How do we change this thing around?

[ATCcountryboy]

There is a lot of people who don't give a dam about people who fly R/C planes too. Right now as we speak the AMA (academy of model aeronautics) is fighting for our right to build and fly ROV's UAV's, and a few other things. If we didn't have that organization, the people, and the government would just continue to take take take from us, until the only thing we can do is kyack and walk, which offends me BTW.

But it is that slow erosion of freedom that is killing us. The subtlety of the gradual.

I have to say I am pretty disappointed in the response here, I really expected greater things from this community, and better attitudes. I thought only people on .org argue like this.

Oh well, I am going to make the video anyway. Going to take some time, as I want to help out sorting through the cspc stuff first and have it all organized.

Oh-no riverrat is going to ruin it for all of us! You are already ruined broskis. I couldn't possibly ruin it anymore than half the stupid videos out there depicting trikes in a bad light.

I will be happy to help if you need it.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I applaud your efforts and wish you luck in making the video. Maybe it will convince somebody, maybe it won't but it can't do any harm and will add one more positive video to youtube.

As for picking a fight with the federal government on behalf of all trikers, if you are successful in lobbying them to re-write ATV regulations there are 3 possible outcomes.

1. New regulations could be more favorable to trikes.
2. New regulations could be less favorable to trikes.
3. New regulations may have little or no impact.

Which outcome is most likely? Doesn't really matter. The point is that even if #2 is even a very remote possibility, you are gambling with everyone's rights, not just yours, and I really don't think you have an ethical right to do that without a consensus supporting it.

If you can get the offices of either of your US Senators, just one, to agree that relaxing regulations on three wheeled or any other kind of ATV needs a 2nd look, I will throw 100% support behind you. Sen. Clinton and Sen. Shumer are reasonable people who are open to being educated. Heck, I'll even settle for your district Representative, and I don't even know who it is.

SAY WHAT??!!! I was with you right up till then Tim! LOL!

Clinton is our Secretary of State. Kirsten Gillibrand is the other US senator representing NY.

[Scootertrash]

I'm with Veal, must have been the assless chaps..........

All chaps are assless by definition, unless of course you consider some of the individuals that wear them.

[Vealmonkey]

Excellent observation.

[TimSr]

SAY WHAT??!!! I was with you right up till then Tim! LOL!

Clinton is our Secretary of State. Kirsten Gillibrand is the other US senator representing NY.

LOL! Senior moment! I guess her tenure as Sec of State has been about as memorable as her time as senator. I've never been able to get it out of my head that any state would ever elect a senator who never lived in the state until fiing to run.

[riverrat]

I applaud your efforts and wish you luck in making the video. Maybe it will convince somebody, maybe it won't but it can't do any harm and will add one more positive video to youtube.

As for picking a fight with the federal government on behalf of all trikers, if you are successful in lobbying them to re-write ATV regulations there are 3 possible outcomes.

1. New regulations could be more favorable to trikes.
2. New regulations could be less favorable to trikes.
3. New regulations may have little or no impact.

Which outcome is most likely? Doesn't really matter. The point is that even if #2 is even a very remote possibility, you are gambling with everyone's rights, not just yours, and I really don't think you have an ethical right to do that without a consensus supporting it.

If you can get the offices of either of your US Senators, just one, to agree that relaxing regulations on three wheeled or any other kind of ATV needs a 2nd look, I will throw 100% support behind you. Sen. Clinton and Sen. Shumer are reasonable people who are open to being educated. Heck, I'll even settle for your district Representative, and I don't even know who it is.

Thank you TimSr. I am not sure who you are, but if you are the one responsible for running or starting the OTC, then I really respect your opinions. Basically there was only one thing that could have stopped me from doing this, and it just happened. I hear what everyone is saying here, let sleeping dogs lie, and I understand it, and I agree with it. But there is this side of me that likes to fight for what is right no matter the cost. For me it can't get any worse. There isn't a public trail to ride on for 180 miles from my house, 3 wheelers are looked upon as the devil most times, and it is getting harder and harder to justify running one. Ever since the day when this whole thing started I've had a knot in my stomach about it. It just defines the whole problem with America these days.

Oh and scootertrash, with this recent development, OWS and trike riders have more in common than just what the media does to us. The whole idea is hold for now. I won't do it without the support of certain key players in the trike world.

