It's going to be a bumpy ride America

[El Camexican]

Well Flabio I watched all the clips you posted with the exception of the movie which I watched a few years back. While I can’t explain a lot of what is shown and insinuated I do have trouble with a few things I’d like to point out. First of all is the steel and how it reacts in heat. As far as I know it bends, it twists and if it is stressed (like would be the case in the Towers) I could see it tearing. As far as what looked like coordinated explosives in the main towers, (if I recall that movie correctly) would it not stand to reason that as each floor above fell the pressure would force out the windows on the floor below making it look like a timed explosion? If heat was the reason the buildings collapsed would it not make sense that the centers were the hot spots and that that was where the collapses began, just like a planned demolition? I can’t disprove any of what was said, but I’m not taking the hook, line and sinker on the first bite either. Secrets are hard to keep, each time a lie is told more must be told to cover for the first one and usually that’s when the best laid of plans starts to fall apart. The more people that are involved the less likely the secret is to be kept. In order for these theories to be true it would require that hundreds if not thousands of people to keep quiet. Demolition teams, explosives dealers, maintenance workers, politicians, pilots, air traffic controllers, families of passengers and the list goes on. I just can’t get myself to believe that that many people can keep a secret and that only one or two will talk about it. Where are the guys who pulled the triggers on missiles aimed at American property? In short if someone tells me they saw a cat bark I will need to see it for myself. What concerns me more than these possibly orchestrated events is the resulting loss of freedoms for those of us that are not guilty. I travel a lot and cross international borders at least 30 times a year. I have seen the crossings go from a few friendly questions and the flash of a driver’s license to what amounts to a body search that includes borderline lewd acts of fondling. While I don’t like it I can understand why it is necessary when boarding a jet (thank you nut jobs), but to see it happening within the cities of the US while the same government that is backing such invasions of privacy is at the same time facilitating the influx of illegal aliens leads me to only one explanation: POWER GRAB. Every time something happens the government takes the opportunity to grab a handful of power. They hire more employees to check your id and secure your borders and then don’t let the border patrols detain illegals that are crossing because some day that illegal will vote for them and help drain the resources that will require more taxes to replenish them. Some simple math (that makes me fear Canada) Add up the citizens. Determine how many are in school or younger, working, retired, and those who are receiving some sort of public assistance. Then of those who are working determine how many are working for the government (regardless of level) Cops (all of them) Military, FBI, CIA, Politicians, D.A.’s, Secret Service, CBP, ICE, TSA, city workers, State employees, federal Employees, etc. I’m sure I missed many. Now think about how many of those who are working for the private sector (usually for less money that those getting a government check) it takes to support this monster. I don’t have the numbers in my head, but I recall Canada was on a fast track to broke when I guestemated this many years ago. That is why they are letting so many people pour into the country to help pay the massive cost of the socialist machine that is Canada. So moving on, if your income is tied to the government how likely are you going to be to take up arms and fight the beast? To make sure this never happens the US now has cameras all over the place and urban drone programs are well under way for “your protection”. Every time the government takes control of a part of your life you have less reason to oppose their will. As Americans you have the greatest constitution in the history of mankind, yet you fail to follow it the way the forefathers intended for you (they were geniuses) and sadly, for this sin you, or your offspring will eventually have to spill blood to recover your freedoms, but I doubt it will be for years as there are far too many who are content to just keep giving up freedoms for another day of peace. It won’t be until food and water are scarce that the big trouble will start, but by then big brother will be so powerful it will be able to crush an uprising with ease. At some point the whole cycle of civilization will begin again, just like it did when Rome and other great nations of the past got too big for their own good.

Here are a couple links that might raise your eyebrows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IldGbAWwD-I
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO...CS/BODIES.html

[fabiodriven]

Mike, you can ask me as many questions as you want.

I was first amazed at how a nation could "pull together" the way ours did after 9/11, but I questioned it. It's in my nature to question things. It didn't seem right to me but I couldn't pin point why. I just felt like something was wrong with it.

I questioned things more when our government manufactured a lie to get us over there. People can tell me all day that our government made a mistake. It was no mistake that they didn't find weapons of mass destruction. There are people in all branches of our government that have lives in the palms of their hands every day. People who, if they made a mistake, other people would die. Our government entrusts people with jobs that require no mistakes are made, ever. There are fail safes upon fail safes for everything. Somehow though, some way, our government was able to "overlook" the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Oopsie! No big deal. They only deployed our ENTIRE military and killed countless people. They made Saddam out to be an evildoer, a villain. Somebody who deserved retribution, and we would deliver it. He was an evil man who ruled with an iron fist.

