It's going to be a bumpy ride America

[redsox]

Explained....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT9-jLESHA8

Double not, its interesting to me how this video is cut. Also, how many time he says "i don't know." Also, despite the 8 minutes of resume we get from Major General Stubblebine, we get no such resume from his bride, who's theory he has taken up cause for. It seems Mrs. Stubblebine wears the pants in the family. Also, no mention of his retirement date, or his basis of knowledge or access to relevant crucial information other than google BS.

john, you've posted over 20 videos in this thread alone. More homework for me, without answers to even the first of my questions. I can't watch the videos any faster than they will play, and, while i'm watching them, you post more. More homework. When a "debunked" video gets posted, you say, "no science" and move on. I'll keep watching while I wait for your answers. I seem to remember a time when Barnett was chastised for constant google cut and paste.

[redsox]

I want to take a second here, as we get very deep in the weeds on 9/11, to mention that my deeper point and purpose for discussing this at all is that all hypothesis proponents seem to follow the same narrative no matter the subject matter. Its like a playbook of illusion. Its a supplanting of reality with sordid mystery that only they and their ilk can understand, thus giving them a manner of control over a situation that is otherwise unpalatable.

[fabiodriven]

Double not, its interesting to me how this video is cut. Also, how many time he says "i don't know." Also, despite the 8 minutes of resume we get from Major General Stubblebine, we get no such resume from his bride, who's theory he has taken up cause for. It seems Mrs. Stubblebine wears the pants in the family. Also, no mention of his retirement date, or his basis of knowledge or access to relevant crucial information other than google BS.

john, you've posted over 20 videos in this thread alone. More homework for me, without answers to even the first of my questions. I can't watch the videos any faster than they will play, and, while i'm watching them, you post more. More homework. When a "debunked" video gets posted, you say, "no science" and move on. I'll keep watching while I wait for your answers. I seem to remember a time when Barnett was chastised for constant google cut and paste.

Dan I'm going to double check but if memory serves me, since this conversation has started in the Vegas thread I have posted three videos. I have had to post the same one multiple times because it keeps getting brought up, asked about, or overlooked. Forget about Barry Jennings for the moment and you're right, that video is open to interpretation. BKM's video had no science involved and a lot of computer animation. Computer animation can be a blessing and a curse. It can be great for helping in other instances, however it needs to be remembered that when physics is involved, there is no replacement for real world experiments. I would put money on what's supposed to be an airliner in BKM's video not being an airliner at all. It just looks far too small to me, but as I said, that's very poor quality video and I'm not perfect. Just doesn't look big enough to be a 767 to me.

Dan, please. You are repeating yourself over and over again, "homework, homework, homework", but you ignore my replies to that. Are you going to consult me when you need a house built or an engineer? Are you going to go to a CSI lab to solve a murder or would you ask me? What I am doing, for the umpteenth time, is showing you experts, people who know what they are talking about, and if you get past your fears and take the plunge, you too can view what not one, NOT ONE person has come back and disproven or dismissed. Therein lies your opportunity. You can be the one to point out to me that this is wrong, that your version (which defies the laws of physics) of what happened on 9/11 is right.

No bullshit, not defending Damon in any manner, shape, or form, but he is full of rage because he knows what happened. Bill is mad as well. I am hiding my anger. It is unpatriotic in my view as a United States veteran who has and would again put his life on the line for this country that people such as yourself would go along with such an unrealistic farce, it is an insult to me personally. It is to the point that people with our view keep our mouths shut for the sake of preserving friendships, but my patience wears very thin with the stupid American public. I always looked at you as a friend, never looked at your occupation, but in this conversation full of your filibustering I see where you come from. You are one of them. I will be a patriot, and you can pretend this happy little place is good for you to raise another servant. Whether you appreciate it or not, I will fight for what is right, and I'm not doing it for you. I'm doing it because that is what is honest and what is right, and more and more people see that every day.

Once again, there are a slew of architects, engineers, widows, firefighters, US military personnel, demolition experts, and physicists who are all asking very nicely for your audience. No more filibustering and we can ask other questions later (one at a time), but you must see this or I'll ask that you cease posting in my thread. I'm really sick of your attempts to distract and derail, and I've had enough of your filibustering. I know that's what you've been taught but it doesn't work on me buddy, and I'm sick of the attempts. I'm not a suspect, I am part of the solution. You'll either become part of it as well or you will be in my way.

Please, put your fears behind you- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddz2mw2vaEg&t=1100s

[redsox]

Damon has contributed nothing. If he's angry, thats on him. He should be able to act like an adult and debate, as you have. If dissenting views are not welcome in your thread John, then its just propaganda. And I notice in your last post that when your facts get scrutinized, you go to the personal stuff. It makes sense. Defend on all fronts. Like I said at the outset, you're my friend and nothing said on here will change that. I hope you feel the same. I'm telling you how i feel about this subject, no punches pulled, because I respect you and I think you can handle it. I'm not trying to sway you. I know I won't. I'm just debating.

