Trouble 85 atc 110

[Pinebarrensbrew]

Hey all. Hate asking for help this early in my post life butttt. My 85 110 won't start. Lol. We have fuel into the carb and spark. Spray ether into carb it kites and backfires out of the air intake. Nothing but a baby fart at best coming from exhaust pipe when motors pulled. Also when plug is pulled out can't smell fuel on it. I think it's timing and my buddy kinda agrees but neither of us have ever tried anything on this kind of motor. Just smelled exhaust pipe and no fuel either. And ideas of what it could be or Mabey a talk through with the ttiming. Hell even a manual upload. I'm not looking for anyone to hold my hand like some other posts I've read with ppl asking for help. Lol. Just a nudge in a direction. Thanks. -Erik-

[trike savior]

lil more info would help. when was last time ridden, has it sat. does it feel like it has compression. if you think timing is off remove cdi cover and check mounting plate for pickip coil. if it looked like it has moved thats your problem. remove pull starter and remove nut holding flywheel on crank. should be able to see keyway of crank and flywheel and should line up. if not the keyway broke. if thats good remove cdi and cover that holds it so you can see cam timing gear. check timing by lining up flywheel with marks and see if cam lines up. if timing chain slack has not been adjusted it can jump teeth but it can often bend valves and stuff. make sure your rockers have proper freeplay against valves. post what ya find. ill keep trying to help

[barnett468]

Hello

Trike savior has the timing issue pretty much nailed and this area is the most likely cause of your problem but it could also simply be in the valves, see below. Also make sure the timing chain is tight. A slightly loose chain will not cause the problem but it will need to be addressed at some point.

NO FUEL ON PLUG – You will clearly see fuel on the plug if the system is providing it. Quit smellin it.

A few causes of no fuel are

a. bent valves

b. air leak at the intake boot somewhere.

c. tight intake valve

d. old burnt valves, since it is popping back through the intake your intake valve may be either burnt, adjusted too tight or bent etc.


Heres a 78 manual ill look for the 85.

http://www.kb0nly.info/ATC/index.php?dir=ATC90%2F

Heres an 81

http://www.kb0nly.info/ATC/index.php?dir=ATC90%2F




Heres an 85, it takes a few minutes to load.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

[Pinebarrensbrew]

Hey thanks guys. I wrote that post on the fly last night as we were working on the bike. I ran the bike Tuesday the 19th. I rode it hard for about an hour and a half with a couple cigarette and coffee breaks thrown in. The Saturday before that my buddy and I were night riding and towards the end of the night the bike started running funny with choke off. So I choked it to get home. Same story Tuesday. I got home. Hosed the bike off in my yard, tried to start it an no luck. Also Monday night I pulled some wiring apart to try to get a light on the bike. At first I thought I shorted somthing out but the fact that I have spark kinda quieted that thought. So all in all the bike sat 2 days we have compression at the intake barely anything from exhaust when pulled. Took the cover off the CFO but didn't really know what to look for. Sadly I promised the old lady we could go to a movie tonight so wrenching is out of the question till tomorrow after work. Thanks again. -Erik-

[barnett468]

HELLO

Also loosen the screw on the bottom your carb float bowl with the gas valve off and drain the bowl gas into a slender glass and see if it has water and/or debris like dirt or rust etc. Always make sure your carb is clean this way when ttracing almost every running problem.

[Pinebarrensbrew]

That was the first thing we did. Main jet was jammed up nasty. We cleaned the carb very well. I think I fouled the timing up trying to start it or running it funky. Well t-minus 15 hours till I'm out of work and working on it. Time for bed I guess. I will upload pics tomorrow of the cdi or whatever it is so Mabey someone can pick out somthing squirrely. Thanks again. Goodnight. -Erik-

[barnett468]

OK Mr ERIK, hmm...So you finally decided to confess, was it your guilty conscience or something else? I will now have to add one more item to my list of possible “no fuel” causes which is PLUGGED JETS, lol. You will now have to suffer further interrogation. Keep in mind the more questions you answer from everyone and in detail the sooner and better someone can pin down your problem. Please try not to ask questions that have already previously been answered. Some people do and it can be frustrating if you know what I mean.

Please read all the posts carefully first. There is a lot of info and questions there already.

1. Why would you say you might have messed up the timing, did you ever have it running? If so when.

2. How do you know the timing was good before? It’s pretty hard to cause a timing problem by trying to start it with old gas and a dirty carb.

3. How old is the gas? Better just dump it maybe. Running your bike on very old gas that can cause valves and piston rings to stick. Also putting new gas in a tank that has ‘tar’ in the bottom of it from previously dried up gas will cause the same problem guaranteed. Cost me a $3000.00 car motor before but it still won’t cause a timing problem.