Regardless of how Saddam ruled his country, it's still his country. How he ruled his country was none of our business and didn't warrant our presence. But we were already there based on the guise that Saddam wanted to attack us. We all know Saddam started the problem with us, don't we? It said so on the news. The problem I have with that is our government owns the media outlets. I'm sorry, but that is a conflict of interest. There is enough greed in Washington to lie to the American public and then some. If you think our government wouldn't lie to the American people, you are wrong. THIS IS NOT THEORY, THIS IS FACT. Your government has lied to you all and everyone you know. It's documented over and over and over. But they're telling the truth this time? I don't facking think so.

So since we're already in Iraq, why not instill some democracy? Let's show these people how it's done! Democracy for all!

Here's a thought- What if those people don't want democracy? What if democracy isn't the government of choice for the Iraqi people? Did anyone stop and ask themselves that while we were cramming the notion of democracy down their throats and pissing all over the entire point of democracy?

The Iraqi people are animals. They are not us and they do not live like us. If something works for us, it doesn't necessarily mean it will work for them. These are people who live in huts and carry AK-47's everywhere they go. If they had their equivalent of a "meeting of congress", men would get shot during the meeting. Is this wrong? Not in Iraq. It may seem wrong to Americans but guess what? This is America, that is Iraq. They should be able to run their country any way they want.

If anybody seriously thinks that this "threat" from Iraq was serious enough that they could reach the shores of North America, they need to look into the Iraqi military. Tanks from WWII, a handful of helicopters, I'm not positive but I think they literally had one fighter jet. "Oh but they hijacked a jet!" Iraq did not hijack a jet.

So we invaded a foreign country for what? Can anybody tell me? Why did we go to Iraq? Once we got there and the reason was false, why did we stay?

Saddam did rule with an iron fist. That's all those people know. That is why they were ruled the way they were, because it's the only way they'll stay in line. Look at them now that Saddam's gone. They're just falling right into place, aren't they? Everything is all fixed in Iraq now that they have democracy. I'd have to say it was worth all of the money, all of the effort, all of the heart break, and every single one of the lives lost if you look at Iraq today. It's a shining example of democracy now, is it not?

But the TV says it's much better over there so...

They tell us that Osama Bin Laden is dead and we're all supposed to rejoice. It's like a conductor standing at his podium cuing us all to applaud. Whoever thinks that our government can't find a man who lives in a cave doesn't know our government very well. Our government can find anyone they want. If they had wanted Bin Laden dead the week after 9/11, he would have been dead.

I remember years ago hearing people talk about some of the facts about 9/11 I now know to be true. The hole in the Pentagon being the wrong size, the lack of wreckage both there and in PA, etc, etc. I thought those were just theories so I didn't pay them much mind. I really didn't buy into the popular, commonly accepted story of 9/11, with the box cutters and hijackers and all of that. I didn't have any reason to believe it, but I had plenty of reasons not to. Our government lies all of the time. Again people, THIS IS FACT. I base every decision I make in my life on the truth. I do not like lies and I do not like liars. One simple lie can change the way I look at a person from that point forward. Our government has lied to us all many, many times. This is something that I know and I will never forget. Our government is shot. It is full of liars. Their business, is to lie. Everyone knows this, but why does everyone accept it? I refuse it. I choose to think for myself and form my own thoughts based on fact. As stated before, I may miss out on some things by not watching the news or reading the paper, but I don't want to know what they want me to know. I'll get the facts when the dust settles.

So basically Mike, this has been something that's been forming inside of me for quite some time. I watched the two documentaries that I posted and read the book at about the same time, about a month or a month and a half ago. Those documentaries show you photographic evidence, scientific evidence, and eye witness accounts from those who have no vested interest in whomever is to blame for anything. These people are impartial. They saw and heard what happened, and there is video to back up their claims, yet their questions go unanswered. Their shouting goes unheard. They gather in droves and are ignored. Why is this? Why is it that these people can not get an answer to their questions? Why would our government, the government by the people and for the people, ignore such an outcry?

