'85 250R top end carnage

[82 250r]

...and forever removed the specter of random detonation related engine failures for racing 2strokes. In short, it was the ultimate game changer in the assured reliability of racing two stroke engines.[/I]

I agree...that's essentially what i posted.
The goal is to " forever removed the specter of random detonation". There's a reason for that...Detonation is bad.

My point is that detonation can be eliminated through modern engine design and tuning techniques...no amount of detonation is acceptable without risk.

Marc

[El Camexican]

unlike some others, i prefer to read and try to understand someones post before making comments about it.

Oh if only that were true...

It has been more than once that I have seen you respond in a belittling manner to a post you didn’t even take the time to comprehend before contradicting, often responding with information totally unrelated to the topic when confronted about it. While I’m at it I should point out that I find it extremely rude when you reply to a post response that you agree with, but add some other detail to make it appear that while the original poster was right (in your option) you were MORE RIGHT because you were aware of some famous guy it happened to and while not necessarily rude, your constant reminders to posters that you were right about something, or that someone posted the same suggestion as you did two weeks earlier reeks of some sort unfulfilled need for acknowledgment. If a poster garnered something useful from your post perhaps they will thank you, if not life goes on, don’t demean yourself by acting like you should be getting a trophy.

I’ve said about all I have to say here, so please do me a favor, when we run into each other in a post please respond directly to the poster’s question, not my response to him and in return I will do the same. Oh, and please don’t PM me to complain about how rude or ill-informed someone is, I’m not interested in having that conversation.

[El Camexican]

I agree...that's essentially what i posted.
The goal is to " forever removed the specter of random detonation". There's a reason for that...Detonation is bad.

My point is that detonation can be eliminated through modern engine design and tuning techniques...no amount of detonation is acceptable without risk.

Marc

Agreed, but this guy has an engine from the mid 80's, so unless he’s getting his combustion chamber reshaped, or running 114 fuel his engine will likely be subject to detonation at some point and would (In my opinion) be better served to have a forged piston in it.

[82 250r]

Agreed, but this guy has an engine from the mid 80's, so unless he’s getting his combustion chamber reshaped, or running 114 fuel his engine will likely be subject to detonation at some point and would (In my opinion) be better served to have a forged piston in it.

I disagree.
Proper engine building in 2013 is not a mystery...even Japanese engineers from the 80's had it figured out.
Can you improve upon that? Yes.
Will you burn a hole in your piston if you don't? No.

The OP does not need to reshape his chamber, run race fuel, or install a forged piston...he needs a bigger main.

I have 2 engines from the mid 80's...they do not detonate...one is bone stock.



Marc

[El Camexican]

I disagree.
Proper engine building in 2013 is not a mystery...even Japanese engineers from the 80's had it figured out.
Can you improve upon that? Yes.
Will you burn a hole in your piston if you don't? No.

The OP does not need to reshape his chamber, run race fuel, or install a forged piston...he needs a bigger main.

I have 2 engines from the mid 80's...they do not detonate...one is bone stock.



Marc

If you are so confident in that statement why don’t you respond to his original question by telling him to buy a cast piston instead of arguing about it with me?

[82 250r]

My friend, I'm not arguing with you...we're on the same team in regards to helping the OP.

IMO, installing a cast or forged piston is not the issue... finding and correcting the source of detonation is.

Marc

[El Camexican]

My friend, I'm not arguing with you...we're on the same team in regards to helping the OP.

IMO, installing a cast or forged piston is not the issue... finding and correcting the source of detonation is.

Marc

That I can agree with. I hope you don't think I am suggesting that this happened because he didn't have a forged piston. All I am saying is that a forged piston is the way I'd go on the rebuild.

[nstyle73]

I think he needed to check his compression ...........but its too late for that.

[barnett468]

Oh if only that were true...

It has been more than once that I have seen you respond in a belittling manner to a post you didn’t even take the time to comprehend before contradicting, often responding with information totally unrelated to the topic when confronted about it. While I’m at it I should point out that I find it extremely rude when you reply to a post response that you agree with, but add some other detail to make it appear that while the original poster was right (in your option) you were MORE RIGHT because you were aware of some famous guy it happened to and while not necessarily rude, your constant reminders to posters that you were right about something, or that someone posted the same suggestion as you did two weeks earlier reeks of some sort unfulfilled need for acknowledgment. If a poster garnered something useful from your post perhaps they will thank you, if not life goes on, don’t demean yourself by acting like you should be getting a trophy.

I’ve said about all I have to say here, so please do me a favor, when we run into each other in a post please respond directly to the poster’s question, not my response to him and in return I will do the same. Oh, and please don’t PM me to complain about how rude or ill-informed someone is, I’m not interested in having that conversation.

My posts here, are in fact, for the benefit of the op, since they had some level of relevance to his problem and selection of piston choice. Just because I might on occasion use your quotes and/or someone else’s, in no way means that I am replying to you or those that I am quoting. It’s assumptive on ones part to think I am imo.


I am interested in only one thing, which is helping an op by posting the most accurate info I personally know of. I would hope that this is everyone’s goal since it is my understanding, as inaccurate as it might be, that this is the primary purpose of this particular forum/section of the site. If I see an obvious inaccuracy in any info, I, like many others here, including YOU, from what I have seen may on occasion correct [or try to correct] an inaccuracy that I, they, or you see. Some members do it on almost a daily basis. Your post quoted above suggests to me that in your eyes I should be prohibited from doing so.


