84 Tecate transmission oil leak

[up-tyte]

So I have a 84 tecate that when it sets it is leaking oil out the bottom. My first question is do I have to split the case to fix this? The second question is that the engine really smokes, is there a way that the trans oil can get into the cylinder and if I ride it this way what damage can it cause. The trike runs real strong and keeps up with the 85 my son has, it just really smokes.

[gage]

Its all the same oil, it should smoke, a little. Depends where the leak is. Most of myn have leaked from the drain plug.

[kawasaki666]

Uh . . . 2 Stroke oil is waaay differen't than the oil that goes in the crank case!!! If it's not leaking from the drain plug, then yes, you have to split the cases to fix the leak. Excessive smoke could be from the Crank Seals leaking, into the combustion chamber. Not a terrible thing, but should be fixed, soon.

[gage]

Uh . . . 2 Stroke oil is waaay differen't than the oil that goes in the crank case!!!

Well I wasnt talking about ALL the oil, I just meant the bottom end. But ya.

[just ben]

Well I wasnt talking about ALL the oil, I just meant the bottom end. But ya.

and you would still be wrong,do I need to explain? if it is pulling in oil from the transmission it would be the right side crank seal,if it is leaking oil from anywhere beside the oil plug then the case needs to be spit(in both cases)my best guess would be that the cases were not sealed properly the last time they were apart which would explain both of your problems. not to worry they are the simlest of simple engines to work on but if it is a center sealing issue I would still spend the few bucks and do all of the seals while it is apart

[up-tyte]

Didn't even think about the drain plug, I will check that this weekend but think it is more than that. I don't know anything about 2 strokes, all our other trikes are 4's. I was reading some other posts about splitting the cases and they talked about heating and cooling the bearings and cases, is that correct? They also mentioned pressing and pulling the case halves together. The Honda 4 strokes just slide together. Who makes a good gasket set that includes the seals? Anything else I should check or replace while I'm in there, like I said it runs really well other than the smoke.

[atc007]

I would say,,8 tomes out of 10.. Your drain bolt,,or more than likely,,your countershaft oil seal or clutch cover gasket. DO NOT go splitting your engine just yet!! Yes,,it MAY need it, But troubleshoot it!! SImply,,degrease,and steam clean it. If you don't have access to a good steam jenny or pressure washer. Go to the carwash. Get ya some purple degreaser from Wal mart or Auto zone{ Castrol knock off,any brand} I've found it works better than the Castrol, anyhow, Pressure the entire bike,but specifically the engine,lay it on it's side,wash the bottom,EVERY nook and cranny. Now,degrease the entire engine,let it soak 5 minutes or less. Steam it again. Let her dry. Start and let idle,,now SEE where the leak is! That easy. NO GUESSING. You WILL SEE it. My bet is it's simpler. However,if the smoke is tranny oil,,yes,you are ingesting tranny fluid on the clutch side. Are you and your son running the same premix oil I presume? Same jetting?. Check your plug to see what he says. . Good luck!

[up-tyte]

I looks like my leaks are coming from the Right Engine Cover gasket and the seal around the External Shift Shaft. The biggest leak is from around the Shift Shaft, the end of the shaft even looks bent, would that have to be cut off before I pull it out? As for the trans oil getting into the engine, is there anyway to confirm that is what is happening before I tear it apart? When I split the case will it just come apart easy or are the bearings pressed on the crank or in the case half?

[fabiodriven]

That would be your left case half, not your right. Sometimes you do have to cut them to get the case apart. I've seen some pretty tweaked shafts slide through though. It depends on how bent it is. And in case you haven't yet figured it out, the bent shaft is probably the main cause of your leak.

You said you're not familiar with two strokes so let's start with the beginning. Most of the suggestions above are fairly sound (except the guy who has no clue how the inside of a two stroke engine works) but they're jumping ahead.

I've never personally seen an oil-side crank seal let go. The dry side goes all the time, and that's because it's dry. The oil side seals seem to last a lot longer and like I said, I've never seen one fail to the point the engine was sucking tranny oil. I'm in no way saying that can't happen, I'm sure it has. I've never seen it though.

You do realize that two strokes are supposed to smoke, especially on a cold start?

What kind of two stroke oil are you using? If you're using the Walmart brand or some other crap it's probably going to smoke more than with a quality oil. Not only that, but your engine will not last long with that junk.

What ratio are you mixing your gas at? The manufacturer's recommendation uses a lot more oil than you do with a quality modern oil, so you could easily be mixing it too thick.

You have to start with the basics and go from there. Take your time and think through everything. You could easily overlook a simple issue chasing major overhauls. Any monkey can change parts. A real mechanic is the one who can diagnose.

[just ben]

fabio, I think he was saying that the right side case was leaking in addition to the shift shaft. if he is leaking oil on the left side cover he definetly has issues! to answer the question about the pressed bearings ect. the right side is pressed onto the crank and the left is pressed into the case. If you do end up splitting the cases pull the shift side off to keep the tranny intact. they really are simple engines, I have swapped a crank in less than 2 hrs with beer breaks or maybe work breaks lol

[fabiodriven]

Gotcha. I missed that "and".

[up-tyte]

I know the shaft is leaking for sure, not as positive about the right cover but there is oil along that seem underneath so those two items are an easy fix. I'm assuming the shaft will just slide out the right side when the cover is off, similar to the Honda 200x. I know they are supposed to smoke some and we are using a good grade oil mixing it 20 to 1 as stated in the service manual. We are running the same mix in the 85, if I would rate the smoke from the 85 at a 1 then the 84 is closer to a 4 or 5. The only thing I can think would be the trans oil cause that is what we have to keep filling and I don't think it is all leaking out. Maybe I should fix the two leaks first and then see what it does.

[fabiodriven]

There's your problem. 20:1 is far too much oil. please re-read what I wrote about the mix ratio. I'd mix it more at 50:1 or so, depending on the oil you're using.

Back when these machines were made, they didn't have the good oils we have today. That's why they had people mixing the oil so thick. With the oil we have now you don't need nearly as much because it's so much better than what was available in the early 80's.

If you're mixing at 20:1, I can almost guarantee that's the source of your excessive smoke.

Edit- But that doesn't explain why one Tecate would smoke more than the other, assuming you're using the same gas in both machines.

[fabiodriven]

When I do bottom ends Glamy, I use nothing but OEM bearings and seals. Ordering a-la-cart from Kawi is the best way to do it.

Also, Bikebandit has some really good exploded views that I just printed out and use as a manual. TecateDan has done this a lot more recently than I have so we can see what he uses.

[El Camexican]

Edit- But that doesn't explain why one Tecate would smoke more than the other, assuming you're using the same gas in both machines.

I'd think richer jetting could make one smoke a lot more than another all other things being equal.