Atc 88 dyno results look!

[Thorpe]

I need more info... And a 5 angle valve job!!!

[81Rmachine]

I run it on 91 octane pump gas. 11 to 1 compression. I did some pretty elaborate porting, flow testing, and chamber work to get that kind of power. It was done on a Mustang Dynomometer which are claimed to be the most accurate in the industry. I had thought about a lifan when I got it but I wanted to keep it honda and I had access to a machine shop and a flow bench so I had no excuse not to use the original honda head. The cylinder head is where its all at. The power an engine can produce is solely limited by how much air can get through the cylinder head. Cam events and everything else must fall into place as well, but you wont get anywhere without a good flowing head. Th.e valve job was also a huge improvement over stock going from about a .040 seat width (common on an automotive valve job) to a .020 seat width. Many three wheeler heads ive pulled apart have black seats which is a clear indication the valve wasn't seating due to too wide of a seat. The seat I went to may sound too small but it actually is better for heat transfer as it doesnt trap carbon that would insulate the valve. 70 percent of the valves heat is transfered through the seat and if it cant do that then you burn a valve. I actually put this engine together a year ago and i've ridden it pretty hard Its got to have 50 to 100 hours on it and it really hasnt lost power im impressed with the longevity not problems yet. Oh and I've beaten a 200s and an '85 and '86 200x in a drag race down gravel.

[81Rmachine]

The five angle valve job consists of your typical 3 angles (60, 45, and 30) and it also includes a 75 degree throat cut and a 15 degree cut above the 30 to blend into the chamber better. I've spoken over the phone with Joe Mondello and Darin Morgan who is a pro-stock engine builder and he says a 15 degree change between each angle is optimal for both dry flow and wet flow and offers better fuel shear and eliminates fuel seperation and dries up the chamber.

[350xx]

The five angle valve job consists of your typical 3 angles (60, 45, and 30) and it also includes a 75 degree throat cut and a 15 degree cut above the 30 to blend into the chamber better. I've spoken over the phone with Joe Mondello and Darin Morgan who is a pro-stock engine builder and he says a 15 degree change between each angle is optimal for both dry flow and wet flow and offers better fuel shear and eliminates fuel seperation and dries up the chamber.

Amazing.
What kind of money did you put into her?

[Thorpe]

Sounds like I probably can't afford to hire you to work my 70 head over... Mondello, didn't he pass recently? I bought a few Olds goodies from Mondello over the years... 81r, what do you do for work up in Bemidji?

[MisterFurious]

Judas H. Priest on a popsicle stick; are you running nitro?!

[WilliamJ]

That is quite an output. I have built a few race engines for cars and to get more than 120hp per litre out of a two-valve engine is very good indeed. To get 180hp per litre - well, I have only come across that on four-valve full race Cosworth engines hitting around 10 or 11,000 rpm. If you are running on alcohol then that would be the reason, but if it’s on gas then it is truly amazing. The Honda Blackbird got about 160hp at best, and that was 1100cc so equals 145hp per litre. F1 engines have reportedly got around 250 hp per litre but that is using an ultra short stroke and 19,000 rpm.

Five angle valve seats, well-ported head, 11 to 1 CR, cam events optimized, these are tried and tested so what have you found?
Bill

[81Rmachine]

Yes Mondello did pass last spring. I had the privilege to speak with him a couple months before he died. It was a real honor for me to speak to Dr. Olds as Im a die hard Olds guru myself. Im actually a second year tech student up here in Bemidji and just last week at the Performance Racing Industry tradeshow in Florida I met and spoke with Mary Mondello who is now in charge of hiring and Cody Smith an employee who also graduated from Bemidji about employment this spring. Hopefully all goes well and I get to work at Dr. Olds very own shop.
Oh and as far as price I paid 400 for the 70 and a 185 i put about 400 into it.

[81Rmachine]

Hey Bill I see your from England so Im sure your very familiar with David Vizard and sounds like you've got 4 valve experience. I just had to ask if you've heard of Vizards "Polyquad" design? I just went to his seminar this fall in Chaska, MN.

[WilliamJ]

Yes have read up on the poly quad idea but not tried using it. It makes very good sense as better mixing gives better / more complete combustion. It was posted on a site that he seems to have stopped contributing to - Go Fast News.

My first tuned engine was built a long time ago using his Mini book from the 70s. The engine was an ancient 850cc A series Mini and I put a head with bigger valves from an 1100cc A series on it, worked the valves and seats, ground the chambers and ports to his design, raised the CR to about 10.5 to 1, fitted a single 1.5 inch carb and removed the inlet heating. Everything else was standard.

Before the work it would just reach 70mph. After the work it would reach over 100 mph - it actually went off the end of the speedo dial which only showed 95mph. 0 to 60 was just under 10 seconds and it would easily beat a standard 1275 Cooper S. A fair estimate is 80 hp at the flywheel. The man is a genius but I can understand why he went to the US. No-one rewards genius in Britain.

I would really like to see pics of what you have done....you did take pics didn’t you?
Bill

[81Rmachine]

Not of the 70 no unfortunately but I am currently doing an '81 Honda XL500s engine. Its a four valve chamber and ill be doing Mr. Vizards polyquad design here this next semester. Id love to dyno the bike when im done as well but im going to school 6 hours from home so gas gets expensive in the old full time 4x4 pickup but none the less ill have pics of the project.

[KASEY]

ok.. i have built alot of 70 motors,, and lifans and pitsters,, and i highly doubt the hp readings are accurate,, sorry but i don't see getting 5 times the stock hp with a few simple mods,,,, you made the engine 16 cc bigger than stock and added a cam piston and porting,,, and got 5 times the hp,,,,,, sorry it might run great and all ... but thats just a little strech for me.....

[big specht]

Maybe doubling the hp to 6 or 8 not 16 hp . Bring it to TF and drag race it then we will see

[VintageHondaKid]

I'm not gonna say that this is totally false... However, I'm from the show me state, and I could definitely go for a video of this thing beating up on the bigger trikes like you said it did. Then I'd be a true believer lol

[jb2wheels]

Unreal numbers.. but the dyno don't lie. thx for the input.

Actually - they do lie. If you don't compare before and after on the same dyno, same day, same configuration, same this that and everything else, the numbers aren't valid. And I bet the dyno accuracy is not very good at low output ranges.

Too many variables, not enough controls.

I'm not knocking the engine - it's a strong runner no doubt - I'm knocking the validity of the test and data.