Frankenstein atc 200 motor help needed asap!

[hheywire]

I'm new to the site and need some atc related assistance. I've gotta 200 with 185 front forks. Home made frame cause the old one rusted out. Recycling bin
fenders and an engine with problems. My automatic shift clutch wasn't disengaging and when you would shift it would just bang through the gears. I just took the engine apart last night to see if the plates were simply stuck together. I pulled the springs and all that junk out to make sure nothing was holding the clutch plates tight. I separated them all the with a screw driver and something else has got it seized. Can't figure out what is going on in there but to my understanding if there is no pressure on the clutch then I should be able to turn the motor over and have that clutch not turn my driving gears. something just isn't right here.

[barnett468]

Hello hheywire


I’m not positive what you are trying to say.

It sounds like your bike will idle while in gear so your centrifugal clutch is working is this correct? If not then your 1 way bearing might not be releasing and needs replacement.

If your clutch pack is not releasing during shifting which is what it sounds like then it is usually an incorrect adjustment on the clutch. Have you tried adjusting it per manual specs first?

As long as your plates have play with the springs off then the clutch assy should be good.

What exactly do you mean by gears turning etc?

What exactly is seized?

Did you disassemble the clutch and clean it.

With the clutch assembled and bike in neutral you should be able to turn the clutch easily by hand. If not then it is again most likely your 1 way bearing.

[barnett468]

Hello hheywire

See item 14 available for purchase if needed. One way bearing.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc200s-1...7.html#results

[hheywire]

The one way bearing works fine its something up with the clutch basket I took out the springs to relieve the clutch plates as much as possible but I'm still not getting the
separation of the engine to the transmission. With the clutch springs out it should have nothing to make the transmission turn, the clutch should be disengaged and I should be
able to turn the centrifugal clutch by hand and not have my transmission turn the sprocket. Also I'm unable to get the clutch basket out because I can't figure out how to remove the nut on the centrifugal clutch. I don't have a socket that will fit it and I can't get a wrench on it. I put channel locks on it but only got it to turn about an 8th of and inch.
Then it wouldn't go any further.

[barnett468]

Hello

OK got ya,. In cases of emergency I have stuck a wide blade screwdriver between the back of the centrifugal hub gear and clutch basket gear which jams them together while you loosen the nut but you will need the right size socket.

[barnett468]

Hello

You can rent a socket from home depot tool rental dept or a rental yard.

[hheywire]

Ok I'll get the right socket for it, also do I have to worry about breaking the teeth from jamming a screw driver in it? I don't want to damage anything.

[barnett468]

Hello


I've done it many times with no problem but it is neanderthal however i think honda or another recommends using a rag to jam the teeth on some part. Yup, strange but true, read it myself. Since you already turned the nut slightly anyway most of the torque has already been removed.

[hheywire]

another thing is my friend says something about the nut having punches in it to keep it from backing off, I have noticed some dents punch on the front of the nut where it kind of flanges off away from the threads. It's really hard to describe but that's the best I can do. I think I'll try the rag idea first. Also I can see on the nut where someone has tried to
pull it off before. It's kind of chewed up. Might have to take a grinder to it to get a socket on it. I have another question too. My trike doesn't have a serial on it anymore, where do I locate a serial number on the motor?

[barnett468]

Hello hheywire


another thing is my friend says something about the nut having punches in it to keep it from backing off, I have noticed some dents punch on the front of the nut where it kind of flanges off away from the threads. It's really hard to describe but that's the best I can do.

It’s called an “all metal lock nut”. It simply applies light pressure on the threads to keep it from unthreading on the shaft if it comes slightly loose.



I think I'll try the rag idea first.

That’s probably a reasonable idea.



My trike doesn't have a serial on it anymore,

If you strip the paint off the steering head and rub some pool acid on it [muriatic acid] a few times it might show up in a few minutes. It might be different than the engine number if the engine was changed.


where do I locate a serial number on the motor?

Others will know but I think it is on the top of the motor near the rear and close to the side.

[dougspcs]

Wrong oil can cause this symptom..since the oil we should be using has friction modifiers in it to accommodate the wet clutches..

Some will argue this, maybe the PO changed the oil and used $99/quart crap oil .

I bought a 250ES that did this..discs were sticking together not letting the engine free-wheel during the shifts..BANG!

I changed the oil to Honda GN4, checked the clutch adjustment as per the manual and after about 15 minutes of riding the problem was gone.

Start simple!!

[hheywire]

thanks for the advice. There is another thing though. Is the nut on the clutch left hand thread? turn counter clock wise it tightens. Turn it clock wise it loosens.

[barnett468]

Hello

The nut on clutch basket with the flat plates is std right hand threads.

[hheywire]

Well I just finished working on the motor. Finally figured out the clutch issue. someone had serviced the clutch previous to me owning it and assembled it wrong. there are 2
large washers and both of them were behind the clutch. so when the clutch basket nut is tightened it was squeezing the clutch plates together. it was missing that separation. while i had the engine on the table i took the courtesy of taking the whole thing apart to take care of the oil burning problem. I replaced the piston with a used one from an
extra honda fat cat bottom end i had, since i already replaced the piston in my honda fat cat with an oversize forged piston i had no use for the extra so i put it in the atc 200 motor. i checked the jug for scoring and it was minute. i have a mystery to solve too here. if the stock size of an atc 200 piston is 192 cc and the fat cat piston is a 199cc
then why do they both fit in the jug? i think the previous owner bored it out and put a stock size piston in it. IDIOT!!! the fat cat piston barely fits snugger than the old one
though so it is a bit bigger but not by much. the previous owner must have bored it way large for the fat cat piston to still be a little loose. the old piston in there was way too loose! its no wonder it burned some oil. i'm hoping i fixed the problem though. will be putting the engine it tomorrow. i would have kept going till i finished the job but it would be 6 am by the time i finished. i'm 19 and still have parents that give me a limit to how long i can be working haha. oh btw when i asked about the left hand threads i was talking
about the centrifugal clutch nut, sorry i wasnt more specific. so when i turned it to the left to loosen it i ended up tightening it. i finally got a socket and turned it right and
busted it free.

[barnett468]

Hello hheywire


Glad you found the problem. The messed up centrifugal nut was a bad sign wasn’t it, lol?

FAT CAT VS ATC BORE SIZE – If this is the case it is simply because the fat cat has a longer stroke which displaces more cc’s with the same size bore.

THREAD DIRECTION – Well I did answer your question correctly and clarified exactly what clutch I was referring to so you wouldn’t damage anything, lol.

PISTON/RING REPLACEMENT – You must measure the cylinder for taper and “out of round”. They can look fine but be out of spec. It should be less than .015 taper and out of round or rings will not properly seal and it will have low compression and burn oil. The cylinder should be honed and new rings installed or the will not seal properly and it will have low compression and burn oil.