It's going to be a bumpy ride America

[Billy Golightly]

Watching the videos, the one on ebaums world, commical, and true. I don't disagree with that sentiment very much, but I disagree for the reasons. I think we're questionably not the greatest country in the world anymore because of all the senseless rules and regulations we've subject ourselves to all the while encouraging our competitors to kick our own asses with processes and technologies we invented but don't find "environmentally friendly" anymore. I mean, you have to go to Mexico to get a good chroming job on bike parts and thats 100% absolutely NO BULLSHIT because the EPA has too strict of handling procedures and doesn't even allow the use of some of the chemicals anymore so we're left with an inferior process. While our counterparts take the processes we for the most part either originated or perfected and run with it while we're stuck with the way to do things. Thats why we suck.

Just playing devils advocate here.

Second video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEuJimaumW4

The first "got ya" is Guiliani's "we were told the wtc was gonna collapse":

1: The bottom of the video is cut off where you can't see the time stamp. This was obviously recorded after the towers had fallen (I watched firefighters I knew run into the building, its gonna be a horrible number, etc.). I think in the heat of the moment, thats an easy slip of the tongue or miss-statement for "we were told it had collapsed". But I'll play a long with the theory he knew it was going to come down ahead of time. Why does the audio abruptly end there? Maybe he actually corrects himself in the clip or maybe it was taken out of context? The video cuts it off too quick to know for sure...

2: Building #7 being demo'd, I don't really dispute that. I think I remember even hearing that on the news the same day as the main towers went down. It was either damaged from falling from the others, or there had been some gas mains leaking they didn't want spreading into the other debris field, or something. I distinctly recall that being mentioned on live news ON september 11th though because I was glued to the tv for like 2 days.

The guy saying that it fell due to fire alone sounds like a voice over to me. Wheres someone like Guiliani saying that it collapsed just due to fire, or a fire chief, or someone prominent? Actually, you can take that clip they used in the beginning about "WTC was gonna come down" from Guiliani and say he was talking about this one, wtc building #7. Maybe I'm just crazy and the only one that ever heard them say they were going to actually demo building #7, but I don't understand all the hoopla over that. They mentioned there were office spaces housed the CIA/NSA/etc. etc. following on whyzee's theory, they easily could have had some highly classified stuff in there, and with the building being evacuated, and thousands of people running around there could have been a real concern for a security breach where they did it for that reason too. Theres a clip shown of the Firefighters saying to stand back because it should be coming down any moment, see I think I remember watching that on TV before. I don't know, but I don't think anyone was hurt/killed in the fall of building #7, was there?


I'll watch the other ones and give my feedback on them later on.

[Billy Golightly]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...17427531377078

This video:

2:46 in and I've already caught and seen the guy use some NLP tricks (Word association to elicit certain emotions, hand gestures to anchor those feelings with his movements, etc.). This should be interesting.

(Since we're all googling and opening our minds to new things, do some searching on "Neuro Linguistic Programmin". Specifically about what Bandler and whatever that other guys name was that invented/discovered the process.



this guy is good. Horizontal Hand cutting at 3:39 "No conspiracy theory". A little after that vertical hand cutting for "Could be possible" type terms. More anchoring. My bet is I see these same gestures again later on when he is trying to convince me of something and elicit those same emotions he anchored with here in the beginning....


Who are these people with the quotes coming up? in the 6:20 range. Anyone can type some text up on a video and put a name behind it. Just Sayin.


Guy in yellow polo shirt (Looks very civilian to me) 6:50 range "It looked like a cruise missle with wings just slammed into the side of the building." Probably like the rest of us and never seen a cruise missile in person.

8:07 mark, picture at the bottom right corner. If thats suppose to be at the Pentagon I need a bigger high res version of that to look at, because its so close up and so cropped out, it looks like it could be anything. Could be the hole in the side of the USS Cole for all we are able to tell by fact. It does a good job of making us assume what it is though by placing it with other images that we know as fact.

10:00 Mark, re smoke and heat damage (or lack thereof) at the pentagon. If memory serves me correctly the plane that hit the Pentagon had a much shorter flight plan originally and therefore had probably much less fuel (Could be wrong, thats what I remember)

10:25, re book on stool, pages not even singed. Who the hell reads a book on a stool, in the Pentagon no less? Thats probably the cover and padding ripped open on the top, but thats a minor thing.


