500 motor hard starts

[barnett468]

Hello JasonB

Ya i actually put a new plug in and kicked it over, 2nd kick it fired right up so i rode it lol.

OK, no tipping of bike necessary, good. Those C5 guys [as you call them] obviously don’t have their bikes set up right or are just unnecessarily going off an old school technique that was rarely used and rarely worked.

How much choke is needed to start?

How cold is it there when you are starting?

If you start with little or no choke and it is around 60 degrees out or less, than providing you float level is correct, your pilot and/or fuel mix screw are off. I would install 1 size smaller pilot then adjust mix screw. You do NOT want your PIG loading up during starting in 80 plus, degree weather, believe me. That ice chest can be a LONG ways back when getting towed through the Dunes, lol.

the line popped off and sprayed me with scalding hot coolant

The water should not typically get scalding hot just riding around if the air temp is over 80 degrees. The hot combustion gasses were probably leaking into the water system thereby overheating the coolant. I would check it with an infrared gun once it is repaired to know what you are dealing with. It may be bored out far enough to promote overheating and/or have too much compression for the size of your radiators. I know others run their “big bore” bikes with these radiators and you can’t easily do anything to install larger ones but it still doesn’t mean there’s nothing you can do to reduce the coolant temp if need be or so desired. Reducing compression is one way to do that.


Just curious was it hot outside when this occurred?

How far is it bored over?

What is the compression?

it was smoking white more than i thought it should but contributed that to excessive oil/gas mix build up in the cases from kicking it so much.

The following is simply “FYI” and something you will hopefully never need to know.

EXHAUST SMOKE COLOR ID.

1. White that dissipates quickly is water in the combustion chamber.

2. Lite blue/gray is burning oil.

3. Very dark gray or black is too much gas and possibly some oil. The black color commonly “hides” any lite gray smoke you might have from burning oil so never assume it is a rich condition only.

I would assume that this major leak would have some effect on starting as well.

Yeah, I’ve always found it difficult to get a gas powered engine to run well on water but I still have hope, lol.






PS - Anyway, glad it it was a simple fix, and hope you enjoy it with no further problems!

[TecateDan]

You know when the decomp is open you can hear it. ALso Mine runs fine at idle with the decomp on

check the decomp thing on the head too... maybe do a compression test... something could be sticking or keeping it open after your first few rides

[TecateDan]

I had to pour out over half a liter of gass from mine after having to pull start it a lot

make sure the crankcase isn't full of fuel....kinda sounds like what your chasing. An engine with a flooded crankcase will fire for a second, but then the fire gets put out from a big gulp of fuel from the bottom end. Ive seen it in sleds DOZENS of times.

[TecateDan]

ONe last thing. Does your gas cap vent?? I had one that didn't and with a full tank it would pull vacuum and die.. This is a wierd one but just throwing it out there. Fuel, compression, and spark. You got spark, you got sompression, I'd strip the carb and rebuild it.

[JasonB]

Thanks for your coments everyone! i can actually breath through the vent line into the gas cap, its healthy lol

and i can hold the decomp open with it running, only done it once but it makes farting noise.

and the coolant was scalding because the motor was breathing into the coolant system lol got a minor burn on my hand from the steam that came out! I will jump back on here and give a more thorough answer to some of your questions but im about to leave work and go play with the bike some more! so stoked it actually seems like it wants to run right now!

[Louis Mielke]

Dude, after looking at the pic of that head your bought and the little bit of back story that came to light on banned500riders, i would be highly suspect of the weld job on that head. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a crack or pin hole that allowing compression pressure into the coolant system

[just ben]

If you do find the decompression to be the culprit find another head and send it to the guy who did mine. I hope it is just the gasket though,Good luck.

[TecateDan]

I was thinking the same thing. There should be NO Way the coolant ever touches the exhaust unless there is a leak

Dude, after looking at the pic of that head your bought and the little bit of back story that came to light on banned500riders, i would be highly suspect of the weld job on that head. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a crack or pin hole that allowing compression pressure into the coolant system

[El Camexican]

i can actually breath through the vent line into the gas cap, its healthy lol

It might seem that way now, but your brain cells are dying!

[JasonB]

Dude, after looking at the pic of that head your bought and the little bit of back story that came to light on banned500riders, i would be highly suspect of the weld job on that head. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a crack or pin hole that allowing compression pressure into the coolant system

ya i have been in touch with Roostius Maximus who did the squish mod and planed the head but Seanmx57 did the decompe install and the more I think about it the more you might be right. I installed the head gasket for the THIRD time friday night. bike ran for another 5 minutes bfore coolant started to pressurize and find a weak spot to overflow from around a clamp. I just want this damn thing to run, I have spent too much time just on the head lol

[Louis Mielke]

ya i have been in touch with Roostius Maximus who did the squish mod and planed the head but Seanmx57 did the decompe install and the more I think about it the more you might be right. I installed the head gasket for the THIRD time friday night. bike ran for another 5 minutes bfore coolant started to pressurize and find a weak spot to overflow from around a clamp. I just want this damn thing to run, I have spent too much time just on the head lol

Did you sell that stock head? Put the stock one back on it, it's not impossible to start without the decomp, just not easy, worst case you can pull start it for the drags. If I was you I'd be trying to put your 310 back togehter as a rider and leave the 500 as drags only. You just don't have the time to straighten out the 500 enough to make it reliable for a daily rider for trikefest.

Really doesn't matter, you're going to cry when you get wooped by a 330 anyway. It's a known fact the 330's are just as fast if not faster than stock 500s, unless the 330 is tuned poorly.

[JasonB]

ya I didnt put the 500 together to be a drag bike, or with the idea that they are the fastest thing around either. I just wanted a bike with more power to it and from just the 10 minutes of combined riding i have done between the three head gasket leaks it feels like what I want. Again i didnt put this bike together as a drag bike, more so an all around rider with solid power Not tryign to be the fastest or I would have built a puma lol

I just reached out to Sean about a refund on the head. Roostius is putting one together for me now and should be able to get it to me in the next week.

[barnett468]

Hello JasonB

I installed the head gasket for the THIRD time friday night.

Are you reusing the same head gasket?

If you are using the same head gasket it is not helping your situation no matter whether you put sealer on it or not. Others do it and get away with it. I have done it also out of necessity but I did not have a leak prior. One can get away with that all day long on a 125 but were talkin about a 500 cc PIG, lol.




Here’s what I would do,


Place some 600 grit sandpaper on a granite counter top when your girlfriend is not home, lol.

Mark the head and cylinder sealing surfaces with a felt pen

Put water or wd40 on paper

Using light force spin head and cylinder on paper 4 rotations. If all the felt pen black is not removed you must surface until it is. You can start with 320 finishing with 600.

Once surface is flat either install a new gasket and try again or proceed to the steps below.



CRACK DYE TEST - If you want to check your head for cracks and/or pinholes as Louis Mielke suggested it might have you can buy the stuff to do it yourself or take it to virtually any quality engine or transmission rebuilding shop and they can do it for you. The fluorescent technique is better at finding small cracks than the non fluorescent method. See video below for crack test info. See video below for general info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npgoU...ture=endscreen



CRACK VISUAL TEST – This is my own modified version of a std automotive engine head leak test I used to do. If you want to visibly see what is going on with your head you can do the following, it may or not may work in your particular case.


Get a 3/4” thick piece of clear lexan, bullet proof is best.

Tape lexan with masking tape 1 layer thick.

Place head on lexan and mark bolt holes

Drill bolt holes

Remove tape

Counter sink holes slightly just enough to deburr them etc.

Bolt head dry with gskt or o ring to lexan using approximately 15 ft lbs torque. More might crack the lexan, this is why bullet proof is better.

Get a compression gauge that has a removable hose and remove it from gauge then install it on head.

Fill chamber with dark colored water

Install safety glasses

Connect compression hose to controlled air source with air off

Hold air hose/comp hose junction above head so water does not flow back into hose

Tip head up so you can see the bottom clearly but do not turn it all the way over.

Open air hose and apply approx 10 psi pressure slowly increasing to 60 stopping whenever it leaks. You should clearly see your leak if you are lucky, lol.

Mark outside of head with felt pen to locate it

Take photo of leak with cell phone.

Get it fixed.

Keep it clean and on topic!!
Howdy

[just ben]

ya i have been in touch with Roostius Maximus who did the squish mod and planed the head but Seanmx57 did the decompe install and the more I think about it the more you might be right. I installed the head gasket for the THIRD time friday night. bike ran for another 5 minutes bfore coolant started to pressurize and find a weak spot to overflow from around a clamp. I just want this damn thing to run, I have spent too much time just on the head lol

hopefully they can get the head right this time. Just curious how much did you put into having it modified?

[JasonB]

I picked it up outright but the guy that did the work actually sold me one that had been repaired from a previous decomp install through the dome. and the repair from that original decomp was botched. Anyways, the head had the squish band modified, was supposedly checked for flatness, and is an 85 head (supposed to be desired for power reasons), and had the decomp valve welded on. I got ripped off and AFTER the partial refund for not disclosing damage from the previous repair I still came out of pocket for everything outright shipped to me 375$. I am working on getting every penny of that back now. The bigger name that does them over on the 500 boards is Adam Millar (roostius maximus) and he doesnt charge near that. anyways, i got ripped off price-wise in the first place and the product was shoddy as hell.