The simple answer that we all know should we choose to look is that they can not give us the answer to the questions being asked. Why would such an atrocity go uninvestigated and have the very evidence of who would commit such an act obscured immediately after? The biggest crime scene in the world, the biggest "foreign" invasion of all time committed on American soil and we cart the evidence off to all corners of the globe to be destroyed right off the bat. Does this not make sense to anyone else?

Your media will lead you to believe that Osama Bin Laden took credit for 9/11, but he never actually did. The "video footage" you saw was grainy beyond belief and very poorly translated. Some even say his videos were edited together. I wouldn't doubt it. Every single thing you watch on TV these days is edited. But the media wouldn't edit that, would they? If Bin Laden ever had his day in court, let's call it Bin Laden vs The American People, America wouldn't stand a chance. They would ask America for their side, America would say "He did it", and that would be it. The evidence is gone. That case would get thrown right out of court.

I choose my outlets of information and avoid the main stream media. I like being happy and optimistic regardless of the state of the world today. I try not to dwell on the big picture because there isn't a whole lot I can do to change it. I refuse, however, to watch the talking heads on TV give me a fake smile and tell me what to think, whether it be good or bad. I don't need their propaganda. I can form my own thoughts. The human brain worked just fine for eons before the last few years where man decided it could be improved from chemicals. Chemicals manufactured by man and never designed to be ingested by the human body. There are natural remedies to many, many ailments but they take a back seat artificially manufactured drugs that may mimic the benefit of the natural remedy, but always have a side effect. There is no such thing as a cure all drug. They're all addictive, they all have side effects, and everyone is hooked on them. The TV sells them to you and tells you of ailments you otherwise wouldn't have ever thought you had, so you must need that drug! Uncle Sam is the biggest drug pusher in the world and it makes me sick.

But I digress...

Open your eyes people.

[fabiodriven]

First of all is the steel and how it reacts in heat. As far as I know it bends, it twists and if it is stressed (like would be the case in the Towers) I could see it tearing.

I can see steel bending and breaking with the appropriate amount of heat or damage. However, the damage inflicted upon that structure was not enough to totally compromise those beams in my opinion and the resulting fire was nowhere near hot enough to cause them to fail. If the beams that had been hit the hardest (at the point of impact) were damaged that severely, that side of the building could easily fail, but I have a tough time believing that would be a symmetrical collapse which began centrally in the structure and demolished the building so cleanly.

Why was there evidence of thermite on the scene and why did eye witnesses hear explosions?

Secrets are hard to keep, each time a lie is told more must be told to cover for the first one and usually that’s when the best laid of plans starts to fall apart. The more people that are involved the less likely the secret is to be kept. In order for these theories to be true it would require that hundreds if not thousands of people to keep quiet. Demolition teams, explosives dealers, maintenance workers, politicians, pilots, air traffic controllers, families of passengers and the list goes on.

Scary, isn't it?

Every time the government takes control of a part of your life you have less reason to oppose their will.

On the contrary, I have more. I have been getting more and more angry with the freedoms that are being taken away. I wonder where it may lead me someday.

[whyzee]

Not getting into a pissing match here but 9/11...c'mon.
i have seen just as many documentaries as to why the buildings collapsed.
Building 7 is definitely worth looking into...that is very interesting as to why it fell so cleanly.
As far as cleaning up the " crime scene " so quicly.I do believe we were still looking for survivors as hopeless as it was...even one pulled from the carnag e would have made it worth it. It was pretty freaking obvious that 2 planes flown into the towers was the cause of the wreckage...no need for an investigation there.

[fabiodriven]

Building 7 is definitely worth looking into...that is very interesting as to why it fell so cleanly.

So your curiosity about Building 7 doesn't arouse any suspicions about the other things happened that day? Maybe just building was demolished but the other buildings really fell?

As far as cleaning up the " crime scene " so quicly.I do believe we were still looking for survivors as hopeless as it was...even one pulled from the carnag e would have made it worth it. It was pretty freaking obvious that 2 planes flown into the towers was the cause of the wreckage...no need for an investigation there.

Removing the wreckage from the site is fine. Immediately dispersing it all over the globe is not typical.

There have been plenty of crime scenes reconstructed off site. I'm not saying they could have re-assembled either the planes or the buildings, but everything was shuttled right out.

"No need for an investigation" is exactly what they want you to say. If you pay attention, there are far too many questions that go unanswered.

