350X Clutch Questions and Upsate NY ATV Service Center Reputation Question

[TatTooL23]

Sorry but I STILL can't believe u payed the guy. That is how he is still in business doin this to people. U want to inform others about him to not go there but yet u payed him for screwing up your machine. Basically u enabled him. I say grow a set and go tell that guy a thing or two. Who cares if u loose your temper, u should loose your temper. Look at what this guy has created. How many hours of thought and confusion and posts on here and everything from everyone else.

I would just take it apart slowly and keep everything organized. I mean there really is not much in there. I bet you will c it is much easier then u think. I understand it seems daunting with not ver having it apart before but I think u would be fine. You have the Honda manual. It tells u EVERYTHING as in what order to do things, what tools to use, and what parts go where with pictures!

I think u should have some confidence in yourself and your manual. U said u have pretty much every tool. If u have all those tools then u must be somewhat handy with things. Usually people don't have tons of tools if they have no clue how to use them. So open her up label every thing if need be, take y o u r time, go by the book and fix it. Then go back to mister 30 year Honda tech and tell him u did it your self with no experience and that he is a moron and u will do everything u can to let everyone know how worthless he is and get y o u r money back.

[Slingblade]

Tatool's got some good points, and if you decide to do it yourself, I'm sure we all have some tips to help you along. Like #1, If you have an air compressor and impact wrench, you don't have to go buy a clutch holder tool. But you do need to use the right technique.

One thing I would suggest for a first timer is an inch pound tourqe wrench for the springs, after you get a feel for it a small 1/4 inch ratchet is the ticket.

Personally Tim, if I were you, I'd load it up and go spend a day with cattle-dog. First of all, the 2 of you working together will no doubt identify and fix the problem.

But mainly, from everything of his I've read on here, c-dog seems to be a super great guy. If he were a bit closer, I would just go hang out and do a little riding with the guy.

But please don't take it to another moron. Even if I had not a clue what I was doing, I would rather do it with the help of someone like dirtcrasher via this website as leave it with someone who didn't know or didn't care about there customers or the machine. Just my $.02

[2Tim215]

Sorry but I STILL can't believe u payed the guy. That is how he is still in business doin this to people. U want to inform others about him to not go there but yet u payed him for screwing up your machine. Basically u enabled him. I say grow a set and go tell that guy a thing or two. Who cares if u loose your temper, u should loose your temper. Look at what this guy has created. How many hours of thought and confusion and posts on here and everything from everyone else.

Sorry Tattool23 if you think I caused "many hours of thought and confusion" but I thought that this forum was to help others with information by sharing with each other as we all can't know everything about every three wheeler. I may not be very knowledgeable mechanically but have answered and shared a lot here with other members in the areas where I am familiar, models, years, specs, rarities, etc. I am probably not the only one who learned from this Post either as I really doubt every member has changed their own clutch. I know I have learned a lot from many Posts where others asked questions that I didn't comment on but still learned from those who were willing to share their knowledge. You say I should "grow a set" and should have lost my temper. That doesn't work in the real world. If you read the posts from the beginning you would know I shared how much stress I was under before picking up my machine and didn't want things to escalate. As I said before, it was better for me to lay my money down, get my trike, and get out of there. There was another customer in the shop and I asked enough questions to make him look foolish as he stumbled for answers when I pointed out that wasn't the same things he was telling me on the phone. I didn't enable him at all, again as stated above, I said I wanted to get someone familiar with 350X clutches to see what he did wrong. Then I could take him to small claims court armed with enough information to not only get my money back but also expose him in public with a court ruling. That would be a lot more effective than fighting with a man half my size and my wife posting bail to bring me home (plus that isn't how I handle things but being human I didn't want to put myself near the point of "losing it"). If the Judge said how do know he did something wrong and I said I took it home and fixed it myself he would wonder why I didn't do that in the first place and laugh me out of court. SO, I came home still stressed to the max, and Posted here where I have met a lot of kind sharing people who don't mind helping others that ask questions as I needed help. Now, about the tools. Actually I have been buying many tools over the last few years to try and have a local place where I could maybe exchange parts for help as I have bought and sold quite a few three wheelers & parts, and thought it would be a great way to learn, swap, and trade, (and pay cash if needed). I took the time to get every Yamaha and Honda Manual downloaded on my computer, (sorry Kawi fans!), to study and have on hand should the time come when a good local mechanic pops up who doesn't have a shop or tools and even built a 12x21 addition on my garage last summer/fall with the intent of using it just for this hobby, its 99% done, just need the doors and shelves finished! Unfortunately there aren't any members near me that I know of and Cattle-Dog & Ride-Red 250R are the closest who offered to help but both about 110 miles each way. If time allows I would gladly make the trip but also have health issues as mentioned above that this damp weather beats me down with. Cattle-Dog has been VERY helpful on this forum to a lot of us and for Ride-Red 250R to offer his help to a complete stranger he never talked to before was truly appreciated! Basically I hope this clears things up for you, I believe you were a bit harsh with your post adding salt to the wound but maybe because you missed some of the comments? Lastly, I don't have all of the tools needed as I can see from the post above but wouldn't mind adding a few more to my collection!

