im trying to troubbleshoot my 1985 honda big red 250es....UPDATE!

[dylanisaacs]

Thanks guys i think ive determind the problem to a dirty strainer in the gas tank but the bike didnt bog out during my early morning trike ride today

[barnett468]

Hello


I am the one that posted on your other forum and suggested you post here. Glad it seems to run ok now. Here's some more info for you.

i am trying to troubleshoot my proble with my 1985 honda big red 250es i drive it for a while then it bogs out randomly and shuts off (like someone flooded it) my friend said it might be the air screw but i think its worse than that, please help me......and if i wait 1-2mins it will fire back up but it might bog while idle and shut off it only recently started doing this any ideas on how to fix this will be much appreciated

How long has it had this problem?

How old is the gas?

How many hours on the spark plug?

Remove plug, what color is the porcelain tip, lit tan dark tan, dry black or moist black and gooey?

Drain float bowl gas into a narrow clear glass via the drain screw bon the very bottom of carb, turn it counter clockwise. What color is the gas? Is there sediment in bottom of glass? Is there a small clear water bubble in bottom of glass?

Sounds like either sediment in tank blocking the fuel filter or a bad CDI unit.

Xxxxx

its had this problem for about a month or two now its always full with fresh gas but i have a rusty gas tank

Ok this sounds like sediment in tank plugging up filter as I mentioned in previous post.

xxxxx

and its a brand new spark plug when i take the plugs out the tips are white after 2 days to a week of use

Ok, your plug means your carb is too lean which can cause damage to motor, suggest increasing main jet by at least 1 size maybe2 sizes.

Does it require choke to start and if so how much ie 1/4, 1/2, full?

What is the air temp when starting?

xxxxx

it fires up fine idles fine but its when i drive for a while it bogs out and shuts off

Same answer as above, tank sediment

xxxxx

there is a big hole in the secondairy strainer

Which strainer are you referring to? You should replace it if it is the short one.

If it is the short one, it is for reserve, so do not use reserve until it is repaired. If you do not use reserve your bike will also not die while riding it.


You can buy nos parts here. This is a fiche to your gas valve.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250es-...0.html#results

xxxxx

my pop has now put a small drop of oil and stabilizer in my gas tank to clean the jets out

This will not clean a plugged or partially plugged jet out, you need to disassemble the carb. The oil will not remove tank rust you must remove tank and use a process. Just the rusty can damage your motor. If you would have done the float bowl gas inspection test I suggested you would see your gas is most likely apple juice color.

xxxxx

Thanks guys i think ive determind the problem to a dirty strainer in the gas tank

EXACTLY how did you make this determination?

xxxxx

the bike didnt bog out during my early morning trike ride today

Did you do something special to prevent the problem?

Did you use the MAIN position of your on your gas valve or did you use RESERVE?

[dylanisaacs]

ok the spark plug is not white sorry about that i keep forgeting new ngk plugs got the white peice on the inside of the bottom and turns out its the new plug

[dylanisaacs]

and the big red 250 CDI unit is a black square small box right? if so i have a spare just dont know how to take it off

[barnett468]

Hello dylanisaacs

ok the spark plug is not white sorry about that i keep forgeting new ngk plugs got the white peice on the inside of the bottom and turns out its the new plug

I have no idea what in the world you are talking about so let’s just answer the questions shall we.

How many hours does the plug have on it approximately?

Remove the plug and by picking a number please tell us EXACTLY what color the pointed white porcelain part is.

1. White

2, Lite tan

3. Dark tan?

4, Dry black?

5. Moist gooey black?

and the big red 250 CDI unit is a black square small box right? if so i have a spare just dont know how to take it off

The PURPOSE of your question is vague to me. Since your bike just ran fine without dying there is no need to take it out. Why would you want to exchange it? Changing it when your bike runs fine is illogical!

[dylanisaacs]

its 4. Dry black

[barnett468]

Hello


You missed 2 other questions in my post #5. I can’t help you if you don’t answer ALL the questions, maybe someone else can guess what’s going on.

its 4. Dry black

If this plug has less than 20 hours on it then your carb is too rich due to larger than stock jets and/or a high float level. I suggest you do the gas level test in the link below.

If the level is incorrect then tell us what it is.

If your bowl does not have a drain remove float bowl and set per manual and tell us what it was.

If the level is correct then your bike might sputter/stumble under hard acceleration from low engine rpm in any gear.

Tell us what stock jetting is while it is apart.

My need a main jet around 2-3 sizes smaller.


Gas level test drawing pg 4-4. Level should be around 1/8” or slightly greater below the bottom of the carb body where it meets the float bowl.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manual...vicemanual.pdf


Do you ride at low engine rpm mostly or high?

How much choke does it need to start 1/4, 1/2 or full?

How cold is the air temp when trying to start?

Does it start easily?

Part of problem may be from running rusty gas, for the third time now, drain an inch or more of gas into a clear glass and tell us what color it is.