[whyzee]

Giuliani not being rushed into his "safe house " is no surprise .. Would you want to be rushed into that building while the Twin towers were burning out of control right next store?

[fabiodriven]

I'm not here to convince you. I do get enthusiastic, but you believe whatever you want.

[whyzee]

I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.
I am open minded...and that building 7 has really got my attention!

[atc007]

Not getting into a pissing match here but 9/11...c'mon.
i have seen just as many documentaries as to why the buildings collapsed.
Building 7 is definitely worth looking into...that is very interesting as to why it fell so cleanly.
As far as cleaning up the " crime scene " so quicly.I do believe we were still looking for survivors as hopeless as it was...even one pulled from the carnag e would have made it worth it. It was pretty freaking obvious that 2 planes flown into the towers was the cause of the wreckage...no need for an investigation there.

The planes flown into the buildings were military planes, There are explosions IN the buildings,BEFORE the planes hit.That's clearly covered in the movies. Don't just watch the clips folks!! Watch the ENTIRE movies,then believe what you wish! The detonations,,I'm sorry,,explosions ,were heard in the buildings,WHILE the recues were going on. Witnesses?? The NYFD. Among 100's of others. They know what they saw and heard.

[El Camexican]

On the contrary, I have more. I have been getting more and more angry with the freedoms that are being taken away. I wonder where it may lead me someday.

My apologies for that. I should have said “most people” as most people are sheep and sheep, no matter how many there are in a herd will take orders from a dog or two. I gravitate towards what I suspect is your belief that the government should just frickoff and stay out of our lives to every extent possible. That said, take a family of two kids getting a free education and school lunch, two parents on welfare and food stamps and grandparents of the same status and tell me who is going to ever stand up and demands that Big Brother back off? Every one of them will vote for whoever offers to keep them warm and safe regardless of what it costs them in liberties. As far as where
your beliefs lead you, please don’t strip a thread and do something stupid. We can still vote, use that as your means of expression (and of course this site)

[Scootertrash]

El,
I think Ben Franklin covered what you just said a long time ago:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

[El Camexican]

El,
I think Ben Franklin covered what you just said a long time ago:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

Hence my admiration of America’s forefathers and what they left you (and my disgust at what is happening to their genius). They knew exactly what would happen if the government got too big, or disarmed its citizens. Now take Canada which was basically handed the British constitution and walked away from because neither the Brits or the French had enough dry powder left to determine who owned it, so they signed half-baked treaties both with each other and the natives and left the finer details that your founders so carefully thought out for future generations (and lawyers) to squabble over. In essence they left us a huge mess. As potent as it’s economy is at this moment, in time it’s social systems will eventually drag it into the ground like ticks on a fox as its mentaly and financialy subdued citizens watch in despair. Anyway, this thread is about government cover-ups, so ignore my rant and carry on please.

PS. Great to see so many people participating in this thread regardless of their beliefs and amazingly with no name calling or insults.

[El Camexican]

http://news.yahoo.com/officials-fire...123106653.html

This just in

[whyzee]

Ok, had a tiny bit of time to do some reading/ thinking today.
After the attack on the WTC in 1993 , it could very well be possible that the Twin towers as well as surrounding buildings and targets were prepped for an emergency controlled demolition to prevent further collateral damage by having the buildings attacked by others and having them tip over uncontrollably and cause massive massive destruction.
I can believe this theory 100%. Do I believe we attacked ourselves for war purposes etc...absolutely not. I think you guys are being a little to paranoid.
Again...just a theory...

Do I believe we shot down flight 93 to prevent a further attack. Absolutely 100%. I knew the second they said the plane went down in a field with nothing around. I think said to my wife before it happened as we were watching the television that we were going to shoot it down.

[Billy Golightly]

Ok, had a tiny bit of time to do some reading/ thinking today.
After the attack on the WTC in 1993 , it could very well be possible that the Twin towers as well as surrounding buildings and targets were prepped for an emergency controlled demolition to prevent further collateral damage by having the buildings attacked by others and having them tip over uncontrollably and cause massive massive destruction.
I can believe this theory 100%. Do I believe we attacked ourselves for war purposes etc...absolutely not. I think you guys are being a little to paranoid.
Again...just a theory...

Thats the only explanation I've ever heard for the "demolition" theory that actually has a tiny bit of logic to it. I could believe that.