicholson
77 atc 90 Dickson Full Suspension
84 KLT 110/123cc Powroll Racer from 80s
87 atc 125m stock
84 atc 200x Curtis Sparks
84 atc 200x Powroll My race bike from 80's
83 atc70/108cc Powroll blue Xmas Special
81 atc185s HP-ATC full suspension
Performance Shop is Open PM me for Service
My Feedback http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthr...ck+shortline10
Roostin' Away
Arm chair racerRoostin Away
Thank you Swigin!!! It is Impossible to install the spacer without taking the cam and cam chain off.
YTM-200, Wheeling machine!!!
1985 Honda 200x...
...Just a simple mild 200x
Power User
Catch me if you can
^ Of course it does, how do you get the plate under there when it all comes apart? The only reason anyone would leave that together is if they were too chicken to re-time the cam and adjust the valves
If I had to guess, the cam sprocket should have exactly twice the amount of teeth on the crank sprocket......
All our government does is distract us while they steal from us, misspend our tax $ and ruin our country
Power User
4 Wheels? Huh?
Basically, with a 3mm plate you are only taking up the slack in the stock chain. No one is adding links or anything else. It is normal for builders to use old/used chains in new motors to ease installation of the cam. But in no way does a spacer or a longer chain change timing when you are building a new motor.
That being said, If you built a motor say, 10 years ago and the then new chain is now stretched say, 2 inchs longer then it was when it was new. The timing would be different from when it was new. But chains do not stretch 2 inchs and the effect from normal chain stretch is minimal.
Now say you are adding a link or 2 to a chain for whatever reason. This does not change timing at all unless the teeth of the sprocket fall between a link. Then it would be off a tad but If you were building a true race motor and needing to add links you would also be degreeing your cam, and I highly boubt more then a handfull on here has ever degreeed a ATV cam.
So basicly once you degree the cam to get the most power from it, you might not be even close to the timing marks anyway so being ''out of time'' is a great thing sometimes.
80s......185 atc, Yamaha tri-moto 200, 85 200x with tons of work
90s......89 Suzuki quad racer 250 (raced 250 A class for 6 years, late 90s.. custom framed 250x with long travel shocks and a built 350x motor.... built Honda 110
00s...... chomeoly framed 350 RX with all the goodies (thanks to my bro)
2012.....Replaced the 350x motor for a 444cc YZ426
WWW.HREATV.COM
Got The Holeshot
Arm chair racerJust too addicted
The new carb just came in. It is a Sudco 28mm FCR bored out to a 30mm by CT Racing. The technology of this thing is unreal. It is going to be a challenge to make it fit as it is way bigger than I was expecting, but I will make it work. I took pictures of it next to a 28mm DG Keihin 200x carb so you can see how big it really is. The bottom end of the motor is together now and I just finished making the spacer plate. Should be able to have the motor all together and ready early January. Thanks, xrider
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