1. Clear?

2. Pale yellow?

3. Darker orange like apple juice?

[dylanisaacs]

plug has less than 20 hours i think, i ride at a mix of high and low but mostly low rpms, it needs 1/4 choke to start, it starts with the first kick, its 2. pale yellow with no rust or
sedlemient

[dylanisaacs]

and i need a new reserve filter

[barnett468]

plug has less than 20 hours i think, i ride at a mix of high and low but mostly low rpms, it needs 1/4 choke to start, it starts with the first kick, its 2. pale yellow with no rust or sedlemient

You missed another question. Unfortunately I can’t help you this way, someone else might try.

If it is 60 degrees or below when you are starting it your float level is too high and/or your pilot jet is too rich.

and i need a new reserve filter

NOS OEM RESERVE FILTER ITEM #5 $11 EUROS

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250es-...0.html#results

OR

partzilla.com

[barnett468]

Your gas color tells me it is NOT excessively contaminated by the rust yet and therefore is NOT the cause of ANY of your problems.

[dylanisaacs]

ok thanks and the reason why i didnt answer some questoins is because idk them

[dougspcs]

Thanks guys i think ive determind the problem to a dirty strainer in the gas tank but the bike didnt bog out during my early morning trike ride today

Glad to hear the problem seems to be solved for you..

I tried to read all this but I got a migraine trying to figure out why we had the manual out across the bench if the problem seems resolved??!!

FYI Dylan you could do without the strainers in the petcock if they are damaged if you could find an inline filter..it's not the ideal solution but it will keep the rust sediment from bunging up your carb. And if you find a clear one you'll be able to see visibly when the rust is building up and it's time to replace..

[barnett468]

[QUOTE=barnett468;1225079]Hello dylanisaacs How many hours does the plug have on it approximately?

plug has less than 20 hours i think, needs 1/4 choke to start, it starts with the first kick, its 2

xxxxx

Remove the plug and by picking a number please tell us EXACTLY what color the pointed white porcelain part is.

1. White

2, Lite tan

3. Dark tan?

4, Dry black?

5. Moist gooey black?

its 4. Dry black

xxxxx

and the big red 250 CDI unit is a black square small box right? if so i have a spare just dont know how to take it off

Since your bike just ran fine without dying there is no need to take it out. Why would you want to exchange it?

xxxxx

I tried to read all this but I got a migraine trying to figure out why we had the manual out across the bench if the problem seems resolved??!!

Hello dylanisaacs

In case you were wondering why “we had the manual out across the bench” is because since my determination of the 2 most likely causes of your problem in my original reply to your post in the other forum which led to you checking my suggestion and subsequently FINDING the problem and my suggestion in that same post that you would be better served to post your question here, out of concern I was simply following up on the original questions I asked to insure you did not have any additional problems.

Now that you have replied to them I see that you have a “#4. Dry black plug” AND it sounds like you want to change the CDI even though you say your bike runs fine now.

I don’t know about others but in my experience both these issues suggests that even though you might think your bike is performing adequately I can CLEARLY see that it has some additional issues that I personally think need to be addressed and further questions need to be asked. This opinion is also reinforced by the fact that your plug turned, #4. Dry black” in just 20 hours or less. Who knows, it might have turned black in 30 minutes which would strongly suggest to me at least, that you have either a rich or other condition that is more severe than I first thought.

Excessive fuel [rich condition] can do damage to the piston rings by “washing them out” if the rich condition is severe enough. Although in most cases, for various reasons this is unlikely in the short term it can have a detrimental effect over the long term. Information regarding this condition is readily available at many online locations and opinions vary but the science is proven.

Running too rich can also cause your plug to carbon up which can potentially cause a misfire or complete spark failure. It also causes more gas to be used than necessary so unless one owns an oil field I don’t see the harm in helping to get them better gas mileage.

Many of the less experienced people here are unaware of some if not all of the potential hazards a rich condition can cause so since I am familiar with at least some of them I prefer to try to share that knowledge with people such as yourself instead of withholding it and once people like you have the info you can make a MORE informed decision and determine for yourself what you want to do at that point.

Your CDI comment ALSO really concerned me as I think it might some others.


I don’t know about others but I personally but I like to be thorough and not simply abandon someone when I think there may be additional problems they are unaware of because they did not do some of the tests I suggested or answer ALL the questions.


I see an opportunity to “probably” improve the performance of your bike and “potentially” reduce or eliminate problems related to a “rich” condition, if in fact this what you have.


If you want to address your “#4. dry black” plug condition simply continue to post and either I or another member will help you.


PS - I see Dougspcs suggested an external “inline filter” in lieu of replacing the original one. I think that’s a great suggestion [although he doesn’t need my agreement to justify his suggestion]. The smallest ones are sometimes available at motorcycle shops otherwise just get one with the right fitting size at any auto store.


My best wishes for whatever you decide to do.

[barnett468]

ok thanks and the reason why i didnt answer some questoins is because idk them

Hello dylanisaacs



I appreciate your previous replies but I'm sorry, but I don't understand your comment above and don't understand the acronym "idk".


The reason I requested the air temp in ADDITION to the choke position when starting your bike is because the colder it is the more choke you need and if you are only using 1/4 choke and it easily starts on the first kick as you claim then this in ADDITION to your "#4. dry black plug" STRONGLY suggest in your particular case that your carb is WAY too rich on the pilot AND the main jet.

If you are capable of properly jetting your bike on your own and determining and repairing what ever other potential problems you might have I will apologize for my attempt to help you and won't bother you with any more questions.