I'll admit, i'm unsure of the order of importance in which you rank the videos. Please clarify so we are not talking about two different things. Should i watch the one above first? I have a few hours down time right now. Which would you suggest i watch or re-watch?

[fabiodriven]

The one last posted above that I've been asking you to watch over and over again.

[sledcrazyinCT]

If the people of Iraq one day say "Let's invade America for (whatever) reason", and they were capable, and subsequently landed on our shores, how would you react? If Iraqi tanks were rolling up your road, would you go out and shake their hands? Or welcome them with open arms? Let us not forget, we were in Iraq for weapons of mass destruction, were we not? What happened with those? If that was our reason for being there and they turned out not to exist, then why did we not turn around and go home?

IMO the fact that Iraq had weeks to stash their weapons in other Middle Eastern countries is the fault of UN being spineless, being required to provide advance notice of their 'inspections'
I do recall watching on television truck convoys leaving Baghdad. What exactly was being transported across the border? Saddam wasn't just moving empty trucks into Syria, but exactly what was in the truck beds is not known with certainty if WMD or not. People who can claim with certainty what was moved out of Iraq do not know 100% for sure what was shipped out because no inspectors were allowed to check as it was taking place.

I might even suggest that those chemical weapons used earlier this year by Syrian govt was Saddam hid given the three weeks heads up by U.N. inspectors before they went into Iraq

[atc007]

Dan, what happened to tower #7 WTC ? How is it that a pull that would take the best demolition teams on earth over a year to prepare ,happened in under 3 hours? Yet on 9/11 5:20 ish PM, live, I and the world watched as the owner said they were going to "pull" tower 7. And please,,,do not even try and direst me to the NIST report that the government did !!! Fire ... " A NEW and unheard of kind of fire " !! From papers and desks What happened to tower 7 Dan? Fabs and I will be quacks forever. That is ZERO problem to either one of us. We own it. I want to hear from you what happened to 7?

[redsox]

OK,,, here goes. I've done my homework. I watched the video,, twice. Once with a completely open mind, not at all critical, and once with a critical eye. Let me start by saying that I can see now why you were espousing this video over the others. Its of better quality, it has better science, and generally makes its points in a far better and more serious way than the match stick and tile guy. It brings up good questions about building 7. Building 7, building 7, building 7. The last great hope of the Hypothesis Proponents. But lets not jump ahead. Lets start at the beginning. Less than a minute and a half into the video there is mention of false imprisonment of American Citizens without legal representation or probable cause based on policy such as the Patriot Act. Yet no evidence is given to support this statement. It is a statement that I disagree with, and they chose to open the film with it. I found that curious. Its what I would call a "tone setter." Just a little nugget to get the viewer thinking the "right" way. Its not really on topic, but i felt it worthy of mention. Immediately, the movie opens and its clear that its not an objective look at facts. Rather, the film is a proponent of an established theory from the very beginning. That is fine, and it doesn't in any way discount any of the science presented within the film. Its a biased presentation rather than an exploration of science. That said, lets move forward. Now, within this thread John, you have stated that "10,000 scientists agree" and you site their credentials. All worthy, learned people. Engineers and scientists and experts of every kind. Fine. Except its deceptive speak. In fact, 10,000 scientists do not agree. In reality 10,000 scientists signed a petition for further study and research. Taking the leap that they agree on any outcome of any research is disingenuous and erroneous. But that is what the viewer is lead to believe. That everyone that was curious about the subject about how the towers fell are all in lock step with the film makers theory. In the films own words (9:26 mark) "this is not science, its trying to prove preconceived ideas."

Now, I won't continue a minute by minute nit-pick of the film. I'll lose you all, and you'll disregard the rest of what I type. Also, I'll admit, that i cannot. The film raises interest. The building 7 stuff especially. But, please keep engaged as i point out the fatal flaws in the film, as i feel they highlight my main point of Hypothesis Proponents seeing an Indian behind every tree. The film is itself a contradiction. It starts out by building evidence of explosions. Eye witness accounts, testimony from demolition experts, video, the whole 9 yards, all neatly wound up and packaged to show you that the Government, not "someone" or "something", but THE GOVERNMENT exploded those fvckers to smithereens. It repeats and repeats about the buildings falling in their own footprints. Hammering this home as if its an indictment in and of itself. The 24 minute mark, "numerous explosions" "waves of explosions." Then, almost as if its betraying itself, the film reverses itself. Thermite! Thermite! I'm sure it was Thermite! (31:53 mark) Tom Sullivan, explosives technician and mustache expert explains to the non-believers that Thermite was used. The film goes all-in on this. Thermite in the debris. Thermite, Thermite, Thermite. Its like two different people made the film, not knowing what the other was pitching. Thermite, you see, as Tommy S points out, does not explode. Its an incendiary. A reaction, not an explosion. So, are the people in the beginning of the movie liars? is their expertise to be questioned? How about the 26 minute mark? Good old Jody Gibbs, an architect of 35 years, explains gravity to us, and then tells us how "large, multi-ton beams were hurled hundreds of yards laterally." Well Jody, which is it? Did the building fall in its own footprint, or did it blow apart? You can't have it both ways. You can't. Now, you've probably had enough of my critique. I would bet that you tune out. But, i'll continue. If you look behind many of these experts, at the rooms that they are in and the books that they surround themselves with, you begin to see an agenda. (34:45 mark) The speaker has the Al Franken book, "Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them." I own that book. I read that book. Calling it a piece of dogshite would be an insult to my dog. I bought that book awhile back in an attempt to analyze my own thinking. Get a different perspective. Its a Michael Moore style anti-bush stylized hit piece that lacks any backbone or substance. But, lets not get sidetracked. The movie should take its own advise. Advie given by Leslie Youn, high-rise architect and firefighter, who says "lets look at this objectively, lets look at the evidence, not these fabricated computer models, hearsay, and all these pre-determined conclusions." Anyone who believe that this film didn't have a predetermined conclusion is not watching the same movie. in fact, the real GIANT PRE-DETERMINED LEAP the movie makes comes at about the 44 minute mark. Dr. Hopper equates "these truths" with accepting Government involvement. Does this movie anywhere lend any credence to any government involvement? Did i miss it? Twice? Lets say, for arguments sake, (and arguments sake only) that everything in the film is solid gold irrefutable fact. Where does it say that the Government did it? You see, thats the audience. the film doesnt need to say it. Everyone watching is already determined that the Government is the culprit. The Government and "them". You know "them." The "they" that are out there with "them." Responsible for all the ills of the world. "They", who control us, and are to blame for everything bad. Mickey would call "them" the devil or satan. Others call "them" the Government. Still others refer to "them" as the Illuminati, or the free masons, or the NWO. Ironically, the film touches on cognitive dissonance. Which, incidentally, is what I was accusing the Hypothesis Theory crowd of earlier. Supplanting reality for a palatable, controllable alternate reality. I agree with Robert Griffin, who says at the 53:10 mark that "not pursuing the truth about 9/11 disrespects the value of the people who died." Thats why i'm debating this. Thats why i stand where I stand.

Oh ya, Building 7 = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbPpK-oWdYc

[atc007]

I guess it would be true that truthers have nothing to hold onto except building 7 had it not been for..


There was no plane,or people in Shenksville PA. There was a hole in the dirt with zero parts of anything...EXCEPT! 3 paid actors saying they saw a plane free falling tail first upside down and A red bandana and passport from one of the hi jackers!

Dick Cheney had 99% of strike aircraft assigned to Canada/Alaska/and grounded for "war games" on the AM of 911.

Dick Cheney had ALL,,not some. ALL of the defense systems turned off at the pentagon the AM of 911.

When asked to turn them back on when a plane was headed into DC. Over an hour after the 1st plane went into the towers. Cheney said .. NO ! The only camera left on caught a missile coming in, that has now been doctored very poorly to resemble a plane. The only part actually pictured at the bomb hole,,I mean airliner entry hole,,was the engine of a missile.was a part from a missile.

The planted engine in the street of NYC was from a different maker than UA uses. Pratt Whiteny VS GE. Paramount to us looking in and seeing a 84 Tecate engine in the street after the Gvt tells us it was a 87 Big Red.

All radar,,,,/military and civilian was littered with fake bogies all over their screens from Cheneys war games the AM of 911. Making it virtually impossible for all seasoned veterans in ATC to try and track anything.


Dick Cheneys one company Haliburton has made a trillion Dollars since 911. That is Trillions with a T. Stop and gander at that fact for a while.

Martin Bush's demolition company working inside the WTC buildings 26 months prior,and up to the day of 911. Complete floors shut off to access months at a time
Thermite spewing melting LAVA out the sides of BOTH trade towers long after the aircraft went in. The jet fuel was burnt upon explosion.Jet fuel burns black. Any fires were smoldering,not infernos.

Explosions,in the elevator shafts,and at ground levels. All recorded multiple times.

1600 degree pools of burning lava, 6 weeks after 911, 5 stories underground. Buried in the rubble,underground. Why?? Because thermite makes it's own O2. Because the elevator shafts needed to be severed to drop these beasts.

