Are we really going green when it comes to cars and MPGs?

[Mr_RPM]

The last episode of the US Top Gear got me thinking.
they did a write up on Honda's New CR-Z. Its the first of its kind, called a "sport Hybrid"
It is sort of a remake to Honda's CR-X from the 80s. Basically to make a long story short, the Old CR-X from the 80s was faster and got better MPGs. The Old CR-X was said to get upwards of 50MPGs while the "sport hybrid" CR-Z gets 37 in its most gas forgiving mode and was said to get 30MPGs in its Sport mode.
Where has Honda gotten in the last 20-30 years? Honda does alot of amazing things, but really? are they really trying to give us the best MPGs avalable?
Look at the toyota Prius, I have heard (all my numbers here are just from what i have heard on TV and such) they get 50MPGs, the same average that the CR-X got in the 80s.
What about all of those turdy lame cars from back in the 70s/80s when there was the fuel crisis. while they may have been slow, and not very cool some models have been brought back into the spot light because back then we were getting 40, 50, even 60MPGs in a non hybrid gas burning engine. Now days you need to buy a super complex, expensive, and still lame car to get....the same, IF NOT worse gas Mileage then what was available back then.

Also, Watching the original Top Gear really opens up your automotive vocabulary and over years I have seen many cars offered in Europe to get 50-70 MPGs.

Look at the VW Polo http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...diesel/4219904
why arent these being sold here in the US right now? Why is the Prius so well known for its MPGs when this blows it out of the water? Its not just diesel, there are plenty of Gas engines that are getting better then 40MPGs without hybrid technology.


so are they really giving us the Best MPG rated cars they can make? Or are they just trying to make us think we are getting good gas Mileage? where has car technology gone since the 80s? why are they just giving us more complex was to burn just as much gas as we could in the 80s?

just my rant, I could have done better research and been more accurate but you get my point. It does not seem that we are getting anywhere.

[tecat-z]

I hear ya. My mom had a new 79 Honda civic lx loaded with all the comfort options. It was a 5 speed manual 2 door hatch that she had till probably 92. That car would get mid to upper 30's on the highway. Town usually went for a good 30. She is a conservative driver and has had many new 4cyl cars since then. NONE have returned that kind of mileage. But they tell us how good they are and how far they have come. That old 79 used a carb, while todays sophistacated fuel injection systems can't do it. Hype is all, it's a way to sell their agenda. Most people have very short memories.

[RDH/86200X]

my first car was a 1986 chevy chevette that was as fully loaded as a chevette can get. which amounts to air and power stearing but not power brakes. i would average 48mpg and the car had a 2 barrel carb and an automatic trans

[NINJA]

Go to your local library and dig out the old Consumer Reports from the early 90s. Practically every major manufacturer had a car that would get over 40 mpg. The ads these days, it's all just propaganda. They make the consumer think their car is getting better gas mileage than the cars from decades past. Tell me this, how does buying a Prius help the environment? You plug it into a wall, that electricity comes from a coal fired plant. They take more raw materials out of the ground including rare earth materials, to build that turd shaped car for enviroturds to drive around and chastise everyone else. What the hell do they plan on doing with all those batteries and the noxious materials within them when they start crapping out? Rechargeable batteries do wear out. How much toxic processing waste is produced to make those batteries and what do they do about that?
In reality, if you really are concerned about driving a car that will have the least amount of impact on the environment, keep the old V6 or I4 shitbox you had! Keep it in good repair and tune. Why do people feel they need to buy a new car every couple of years? Jesus Christ! Am I the only one that sees this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

[200xman]

Go to your local library and dig out the old Consumer Reports from the early 90s. Practically every major manufacturer had a car that would get over 40 mpg. The ads these days, it's all just propaganda. They make the consumer think their car is getting better gas mileage than the cars from decades past. Tell me this, how does buying a Prius help the environment? You plug it into a wall, that electricity comes from a coal fired plant. They take more raw materials out of the ground including rare earth materials, to build that turd shaped car for enviroturds to drive around and chastise everyone else. What the hell do they plan on doing with all those batteries and the noxious materials within them when they start crapping out? Rechargeable batteries do wear out. How much toxic processing waste is produced to make those batteries and what do they do about that?
In reality, if you really are concerned about driving a car that will have the least amount of impact on the environment, keep the old V6 or I4 shitbox you had! Keep it in good repair and tune. Why do people feel they need to buy a new car every couple of years? Jesus Christ! Am I the only one that sees this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

