Help! I'm clueless.

[dougspcs]

Ok @dougspcs Yes... I wanted it. He posted on a sunday so i couldn't get money and trailer and get 2 hours out there and look at it so I told him I would go to look at it the following weekend. Sold the next day. I wasn't very happy. I saw it and double taked. Almost jumped out of my chair.

I hear you Gunter..I've seen a ton of machines on CL like that and missed them too.

The last one I got was on a Sunday morning at 7:30am..it had posted an hour before. I called the guy, put on some pants and jumped in my truck..Brought home a really nice 87 250SX for $800..luck was with me that day.

Anyway good luck with your TriZ, it's not my area or I'd help..and keep on the hunt!

[dougspcs]

Barnett, I've tried in a polite way to suggest you are becoming a major .. you've been here 3 months and have 700 post count. You post massive volumes of generalized data at almost every post.

You are often right, but only because you enter the firing range and spray the place with bullets..of course you are going to hit the target, but the poor reader can't find the bullseye for all the bull#@$.

If you really want to be helpful, get off the range and let the guys with actual working experience on the particular machine have a chance at answering? Often there is a single answer to the experienced eye and no need to 'lay out the whole textbook.'

But most of them are passing over the thread because you've already 'shot up the place'... the person asking the question never gets the benefit of their experience.

Hopefully you can take this for the constructive critism it's intended..

[ngunter2]

I thank Barnett for all the information. I actually really wanted all of it. I am still learning on all engines. The farthest I have gone is rebuilding the carb But Yes as dougspcs said deciphering the information was somewhat hard because of the mass. I learned a lot but it was somewhat hard to get to what i was wanting to know. But after a couple of post back and forth and I think I irritated him but I think we figured it out. Again I thank everyone for their help and time.

[ngunter2]

And nice sx doug.

[ngunter2]

Well the reeds were fine. The needle and seat was fine. And the spark is fine. Last on my list is the timing. I tried running it after my check list and it still is the same. No idle. I took it for a spin and it runs fine. Just wont idle and has the same symptoms. I need to learn how to check the timing. Are there any threads on here that can help?

[barnett468]

Well the reeds were fine. The needle and seat was fine. And the spark is fine. Last on my list is the timing. I tried running it after my check list and it still is the same. No idle. I took it for a spin and it runs fine. Just wont idle and has the same symptoms. I need to learn how to check the timing. Are there any threads on here that can help?

Hello Rgunter2


The following are my personal suggestions and opinions only others may have different and/or better ones.


“I thank Barnett for all the information. I actually really wanted all of it.”

xxxxx

No choke but This only happens when I keep the gas off. It runs fine and actually idles until i turn the gas on...

Does this statement still apply, if not did you change anything to eliminate this condition and if so what was it?
Did you actually ride it with the gas turned off?

xxxxx

Well the reeds were fine.


One down

Xxxxx

The needle and seat was fine.


There’s another test for this, see test suggestions posted below.

Xxxxx

And the spark is fine.

OK

XXXXX

Last on my list is the timing.


Most likely not the problem based on your description of the problems but won’t hurt to check it.

I posted the link to the OEM manual for you below. Simply click in the blue string and they will automatically load in 1 to 5 minutes.

xxxxx

I tried running it after my check list and it still is the same. No idle. I took it for a spin and it runs fine. Just wont idle and has the same symptoms.


Does the first item listed above still apply or can you now ride it around with the gas on?

a. If you can now ride it with your gas on for some reason your new comments suggest that the problem is in your idle circuit.

b. If you can still only ride it only with the gas off and it recently idled and ran perfectly then it sounds to me that it is a fuel level problem caused by the items previously mentioned ie stuck float [you said it wasn’t], partially or completely sunk float [did you check for that?],

xxxxx

I need to learn how to check the timing. Are there any threads on here that can help?

Most likely not the problem but doesn’t hurt to check it, see the manual links I posted below for you for instructions on how to do this.

XXXXX

What is your idle air screw set at?

Can you get it to idle by turning the screw that raises and lowers the slide up and down? This is the big screw that goes directly into the side if the carb?

CARB SLIDE ADJUSTMENT SCREW SETTING – I did not see a setting for this in the manual so without this info I suggest you back it out until the slide is all the way down then turn it back in 2 ½ turns.