Your quote below which is also from this thread and directed to 82 250r also suggests to me that you are unnecessarily abrasive to others without justification also. It also suggests to me that anyone that argues/debates or otherwise might have a different opinion/viewpoint and/or had a dufferent experience than you in a particular situation or with a particular product that they are wrong.

If you are so confident in that statement why don’t you respond to his original question by telling him to buy a cast piston instead of arguing about it with me?

My posts here, are in fact, for the benefit of the op, since they had some level of relevance to his problem and selection of piston choice. Just because I might on occasion use your quotes and/or someone else’s, in no way means that I am replying to you or those that I am quoting. It’s assumptive on your part to think I am imo.


I am interested in only one thing, which is helping an op by posting the most accurate info I personally know of. I would hope that is everyone’s goal since it is my understanding, as inaccurate as it might be, that this is the primary purpose of this particular forum. If I see an obvious inaccuracy in any info, I, like many others here, including YOU, may on occasion correct an inaccuracy that I, they, or you see. Some members do it on almost a daily basis. Your post suggests to me that I am the only one in your eyes that does this and that at least I should be the prohibited from doing so.


Your post also contained a question, and since it was NOT directed to any particular person, I replied to that question in my next post which also contained additional info relevant to the ops problem. My reply to your question was followed by more questions from you that were aimed directly at me. I simply replied to those questions with the info you requested.


You also “told” me in what I perceived as a moderately abrasive comment, the following:

don't use examples of guys whose bikes weigh next to nothing and are tuned by the world's best

I replied to that comment/demand by posting the info your post suggested to me you wanted, in the quote pasted. Now you appear unhappy that I answered that and the other questions you asked me and also that I complied with your demand.

1. ok, heavier bikes that are likely subjected to far more extreme conditions than his ever will and not tuned by the worlds best.
1. jimmy white, chris white, donnie luce. they all used cast pistons as i already mentioned on jimmys bike in my previous post but none were tuned by the world’s best anything. either they tuned their own after klemm built their engines or they were tuned by team green mechanics who were reasonably knowledgeable but certainly not the world’s best by any stretch of the imagination.

2. OTHER HIGH PERF BIKES WITH CAST PISTONS AND MINIMAL FAILURES - This would be every single tecate ever made including the 4 wheel ones. You see, kawai has a warranty dept that was around 200 feet from all 4 of my work areas and we talked all the time and it was there job to notify me specifically if they had an unusual number of warranties. since they never told me about even 1 single piston or rod failure regarding tecate's they simply did not have enough to consider the amount out of the ordinary.

For some reason you continually challenge my info which includes my suggestion to use flammable brake cleaner to the difference in the amount of kick back between a 450 cc maico and a 1200 cc 4 cylinder street bike and now to pistons etc.. I don’t mind this at all providing it is done in a courteous and respectful manner. My perception is that in most cases when you resoond to something have posted it is frequently done with some level of abrasiveness which I feel is unwarranted. In each of those cases as well as any others I have replied with 0 sarcasm and abrasiveness providing I did was not unnecessarily attacked.


My replies are direct and to the point. I am an engineer as you and many here well know and my experience with engineers in general is that their answers to questions often seem “dry” and might be interpreted by some non engineer type people that are “sensitive”, to sound “snobby” or have a better or smarter than thou attitude.


To hopefully put some people’s minds at ease, this is not my intent, nor any other engineer’s intent. Engineers deal in facts whenever possible and best guesses if necessary based on as much information that they have at a particular time. I, as well as other engineers I know, quickly acknowledge if they make an error in their info and not only readily accept being informed of it and supplied with the correct info but they are also grateful because it is every good engineers desire to have accurate info and they have a passion to learn as much as possible about their particular field etc. It is every engineers fear to make a mistake in their engineering and have a frame crack in half and possibly injure or kill someone. Even in the ATV world engineers have an extremely heavy burden on responsibility especially due to the severe conditions the off road bikes are subjected to. Engineers ask lots and lots and lots of questions.


The steering head snapped clean off both jeff wards and roger decosters bike in races and could have easily resulted in serious injury like what happened to danny chandler who ended up being a paraplegic from what appeared to be just a minor crash as his friends watched on in horror and disbelief.


This was not only an engineering failure but might also have been the failure of the mechanics since this might have developed as a small crack which should have been noticed by the mechanic during their mandatory routine frame inspection before it got put if hand.


There are many people here that know quite a lot about bikes and EVERYONE knows something about some subject that I and others do not. I, in no way, think I know it all. I too have learned from others here.




Unbeknownst to you, I have had productive dialog with one of the mod’s here regarding people that make off topic posts that are directed at me that I perceive as being unwarranted, unprovoked, abrasive and/or disruptive to the site and I will follow that mod’s instructions which is to report them to that particular mod. Therefore since this is how I perceive your post I am going to report it to them. This is not my preference but since I have been instructed to do so and they are the ones that run the site this is what I will do in this case and from here on out.


You may be unaware of this but they recently banned 2 long time members for posts that I think the mod’s perceived as having an unnecessary level of abrasiveness directed towards another. I was also told by a mod, that some members seem to be able to bash at least some of the mod’s and do so with impunity. I do not know for certain but since the recent ban of the 2 members I referred to, I’m only guessing that the level of tolerance for this type of thing has been reduced.




Dear Pismorat and others;

I sincerely apologize for this detour and if you do not feel that my info has benefited you at all or you no longer want me to post on your thread please feel free to tell me so, after all it is your thread, not mine or anyone else’s.


Regards;

Barnett468

Kawasaki project engineer and head of Kawasaki ATV R and D department in the 80’s.

[JasonB]

lol