Amen brother! I had a 1989 Dodge W350, 6" lift, 35's, throttle body 360 that got better mileage than a 2003 Dodge 1500 4 door with a 360 that I had. That truck got 11 around town and 13 on the highway UGH! Look at the new diesels that get single digit mileage while towing. I don't get how you have lower emissions when you're burning twice the fuel.

[UlsterATCFan]

Interesting topic MR_RPM - generally speaking the reason why cars available in the USA have such poor MPG figures is because the American people are still in love with PETROL (or gasoline as you call it). Which is completely understandable as its still so cheap over there. Half of all new cars sold in Europe are diesels and the fact of the matter is that diesel engines are much much more efficient than petrol engines. The whole hybrid industry, if you'll forgive my French, is a load of bollocks. Its all about making people feel good that they're helping the environment and doing their part and embracing technology blah blah blah. The diesel Polo as in your link will do tons more miles per gallon than hybrids as will many other diesel cars. I was looking on the landrover site yesterday and noticed that new diesel landrovers arent even available in America, you get the V8 petrol but over here in the UK people would think you're insane if you drove a V8 car due to petrol prices and the sheer 'over the top' nature of a V8 in most Brits' eyes. I imagine alot of Americans are put off by diesel cars but you really shouldn't be - they're much more reliable than petrol cars, give waaaaaaay better MPG, have great torque and towing characteristics and can be quick as hell. BMW diesels in particular are amazing. So when the oil starts running out I think the push for better MPG will hit the States with a bang and mark my words you will see more and more diesel cars on your roads in the not too distant future

[Bretmd94]

The prius doesn't get 50mpg. More like 35mpg.

The old Honda Insight does get 50mpg. But I agree with what you are saying, I like that the crappy american top gear called them out on it. I love the British show

My newer chevy has some stupid gimick where is turns off 4 cylinders while gliding... If I breathe on the gas pedal it gets knocked into V8 mode. If I am sitting at a stop light its in V8 mode. I get 12mpg. Its an 07 new body style chevy full size PU. We haven't gone anywhere.

Its all a joke and americanized propaganda, until we are actually driving electric cars I am not buying into these hybrids.

I am interested to see how Chevy's electric car, the Volt, does. Though i hear it is spendy.

[Bretmd94]

Interesting topic MR_RPM - generally speaking the reason why cars available in the USA have such poor MPG figures is because the American people are still in love with PETROL (or gasoline as you call it). Which is completely understandable as its still so cheap over there. Half of all new cars sold in Europe are diesels and the fact of the matter is that diesel engines are much much more efficient than petrol engines. The whole hybrid industry, if you'll forgive my French, is a load of bollocks. Its all about making people feel good that they're helping the environment and doing their part and embracing technology blah blah blah. The diesel Polo as in your link will do tons more miles per gallon than hybrids as will many other diesel cars. I was looking on the landrover site yesterday and noticed that new diesel landrovers arent even available in America, you get the V8 petrol but over here in the UK people would think you're insane if you drove a V8 car due to petrol prices and the sheer 'over the top' nature of a V8 in most Brits' eyes. I imagine alot of Americans are put off by diesel cars but you really shouldn't be - they're much more reliable than petrol cars, give waaaaaaay better MPG, have great torque and towing characteristics and can be quick as hell. BMW diesels in particular are amazing. So when the oil starts running out I think the push for better MPG will hit the States with a bang and mark my words you will see more and more diesel cars on your roads in the not too distant future

This always confused me as well. I am well aware of all the diesels in Europe. There are a few diesel cars here, but are rare. Usually an old Mercedes or VW.