[250Roger]

My family and I do our best EVERYTIME we ride to shine a positive light on 3 wheeling. We don't drink and ride, ride on paved roads (unless designated for atv travel). Whether we are at the dunes, trails or our own backyard we ride courteously, answer any questions and have even gone so far as to offer rides to experienced riders of other off road vehicles. If there are people in need we are always there to offer a hand. I (We) have been doing this since the 80's.. That is good enough for us.

If we ALL conducted ourselves responsibly back in the 80's, this would all be a moot point..

There are members of this site who think it's okay to ride without any working brakes, or ride their 3 wheeler drunk.. I will never be lumped in with those knuckleheads...

I agree 100% with this. I am a courtious rider as well. I always give the right of way to other riders going inthe opposite direction (I even stop & shut off the engine if people are horseback riding until they pass). Have never been under any influence of any kind of substance while riding. The adrenaline (sp) rush of a power band would kill any "buzz" anyway.

[Scootertrash]

Oh and scootertrash, with this recent development, OWS and trike riders have more in common

Please enlighten me/us. I'd like to hear your reasoning. What is this recent development you speak of? Is it because the majority of other trikers aren't jumping on your OTS (Occupy Trike Seat) bandwagon?

I'm not dissing you here, I would really like to know.

[dcreel]

I don't get it either.. the wife and I work hard for our money to buy trikes. I don't earn trike money squatting on someone else's property whining about what I supposedly deserve. If I want something I work hard for the money to go get it..

They need to get on the OAJ bandwagon... Occupy A Job..

[350XJEDI]

you got to be joking , bringing this up with the gov. could never end well ! trikers have nothing in commen with ows ,we respect others property, we WORK, we dont trash the public parks !! costing the TAX paying people more then we all ready paid!! I dont think trying to reverse the old ban makes any sense, nobody is going to jump into production anyways, better to join the atv/4x4 lobby to try and keep trails and puplic land open , lets not waste effort try something that will only backfire in our faces . most people dont care about atc's but more care about keeping access to puplic trails /land open for all types of recreation.so lets focus on that realistic goal and not some fantasie!!!

[ATC-Eric]

better to join the atv/4x4 lobby to try and keep trails and puplic land open

In my mind, this is the ONLY post worth taking from this whole thread. I agree, I don't think there's a battle to win with trikes. Nobody cares about them anymore, "most" people don't even remember they still exist. The most productive thing that can be done is to join the ongoing CURRENT battle that is being fought as we speak. The banning of side by sides, and to keep riding areas open are 2 big issues that come to mind.

[Scootertrash]

They need to get on the OAJ bandwagon... Occupy A Job..

As opposed to OMB?? (Occupy Moms Basement?)

[TimSr]

I propose we drop "rednecks" and "occupy" from discussion in this thread as its an irrelevant distraction, and that maybe some of Riverrat's fellow New Yorkers can assist in focusing that positive energy to some specific concerns, and a realistic way to make gains in that area, whether its trail riding, racing, public riding areas, or simply private areas open to the public. I wll be more than happy to help figure out and focus a logical plan of attack to move it along, help identify who holds the power to make the power to make it happen or change it, and help identify what other groups and clubs may already be working towards it. That kinf of energy and desire to make improvements should not be tabled simply because "we can't win" but rather refocused and organized to specific ares in which we CAN win.

[Chazz of Blades]

How about we all stop bickering and OATS.



Occupy A Trike Seat.

[riverrat]

I don't get it either.. the wife and I work hard for our money to buy trikes. I don't earn trike money squatting on someone else's property whining about what I supposedly deserve. If I want something I work hard for the money to go get it..

They need to get on the OAJ bandwagon... Occupy A Job..

dcreel, saying what you just said is like circle jerk, or irony, or something that just doesn't make sense. It just shows how you are the victim of the media's portrayal of OWS Of course, just like trike riders, and every other facet of life, there are those that are disrespectful and really don't represent what trike riding, or OWS are about. The point is that the media will only focus on the bad, because the owners of the media have much to lose if the OWS message gets through. Not just the owners of the media, but a lot of unfairly run big business, and the government that let's it run that way. We are not talking about people who make an honest living, or attacking people just because they are rich, or big. We are talking about companies, and government that take advantage of hard working people like you and me. You should understand that. See the rest of this message for more...

Please enlighten me/us. I'd like to hear your reasoning. What is this recent development you speak of? Is it because the majority of other trikers aren't jumping on your OTS (Occupy Trike Seat) bandwagon?

I'm not dissing you here, I would really like to know.

I do feel like you have been attacking me this thread, just because you have this incorrect opinion of OWS. I didn't post the recent development right away, because I wanted to get the persons permission to repost what he said. Unfortunately I hope I am not opening up another can of worms here, but in the interest of this whole trike ban crap, I am going to get it out anyway. Please understand, I am not taking anyone's side.

The only thing that would have stopped me, was if what I was about to do would harm someone's current effort at building trikes, somoeone like TPC trikes, or the like (some of the atc70 sites). The owner of TPC trikes is banned from this site for life. Now I don't really care about that situation, that is none of my business. But, the owner of TPC trikes pm'd me on .org and did some explaining to me about the ban, and asked me to let sleeping dog's lie.

Now as we all know, there was no actual government ban in the 80's, it was a consent decree act, which was drawn up by Honda's lawyers, and the big 5 agreed to it. According to him, they were going to phase out 3 wheelers anyway. Better to sacrifice 3 wheelers, and continue making 4 wheelers.

The owner of TPC trikes got Carmen Cafro (5 time S.C.O.R.E. champion and multi time 1000, 500 winner) and they approached Sal Fish the head of S.C.O.R.E. to race a TPC in the baja 1000, Sal told them that unless Honda ( a major sponsor for the race) said it was ok, no 3 wheeler would ever race the 1000.

Now someone asked if even if the ban was reversed, would anyone ever make a 3 wheeler again? But if you remember, there was a company that started making trikes again a few years ago. I believe this is the one: http://www.atvriders.com/gallery/2007indydealerexpophotogallery/pages/KE2F0148.html
It was right after that, that this new proposed ban appeared. Want to know why? well there is accusations that Honda was the one who influenced it(the new ban). Mr. Honda does not want any trikes to ever be made again, either by him or anyone else. Honda sold the molds to make these 125cc engines that were on these trikes to the Chinese company making them, and I am sure once Honda got wind, that they had enough influence to stop it, and enough influence with our government to have them propose it in a ban.

Sounds like corruption doesn't it? How does any company have a right to influence CPSC rules? It's just more government, and big business corruption, and that is what OWS is fighting against. The second thing in common we have with them.

Now putting aside comparisons for the rest of this thread, like TimSr proposed we can move forward. I will start a OWS thread, and we can go over what they stand for, and you guys can tell me why you support, or don't support them.

There was a lot more that he told me. He was warned that Honda's lawyers better not find out what he is doing (if they don't already know). He, or any other small 3 wheeler part supplier or conversion company does not have the resources to fight against Honda. It is currently not illegal to reproduce, produce, or convert any three wheeler parts or machines

My question to him was, what are you going to do when they eventually do come for him.

This whole thing just pisses me off more. To outline it:
1. We have the original idiots who behaved irresponsibly and got the attention of the pediatrics society that got the ball rolling
2. We have the media that blew it all out of proportion
3. We have the government that pressured 3 wheel makers into agreeing not to make them anymore
4. We have Honda who went along with it
5. Now we have possible corruption that would prevent you me or anyone else from ever making a three wheeler again.
6. The possibility remains that any conversion or reproduction of three wheeler parts could be banned in the future.

If there was a way to prove this corruption, I believe we could fight it, and put an end to any ban ideas permanently.

Then through the long term efforts of people like TimSr and everyone who is trying to race and ride responsibly, and through informational videos, we can turn it around, and maybe one day everyone will know the truth. I was told that even in the original CPSC reports that the CPSC does not actually blame the machine?. I think the biggest problem was that little kids were getting hurt riding machines that they shouldn't have been on. That will draw negative attention to any hobby, once kids start getting hurt. I agree with that. But again, it wasn't the machines fault. It was the irresponsible parents, and dealers that were selling these things as "safe". No off-road vehicle is "safe". No motorized vehicle is "safe". But the American government, or any big companies influence or said government shouldn't have a right to take it away from us, even if Honda did start it.

I am not going to do anything that would hurt the livelihood of TPC, or any other trike companies, without their support. The owner of TPC completely agrees with me, and it is his goal to eventually turn this thing around.