12:00 mark, Re tail section slamming into the Pentagon. I'm not sure how many of you fly often, or even have flown before. I never did until a few years ago but now I fly 3-4 times a year. I've often sat at the window seats and looked out over the wings flopping and moving up and down as we taxi the run way. Planes are built to be light weight, and flimsy. Hell, Southwest Airlines had a section of their fuselage rip open a few months ago just from flying the damn thing in the air: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._boeing05.html That was a 737, but I've flown on a 757 too and They do the same , believe me. The Pentagon, by definition was to be built like a brick outhouse. Its kinda like, shooting a beer can into a concrete block wall. I'm kind of surprised it did as much damage as it did from the impact alone. Keep in mind also, the Pentagon was designed in layers. I'm not smart enough to understand the physics, but I know and most other people will agree that something made up of multiple layers in the same dimensions as a solid item will be stronger. Just saying.

Re: Video footage. That probably was the only footage available. John Smith probably had been sleeping on the job and didn't have working or turned on, and in order to save themselves the embarassment of telling the public "Hey guys, uhh, we uhh forgot to have the cams on, or that one at the other corner had a foggy lens so we unhooked it" or whatever, its easier to just say "Classified" to cover their asses. Government efficiency, Its a plausible reason to not have footage, you've got to admit. (No offense intended to any government workers, but you get my point)

Re: Gas station footage that was confiscated. Wheres clerk/owner/whoever there at time that happened to talk about it?

Re: Book talking about crater depth/width, Written by California University. But not actually there. Probability that writers and editors were high on california pot and had never seen the site in person since it was on the opposite end of the country, fairly probable.

Re: Hole diameter being only 16ft. Despite the whole "45ft high" statement (Which is just the tip top of the tail) the actual fuselage diameter (The only part with enough mass to actually penetrate a brick house, cause it aint the floppy wings) is under 13ft in diameter from a little googling. Seems about right, 757 isn't THAT big.

17:40 mark or thereabouts. No Debris, no wings, no wheels, no seats, no nothing. Well, you wouldn't see any seats because thats in the fuselage and woulda went in the hole. You wouldn't see any wheels for the same reason. Or luggage. But as the guy is saying there is no debris if you stop the video at the 17:41 mark and look over the onlookers left shoulder, that looks like chunks of wing paneling to me...

18:28 mark, 6-7 guys standing around just above the cop car talking and looking at the fire while probably 2 guys actually in the truck spray the foam

19:15 Re Height of the Boeing 757 is 45ft 6inches. Thats for the very top of the tail section ONLY. The very LAST part to touch the building and probably the flimsy and chintziest of all. Do your research as to what the actual height of the fuselage is. I aint never been into or seen a terminal at the airport 45ft up off the ground. Total twist of the facts. And even if it did hit, they are focusing on the top 3 floors. That would be above the 45ft height of the tail anyways.

20:44 Mark, Look at the gigantic assed black smoldering mark on the side of the building. The Pentagon is what, like 75ft high? Maybe thats where some of all that fuel ended up?

23:00 mark re impact simulation. This thing was done by a bunch of engineers? You've got to be shitting me. Theres no way the wings would have made it in as far as what their showing. Thers no consideration for a flat frontal impact, if you watch it they only simulate damage as they hit the support columns. Steel is strong and all, but the concrete around those steel support isn't exactly hot butter to flow through. I really question what the original intent and use of that video was, if a simulation of the plane hitting the pentagon is even what it was intended to be used for. Waay too many flaws in it that even an uneducated guy like me can spot in just a few seconds. Then he says it took out 50 support columns, do you see any support columns missing. Well, no, but if you watch the simulation (Not that I'm really willing to trust it) but you'll notice that the first few it shows the plane hitting actually split the fuselage like a ribbon, and they stay in place around the 23:27 mark. So his own video is disproving what he is saying, while he is saying it...

And then shows the animation of the wings breaking off, which makes sense to me, and I think there are photos of some wreckage, like i mentioned above. But I also don't think there would been very much I mean again, your litterally shooting a beer can into a concrete block wall at several hundred miles per hour...its going to shread itself. Like, heres a picture: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...on-engine1.jpg

25:53 757 engines 9ft in diameter, That seems like a big stretch to me My shop door is 14ft high. Again, I've flown in 757's and looked out the window at the engines, I think there'd be a lot more than 5ft left above one if you put it in my shop door.