AIR SCREW - I don’t see a setting in the manual for it but I may have missed it, without this info or info from another member I suggest you turn it in until it stops then turn it out 3 ½ turns. Out is leaner in is richer.

If it does not idle and just dies pull plug and see if it is even the least bit wet. If it is not bone dry it is rich however I suggest continuing this test.

Dry plug reinstall, turn air screw in 1 full turn then start. If it dies repeat plug inspection report results

Dry plug, reinstall, turn air screw in 1 full turn then start. If it dies repeat plug inspection.

Dry plug, reinstall, turn air screw in 1 full turn then start. If it dies repeat plug inspection.

If it doesn’t idle then I suggest doing the following.

If plug is always bone dry I think your idle circuit is plugged up, remove carb spray carb cleaner using red nozzle that comes with can directly into the pilot jet and see if it comes out then remove air screw and do the same thing.

If the plug is always wet in the least then I suggest turning the air screw back in to stop then out 3 ½ turns again.

If your carb has a drain screw and hose nipple vent on the very bottom then connect a CLEAR plastic tube around 12” long to the hose nipple. Hold the hose next to the carb with a soft curve at the bottom at the bowl and the top of the hose around 2 “ above the top of the carb. Turn gas on then open drain screw and see where the level of the gas is in the tube. It should be approximately 1/8”-1/4” below the surface of the main carb body where the body meets the float bowl.

If the level is above this surface the carb is overfilling with gas for some reason and most likely causing your problem.

Retighten screw dump gas.

If you do not have a drain vent I suggest removing carb, recheck needle seat, clean idle circuit again as mentioned above then check float level height via instructions in manual link below. If the float level is HIGH [too close to the carb body] then note level and set it to proper level. If level is correct then lower it by approximately around 3/16” [4.5 mm], reassemble, reset air screw to 3 ½ out and try again.

If it idles now then try adjusting air screw then carb slide screw for best setting.


xxxxx


TRI Z 250 TIMING PG 2-7 CARB AND FLOAT LEVEL ADJ PG 3-8

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manual...vicemanual.pdf


Hope at least some of this info helps somehow.

[Xfile]

Hi, something else to consider....I have seen the fuel pump cause issues many times on these, mostly due to a hole or split forming in the fuel pump diaphragm from age and deterioration. The pump will still pump fuel, but the hole or split in the diaphragm will allow non-atomized fuel to be sucked directly into the crank case via the fuel pump vacuum line. To diagnose, simply replace the fuel pump vacuum line with a clear hose (this is the hose that runs from the fuel pump to the right lower side of the cylinder). If you see fuel being sucked threw the line while the engine is running there is your problem, there should be no fuel in that line, it is for a vacuum pulse to operate the fuel pump only. Symptoms of this problem include: machine will not idle/runs poorly,very rich,unusual amounts of exhaust smoke, raw fuel leaking out around the head pipe joint. The rebuild kits for the fuel pump are about $40 for a good mikuni kit. Contrary to popular belief, the external fuel pump on a tri-z is not unreliable. This type of pump has been used on snowmobiles for the last 45 years, its just like any other part in that it needs to be serviced from time to time. Rebuild it and your good for another 20+ years.

[Fink]

good luck dude

[ngunter2]

Hey guys, it was the fuel pump. It was pumping gas towards the crankcase and xfiles symptoms explained mine pretty much. Now for the rebuild kit. Is this what i am looking for?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Gas-Pum...7ec200&vxp=mtr

[weedan01]

Had to rebuild mine and my brothers Tri-Z fuel pumps. One of those parts that are good to rebuild before it goes bad. Always sucks to be stuck in the middle of no where and broke.

[ngunter2]

Ya. It just all of the sudden stopped running for me. Will upload pictures of the diaphragm. And that is the wrong seal kits. I found the right one and it was a way better price than that one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mikuni-Fuel-...c6711e&vxp=mtr

[ngunter2]

[ngunter2]

Fuel pump rebuild did the trick! Runs great! Starts first kick. Thank you all for all of the help!

[barnett468]

Hello


User name correction for my last post from “grunter” to “rgunter2”. My apologies to rgunter2 for this misspelling.


Sorry but I can't "edit" my posts to make corrections because an "edit" button does not exist on my screen as some of you already know.