250R Question

[El Camexican]

Well when I push down on my forks they don't rebound all the way back up. Sometimes ill lift up on the handle bars to get the forks to fully recover. And that's with me not even on the bike.

I just got back from the dunes a last week and as I was loading my bike back in my truck I noticed oil all over both forks.

Properly functioning forks don’t fully extend unless your front wheel is off the ground and even then there is a small spring in each fork that prevents it from fully extending otherwise they would make a loud clunk every time you lifted the front wheel, but in your case the amount of sag you have means nothing because your forks aren’t working properly. If you want help with this and setting up your suspension you need to indicate if these are going to be replaced with inverts or rebuilt.

[Fox250R]

I think id like to just go with the rebuild for now.

[barnett468]

Well when I push down on my forks they don't rebound all the way back up. Sometimes ill lift up on the handle bars to get the forks to fully recover. And that's with me not even on the bike.

this has already been addressed however in addition a general rule of them is that your suspension should compress 1/3rd from fully extended with the rider sitting on the bike. in other words if the bike has 12" of travel with the wheels off the ground it should compress 4" with the rider leaving 8".

Some of those vids are up to 4 or 5 years old When I jump just a foot in the air and land I can hear my front tire rubbing against my fender.. Even does it when i come down from a wheelie. I just got back from the dunes a last week and as I was loading my bike back in my truck I noticed oil all over both forks.

the leak has reduced the oil level in the tubes. if this level is reduced by around 1" it will cause the forks to be slightly "softer". a reduction of 2" will cause them to even softer. This is because the natural air in your forks acts as a spring. the more it is compressed the more spring effect it has and vise versa.

the forks were much stiffer in the video than they are now. the only possible reason for this is because something has changed. if you changed the fork oil you might not have set it as high as it previously was. also if you did not know exact;y what weight the oil was before you changed it then you might have inadvertently put in heavier oil. making what seems like a small change from 7.5 to 10 for example will have a noticeable effect on the firmness of the fork.

I think id like to just go with the rebuild for now.

you have the info to determine if they are in good enough condition to reuse without them leaking so if it is determined that they are, in your case i would simply use original honda seals, 10 weight oil and raise the oil level 3/4" higher than stock. if it is still too soft then go to 15 weight oil. your springs could not have possibly softened enough to be the cause of your problem.

[Dirtcrasher]

Post correction

i would not use heavy oil in fork tubes.

I'm 5'10"s and have 85/86 250R forks with progressives on my 86 350X. I was bottoming the front at Trikefest last year and changed 20wt to 30wt. Do you have another suggestion? Nowhere around here to test them.

Is there a gold valve for those shocks??

[barnett468]

I'm 5'10"s and have 85/86 250R forks with progressives on my 86 350X. I was bottoming the front at Trikefest last year and changed 20wt to 30wt. Do you have another suggestion? Nowhere around here to test them.

Is there a gold valve for those shocks??

hi dirtcrasher, is that a question?

1. a bikes suspension does not care how tall a rider is, it only cares how FAT a rider is...ouch.

2. in general, progressive springs are not ideal for suspensions with around 10" of travel or less but there are exceptions. they typically get too stiff too quickly which causes a harsh ride. i've tested zillions [almost] of springs over the years.

3. the comment of mine you quoted is only a typo correction and is only a portion of a complete sentence albeit maybe not a coherent one. it is not intended to mean that i would not use oil that is heavier than stock in a forks. i have done this many times

if you are asking a question then i would say this.

1. i think the std weight oil in a 250r is either 7.5 weight or atf which is generally 7.5 weight. unless one weighs around 200 million lbs or more it should rarely if ever be necessary to use oil that is thicker than 15 weight or 20 max in a 250r or tecate etc. one of the things that wear in the forks is the seal on the damper rod. the more it wears the worse it seals which allows oil past the seal which means that not all the oil is going thru the hole in the rod as it was designed to. the more oil that leaks past the seal the softer the damping becomes in both directions.

based on just the info you supplied it sounds to me like your damper rod seals are likely leaking.

2. if someone is maybe 185 or more i might use straight wound springs that calculate to a compressed rate that is around 15% heavier than the origs and increase the thickness of the oil by around 50%. i would also use low preload on heavier springs.

3. if one weighs this much or more AND has the forks on a reasonably heavier bike then they were designed for, then without knowing the difference in weight between the two vehicles, i would estimate going 20% heavier than stock on the springs and around 75% thicker on the oil providing it is around 20 weight oil or less.



without really knowing anything about your set up i would suggest first replacing the seals on the damper rods then using heavier oil using my estimates and if that is still too soft see what your compressed spring rate is then add air to the tubes until it quits bottoming then calculate exactly how much pressure in lbs that air adds to the "spring rate" then get a spring that calculates to the number of your compressed springs added to the number of the compressed air.

i weighed 155 when i tested a box stock 86 250r and i could bottom both front and rear reasonably easily but only under severe conditions.


NO WARRANTIES OR GUARANTEES EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED...Uh, oh.