26:12, haha, yes, right there, the Turbofan is approximately 7ft in diameter. The largest exterior part of the engine other than the sheet metal skin is 7ft across. That sounds a lot more probable.


26:36, no, its not a rotor from a 757. Its another part of the jet engine. Its a compressor disc from a 757, http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...comparison.jpg and also: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...tagon/jt8d.jpg For all the guys from Rolls Royce that said thats not aaprt of any plane they know of, I found a part in 30 seconds of googling that matches the shape, size, and probability for a compressor disc.

27:51, Found another NLP anchor, his hand gestures again, horizontal hand cuts as he is talking about the obsfucation of information that they might be guilty.



I'm gonna stop there for tonight, but I'm glad you guys got me to watch these. I've heard all the rumors all the years and theories and ideas but I'd never taken the time to actually listen to them and watch them and think about them. So far this has totally removed all doubt in my mind that anything but a plane hit the pentagon

[fabiodriven]

Good show William!

[FourtyCaliber]

"The buildings that fell on 9/11 were destroyed through controlled demolition. This is fact. Explosions were heard that day and that was discussed extensively for about the first week or so after 9/11. For some reason though, it's not been discussed thoroughly for quite some time now and it has almost been forgotten about, just like they want. Just forget about those explosions, they didn't happen. Even though there is video evidence, eye witness accounts from people who were on the scene, and irrefutable scientific evidence of thermite within the rubble of the fallen tower. Thermite, ladies and gentlemen. If you don't know what thermite is, have a peek- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite It is used to penetrate armor or cut through metal. The towers that fell that day were constructed of steel beams. Steel beams that COULD NOT have been damaged enough by a commercial airliner and the fuel it carried aboard. The fuel that was carried aboard those planes WAS NOT enough fuel to cause the demise of those towers. This is fact."

I agree with a LOT of what you said. However, what you state here is completely contrary to your earlier assertion that what you are presenting is opinion and not fact. What you state here is NOT fact. You have seen television shows, watched videos, listened to other people's OPINIONS supporting this premise, etc, etc, etc. Their views of this apparently agree with your views of this. Or, their views of this have convinced you that these views are indeed true (in your mind). This does NOT make these assertions presentable and argued as fact. For every theory you see like this, there is a contrary, conflicting theory to discredit it. There are always going to be conspiracy theorists who question anything that has happened or what mankind has done. Many people choose to fall for that or believe one thing over another. That will never change.

For every presentation that I have viewed or read on this matter, I have seen another expert who has presented facts supporting the premise that indeed an airliner loaded with jet fuel could have indeed cause the destruction of a building in the exact way that the towers were destroyed.

This is America and you are free to think as you wish and believe whatever you want. You are NOT entitled to present your beliefs as fact. You ARE entitled to state you beliefs and support those beliefs with evidence that YOU BELIEVE to be true. In the end it is still belief, not fact. It is your opinion.

Maybe things happened like you believe. Maybe they didn't. We probably will never know.

We never walked on the moon. We never landed a rover on Mars. We never were able to view microscopic atoms and the electrons, protons, and neutrons they contain. Is everything a conspiracy? Is everyone out to get you? Can they read your mind? Are you really you? Are your thoughts yours? Are you the only honest person there is?

I asked the last question because I wonder what you think about how hard it is to keep a secret? Pretty much everyone would have to be dishonest in order to pull off something like that. You're better off playing the odds. Odds are, that's not the case.

[fabiodriven]

I do appreciate your point of view regarding my usage of the word "fact" and you are right about that. I was pretty riled up about what I was writing when I wrote it.

I'm taking a step back and looking at myself and I'm thinking I may be turning into one of those crazy old vets we all see. Hey, it happens.

[Billy Golightly]

Good show William!

I really did watch these with an open mind, but I watched them with the video playing in one window and I was stopping and thinking/fact checking in the other one. A lot of the statements taken at face value (Yes, a 757 is 45ft high and the hole in the pentagon was about 16ft high) Support alternative theories. But when you learn that the fuselage of the 757 is about 13ft and realize that is where the majority of the impact force was coming from, it makes more sense. I'm not saying the guy deliberately twisted the facts to support some cause or agenda, just that a lot of stuff is not as clearly or accurately explained as it could be.