[2Tim215]

Tatool's got some good points, and if you decide to do it yourself, I'm sure we all have some tips to help you along. Like #1, If you have an air compressor and impact wrench, you don't have to go buy a clutch holder tool. But you do need to use the right technique.

One thing I would suggest for a first timer is an inch pound tourqe wrench for the springs, after you get a feel for it a small 1/4 inch ratchet is the ticket.

Personally Tim, if I were you, I'd load it up and go spend a day with cattle-dog. First of all, the 2 of you working together will no doubt identify and fix the problem.

But mainly, from everything of his I've read on here, c-dog seems to be a super great guy. If he were a bit closer, I would just go hang out and do a little riding with the guy.

But please don't take it to another moron. Even if I had not a clue what I was doing, I would rather do it with the help of someone like dirtcrasher via this website as leave it with someone who didn't know or didn't care about there customers or the machine. Just my $.02

I do have a good compressor and a few impact wrenches. I don't have the clutch holder tool. I have a 3/8" Drive Click Stop Torque Wrench but sadly admit its a Harbor Freight special, 5-80lbs. I try to stay with quality brands but sometimes cash flow doesn't allow! I'm not going to take it to another "moron", learned the hard way already! Once we get past this rain here in NY I'll see who is available time wise and make a trip to get some help and LEARNING!

[2Tim215]

just let me know and i will set a day aside for you, these are a very simple design i am sure it will be a easy fix and if something is missing we can take it out of one of my engines and you can just replace the part as there are tons of 350 engines in parts on ebay.
I am starting another build but a 85 this time. i hate waiting for parts.
Hope you feel better Don

Thanks Don! Appreciate it!!! Hopefully this rain will let up and I'll PM you to see what would work if nothing closer pops up. If you know of anything that should be new let me know now and I can order them ahead of time. I already have the brand new case gasket from ATC007 that the "mechanic" didn't use! lol

[TatTooL23]

Hey Tim, very sorry. It was not meant in that way at all. I would never do that. I am trying to become an avid member of this forum too and I try to never burn a bridge. With the grow a set thing I was just saying it as a funny statement like let that guy have it. It makes me mad that u got took. with the other stuff, I just mean I bet u could do it yourself. And about the posts on here I'm not down playing that at all. Believe me I know that's what this place is for. And I use it constantly and have also learned a ton here. I think it's great that everyone is helping out and I wouldn't expect any less here.

Again to clear the air I am very sorry for the way I came off with that. It wasn't intended that way and I do see how it could have been taken that way. But I say go for it with the manual and everyone here!

I wish u luck with it and I'm sure it'll be fixed and u will be out tearing up the trails. I'll even come over and ride with u. I'm about 4 hours away maybe.

[2Tim215]

Hey Tim, very sorry. It was not meant in that way at all. I would never do that. I am trying to become an avid member of this forum too and I try to never burn a bridge. With the grow a set thing I was just saying it as a funny statement like let that guy have it. It makes me mad that u got took. with the other stuff, I just mean I bet u could do it yourself. And about the posts on here I'm not down playing that at all. Believe me I know that's what this place is for. And I use it constantly and have also learned a ton here. I think it's great that everyone is helping out and I wouldn't expect any less here.

Again to clear the air I am very sorry for the way I came off with that. It wasn't intended that way and I do see how it could have been taken that way. But I say go for it with the manual and everyone here!

I wish u luck with it and I'm sure it'll be fixed and u will be out tearing up the trails. I'll even come over and ride with u. I'm about 4 hours away maybe.