The countless firefighters and policemen telling their first hand accounts of the buildings being demolished. "pulled", prepared demolitions.

If you truly believe these buildings got so hot they melted....!!!! LMAO,,,sorry,,,,, How did again,,, a red bandana and passport get found in the rubble? Rubble I might add,that burnt the boots off workers DAILY from the heat. Everyone there went through at least one pair of boots a day from the thermite burning,,I mean,,,heat. Or was that the concrete and papers burning to produce that heat? Remember and watch,, the jet fuel was burnt in the initial impact explosions and within a couple minutes after at the very most.


If all 3 WTC trade towers fell over because they melted.....LMAO,,,,Sorry again,,I apologize,,,, Then how, with the exact same fire and aircraft that hit the pentagon,,,LMAO,,sorry,,,.. Why were there white ,unburnt papers surrounding the hole at the penatgon? Books,papers,desks,chairs,,curtains,,untouched by fire,not disrupted at all,not hardly even dusty??


I don't have all night,and frankly. The last 2 days have been by far my worst 2 on this forum in all my time here. Knappy and you break my heart. I completely fail to understand how any human being can WATCH... not SAY they watched,,and it was reputed!!!!...No,,,. Actually WATCH,,all the evidence, and sail right on ahead with their lives dismissing what their brain has seen. Yes,it is scary. Your brain knows what happened,so embrace it and live your life accordingly.


How did 7 pancake in on itself ? Why were there explosions before it fell? Why were multiple reporters reporting it had collapsed while it was still standing in the background? Many reporters,up to 15 minutes prior. Why were the other reporters reporting it was going to collapse? Why did the OWNER of the building say live on tv after 5pm that they were going to "pull building 7 " Pull, being what demolition crews call the demo of a building..Why did that same owner, the month prior ,up his insurance on the WTC towers by 800% and change his policy to say insured for terrorist attacks by jetliners?

What was in WTC 7 that was so important..??!!! Well, anyone that cares can find that out too.



So, I ask again. Please. Since it is after all,,,,,,the only thing that we that are awake, have........ How did the 47 story tall WTC 7 building fall down?................ I read everything you wrote above. I saw a ton of distraction and deflection . I did however miss how building 7 fell down. Should be a simple answer because after all... Fab and I are batsh!t crazy folk.

[fabiodriven]

I'm very disappointed as well. It's OK though, I'm used to it. I'd like to just concern myself with, well, myself, and I go through spurts where I do that. I'd love to just stop caring and I'm going to attempt to do so again. We are in deep trouble.

[atc007]

Everythings ok,,,I did not just see that......Everythings ok,,,everythings ok,,,,NO, don't show me truth! It can't be,,it just can't be !! They would never do that ! ,,,But then,,,,where DID all the people on those flights REALLY GO?? NO,, it can't be,,,everythings ok,,...........On with my life..... Boggles my mind

[redsox]

Did they explode, or melt? Was it explosives, or Thermite? Was it for money, oil, power, insurance? Or was it the jews slamming the arabs good? Or, was it whatever you want it to be? I spent some time on that yesterday. There are no answers from 007. No answers from John. You just want to continue controlling the dialogue with half truths and "mysterious circumstances." Pick any single issue I brought up and discuss it. Any one. But you won't. Its back to calls of blindness and sheep.

[fabiodriven]

No you are no longer blind Dan, still a sheep, yes. I know what you saw, and I know you're not stupid. If someone doesn't have the capacity to grasp it that's one thing, but you're worse. You're a liar. You are lying to yourself and in turn the rest of us, but you're used to that. You lie for a living. We can all see who you are now. We are not stupid, and and when you lie to us and truly expect us to believe it, you insult our intelligence, and you're insulting our intelligence in a public forum where others can be influenced to play along with your lie, which in my eyes makes you part of the problem as well as an accomplice. Keep telling yourself you're the good guy and life is OK, nothing to see here.

I can pick your post apart with ease and answer your questions one by one as I've been doing from the beginning, but you're a lost cause. Red tape, distractions, delays, subject changes, filibustering, all wrapped in the end with a little bow and lies. Sound familiar? That's our government and how they operate.

That's also you and how you operate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[redsox]

Insult away John. Insults are not responses. Let your ideas and theories overcome the criticism. You see my friend, that is the nature of science. It must stand up to scrutiny.

[El Camexican]

I wish the hundreds of people alleged to have been on those flights would be found

I wish the people that remotely flew the planes and fired the missil would speak out

I wish the guys that setup the chemicals and explosives to bring the buildings down would talk

I wish building 7 could be explained

Too many questions, not enough answers

I hope both sides of this will keep their minds open until all the questions are answered