The NLP stuff is totally 100% intentionally trying to "mind control" you though

[Scootertrash]

First and foremost, I believe this is America, and you are free to think what you wish. I do know that whenever something like this happens a lot of so called experts seem to come out of the woodwork. I also know that everyone that day, EVERYONE was under a huge amount of stress, confusion, and chaos. Police, firefighters, news reporters and regular citizens. This was an event that no one in this country had experienced before. While some may have trained for a possible event such as this, training and the actual event are VERY different. There is no way you can train for all of the potential things that can happen with an event like this. Two buildings were hit by commercial jetliners with thousands of gallons of fuel, flying at high rates of speed. Those buildings are not designed to absorb that kind of impact. There is no way anyone can predict how the buildings will react. Even in the future there will only be WAG (Wild Ass Guesses) if this happens again. No two events will ever be the same

OK. A few random thoughts and comments from others on another board that was discussing the same topic. Including one individual who is a firefighter and was there.
None of these comments are meant to piss anyone off. There are a couple of funny ones, a few very good points, and one person pissed because some Americans actually would believe their government would do this to thousands of their own people to lay the blame on someone else, instead of accepting the fact that there are others out there who hate our country enough to do something like this, particularly those with a history of attacks on Americans, along with a previously failed attempt on the same building.:

I didn't wake up with a boner that day. I knew something was terribly wrong when that happened.

This quote is from the Firefighter:

I neither heard nor saw any explosions in 7WT.

Back to quotes from others:

I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theory that requires government competence as a prerequisite

So how exactly did the evil Government get Al Qaeda to take credit for the attacks?
Did the conversation go something like this:
"We need you guys to do us a favor and take the blame for us, in return we are going to kill you and everyone you know. Deal?"

It was obviously filmed in the same studio as the moon landings.

And then you have the spinoff of this where certain people will say that Bush was the diabolical mastermind behind every ill in the world, and yet they were surprised that he could eat a bowl of cereal without drowning in it. Can't have it both ways, but they try.

Our Government can't keep a blow job secret when there were only two people in the room. Multiply that by thousands and tell me how they can all of the sudden be a frigging master of secrecy.

I will say... it's awfully odd that at the beginning of every major war... something pulls us into it.

(my comment to this is "No S**T Sherlock"!)

In the name of political correctness and not offending anyone the government stacked the deck with incompetent mouthbreathers in positions of national defense and federal law enforcement and made it a cake walk for a bunch of terrorists to train in plain sight on American soil and then carry out an attack.

The truther movement started on 9/12/2001 by radical islamic mullahs attempting to deflect the blame from the muslim radicals that did it, to the US Government. It is shocking how many of y'all fall for that.

Here's another real simple argument: Americans are GOOD people. Go outside and try to find me a few hundred or so that would be interested in killing tens of thousands of their fellow citizens. Let me know when you find them.

Conspiracy Theory: The belief that a government that f***s up everything it touches, and that a government that can't keep a frigging blow job secret, is simultaneously capable of incredible sophistication, in keeping hundreds if not thousands of co-conspirators quiet.

No we are f****ing pissed that people try to deflect the blame from the murder of 3000 people from the c*******ers who did it, onto our government. Essentially saying we did it to ourselves. That is bullshit and a slap in the face to every American who volunteered to serve this country and go to those shitholes overseas and spend months away from their families to fight terrorists since that time.

Popular Mechanics debunks the conspiracy theories:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...y/news/1227842

Debunking WTC7:
http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm

And I can't leave out a you tube vid debunking the pentagon hit:

[atc007]

Must be a Fla thing?? lol,,We'll all believe what we want I guess. I haven't had any time to dig through all of this. Little busy this week. What I have seen,I know what side I'm on.

[Billy Golightly]

Just read some of the points I make (And watch the video at the time frames I mention too) with the same open mind you did originally. Thats all ya can do!

[Slingblade]

I watched the videos last week, and while I didn't take notes and certainly didn't notice the hand gestures and such like the much brighter Mr. Golightly, I came away with alot of the same views.

It's super obvious some of those eyewitness accounts were cut mid-sentence, Right after the words that the editor wanted you to hear. Taken out of context, maybe??