Wow! Glad you cleared that up, truly appreciate it!!! I wish the second letter in your town was a "R" instead of a "L"!!! Then we would be neighbors Prattsburgh is only 15 minutes away from me! It will all come together here eventually, thanks again for clearing this up, I love this forum and learn something new every time I'm on! Tim

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Tim, I havent been a member very long here, but long enough to know that there are plenty of downright good people here. I love how a common interest brings people together. So, I feel that offering help to someone somewhat close by is kind of a given. And like you said before, if something closer doesnt come up, I would be willing to try and work something out with you, so long as you can work around my screwy schedule. It could take a couple weeks to make it happen.

But, back to the diagnosing...

Just watched your vid Tim, and something is amiss. You have WAAAYY to much freeplay, especially with your adjusters maxxed out.

Dirtcrasher, (or anyone else) think its possible the 30 year Honda tech put 1 too many clutch plates or discs in?

Tim, begging your pardon if you covered this earlier in the thread, but was your clutch cable replaced? Or is it the same cable you had before when other than some high gear slippage worked fine? With that much freeplay, its either a cable that is too long,(meaning the inner cable that does the pulling is disproportionally long for the cable casing) or something with the clutch itself is amiss.

2 things:
#1:if the cable is the cable you have been using all along, before this butcher put his claws on your trike, then the cable is not the issue.

#2: If #1 is the case, and you are confident to giver her a go, the clutch cover needs to be removed, and the clutch disassembled. And going from your service manual, count and make sure the proper number of clutch plates and discs are present and intstalled correctly. Then, measure the clutch spring free lengths to verify they are in spec per your service manual. You will need to drain the engine oil prior to removing the clutch cover, gets messy if you dont.

Also, pulling the clutch lever halfway back before the cable tightens is way too much freeplay. Measured between the cable end of the clutch lever and clutch perch, you should have somewhere around 1/8 to 1/4" gap at the point the cable begins to tighten. There is some variance model to model, but as a rule 1/4" should get you at least close to where you want to be. This also should be definitavely covered in your service manual, check there for the actual gap specs.

[2Tim215]

It is the same cable that was on it when I brought it to him. I also brought him 6 brand new OEM Honda Friction Discs in sealed packages which were part number 22201-KAE-000. I was told before I brought it to him that the metal discs should be okay as there was still plenty of good clutch so had no reason to believe they were thinned or warped but I wouldn't know that for sure either way as I wasn't there when he had it apart and a few people suggested that is a possibility. I was on another Forum and a member suggested that he may have put the casing back on with the clutch lifter arm in the wrong position. Is that a good possibility or has anyone here ever seen that happen? Still trying to figure out all possibilities for when the time comes I can get it done and be sure to have all parts on hand. I asked before if anyone knew if the 86 and 85 clutch would be the same including the basket. I bought a 86 parts 350x with a seized motor, I haven't had time to see if it would free up with some lubricant down the jug and rock it back and forth to see if I can get any play at all. Also are these clutch baskets numbered anywhere to determine which one goes to what model/year? I bought a few crates of parts also, 250R, 200X, 350X etc. I know there is at least one clutch basket in it with all the steels and discs. Most of the parts were used but very good condition, some new OEM, but no other new clutch parts except the discs that were HOPEFULLY put in! Hoping for some sunshine to loosen up my bones then I can get more done and make some plans.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well, being that the cable has not been replaced and worked fine before, that eliminates it as a cause IMHO.

Im not positive, but I dont believe they labeled clutch components with actual models and years.

What you need to do if you are up for it, is go step by step with your service manual, and get at that clutch. Its really not at all difficult to do. Once the clutch cover is removed, the clutch will be right there in plain view and easily accessable. There will be 5 or 6 bolts retaining the clutch springs. Remove the clutch spring retainer bolts and you can remove all the clutch steel plates and friction discs one at a time. Verify plate and disc count with your service manual. Measure the free length of the springs to verify they are in spec according to your manual. And then, step by step with the manual, put her back together.

It sounds to me like the clutch lifter being out of place is the most likely issue. Your manual should give instructions on how to properly position the lifter before re-installing the clutch cover.

FWIW, if you determine the lifter is out of position, you shouldnt need to disassemble the clutch. You can just count the plates and discs to verify the correct number or plates/discs are present. You can count them without taking the clutch apart...

[2Tim215]

Thanks Red-Ride 250R! I have a few appointments tomorrow so will give it a try in a few days and read the clutch section of the manual carefully. The blow-up illustration shows the order clearly so I should be able to learn something once apart. Appreciate everyones help and advice, I'll give it a whirl here very soon! Tim

[RIDE-RED 250r]

OK, look forward to hear back from you on this.....