4. If your carb was gummy the gas had to be at least several years old so the tank and fuel valve should be gummy and probably rusty too. You need to clean then both THOROUGHLY if you haven’t yet.

5. Get a new plug.

6. Did you shoot brake cleaner through the PILOT jet and watch it come out inside the carb throat to make sure it was clean? If not you need to do it.

7. Whether it's a cam timing problem or not if you still have low compressionb you need to check your valves. This can easily be done this was. Remove the plug and rotate the motor untill the piston is up at tdc. Check the valve clearance, if the clearance is tight you have a problem. Set the clearance, if it still does not start then remove the carb, pipe, and plug then put the piston at tdc again. Make sure the valve adjustment hasn't tightened up and then blow compressed air down the plug hole and if you feel any air coming out the exhaust or intake you have stuck or bent valves. If you do not then you have stuck rings or hole in the piston etc.

8. The other rare possibility, see if the cam has gone flat.

PS- I included a link to a manual that shows how the timing marks go this is easier than trying to explain it to you but post any photos you have anyway including possibly the plug etc. Never know what we'll see.

Trikesaviour, I think we should all tell people with ANY running problem to remove gas cap and clean carb and plug first then post back if their problem still persists. Might save a lot of time that way, lol.

[Pinebarrensbrew]

Hey Barnett. Sorry for the choppy information. I rarely have time to sit on a computer I have posted every post on the fly from my iPhone either at work or when I'm wrist deep in the shed. My buddy bought the bike. It didn't run. We took the carb off and cleaned it quickly. The tank had old fuel in it. We emptied it out noticed a little rust. We put everything back together, filled with premium did an oil change and fired the bike. It ran. A week later he was goin to put it on cl so I snagged it up for what he paid. I ran the bike probablly 8-10 times in te two weeks I had it until it finally started acting up. The night of my first post I pulled the carb because I suspected a clogged jet. The main I believe was clogged up I pinned it blew carb cleaner through it made sure I saw fluid coming through all the holes then I blew it out with compressed air. Did the same for the other jets and ports. Once again. I am scrambling to post this at work so I'm sorry if I fouled up again. I will sit at my computer after work. Sorry guys. -Erik-

[trike savior]

well i understand that you may not have fuel getting through carb but if you are spraying ether through it and it still does nothing i do not think fuel is your problem. i think the bike started acting funny because something is wrong in the engine. look at mine and barnetts first posts and start going through the engine. make sure to do a compression test as well. let us know what you find

[Pinebarrensbrew]

hey all its been a few days. i think weve narrowed the problem down to a bent intake valve. there is entirely to much play when on tdc at the compression stroke i believe it is. i am going to order one tomorrow. i also picked up a carb rebuild kit that includes the float valve. andd while waiting for all these goodies to ship to the store i am going to try and clean the fuel tank as good as possible. thanks for the help

[trike savior]

before ordering parts i would take apart the motor and check it out. and make sure you find what caused this. it has to be out of time if it bent the valve. either your timing chain tensioner is not tensioned properly or it is as far as it can go and the timing chain is beyond service limit and needs replaced. either way it has to be loose and it jumped a tooth while riding it. before disassembling take the covers off so you can see cam gear and flywheel and make sure the marks line up, if they dont you are on the right track. if you do not figure out what did this you will put it all back together and it will do it again. let us know what you find

[Pinebarrensbrew]

Ok well It's been a while since I posted last and worked on the bike. I believe we found the culprit of the problem. The screws on the flap of the choke had fallen out and worked their way in thru the carb into the head and found a cozy home right in the intake valve seat. After looking everything over the seat seems unscathed. We're puttin the bike back together tomorrow. And yes we checked the timing chain and the tensioner and all other internals we could think of and the bikes compression strokes and compression itself is back to normal. Will update tomorrow after the initial fire up try. Thanks for the help all. - Erik -

[barnett468]

You should spray carb cleaner down the intake. if it weeps out around the intake valve at all it has a leak still and must be "lapped" on first. spray cleaner down ex also.

Do it RIGHT the first time and you will only do it ONCE.

Glad you found the problem. below is a copy of my first post just for fun.



NO FUEL ON PLUG – You will clearly see fuel on the plug if the system is providing it. Quit smellin it.
Hello

a few causes of no fuel are

a. bent valves

b. air leak at the intake boot somewhere.

c. tight intake valve

d. old burnt valves, since it is popping back through the intake your intake valve may be either burnt, adjusted too tight or bent etc.