But we have a ton of diesel trucks, Dodge, Ford, and Chevy. Americans love them. We beef them up, inject propane and add ridiculous things like trucker stacks to our personal trucks

America would embrace diesel cars, the efficiency would be wasted though as we would find a way to make it go fast.

[300rman]

the efficiency would be wasted though as we would find a way to make it go fast.

I disagree, a large chunk of the populace doesnt change anything with their cars.

as for cars 30 years ago getting 50+mpg.....it really makes you wonder what the real agenda is, doest it?

[Dirtcrasher]

I read last week that by next year we could reach 5$ a gallon for regular gas. If I find the article, I'll post it.....

[Mr_RPM]

I disagree, a large chunk of the populace doesnt change anything with their cars.

as for cars 30 years ago getting 50+mpg.....it really makes you wonder what the real agenda is, doest it?

I agree with both statements here.

as for Diesel cars being brought over here, I think alot of people would go for it, sad thing is "good" MPG cars are sort of a fashion statement in some parts (not mine ) such as why the prius became so popular because it was advertised and thought to be "the best".
If companies started advertising diesel cars as the new "Best" car for the environment they would be bought right up.
Get a few famous tree huggers to endorse in them and before ya know it California makes it their State car.

Basically anything can be sold to America with the right propaganda. I think if all of those efficient Euro cars were brought over here and were "hyped up" people would jump all over it.

NINJA, I could not agree more!!!
also, the manufacturing of these hybrids are very bad for the environment. BBC's Top Gear once said the Manufacturing of the Prius was so inefficient and the aftermath of the prius with it's battery debris would cause more environmental damage then it would have saved...dont quote me on that, ill look for a video or something.



FOUND IT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk

[inv3ctiv3]

I read last week that by next year we could reach 5$ a gallon for regular gas. If I find the article, I'll post it.....

That's about how expensive gas was here in CA for a while maybe 2-3 years ago.

[hang&rattle]

This poor country. Our cars are junk. Anything imported is junk. One of my mechanic buddy says any car in Europe will last longer than here. Way higher octane and cleaner gas. We get greedy oil companies who don't refine it all the way. A few great cars slipped thought in the 90's though. I have a Dodge Intrepid. 29 mpg and all the power you can ask of it. It's fast too. And I will be on 190,000 soon. But I remember cruzing the drag in high school. Toyota 4x4 pickups, VW scirocco's, and Honda civic's, crx's, and accords. $5 was all night fun. Cost me $50.00 in gas to drive 45 min. to lake for the truck and trikes, that's cheap fun (?), lol. I can't afford a newer car and even if I could muster it wouldn't. And I am not trendy. A MX hemet made this year and a $150 more than last year is not $150 more worth it (better). I don't fall for the 'newer is better' quality crap.

[Bretmd94]

This poor country. Our cars are junk. Anything imported is junk. One of my mechanic buddy says any car in Europe will last longer than here. Way higher octane and cleaner gas. We get greedy oil companies who don't refine it all the way. A few great cars slipped thought in the 90's though. I have a Dodge Intrepid. 29 mpg and all the power you can ask of it. It's fast too. And I will be on 190,000 soon. But I remember cruzing the drag in high school. Toyota 4x4 pickups, VW scirocco's, and Honda civic's, crx's, and accords. $5 was all night fun. Cost me $50.00 in gas to drive 45 min. to lake for the truck and trikes, that's cheap fun (?), lol. I can't afford a newer car and even if I could muster it wouldn't. And I am not trendy. A MX hemet made this year and a $150 more than last year is not $150 more worth it (better). I don't fall for the 'newer is better' quality crap.

The quality has gone down in a lot of situations. I am in the plumbing industry and the fittings (mainly copper and brass) have gone way up in price and the quality is nothing like the old fittings.

The cars were built much stronger before. Made to last and with parts easy to replace. It seems like today you buy it, drive it, and throw it away.

[NINJA]

This is my favorite thread on 3WW right now. I'm glad there are other people out there who can see through this fog of bullshit!