[barnett468]

If anyone finds Barnett's EDIT button please PM it back to him

Based upon the info you supplied above I suggest you use 90 weight gear oil filled to the top of the tubes and 100 lb per inch springs with 3" of preload AND quit stuffin your face with pizza and beer.


Actually the fork tube engineers say it is better to run light oil like 15 wt or less as opposed to heavier oil. to do this in your case if it is still needed after replacing your damper rod seals you can simply weld up the damping holes in your damper rods and drill smaller ones.

[barnett468]

I'm 5'10"s and have 85/86 250R forks with progressives on my 86 350X. I was bottoming the front at Trikefest last year and changed 20wt to 30wt. Do you have another suggestion? Nowhere around here to test them.

Is there a gold valve for those shocks??

81 thru 85 atc250r

p/n FEGV3801 $169.00 front

p/n SMGV QR4001 REAR $169.00

http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/3/...TC250R/1981-85



86 250r

p/n smgv qr4002 rear $169.00

http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/3/Honda/ATC250R/1986

[El Camexican]

I think id like to just go with the rebuild for now.

Cool. As mentioned a few times in here you need to assess what is worn and needed to fix them. If the tubes are pitted, bent or dinged you’d be well served to start looking for a good used set, but if they are otherwise rebuildable you need to disassemble them and rebuild them using new bushings and seals. As mentioned already OEM is the way to go when it comes to these parts seals.

Do you know how to take the forks apart? If not I don’t recommend learning without someone who has done it before on-hand to guide you. You may also require a couple of tools that they don’t sell at Sears. When apart they need to be cleaned to perfection. That grey crud on everything is abrasive and must all be removed (it was formerly your fork components). Inspect the tubes for any imperfections. A low spot means a tiny bit of oil will escape each time the spot extends past the seal, but a high spot with a sharp edge means your new seal will be damaged almost immediately if you don’t smooth it out. Knock any high spots down with 2000 sandpaper. They don’t have to be perfect, but they can’t be sharp edged.

I don’t specifically know these forks, but there is usually a rubber wiper ring above the fork seal (the retainer is usually above it and often there is a washer too) that is meant to remove the crud off the fork tubes before the seal passes over the shaft. If your forks have them and you plan to reuse them make sure they are not torn and that they are clean on the inner diameter as this area is usually full of dirt.

Once the forks are rebuilt put a set of protective boots on them so the seals have a fair chance to last a while. Running them open like you have them in the photos looks cool, but it is not the best thing for the shafts and seals.

Springs: I don’t know what you weigh, but if it’s over 175# I’d look for a set of stiffer springs. Progressive sells a set (I have them in my Yamaha) for yours, but I don’t know what the rates are suited for. Given that it’s a 250R I’m guessing you have more than one aftermarket option. If you want to reuse your stock springs at least measure the free length against what the manual states it should be. It could be that a previous owner decide to cut them for some reason.

Oil: As far as weight is concerned I would not go more than 5 over whatever stock was. I’m no expert on the issue, but it has always been my understanding that the thinner the oil was the faster and more responsive the action of the forks is. Too thick and movements get sluggish so if Honda suggests 10 I wouldn’t go over 15. However, once you have the correct springs installed adding oil in small increments over and above what the manufacture suggests (AKA raising the level) is a well know way to minimize bottoming. I would not add more than 10mm (height) at a time and don’t overdo it as some tuners will tell you that if your suspension is set up properly for the way you ride you should bottom out (lightly) once per ride. That said they mean “Once per ride the way YOU ride. If you like to trail ride you don’t want the same set-up as the guy that spends ½ his time in the air. If you do ride aggressively I suggest you do some reading on MX suspension set-up. At the very least you will be able to make informed decisions about your suspension investments.

Tire Rubbing: As stated the condition of your forks is not helping this, but in theory your trike should be able to bottom out the forks without the tire rubbing the fender, so here are some things to check for while you’re working on the forks. Make sure that they aren’t raised up in the triple clamps too much, or that someone didn’t stick some shims under the fender mounts and change the angle. Is it an aftermarket fender? That alone could be the issue. Also, when they are apart check that no one put lowering blocks in the forks at some point, like perhaps some ice race. These are usually just small aluminum or steel tubes that fit between the dampening rod and the upper fork tube shortening the fork assembly. If there is something like that in there and it does not appear on the Honda drawing get rid of them. And finally make sure you don’t have an overly tall or over-inflated tire on the trike. Any of the above could be causing the problem.

Keep us posted on the rebuild!

Proud owner of an edit button since 2011

[Dirtcrasher]

81 thru 85 atc250r

p/n FEGV3801 $169.00 front

p/n SMGV QR4001 REAR $169.00

http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/3/...TC250R/1981-85



86 250r

p/n smgv qr4002 rear $169.00

http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/3/Honda/ATC250R/1986

Currently, you guessed it, I am a fat 220lbs. 2 weeks, 15 eclairs, 10 small carrot cakes and numerous bottles of beer with my bacon and feta pizza ago, I was 205lbs.

My rear linkage suspension does not bottom when I get big air. So that says to me it works fantastic

The front forks are NOS 85/86 250R and as I had said, I am bottoming the front end on that same type of jump. And as I said, I cannot test that here.

I did once wonder if the oil damping holes could be lowered, raised, or welded up and drilled smaller.

But unless I can get back in the 190lb range, maybe there is no option. I thought there was an emulator or gold valve available for these shocks.

Obviously, I can just call a few suspension shops, but I wanted your input. That is all, PSHHHHT, eclair out........

[barnett468]

Currently, you guessed it, I am a fat 220lbs. 2 weeks, 15 eclairs, 10 small carrot cakes and numerous bottles of beer with my bacon and feta pizza, I was 205lbs.

Actually sounds like it was worth it to me.

My rear linkage suspension does not bottom when I get big air. So that says to me it works fantastic

it might even be a bit overly stiff. the stiffer the rear is the more it will drive the forks into the bumps causing them to feel stiff. obviously the forks sound too soft irregardless but if you soften the rear a little it will improve the front at least a little guaranteed.

The front forks are NOS 85/86 250R and as I had said, I am bottoming the front end on that same type of jump. And as I said, I cannot test that here.

so are you saying your forks are brand new with virtually no hours on them. the tunes, lowers AND damper rods?

if this is the case then your damper rod seals are obviously not worn out.

I did once wonder if the oil damping holes could be lowered, raised, or welded up and drilled smaller.

well, as i mentioned they can positively be welded and redrilled. as far as raising, lowering this would be bad. as far as adding more holes above the existing compression holes and below the rebound holes well this is a different kettle of fish that won't help your particular problem.

But unless I can get back in the 190lb range, maybe there is no option. I thought there was an emulator or gold valve available for these shocks.

well they list one for 85 but not 86, just call them, their number is in the link i posted.

Obviously, I can just call a few suspension shops, but I wanted your input.

no prob, always happy to give out free bad information. You can also pm me if you want. i'll be on the site daily for a week or so.

If there is no gold valve and you do call a suspension shop they will give you the same info if they know what they are doing because the suggestions are the only way yto approach the prob. its really basic, no rocket scientist stuff here.

PSHHHHT, eclair out........

Man I was just about to eat.

I'm 5'10"s and have 85/86 250R forks with progressives on my 86 350X. I was bottoming the front at Trikefest last year and changed 20wt to 30wt. Do you have another suggestion? Nowhere around here to test them.

Did you test them on a big jump with the 30 in it?

if so did it still bottom?

was it bottoming really hard with the 20? if not then the 30 shoulkd stop it. that is a big change.

i don't know what the std honda spring is and since your current spring is progressive would it is impossible to calculate the compressed rate but the spring mfg can however it might be difficult to contact them.

one suggestion i have is one i already mentioned which is to add air to the forks.

if yoiu have 30 weight and it bottoms a little try 5 lbs, if it bottoms hard try 15 lbs, use a low pressure tire gauge. you will loose about 2 lbs when you remove it so if it says 10 then you will really only have 8 once it is removed.

since you already have springs you can get a kit to join the tubes so you only have 1 air fitting. this keeps the air exactly equal in both tubes no matter how much you loose when removing the gauge. if you leak the air get a leak and loose the air you will still have springs so your forks won;t collapse.

i use a small 4 gallon portable air tank.

[Fox250R]

I was considering
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Works-QuadSt...0054b9&vxp=mtr


I was wondering if this would be the best way to go. Have any of you bought from this guy yet?

Or should I just rebuild my shock?

Money really isn't an issue so I don't mind paying a little extra..

I could do some of the work myself but i'd much rather just take it somewhere and get it all done at once...Just don't think I can find a place like that here in Oregon.

[Fox250R]

just wondering if the price for this shock sounds about right.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Works-QuadSt...item5d310054b9

[Fox250R]

OK I guess its this one now

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Works-QuadSt...8e258a&vxp=mtr

[El Camexican]

That shock with the reservoir is a middle of the road shock at best (I have one and wish I didn’t) and the gas emulsion shock you were looking earlier at is an econo-shock at best, shocks like that have no place on an ATV. A rebuilt stocker with the correct spring is likely better than either of these two as the one with the reservoir does not appear to have damping or rebound adjustment.

If you have the money consider an Elka, Fox or even the Works ULTRAX. There has to be other options out there for a 250R as well, just make sure you pick one with a reservoir, damping and rebound adjustment and the correct spring for your riding weight.

[Fox250R]

That shock with the reservoir is a middle of the road shock at best (I have one and wish I didn’t) and the gas emulsion shock you were looking earlier at is an econo-shock at best, shocks like that have no place on an ATV. A rebuilt stocker with the correct spring is likely better than either of these two as the one with the reservoir does not appear to have damping or rebound adjustment.

If you have the money consider an Elka, Fox or even the Works ULTRAX. There has to be other options out there for a 250R as well, just make sure you pick one with a reservoir, damping and rebound adjustment and the correct spring for your riding weight.

Well CRAP! I almost bought this today.. Not sure what to do do now.