And the clip about the pentagon where the guy is drilling the poor old taxi driver about Exactly where he was and which light pole fell on his car. (They claim the broken light poles were staged. ?) I felt a strong urge to hit that punk in the mouth. And then they brake out the charts with all the witnesses accounts of the flight pattern of the plane. You know- The one they say was never there- And everybody's was a little different, Ya think? I've been in the woods with two guys and watch a deer run off and we couldn't agree on exactly where it went, and we had reference points.

I could go on but I'll sum it up like this,

Do I trust the Government of these United States?, HAAAIL No! And I also won't give them credit for pulling this off and keeping it secret. (Note Blowjob reference above, pretty much sums it up)
Do I trust all these eyewitness accounts? These people that were no doubt still in shock and disbelief over what they had witnessed, Sorry, but no.
Do I trust this guy in the Mr. Rogers sweater that I feel is trying to insert these thoughts in my head?, He don't even look trustworthy. No.

I have adopted a new creed. It's not a quote from our fore-fathers, the Bible, or some great literary work. It's not even grammatically correct.

I saw it a couple of months ago somewhere in Georgia. It was created in airbrush and attached to the front bumper of a mid-80's Monte Carlo, It simply stated,

DON'T TRUST NOBODY!

That is All

[aldochina]

enjoy it or not!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts2FoxHaHCk
i think it sums it up! recorded in 89, but truer today than ever!!

ive read and watched every link posted! all good stuff, tough to digest! I so much want to jump on the conspiracy wagon, because i'm so pissed to be a middle class white american with this rediculous political machine!! Sure am glad to see some of the "theory" debunked though!! God help us regaurdless!

anyone else wish they were living in the 1920's!

PLEASE if you click the link turn it up LOUD!! thats how it should be absorbed!
sorry couldnt find a vid!

[DasUberKraut]

I agree completely fabio. Thank you for posting this.

[ama009]

Awesome post Fabio! I had seen these videos before and had made up my mind. It is not that other countries or governments are more corrupt, the issue is that the American government is better at covering it all up! Lately they have become desperate, they have slipped up, and people are getting smarter! I did not used to think this way. On 9/11 I wanted to leave my dorm room, enlist, and go kick some !! But I was naive then. Now, I see things differently.

[Mosh]

I did not read this whole thread. I made it to about page 5, and may go back and reread it. But I do not need to watch anymore videos or read anymore books about 9-11 being an inside job or planned attack.
It was..I said so from about 3 months after the event..Even on here somewhere I said that about 5 years ago and I believe I got berated for stating such a controverisal post at the time.

The question is why was it planned and who was involved..

Well, number 1...Govt control..At the time it was a perfect reason to implement the "patriot act"..Well many of us know what that is..A pre plan to a military police state, society. 9-11 was a perfect scapegoat for a "new rule".. I am sure we are gonna see a rash of new gun laws implemented here shortly over that Colorado movie theater shoot-up, which I believe was some stool pigeon set-up by a governing body to underline and push a further agenda..More Gun control..If you don't believe that they may eventually take our guns away, you better think again.

Number 2...Money..wheter people want to believe it or not, our governments' control basically stops at pushing its little nation of people around..Us..However, our government is controlled by world corporations, and banks hell bent on greed and financial gain..When governments are at war spending 10 billion a day, someone is making interest off that money..And it ain't us, and it sure as hell ain't our government.

Also world corporation and banking systems have implemented every plan to financially weaken and subdue the USA's power. They have been instrumental in setting up operations over-seas, for hard goods manufacturing, and instrumental in pulling our very own manufacturing tools and equipment right out from under us..The scary thing is, during all major wars we have been involved in, if we fell short on supplies, it took a matter of hours to convert an in house private facility like GM, FORD, Boeing, or C.A.T. factorys, to convert and ramp up war time materials like plane parts and bombs and tanks..Now most of those, presses, stamping machines, hard resource materials, have been torn down, and sold to China, Brazil and all other countries across the pond..Compound that with the Governments new "teaching curriculum" in our school systems, basically leaves us with no new generations of kids, even knowing what craftsmanship, skilled trades, or building things even is anymore..Dare I say now, that if we were to become involved with a major long drawn out war, We would have no resources or abilities, to sustain our hardcore millitary materials, nor not enough people that would know how to build or produce them..And I am sure those overseas countries will just be so willing to help us..LOL if you can read the sarcasm there.

[Dirtcrasher]

Just a 5 minute video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOwTTieqiHE